Savage Love Podcast Comments

 

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1
Tuesday, 10/9, is the last day to register to vote in Florida and Ohio.

Dan, if you one more time say out loud on the podcast that women have nothing but butterflycandletard sex ideas whereas men's sex ideas are a porny circus of murderplay awesomeness, then... then I will get irritated again. I can't believe how many stupid cliches you managed to cram into that single answer to the vanilla woman's vanilla response to her vanilla husband’s vanilla notions that he got off the TV. Have you actually SEEN Dexter? Dexter is stupid in EXACTLY the same way 50 Shades of Gray is stupid. Those things are stupid in exactly the same way everybody's "hot erotic times = rosepetal-path-to-canopy-bed + shitload of candles everywhere" sex recipes are stupid. Why are women's bullshit ideas they got off the TV MORE bullshit than men's bullshit ideas they got off the TV? HUH? All sex ideas in the contemporary world are bullshit sex ideas because they all came from the same dumb marketplace of dumb. Dexter is a dumb show; you can't write a relationship drama about a psychopath because a psychopath can't care about relationships in the way a character has to care about relationships to make a relationship drama work. And you can't sell a show to TV that ISN'T a relationship drama. All shows must work in exactly the same rote stupid way. All TV is reductive and stupid and all sex ideas based on TV are reductive and stupid. Equally stupid. Stupid without sex bias. Stupid without gender bias. Equal opportunity stupid. Just stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid. Stupid all day.

The cure for lame, tepid sex ideas is not munching with TES. The interesting sex ideas to come out of our culture will not come from collaborative effort. Did William Seward Burroughs attend munches? No. He sat alone in his room and listened to the still, quiet voice in his heart that said, “What about a mugwump?”

Tuesday, 10/9, is the last day to register to vote in Florida and Ohio.
More...
Posted by cousine on October 9, 2012 at 9:25 AM · Report this
2
Dan! Why did you assume that the woman's impression that this guy was never physically abusive or not "really" abusive was true? Her proof that he wasn't physically or sexually abusive was "I don't really know the details" and "I don't think so," which sounds like BS to me. Of course she doesn't want to think he's abusive, cause she wants to fuck him! She has no information to conflict with this opinion cause she has no information! Unlike the controlling thing, this guy isn't going to post on OKCupid about how one of his hobbies is beating his girlfriends.

Seems like it might be wise to go to her friend and say, hey what did you mean by abusive? And get some details. The fact that it happened five years ago makes it more likely that he's changed from whatever was going on then, but seems like you went to assuming that her friend was exaggerating when she claimed abuse pretty freaking fast there, Dan.
Posted by Allek on October 9, 2012 at 9:32 AM · Report this
3
Wow, tearjerker Tuesday. I'm sitting here weeping - lots of pain today.
Posted by agony on October 9, 2012 at 9:34 AM · Report this
4
Had to say more - last caller, if you check in here... I'm a widow, my husband died after 19 years of marriage.

You think you won't feel joy again, but you will. It takes a while, but it does happen - you don't forget, but you learn ways to go on. If you can't face the thought of speaking to someone in person, please please at least try an online group - widownet.org is a place to start, if you like. And yes, you qualify - nobody is going to say that your pain isn't 'worthy' because you weren't married yet. You loved and were committed and that's plenty.
Posted by agony on October 9, 2012 at 9:44 AM · Report this
5
Oh, that last call was absolutely heartbreaking. I am so sorry for your loss, caller.

Also, @1: Rock ON. Well said.
Posted by dchari on October 9, 2012 at 10:29 AM · Report this
Wax66 6
That last call was so heartbreaking. You could hear the love and pain in her voice. Thank you, Dan, for being willing to tackle such an incredibly difficult call. My heart goes out to her, and I hope we all get to hear back from her and that she's making it through the day-to-day.
Posted by Wax66 on October 9, 2012 at 12:51 PM · Report this
7
@1. Wow, you're a happy person, aren't you?

Oh wait.

That was SARCASM.

I agree that's the whole, "Men think like this, women think like this!" thing is bullshit, but jesus fucking christ, you don't have to poo-poo the entirety of society and every single sexual trope out there as "stupid". Get off your high horse! You live in 2012, people have tvs. Deal with it.
Posted by meep on October 9, 2012 at 2:08 PM · Report this
8
My heart sunk when I heard the last call. I tragically lost my first love, high school sweetheart, and the best friend I've ever had 11 years ago. I'll be honest, it doesn't get easier. But I wouldn't trade it for anything. A life of grief was worth knowing him, loving him, and being loved by him. Nothing, not even death, can take that away. If there were words I could say to relieve you of your grief, I would. But know this, you are not alone. Your fiance lives on in your love for him. To quote ee cummings, "i carry your heart with me(i carry it in my heart)" He was lucky to have you in his life. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Posted by jayhawk on October 9, 2012 at 2:09 PM · Report this
Auragasm 9
If my husband came out and said he wanted to tie me up and kidnap me, I'd be BEYOND game. That shit sounds adventurous.
Bloodlust on the other hand? Now I'm curious as to how to safely explore that. Def not my thing, but interesting.

I had a friend call sobbing after her boyfriend (who I'd never met) died in a car accident. I completely blew it tyring to console her. Nicely done, Dan, your words were very sober, yet hopeful.
Posted by Auragasm on October 9, 2012 at 2:10 PM · Report this
10
The first two calls pissed me off. Sometimes Dan is too patient.

@ 1 he covered a whole range before starting to answer so STFU. But yeah few women fantasize about fucking under the stars, except for those on TV
Posted by fahima on October 9, 2012 at 3:52 PM · Report this
11
My heart goes out to you, last caller. Your call brought tears to my eyes. Like Dan said, even though it seems like it could never get easier, it will.
Posted by dinosox on October 9, 2012 at 4:22 PM · Report this
12
Was it just me, or did anyone else think that maybe the first caller's husband was having her on? She kept after him and after him "C'mon, you've gotta have a secret fantasy, don't tell me you don't, tell me tell me tell me" so he just thought up some crazy shit to freak her out and make her leave him alone?
Posted by agony on October 9, 2012 at 4:26 PM · Report this
13
Not everyone is entirely gay or entirely straight, Dan. Why is the musical theatre kid necessarily lying about the girlfriend? It's entirely possible to have a fulfilling relationship with a woman AND be attracted to a man. I notice that your answers to questions like these tend to ignore bisexuals.
Posted by morgana on October 9, 2012 at 4:39 PM · Report this
14
I like what #7 and what #12 typed. I was laughing so hard when I heard the married women of 4 years talking about her husband opening up about his kinks. And yeah #12 if he was "taking the piss out of her" that is manipulative but funny. I thought I had "darkish" fantasies about my spouse, but evidently not by comparison.
Posted by scorpio of Id. on October 9, 2012 at 4:51 PM · Report this
Confluence 15
Dan, occasionally you show yourself to have a lot of class - sensitivity, maturity, and humanity. Today was one of those days. Your response to the woman's fiancé who died was simply.. beautiful. When I heard the woman's call, immediately, I felt as if I were punched in the stomach. Her voice was drenched in pain. And you responded to her with pure compassion and love. Thank you on behalf of her, and on behalf of anyone and everyone who's ever grieved the loss of a loved one (which is us all).
Posted by Confluence on October 9, 2012 at 6:36 PM · Report this
16
Dan, you bastard! I listen to this on the way to work. Now all my coworkers are going to think my wonderful fiance is a jerk because I'm a teary mess.

I download the podcast through the Podtoid app so I don't read the text description before listening. Blindsided by sadness on the way to work is not how I hoped to start my day. A little audio warning would be appreciated next time.
Posted by gnomestress on October 10, 2012 at 7:14 AM · Report this
17
Gnomestress: you are not the only person on this planet. This podcast is not about you and you do not deserve an audio warning. This show is meant for adults who appreciate adult feelings, without the mandatory warning labels that Americans seem bent on placing on everything on this planet for fear of reacting honestly and spontaneously to something that has not been reduced the level of pablum. You don't get warning labels on tragedy. Your boasting of your "wonderful fiance" while addressing a woman whose live is in ruins from her loss and then whining that YOU are not capable of handling her pain, was ugly and selfish on a level that is staggering to behold.
Posted by Unregistered Commenter on October 10, 2012 at 3:22 PM · Report this
MelbourneGal 18
Hi Dan. I agree with #15 completely and utterly. I was winded by the callers pain. Your response was beautiful. Really touching. Thank you. If you ever find out who she is, tell her there is a bedroom for her anytime she likes in Melbourne. We don't have a fancy house, but we live on the magical Mornington Peninsula - and if she would like to experience an Aussie summer by gorgeous beaches, and get away from things for a while, we would love to have her. Kate xx
Posted by MelbourneGal on October 11, 2012 at 12:08 AM · Report this
19
I only wish that the young woman in graduate school who consulted DP about being deliberately and inaccurately called her just-died gay roommate/best friend's fiancee in the family-penned obituary had consulted Mr Savage instead. I hope that somehow that letter finds its way over here. The advice given, to attend the funeral and act like his fiancee while claiming to be unable to discuss the situation, is absolutely shocking. I have heard that there was an amendment posted on Facebook, advising that the mistake be corrected, which would bring the column more or less into line with the majority of comments. Most comments advising such a middle course leave more wiggle room in the line they advocate than I think some of them realize for people to assume that calling the relationship an engagement was simply a stretch of truth rather than a falsehood. The intellectual exercise lies in picking out which posters are c/overtly anti-gay and actively want the libel to appear as only a stretched truth, which posters aren't anti-gay but think that leaving enough room for those who want to believe a romantic relationship plausible to do so would be the most respectful course, and those who think incorrectly that their advised line is sufficient to close that door.
Posted by vennominon on October 11, 2012 at 7:46 AM · Report this
20
This was one of the best episodes to date. Some dear friends of mine are separated right now, and the wife is being a bitch, to be perfectly honest - dragging the poor man thru an emotional roller coaster. A group of mutual friends is banding together to stage an 'intervention' of sorts to her - either she grows up and works thru her marital problems like an adult, or she files for divorce.

But then, the next call...I'm glad nobody else was in the office (I was listening on headphones at my desk) - I was a teary mess. The raw emotion in that girl's voice...I wish I could give her a hug. I can't imagine going thru this, though I know it'll happen someday. :(
Posted by bhswmc01 on October 11, 2012 at 9:18 AM · Report this
21
@12: I certainly hope that was the case, because that woman is a piece of work. She digs and digs and digs to get at his fantasies (been asking this question for years), eventually accusing him of having something to hide, and when he finally opens up to her, what does she do? She feels betrayed and hurt that he didn't trust her to react well (is the irony obvious yet?), and immediately goes straight to making it all about her and how she can't possibly have measured up to the inside of his head. What a narcissist. Evidently he was right to keep this stuff to himself.

Lady, if he wanted that from you, then it was on him to ask you for it. If he didn't ask you for it, that means either:
a) it really was just idle fantasy, and he was content to leave it that way. (There is plenty of stuff that I see happen in porn that I would find appalling as a real life news item.)
b) he thought it was unreasonable. If he doesn't want to ask you to submit to being cut, it isn't your place to make him the bad guy for being what he thought was considerate.
c) he didn't think you would handle it well. So far, option C seems to be playing out.

Here's a clue: "Let me fucking be GGG for you, you withholding bastard" is a self-contradictory idea. If they are his fantasies, then he should be in control of how badly he wants to pursue them. It's your job to decide whether you are comfortable with the ones he would like to try out (and you don't have to be comfortable with it). It's not your job to dig them out of him with a shovel and then insist on running them to completion for him. Back the fuck off.
Posted by avast2006 on October 11, 2012 at 11:56 AM · Report this
22
To the man with the runaway wife, one thing to add. Dan talked a lot about what she is doing. You need to look at one particular thing that you are doing, which is that you have a very clear vision of how wonderful life would be if she would only try things your way, and you are stuck on it. It is time to realize that she does not WANT to try things your way. When you become absolutely clear that things aren't going to change, aren't going to get better, suddenly the clouds lift and you get complete clarity on yourself, your situation,and where you want to take yourself next.

You are dwelling in your vision of how wonderful things could be with this woman. The problem is, that's a fantasy. The reality of your situation has not been as wonderful as that for a very long time now. It's a beautiful fantasy, and I can completely understand how you would be attached to it, because things would indeed be wonderful if only your wife would see things your way. Unfortunately, she has made it clear that she doesn't see things your way, and does not intend to even try.

I hope you can let go of this vision of perfect life with this woman who is your wife in name only, but hasn't been that in all other respects for years. You deserve someone who loves you back just as much, just as deeply, just as intensely, as you are capable of loving her. You will get that in your life only after you let go of wanting this other thing that, I'm very sorry to say, just isn't going to happen.
Posted by avast2006 on October 11, 2012 at 12:51 PM · Report this
23
#23, your ire would be more justified if it weren't that an awful lot of men rely on their partners dragging what they want in life out of them and making it happen, so that they don't have to take responsibility for it.
Posted by misspiggy on October 12, 2012 at 12:04 AM · Report this
24
I'm feeling so sad for that young girl that lost her boyfriend last week. I don't think I have ever felt pain like this in my life. I hope she took your good advice Dan. I'm really rooting for this girl.
Posted by grasshopper on October 12, 2012 at 11:01 AM · Report this
25
@23: (no, really, 23. I assume you meant @21):

What's your point? I'm commenting on this specific couple. Talking in generalizations about what one gender tends to do or not do does not help these two people. Your comment basically says "This specific woman is justified in acting like a shit to her specific husband, because men in general are spineless weaklings about their fantasies."

My point still stands. It's not her job to go after his fantasies like a big game hunter, let alone get all pissy that he didn't offer them all up to her in a dessert dish the first time she asked. You and I agree on the main part of that point: namely, it shouldn't be her job to do that for him.

If he had been the one writing in, saying, "Gosh my wife seems so vanilla, I have all these dark fantasies, which I've never shared with her, but she with her vanilla sexuality just isn't doing it for me," then your point would apply, and I would be the first to agree with you in telling him "Hey stupid, it would really help for you to sack up and ask her." But that's not the case here. He isn't the one who's all bent out of shape.

If he is content that his fantasies stay inside his skull, that's his prerogative. They are his fantasies, not hers. Being his wife does not give her court-ordered full access to the private contents of his brain.
Posted by avast2006 on October 12, 2012 at 11:08 AM · Report this
26
Evidently the irony was still not obvious enough, so let me spell it out even more slowly and clearly:

Paraphrasing the woman with the privately kinky husband: "I feel hurt and betrayed that he didn't share all this very dark stuff with me. I'm reacting really badly to the implied insinuation that I would react really badly."

That rumbling noise you hear is the sound of foreheads hitting desktops repeatedly, across the nation.
Posted by avast2006 on October 12, 2012 at 11:25 AM · Report this
27
To the young lady you lost her boyfriend: I am so sorry to hear of your loss. Heartrending. My thoughts are with you. You will get through this. That is not to minimize your loss; it is beyond words to describe the pain. But you will get through it.

For now seek comfort in the love of friends and family. Find survivors resources as Dan suggests. Don't try to stuff it down; what you are feeling is real and true and authentic. It will flow through you, and eventually it will ebb away.

You will get through this.
Posted by avast2006 on October 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM · Report this
28
Dan, I am so pissed about your answer to the woman who wanted to fuck the fireman. In fact, after writing this comment, I'm washing my hands of you, your podcast and your column. You sided with the scumbag with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that he's merely an asshole and not abusive. So his OKCupid profile suggested he's just a jerk and not abusive? Are you kidding me? Abusers don't advertise in their OKC profile that they're abusers, or else no one would ever date one. Do you think that people who find themselves in relationships with abusers are stupid? Abusers bring on the abuse slowly; do you not know this? They're also really good at making their partners look like crazy irrational liars while they look like the poor decent guy being falsely accused.

You should believe the victims of abuse, always. Sure there is the occasional false accusation of abuse, but it is rare, and it's better to err on the side of believing victims. ALWAYS. I really can't believe how you fabricated excuses for this guy, like "she got dumped and was hurt about it so she had to call it abuse in her own mind to get through the dumping." How about, believe the woman who alleges abuse, Dan, you fucking asshole.

You also said that lobbing an accusation of abuse at a single guy in the dating scene is a serious thing to do, (BOO FUCKING HOO) and suggested that the woman doing it was deluded or a liar. Fuck you so much, Dan. This is why people don't come forward about abuse. People won't believe them, and will say "you're ruining that guy's reputation and now he'll never be able to date again." OH NO THE HOT ABUSIVE FIREMAN MAYBE WON
'T GET SOME PUSSY, time for every privileged male (gay or straight) to come out of the woodwork and defend him with no fucking evidence. This is how rape culture works. This is part of rape culture. Always give the guy every benefit of the doubt, always.

There is really something wrong with you for immediately taking this guy's side and calling the woman a liar. On behalf of all abused people, fuck you Dan. Believe victims.

Today I'm going to a march against rape culture and gender inequality, and I'll be thinking of you and your abuse-apology bullshit.
More...
Posted by ALLISOR on October 13, 2012 at 6:17 AM · Report this
29
I'm currently going through a loss and I wanted to thank you Dan for the compassionate advice you gave the callers who are trying to survive a loss.
I also wanted to recommend the following book to these callers: " How to Survive the Loss of a Love " by Peter McWilliams, Harold H. Bloomfield, Melba Colgrove. It has been very helpful to me.
Thank you for everything you do Dan. I hope you know the good you are doing.
Posted by Celine from Paris on October 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM · Report this
30
1) When I lost my mother, I discovered why people used to "dress in mourning." It told the world: I am a walking mass of pain, so please be gentle with me. I hope the world will be gentle with that caller.
2) Dan's quote from Queen Elizabeth, "Grief is the price we pay for love," and his incredibly eloquent response, "It is a price we should all pay willingly, because a life without love is a life of constant grief, and a life with love is a life with moments and seasons of grief." Thank you, Dan, for your wisdom.
3) As Dan finishes his answer, just in the last few words, a siren can be heard in the background. A poignant reminder of our mortality, and how everything can change in an instant.
Posted by Hell girl on October 13, 2012 at 11:20 AM · Report this
31
1) When I lost my mother, I discovered why people used to "dress in mourning." It told the world: I am a walking mass of pain, so please be gentle with me. I hope the world will be gentle with that caller.
2) Queen Elizabeth: "Grief is the price we pay for love." Dan's incredibly eloquent response: "It is a price we should all pay willingly, because a life without love is a life of constant grief, and a life with love is a life with moments and seasons of grief." Thank you for your wisdom.
3) As Dan finishes his answer, just in the last few words, a siren can be heard in the background. A poignant reminder of our own mortality, and how everything can change in an instant. Live now.
Posted by Hell girl on October 13, 2012 at 11:22 AM · Report this
32
I think the advice that the 18yr old theater camper got from Mr Rannells is spot on. One thing I wish I had heard from you, Dan, was acknowledgment that this crush's girlfriend could be real, and that his feelings for her could be real, because GASP! he's Bi. In that case, cheating on a girlfriend really is cheating on a girlfriend, not on a gf-spirit-animal.

When you're young (or not) and trying figure yourself out, it can be confusing and hard enough. Hearing you immediately jump to "he's got feelings for guys, therefore he's a gay closet case who's deluding himself with this gf-spirit-animal" implies it's impossible to like guys and girls simultaneously and it creates a subtly hostile environment for any guy who does, or who might otherwise identify as Bi.

I know you advocate all the time for bi people Dan, and I've heard you address this bi hostility phenomenon in past shows so I'm convinced it was unintentional. Just thought I should point it out.
Posted by Mouchi on October 14, 2012 at 12:32 PM · Report this
tiedinknots 33
Sending my sympathies to the woman caller who lost her fiancee... Dan's right that we all experience similar tragedies in our lives, but right now my heart goes out to you especially, poor dear. I was touched by your desperate sadness and grieve with you. May the depth of your sorrow be surpassed one-thousand fold by the love of family, friends and future intimates, when you are ready.
Posted by tiedinknots on October 14, 2012 at 8:36 PM · Report this
34
Who else is glad that Allisor is attending pointless rallies and spending her time raging on internet boards rather than doing whatever else it is that unmedicated cranks do?
Posted by Snowguy on October 15, 2012 at 12:19 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 35
to quote actor richard e grant about loss: "you don't get over it. you get around it."
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on October 15, 2012 at 6:27 PM · Report this
36
That call was crushingly sad. Thanks for the best advice Dan and let's hope she gets some help ASAP. Caller, you are not alone. Just step out and you will find what you need.
Posted by swade2569 on October 17, 2012 at 1:11 PM · Report this
37
Just another comment to say that I cried when I heard that last call because she sounded so desperate and in pain. I have no idea who you are but I sincerely wish you relief from this pain and the ability to see a little bit of light in the darkness. Thanks dan, for sharing it with us, and for responding to someone who so clearly needs as much love as possible
Posted by boobles on October 19, 2012 at 4:16 PM · Report this
38
@28 I, too, was shocked to hear Dan dismiss the friend's allegations of abuse out of hand. So much so that I stopped listening.

Dan, that was irresponsible. You might want to read the book "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft to get a better understanding of what you're talking about. You know, your advice may not be binding arbitration, but you are a person that many people listen to, so you may want to take the time to get informed so that you don't say idiotic things that can do actual damage to people - like supporting abusers' points of view and dismissing their victims experience.
Posted by lurkylurky on October 24, 2012 at 11:31 AM · Report this
Wiki 39
I`m so sorry for the one, who call last,
i had calls like that, they make me sad
Posted by Wiki http://www.sexlegetoej-wiki.dk on November 23, 2012 at 1:38 PM · Report this
40
To the last caller: I'm so sorry. I hope that you are surrounded by a solid support system of people who love you. When I was in college, my boyfriend committed suicide. I made a lot of bad decisions after that happened, and retreated from my social life and my family. Eventually, I ended up in a really emotionally abusive relationship. When you do feel strong enough to start dating again, beware of people who might take advantage of your vulnerable state. I think I walked away from the period of my life with more damage from my abusive ex than from my previous boyfriend's suicide. I should have surrounded myself with friends and family to help me through that. I hope you've been reading and listening to all the responses to your call. You're not alone.
Posted by rosemi on December 16, 2012 at 2:46 PM · Report this

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