Slog Comments
Jews: The Other White People
2
Thank you, Goldy. You're right. Every year at Passover, we're reminded that we were once prisoners in Egypt. Whether that's simply legend or not, the intellectual knowledge of several millenia of not being liked, to put it mildly, does affect most Jews. Romney couldn't understand that to many--possibly most--Jews, the current government in Israel is regarded no more highly than Bush's government was here, so waving the Israel flag as though that will get Jewish votes is counterproductive, to say the least.
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@3 I'm with you. I had a line about how offensive that "Judeo-" prefix is, but I cut it out, as it was kinda beside my point.
5
Don't forget that we are also instructed to "pursue" justice, not only for ourselves but for our neighbors.
6
I bet us athiests don't belong in their Romney camp either. They're really talking about white Christians.
7
I dislike the convention of refering to Jews as a race.
If I don't believe in God or Abraham, and think it was all made up, then there's no such thing as a descendant of Abraham and therefore no such thing as a Jewish race.
Right? I mean, that's where the idea of Jews as a race comes from, right? A decendant of Abraham? Or am I leaving something important out?
I know it's a completely lost cause on my part because as long as Jews think they're a race then that's what they're going to believe no matter what I feel. Still, I dislike it.
If I don't believe in God or Abraham, and think it was all made up, then there's no such thing as a descendant of Abraham and therefore no such thing as a Jewish race.
Right? I mean, that's where the idea of Jews as a race comes from, right? A decendant of Abraham? Or am I leaving something important out?
I know it's a completely lost cause on my part because as long as Jews think they're a race then that's what they're going to believe no matter what I feel. Still, I dislike it.
8
Now if only more of the American diaspora didn't have an explicit "Palestine exception" to tikkun olam.
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@7 We are an ethnicity as well as a religion. (Well, two ethnicities, really: Ashkenazi and Sephardic.) In the same way that Irish Catholics are both Irish and Catholic. It is both a religion and a culture.
10
I suspect that educational level correlates strongly with vote for the dems and that Jews have a higher educational level than average. Also, a higher percentage of urban dwellers. As we have seen cough-Israel-cough, empathy isn't necessarily a Jewish trait. Smugness? Maybe a little.
11
@7:
I don't feel like a race.
It's cultural (Goldy often says he's a "culinary" Jew, and I know exactly what he means). In fact, it's a number of cultural traditions; Ashkenazi like Goldy and me have a very different set of traditions than Sephardim. And there are other Jewish cultures as well.
I don't feel like a race.
It's cultural (Goldy often says he's a "culinary" Jew, and I know exactly what he means). In fact, it's a number of cultural traditions; Ashkenazi like Goldy and me have a very different set of traditions than Sephardim. And there are other Jewish cultures as well.
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@9 Despite the bullshit claims that various religions may have on the subject, no one is born belonging to a religion any more than they are born belonging to a political party. They are often, however, brainwashed at an early age.
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@9, Yeah, but I don't see catholocism as a race either.
Culture, yes, I can agree with that, because one can enter or exit a culture as one wishes. For example, even though I'm not deaf, I could immerse myself in the deaf community and identify with their culture. I could say I'm part of the deaf culture. But I couldn't say I'm deaf.
Race implies something you're born with that is unchangeable. I'll never be part of the black race, or asian race. I'll always be white. If I had any kids with a white woman, they'd always be white too. No matter what.
Catholocism's not a race, christianity's not a race, islam and muslim are not races, and judaism isn't a race (in my unprofessional opinion). Those are all cultures (and beliefs), but not races. Anyone can enter and exit them as they wish.
Irish isn't really a race so much as just the location someone was born. Like being a Mainer. Just because someone was born in Maine doesn't mean that's their race.
Culture, yes, I can agree with that, because one can enter or exit a culture as one wishes. For example, even though I'm not deaf, I could immerse myself in the deaf community and identify with their culture. I could say I'm part of the deaf culture. But I couldn't say I'm deaf.
Race implies something you're born with that is unchangeable. I'll never be part of the black race, or asian race. I'll always be white. If I had any kids with a white woman, they'd always be white too. No matter what.
Catholocism's not a race, christianity's not a race, islam and muslim are not races, and judaism isn't a race (in my unprofessional opinion). Those are all cultures (and beliefs), but not races. Anyone can enter and exit them as they wish.
Irish isn't really a race so much as just the location someone was born. Like being a Mainer. Just because someone was born in Maine doesn't mean that's their race.
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@14 There is a genetic component. Not all Jews have a Jewish gene, of course, but a majority do as I understand it.
17
The 'despite' is misplaced, asshole.
Many American Protestants are better friends of Israel than many Jews.
And Judeo-Christian is a cultural heritage; one many Jews have rejected.
Many American Protestants are better friends of Israel than many Jews.
And Judeo-Christian is a cultural heritage; one many Jews have rejected.
19
The way I heard it, the Klan and generic white Protestant bigots used to be as hostile to Jews and Catholics as to blacks. The phrase "Judeo-Xtian values" was supposed to get all the white conservatives together on the same team.
Which brings us to Newt Gingrich.
Which brings us to Newt Gingrich.
20
Goldy, there's the other side of the coin, which is that every bigot feels picked on. Self-pity, feelings of persecution, victimhood, these are all traits of the bigot. So while some people can rise above their past history of being persecuted, it is not a golden guarantee towards enlightenment.
22
It's times like these I feel a certain pride in my fellow American Jews. The Republicans made an overwrought, fear-based campaign for the Jewish vote this year, as if (A) American Jews only cared about Israel, (B) American Jews are primarily Likudniks, and (C) American Jews are stupid enough to believe that Barack Obama is steeped in an anti-Western jihadist world view.
I see Dems' continued strength with Jewish voters as a combination of (A) American Jews still identifying ourselves as a minority, as Goldy writes, and (B) what stinky writes @10: I suspect that educational level correlates strongly with vote for the dems and that Jews have a higher educational level than average. Also, a higher percentage of urban dwellers.
Does anyone have a link for how Obama did for whites with a college degree or a post-graduate degree? He may not have won that demographic, but I'm sure he did a lot better there than he did with non-college-degree whites.
I see Dems' continued strength with Jewish voters as a combination of (A) American Jews still identifying ourselves as a minority, as Goldy writes, and (B) what stinky writes @10: I suspect that educational level correlates strongly with vote for the dems and that Jews have a higher educational level than average. Also, a higher percentage of urban dwellers.
Does anyone have a link for how Obama did for whites with a college degree or a post-graduate degree? He may not have won that demographic, but I'm sure he did a lot better there than he did with non-college-degree whites.
23
Goldy: Of course, most Jews are technically white.
This reminds me. I just came across this page yesterday: 15 Black Celebrities Who Are Jewish.
This reminds me. I just came across this page yesterday: 15 Black Celebrities Who Are Jewish.
24
I would add that Jewish culture has traditionally placed a high value on rational and intellectual discourse, even within its religious institutions. That style doesn't really fit with today's Republican party.
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@5: Yeah, and it's repeated just to make it nice and clear. "Justice, justice, shall you pursue."
@7: We've been pretty insular in Europe, the Maghreb, and the Nile-to-Oxus region, partly because of our religion. We are, genetically, distinct from our Gentile neighbors. Not that we were racist about it, but most people in Europe didn't want their kids marrying Jews, and most Islamicate nations espoused a sort of immiscible multiculturalism that tolerated everybody but tried to keep them with their own kind.
@8: Word.
@17: Being a good friend includes having the courage to tell someone that they're making a bad choice, ya ding dong.
@7: We've been pretty insular in Europe, the Maghreb, and the Nile-to-Oxus region, partly because of our religion. We are, genetically, distinct from our Gentile neighbors. Not that we were racist about it, but most people in Europe didn't want their kids marrying Jews, and most Islamicate nations espoused a sort of immiscible multiculturalism that tolerated everybody but tried to keep them with their own kind.
@8: Word.
@17: Being a good friend includes having the courage to tell someone that they're making a bad choice, ya ding dong.
27
I was able to rationalize it, but I'm afraid that those vitriolic "Jewish Republican Coalition" ads triggered antisemitic reactions among simpler folks who thought they were representing views of majority of Jewish people. I hope statistics like those from current post will help to clear their minds.
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@26: Nah bro, I'm pretty sure it's because of all the assholes acting like we're superior to all other human beings.
30
If Romney had won, you'd have been a gentile. To Mormons, all non-Mormons are gentiles. It might have been kind of fun for you to have been a gentile for awhile.
31
It would be pretty shocking if more than 30% of American Jews had voted to live under a Romney regime. I assume most people who voted for Obama would rather have civil rights for most or all, rather than rights for a few. In other words, we were voting partly out of self-interest, whatever ethnicity we "technically" belong to.
32
We have always been the minority everybody loves to hate. We are ” other” alright, but we do not get our own box to check or benefit from any affirmative action. I always hate to check the ” white” box.
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@31
Obama in not a proponent of civil rights, not at all what so ever. He is an authoritarian centrist who's anti free speech, anti fair trial, anti gun and killing American citizens in direct conflict with the bill of rights.
Ironically he is perhaps the worst president we have ever had when it comes to civil rights.
Obama in not a proponent of civil rights, not at all what so ever. He is an authoritarian centrist who's anti free speech, anti fair trial, anti gun and killing American citizens in direct conflict with the bill of rights.
Ironically he is perhaps the worst president we have ever had when it comes to civil rights.
34
You can be ethnically aware without being xenophobic. Learn to love your neighbors, be they white or African-American. This article is self-indulgent, showing the liberal mindset, that special Jewish version. You may not accept it, but many white Christians really like Jews. Try being more open-minded. If you look for anti-Jewish sentiment you can find it everywhere, in all communities. Jews are a very defamed group and always have been.
You clearly care a lot about being Jewish, but you are posturing and acting out. Can you say you actually can truly relate to black people as fellow humans or are they a symbol for yourself of the "other", and you want to be close to that? You don't need outside groups to help define what you are and what you are not, what is outside, what is establishment. If you know who you really are as a Jew then you have all the information and self-awareness that you need, but you are not there yet.
Instead of being defensive and trying to find fault with what I have written, try to understand what it means.
You clearly care a lot about being Jewish, but you are posturing and acting out. Can you say you actually can truly relate to black people as fellow humans or are they a symbol for yourself of the "other", and you want to be close to that? You don't need outside groups to help define what you are and what you are not, what is outside, what is establishment. If you know who you really are as a Jew then you have all the information and self-awareness that you need, but you are not there yet.
Instead of being defensive and trying to find fault with what I have written, try to understand what it means.
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