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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 1
I'm going as a sexy feminist.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn on October 26, 2012 at 2:46 PM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 2
I'm going as a drone; works on the national and local levels!
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on October 26, 2012 at 2:50 PM · Report this
Not getting the point of telling women to put their tits away. Why are they so judgy?
Posted by EricaP on October 26, 2012 at 3:06 PM · Report this
venomlash 5
Wear pants but no shirt somewhere. When asked what you are, say "a premature ejaculator. I just came in my pants."
Classiness may now resume.
Posted by venomlash on October 26, 2012 at 3:06 PM · Report this
wisepunk 6
This video could be fixed with only a ball gag and a leather cross.
Posted by wisepunk on October 26, 2012 at 3:10 PM · Report this
biffp 7
Salt n' Peppa sure suck now.
Posted by biffp on October 26, 2012 at 3:13 PM · Report this
brandon 8
I'm a gay guy, so im a bit of an outsider commenting, but I don't have a problem with the "slutty..." costumes. If you want to dress slutty and get laid like a carpet for halloween, then I applaud you! But your motive needs to be genuine.

Now if you do it because you think thats what women need to do to recieve any postive attention at all, well that's just sad.
Posted by brandon on October 26, 2012 at 3:17 PM · Report this
As a gay guy, I continue to endorse the underpants and 2 accessories approach for the cute and fit among us.
Posted by Sean on October 26, 2012 at 3:27 PM · Report this
During Pride I don't tell gay men to not wear leather chaps with their ass out and I don't ask lesbians to cover their painted breasts so please let us heteros dress as slutty as we like on Halloween.
Posted by stuffandthings on October 26, 2012 at 4:09 PM · Report this
merry 11
As a tits-having person, I applaud this duo and their message!

"It's Halloween, not Hello Hard Weenie"


Damn right - Since when did it become mandatory for The Ladies to have to dress like hookers on Oct 31? I mean, sure, if they wanna... But there are many, many other ways to celebrate the 'Ween......
Posted by merry on October 26, 2012 at 4:15 PM · Report this
Why voluntarily cede the holiday? We could have gotten ENDA in exchange for Heterowe'en had the issue been played cleverly, and Mr Savage just gave it away for nothing! I hope this is not the start of what would be a very disturbing pattern, however plausible such might be.

Posted by vennominon on October 26, 2012 at 4:18 PM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 13
Thank you, @10. Who gives a shit what 3% of the population thinks about it?
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty on October 26, 2012 at 4:28 PM · Report this
so lesbians don't like seeing scantily clad women?
or is it just they don't want to see scantily clad LESBIANS?


myself I wish there were more slutty guy's costumes around town (at least if you attend the gym every one in awhile)
Posted by high and bi on October 26, 2012 at 4:42 PM · Report this
@14 Do you think that sometimes there is social pressure on young women to act like sluts even though that's not what they really want to do?
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 26, 2012 at 5:08 PM · Report this
@15 If there is, it's probably coming from other young women. Men aren't the only people who get competitive.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on October 26, 2012 at 5:59 PM · Report this
Also, having your tits out doesn't make a costume awesome. It's a fundamentally lazy approach to Halloween. Like, "Ooo, I dressed up as My Tits this year!" Just like every other year. Sorry, no dice. Get a real costume.
Posted by Thisbe on October 26, 2012 at 6:09 PM · Report this
doloresdaphne 18
Dan, I recall you being more positive towards the "straight pride" aspect of halloween, but maybe I'm out of touch.

But it has occurred to me that discouraging sluttiness from women at halloween could have unintended side effects (of straight women colonisng Pride)
Posted by doloresdaphne on October 26, 2012 at 6:53 PM · Report this
mr. herriman 19
I'm totally slutting it up for the first time ever this year. Not because I feel like I have to - if I felt that kind of pressure I would have started long before now. But I found a really cute costume that is also pretty skimpy and I just decided, "fuck it, let's do this."
Posted by mr. herriman on October 26, 2012 at 7:52 PM · Report this
BEG 20

It isn't the slut aspect, per se.

It's seeing little 10 year old girls in belly dancer costumes. Really? You couldn't think of anything else?

It's seeing 90% of women in costume in something sexualized. Really? Those are the only costumes you could think of?

That's the real issue. If it was really randomized, then some women would have sexualized costumes and (many more) wouldn't -- just because of possible distribution of types of costumes.

That's what I'm getting at. I don't think there's much of a choice these days -- take a look at any site that carries costumes for women and count up sexualized vs nonsexualized. Eesh.
Posted by BEG!/browneyedgirl65 on October 26, 2012 at 8:20 PM · Report this
seandr 21
I don't get it. Why do they care if other people dress sexy for Halloween? Are they Christians?
Posted by seandr on October 26, 2012 at 8:38 PM · Report this
mr. herriman 22
@BEG: precisely. Sexy is fine, but there should be more options for women who choose not to go that route, and sexy anything for kids is terrible. There were few options for my daughter when she was small, and now that she's older they're virtually non-existent if you are looking to buy off the rack or from a catalog. Historically the only way I could get something for myself that was not really trashy was to shop plus-size, (I'm on the margin), but then you're just SWIMMING in fabric. (Which, of course, is a whole 'nother aspect to this topic - that only the leanest among us are encouraged to dress sexily).
Posted by mr. herriman on October 26, 2012 at 8:41 PM · Report this
seandr 23
@20: You're saying that everyone else needs to stop being sexy so that you feel less pressure to do so?

Maybe you should worry a little less about what everyone else is doing and be happy with who you are.

P.S. I know, you can be a teletubby for Halloween!
Posted by seandr on October 26, 2012 at 8:53 PM · Report this
@16 What is that even supposed to mean? We live in a society that objectifies women's bodies. It isn't a "women are competitive" issue, it's an institutionalized sexism issue.
Posted by kersy on October 26, 2012 at 9:01 PM · Report this
@24 A human society that did not objectify women's bodies would not survive for very long. The process of making new humans usually starts with a guy noticing a women's lips or tits or whatever.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 26, 2012 at 9:28 PM · Report this
seandr 26
@24: We live in a society that is so afraid of sex that it equates sexual desire and attraction with "objectification". It isn't an institutionalized sexism issue, it's an institutionalized puritanism issue.
Posted by seandr on October 26, 2012 at 9:55 PM · Report this
@25 Sexual attraction =/ objectification. Seeing a woman as an OBJECT does not lead to procreation. It leads to dehumanization.

Also, you do realize that hetero women are attracted to men, right? and they succeed in fucking them w/o objectifying them?
Posted by kersy on October 26, 2012 at 9:56 PM · Report this
@26 Nope. Treating women as objects, removing their agency, and making their bodies public property for male consumption is anti-sex.
Posted by kersy on October 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM · Report this
@27 What's the difference between being sexually attracted to to someone based on how that person looks and 'objectification?'
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 26, 2012 at 10:03 PM · Report this
@28 Lots of women have fun wearing revealing cloths and teasing guys by flashing bits of their anatomy. I don't think that sort of behavior necessarily entails a removal of their agency.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 26, 2012 at 10:29 PM · Report this
Heteroween? Please.
Posted by SEANIEPANTS on October 27, 2012 at 12:10 AM · Report this
sissoucat 32
@seandr - from this outsider, I can tell you that no, American society is not afraid of sex. Sex from the male point of view, that is. Where the wife is respectable as long as she's clothed, and the hooker on the side is unclothed, but that's ok since she's a sub-human.

Hyper-sexualized female dressing is one side of the coin of catering to macho views of sex. The other side of the same coin, is head-to-toes cloth covered women. When women's only choice of dressing is either a whore or a virgin mary - that means that females are reduced to sex objects for the macho libido.

If most American males did dress up as sex workers too, it would look to the foreign eye as a harmless "let's all be sluts" time. But they don't, do they ?

@Erika. I think their message is "be aware that, like males, you don't *have to* show your tits, there are other great choices of dressing up that you could enjoy". Of course, I only get the meaning of half of the lyrics, so I could be mistaken.

Besides, surely it can't be for their own pleasure that American females tend to show so much skin at Halloween, in freezing temperatures ?
Posted by sissoucat on October 27, 2012 at 2:34 AM · Report this
Agreed BEG and I think brandon made a good point too. If you want to be a Sexy-whatever that's fine but is should be because that's want you want to be. Not because Sexy-whatever is the only option available or the only way you think you can attention.
Posted by msanonymous on October 27, 2012 at 5:13 AM · Report this
@29 (Ken Mehlman)-- The difference between being attracted to a person and objectification is that in the first, you're attracted to a *person*. In the second, not only are you thinking about the body parts, but you really don't care very much how the person attached to those body parts feels about it-- she's there for *your* pleasure, and as far as you're concerned, attracting you should be her major motivation in life.

The problem with "sexy Halloween costumes" is that on a day devoted to people exploring all the things they could possibly be, it *assumes* that a major thing women want to be is sexy. If I want to dress up as a zombie, it's probably because I want to play with ideas about death, scariness, infection, etc. If the option I'm given at the costume store is just "sexy zombie," then that assumes that the *most* interesting thing to me about the costume is that other people find it attractive, not what *I* might want to think about while I'm wearing it.
Posted by Gaudior on October 27, 2012 at 8:51 AM · Report this
Fistique 35
Listen, Ken Mehlmen, this is not the Seattle Times comment section. Slog is too sophisticated for this kind of "Hmm, if females don't make a bit of an effort, I won't be favoring their lady gardens with my babyseed and then the species will die out" kind of commentary. We all know the nature of the problem with Halloween:

1. Every year the costume racks present a grim parade of square sexuality, in which women are encouraged to bare as much skin as possible in the early stages of winter, in what is surely a plan to render them too cold to complain.

2. A lot of women, particularly young women, buy into the idea that their sex is their greatest value, to some degree at least.

3. With women's attention focused on the never-ending task of self-sexualizing, society is forced to rely mainly on the social and intellectual contributions of men, who as we know from commercials and sitcoms are too dull and flighty to cook a dinner, organize a surprise party, run a Fortune 500 company or the government of a nation, or clean an oven.

4. Hence, the current state of horrifying collapse we find ourselves in.
Posted by Fistique on October 27, 2012 at 9:42 AM · Report this
There are a lot of gay guys that love halloween, no? And all the kids love it. Why would dan be bitter about halloween?
Posted by Lady of Eagle Lake on October 27, 2012 at 9:50 AM · Report this
Ophian 37
Oh for fucks sake!

"Treating women as objects, removing their agency, and making their bodies public property for male consumption is anti-sex."

Sure, "making their bodies public property," would be pretty awful...but what? Who sent out that memo? Who is Making bodies public property? How come they didn't let me know?

We are not dealing with a crisis here. I'm pretty sure that women can walk out of their collective front door w/o being done up like a hooker on 10/31. The Immorality Police do not patrol the street on 'ween ,making sure that poor subjected women are provocatively clad, 'or else'...

Halloween is our culture's blow-off-steam holiday. Like Carnival/Mardi Gras, we can put on masks and take a little walk in other shoes, flirt with a little taboo. Women--and men--use that social pass to manifest their sexuality more publicly. That's what it's there for: one day where the usual rules don't hold.

"I don't think there's much of a choice these days -- take a look at any site that carries costumes for women and count up sexualized vs nonsexualized." Is Halloween crass and commercialized? Yes, but that is endemic. We are in the USoA. But there is no dark conspiracy forcing women to disrobe in public to please men. Nobody has to purchase and employ a 'slutty' costume. This is not Fancy Dress Obamacare. Put on a blue sweater and a fake beard and go as Cpt. Haddock if you want. Add some fishnets and heels and go as 'slutty' Cpt. Haddock if you want. Or--you know--don't.

"The problem with "sexy Halloween costumes" is that on a day devoted to people exploring all the things they could possibly be, it *assumes* that a major thing women want to be is sexy." Yeah, they do. A major thing that most people want is to be desirable to those they desire [seen a men's health magazine lately? I sure wish I had those abs]. But if that is not what you want, or is not attainable, manifest your choices and values otherwise, but let's not act as if human social mating behavior is something to be solved.

Posted by Ophian on October 27, 2012 at 9:51 AM · Report this
@35 "A lot of women, particularly young women, buy into the idea that their sex is their greatest value"

I agree that many women invest to much of their self-esteem in their sexual attractiveness. I think the lesson we can draw from this is that it is unhealthy to allow to much of your self-worth to depend on a single facet of your being. I don't think that there is anything wrong with girls enjoying the attention they get because of their physical beauty.

@32 There is a certain kind of guy who likes seeing tits and ass during spring break or whatever, but who talks trash about how "my daughter will never act like that because I'll raise her to have the right values." The best way to find out if a guy is this kind of asshole is to ask his position on gay marriage. A guy who would be OK with his grown son marrying another man would probably be OK with his grown daughter going topless at Mardi Gras.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM · Report this
seandr 39

Not sure I'm following you there. There are very few opportunities in the US for straight men and women to dress up sexy without being judged or facing some other negative social consequences. Burning Man is one of them, but not everyone can afford to take a week off to run around half naked in the middle of nowhere. The fact that Halloween provides another opportunity is a good and healthy thing. Bashing the sexy, whatever your misguided reasons, is the problem, not the solution.

FWIW - I'm dressing as a (hopefully sexy) leather daddy.
Posted by seandr on October 27, 2012 at 11:03 AM · Report this
fannerz 40
I'm going as Dr. Who. Yup, that my input here. Though I do predict that despite being dressed as a 900 year old man, my tits will be out by the end of the night. Thank you, alcohol!
Posted by fannerz on October 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM · Report this
I'll have my cleavage out if I want Dan, don't be hatin'
Posted by niko4ever on October 27, 2012 at 4:57 PM · Report this
First off, all the people saying Dan posting this video means Dan is hating the sexy straight people, just, no. Dan wrote a great essay recommending that straight people sex it up on Halloween:…

Here he is just presenting the other point of view.

Second, I'd buy their point more if they were emphasizing do-it-yourself and self-expression, rather than emphasizing "don't show your tits." This isn't career day. What's the fun in saying I'm going to be a nurse or a nun or a cop for Halloween?
Posted by EricaP on October 28, 2012 at 9:05 AM · Report this
Buttercup 44
Okay, I'll say it: that Louis CK costume was TOTALLY HOT.
Posted by Buttercup on October 28, 2012 at 2:28 PM · Report this
@45, if you're right and their point was that dressing up as a sexy nun is even more boring than dressing up as a nun... okay, but that went over my head. Do they also think that being the blue man group is boring (just not as boring as being the sexy blue man group)?

Come to think of it... the sexualized version of blue man group would actually be a great costume. Blue cleavage!
Posted by EricaP on October 28, 2012 at 11:49 PM · Report this
@46 Erica, as a mother aren't you the least bit worried that our hyper-sexual youth culture might pressure young people, and especially young women, into doing things they're not into and/or not ready for? Personally, I'm against slut-shaming, but I'm also against prude-shaming.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on October 29, 2012 at 10:46 AM · Report this
248, I want young people to think more about what they want, both immediately and in the longer-term. But I'm not going to tell them that they shouldn't want sex. Most adults want sex. It makes sense to me that post-pubescent teenagers would also want sex.

For me, the problem when people do things they're not into is that they haven't learned to stand up for themselves. So I teach my children to stand up for themselves and to pay attention to other people's signals, starting when they were very young. These are common phrases around our house:

"A game isn't fun unless both people want to play."

"When someone says stop, you stop, even if they're laughing." [ie, because of tickling]

"Offer hugs...but don't hug unless the other person responds."

"Don't just say 'stop it!' Be specific, name the action you want them to stop."

With that background, I hope they are empowered to figure out what they want and to communicate clearly when they're being pressured to do something they don't want.

I just feel that when cultures tell women that it's morally wrong to display their sexuality, that leads to people policing women's bodies, in ways which are not helpful to women, young or old. This video felt like that kind of policing. I'm for persuading young women to make creative costumes; I'm against telling them that only certain ways of being creative are acceptable.
Posted by EricaP on October 29, 2012 at 11:42 AM · Report this
debug 51
The video is cute (they're no Garfunkel and Oats) but not as silly as the hand wringing going on in this thread over what costume adult women choose to wear.

Maybe we can all agree that that Tim Gunn impression was pretty spot on?
Posted by debug on October 29, 2012 at 1:45 PM · Report this
#50, Oh please, "slut-shaming" has become the most overused term since hipster or bullying. In fact, by using this term, aren't you the one implying the sluttiness of the woman based on her outfit?

I could give a shit about the sex lives of other people. What I do have an opinion on is how people dress in public. I judge people based on their appearance all the time, especially if they are obviously dressed looking for attention for their outfits, from the Belltown douchebags, to the weirdos in kilts, to the guy who is way too old to be walking around in a skirt made out of rainbow handkerchiefs (sorry, guy, you look crazy). Most of us do. What you wear sends a message, and if you dress like a hooker and expect people to not react to the fact that you are out in public dressed like a hooker, then I don't know what to tell you. And no, I am not calling you a hooker or implying that you are a hooker in any way. All I know about you is that you are someone who feels hooker attire is appropriate to wear out in public. And I think it's tacky, just like all the other examples of tackiness I listed above.

I think it's the pro-sexy Halloween people who are the ones wringing their hands over the issue by assuming that because we state we don't want to see unneccessary public displays of uncreative, sexy boobie costumes AGAIN that we are somehow telling women what to wear and being slut shamers. No one is dictating anything to women here. But a lot of women have opinions on fashion, and this is some "fashion" that is fucking stupid and cliched.

Posted by virginia mason on October 29, 2012 at 5:19 PM · Report this
"assuming...that we are somehow telling women what to wear"

When they say: "Keep your tits in!" (around :55), they are, actually, telling women what to wear.
Posted by EricaP on October 29, 2012 at 7:14 PM · Report this
dirac 54
@52 Um, yeah, this is toes the line with what is defined as "slut-shaming" and this genre of outfits were called "slutty" way earlier than comment #50. And if people want to hypocritically use that term but turn around and do it, then they've fallen for the oppression that they're supposedly decrying.
Posted by dirac on October 29, 2012 at 9:10 PM · Report this
Acceptable positions in this debate:

1. I like sexy halloween costumes.
2. I dislike sexy halloween costumes.

Not-acceptable positions.
1. People must wear sexy halloween costumes
2. People must not wear sexy halloween costumes.

Posted by cpt. tim on October 30, 2012 at 4:14 PM · Report this
debug 56
Thanks @55.

I'd add the caveat that people can request people can request wearing/not wearing something only in video/song form and only if more funny than preachy.
Posted by debug on October 31, 2012 at 10:10 AM · Report this
I think if North American society were less willing to take a woman's display of her own sexual agency and/or own body as an excuse to say they "look/act like a hooker" (@52, I'm lookin' at you, kid) Halloween wouldn't be this eruptive slut parade (i mean slut in a positive way here), as women would feel more able to celebrate their bodies 365 days a year and not just on the one night it's generally considered acceptable. You would get a more interesting mix of ideas on Halloween and a relaxing of the sexy-as-priority... so long as permitting women this agency ALSO happened in a society where a woman's worth became less attached to her youth and commercial attractiveness.

Bodies can be celebrated without diminishing their inhabitants so long as people aren't made to feel that their body and attractiveness is not the most important contributor to their worth. We currently exist in a time and place where girls are both inundated with the message that being pretty/hot is basically the most important thing, AND that acting on sexual desire or exposing their bodies to receive sexual desire is whorish, or dimishishes them, or is anti-feminist, or crude. Neither of these things are true, and playing this Twister-game of expectations ties many of our girls in crazy knots.

It is in allowing for - and celebrating - the differences, variety, and vast list of possible attributes that make a person valuable in the world that we can find a solution here. Sexy? Awesome. Brainy? Rad. Caring? Excellent. Love your big tits? Prop 'em up and show 'em to the world. Prefer wearing an entire shirt and rocking a party with your wicked sense of humor? That's killer too. Fat hairy guy in a diaper dressed as Cupid shooting people with arrows all night? Hi-fuckin'-larious. Let's be permissive and celebratory here, shall we?

And @52, I think your desire to see people normalize their appearance in order to, I don't know, what exactly? Not look like "weirdos" or... "tacky"? To... you? Well, it's pretty damned backwards and repressive, I've gotta say.
Posted by PocketMouse on October 31, 2012 at 10:53 AM · Report this

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