Slog Comments
The End of the Filibuster?
14
until we get rid of the filibuster, the rich minority will still control things, hold us hostage, set the stage, and make a center right stance by obama/dems appear "progressive."
the dems and obama's failure to message this antifilibuster thing, to push it, to bring it up, to make the GOP defend minority party rule, is telling. by not even focusing national attention on this the dems let the gop say, falsely, "obama's plans didn't even work" when anyone knows "obama's plans" for the economy were shaped to get the one or two gop votes needed to deal with the senate. IOW obama has not owned the slow economic growth becasue the gop shared control. but few of the public realize this.
you want real change, you need to end the filibuster. and yes, if the gop wins a simple majority, they should get to make the laws based on that simple majority too. majority rule. not minority rule. this is democracy.
the dems and obama's failure to message this antifilibuster thing, to push it, to bring it up, to make the GOP defend minority party rule, is telling. by not even focusing national attention on this the dems let the gop say, falsely, "obama's plans didn't even work" when anyone knows "obama's plans" for the economy were shaped to get the one or two gop votes needed to deal with the senate. IOW obama has not owned the slow economic growth becasue the gop shared control. but few of the public realize this.
you want real change, you need to end the filibuster. and yes, if the gop wins a simple majority, they should get to make the laws based on that simple majority too. majority rule. not minority rule. this is democracy.
13
Neither party has much of moral leg to stand on re: the filibuster. It does seem like it's anti-process and shouldn't be part of procedure.
12
I think that to a limited (and I mean LIMITED way) the filibuster can serve a useful purpose in only the rare, once in 15 or 20 years circumstance.
But impertinent children in the GOP have abused it to the point the filibuster to become totalitarian in it's use. It needs to go
But impertinent children in the GOP have abused it to the point the filibuster to become totalitarian in it's use. It needs to go
11
@7
Yes, we might indeed want to step back and remember that the purpose of the overall structure of the US government itself is to stymie the majority.
The reasons for designing it that way were questionable (a fear of ochlocracy was in vogue, as you note), but subsequent history has certainly shown us that populism can be very, very ugly, at times.
I'm not sure the Senate is quite as shitty as you make it out to be; it certainly doesn't look any worse than the house, and it hasn't been nearly as bad as the executive branch for long stretches during the last 45 years.
Yes, we might indeed want to step back and remember that the purpose of the overall structure of the US government itself is to stymie the majority.
The reasons for designing it that way were questionable (a fear of ochlocracy was in vogue, as you note), but subsequent history has certainly shown us that populism can be very, very ugly, at times.
I'm not sure the Senate is quite as shitty as you make it out to be; it certainly doesn't look any worse than the house, and it hasn't been nearly as bad as the executive branch for long stretches during the last 45 years.
10
The filibuster may have its place (and I'm not convinced of that), but if it does have a place, it is a place for the righteously motivated Senator who is prepared to read names from a telephone directory for hours on end, not for a bunch of lazy shits who refuse to take a stand unless there are 60 solid votes.
8
I'm actually surprised that the Republicans haven't approached Angus King. You would think, considering the drubbing they got in the elections, that they would be trying to do whatever they could to shore up their voting numbers in the Senate.
7
The whole purpose of the filibuster is to stymie the majority; in fact, the whole purpose of the Senate is to stymie the majority. Remember, it wasn't even an elective body, originally; Senators used to be picked by state legislatures. The Founding Fathers were very suspicious of democratic majorities, which they tended to call "mobs". But in actuality the filibuster has always been the last bulwark against progressivism and decency. The Senate itself hasn't really been a place where important things happened since Lyndon Johnson ran it, and even then he was only able to do so by using his exceptional energy to end-run around the dinosaurs. The Senate hasn't been a live body since the 1850s, except maybe for Roosevelt's "Hundred Days" -- and again the energy was coming from elsewhere.
There is no element of government today more hidebound, more sterile, dusty and useless and yet ridiculously pompous. Maybe that can change. Maybe the Senate can become something not embarrassing. I hope so.
There is no element of government today more hidebound, more sterile, dusty and useless and yet ridiculously pompous. Maybe that can change. Maybe the Senate can become something not embarrassing. I hope so.
6
@1: What, the House isn't rigged? Come on, it's been gerrymandered to Sheol and back. I hear that more votes were cast for Democratic candidates than Republican ones in the House races, belying the GOP's control over the House.
4
Sure, when it's actually a Jimmy Stewart saga of reading the dictionary for twelve hours straight. A procedural filibuster is nothing other than obstructionism. And nothing will be stopping the Republicans from pulling a Strom Thurmond every time the Democrats try to raise taxes if the procedural filibuster is done away with.
But they're romantic, in a Cato the Younger sort of way
Sure, when it's actually a Jimmy Stewart saga of reading the dictionary for twelve hours straight. A procedural filibuster is nothing other than obstructionism. And nothing will be stopping the Republicans from pulling a Strom Thurmond every time the Democrats try to raise taxes if the procedural filibuster is done away with.
3
Now if only we could get rid of gerrymandering.
Think of all those poor Gerrys mandering away in their mom's basements, which are now flooded.
Think of all those poor Gerrys mandering away in their mom's basements, which are now flooded.
1
The House, the only really democratically representative organ of the US Government, eliminated the filibuster in 1842. Why not the Senate?
Actually, if you truly want majority rule, we should have the House of Representatives make all the decisions because only they represent the true make up of the population.
The Senate, Presidency and Judicial system are all rigged.
Actually, if you truly want majority rule, we should have the House of Representatives make all the decisions because only they represent the true make up of the population.
The Senate, Presidency and Judicial system are all rigged.
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