Slog Comments
Conservatives Ask Obama Nicely to Please Let Them Secede
7
Cut them off. They're welfare states that take more from the fed than they pay in. The federal government redistributes wealth from the north to support these states full of people who sleep 'til noon.
8
Let's start a petition to put Obama's face on our five dollar bills. That would drive them totally insane.
9
Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
...oh...and security will check you pockets for silverware.
...oh...and security will check you pockets for silverware.
12
As a Louisiana resident, I've often thought that, in 1861, I would have been a Northern sympathizer. Now, in 2012, I am a Nortnern sympathizer.
Plus ca change....
Plus ca change....
13
Uhhhh, aren't Colorado and New York also on this list??? They don't have 25,000 signatures combined from ALL the petitions yet. Ignore the racists assholes and they will go away. Why give this ANY coverage, it is a non event. Cannabis petitions got to 25,000 in a few hours and those petitions are totally ignored... this is the same, except ludicrous in the first place...
14
Have fun renegotiating those oil leases with the leverage of a third-world nation lacking an army or navy.
15
Until the first natural disaster hits, and then they come running right back to the federal money spigot, lips plumped and ready to suck from the government teat just like they always do.
Rank hypocrisy.
Rank hypocrisy.
16
@ 7 is onto something. Let them go and see how they fare. Laugh in their faces when they provoke Mexico into mining their ports and they come crawling to the US to intercede.
17
A funny read: Better Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto for Southern Secession. Highly recommended.
http://www.amazon.com/Better-Off-Without…
http://www.amazon.com/Better-Off-Without…
18
Just read the OR petition out of morbid curiosity. There there be grammatical atrocities!
With the Federal Govenrment increasing it's size much larger than our Founding Father's intended, and it's abuse of power trumping over the rights of State constitutions, and the forcing of unconstitutional laws over it's own citizens, the people of Oregon would like the chance to vote on leaving the Union immediately.
19
I am a progressive liberal(a Marxist, in fact) from Alabama. Thank you all for offering to kill me because of a few dumbasses that live in proximity to me and the millions of other Southerners like me. Sounds nothing at all like what the Southern bigots say about the North.
21
So, nobody here takes to heart the refrain from Obama's speech Tuesday night (and in 2004) that we're not the red states and blue states, but the United States of America? Secessionist-minded Fox News viewers in a pet are tiresome enough, but seeing liberals who like to think themselves enlightened salivate at the idea of the destruction of the Union and the disenfranchisement of fellow citizens makes me ill. I resented the living hell out of it when Republicans were in power and they said that people who didn't like it could leave; that attitude is no more attractive when it's trotted out be Democrats. Reveling in the idea that there's an "us" and a "them" is beneath any American, and gets in the way of our ability to come together as a nation to to solve our problems.
I know I probably sound like Pollyanna here, but I'm sick to fucking death of people in this country wallowing in divisiveness. In a democracy (or, more accurately, a democratic republic), sometimes your guy wins, and sometimes he loses. In victory, be a gracious winner and extend a hand to your vanquished foe. In defeat, suck it up and find a way to work with the other guy. And the other guy acting like an ass isn't a license to sink to his level; it's an opportunity to rise above.
I know I probably sound like Pollyanna here, but I'm sick to fucking death of people in this country wallowing in divisiveness. In a democracy (or, more accurately, a democratic republic), sometimes your guy wins, and sometimes he loses. In victory, be a gracious winner and extend a hand to your vanquished foe. In defeat, suck it up and find a way to work with the other guy. And the other guy acting like an ass isn't a license to sink to his level; it's an opportunity to rise above.
24
It's not the states that actually filed these petitions, but individuals. The petition for secession only requires 25,000 signatures, which is a small fraction of the wing nuts in existence.
26
@21, Exactly what @23 said.
The thing is, if these idiot states decided to secede, I hope we just let them go. I am not willing to lose my life or the life of friends and family over a civil war to keep this union together.
The thing is, if these idiot states decided to secede, I hope we just let them go. I am not willing to lose my life or the life of friends and family over a civil war to keep this union together.
27
I, too, have thought we're better off w/o them. Except it's not so simple. Yes, their economy would go to the shitter. The conditions would be like Haiti. Conversely, the US economy would pick up. Having that great disparity along a shared border would be precisely the nightmare of immigration the conservatives imagine is going on across the Mexican border. Hundreds of thousands of refugees would be pouring over an unsecure border, creating havoc.
If we let them drown, they would take us down w/ them. Naw. As ignorant and backwards as they are, Lincoln was right, United we Stand, Divided we fall.
If we let them drown, they would take us down w/ them. Naw. As ignorant and backwards as they are, Lincoln was right, United we Stand, Divided we fall.
29
@19 - If Alabama secedes, I'm sure there'll be amnesty for those wishing to cross the new border and remain loyal to the US. Remember, it's your people who shoot folks crossing the border, not mine.
30
@21: I am not finding it funny because I desire such a division, but because it is completely hilarious how stupid you would have to be to think that this is feasible, or desirable.
Anyone with half a brain knows that without federal funding, people in those states would either have to be taxed to death, or deal with not having roads maintained, not having trash picked up, and not even being able to afford power or gasoline (for long). More or less they would become third world "countries." Furthermore, if Texas seceded, it would be owned by Mexican drug cartels within a week. The fact that those states truly are the states on federal welfare, the irony is simply delicious.
It is this massive ignorance that tickles me. Not because I want to south to secede, but because the people who actually seem to want it are so incredibly stupid. I imagine this is why most of the people here also find it humorous.
Anyone with half a brain knows that without federal funding, people in those states would either have to be taxed to death, or deal with not having roads maintained, not having trash picked up, and not even being able to afford power or gasoline (for long). More or less they would become third world "countries." Furthermore, if Texas seceded, it would be owned by Mexican drug cartels within a week. The fact that those states truly are the states on federal welfare, the irony is simply delicious.
It is this massive ignorance that tickles me. Not because I want to south to secede, but because the people who actually seem to want it are so incredibly stupid. I imagine this is why most of the people here also find it humorous.
31
Someone started those petitions and people have been linking to them and signing them as a joke. I'm sure some are serious, but let's not forget, this is the internet, and people don't take it seriously.
And when's the last time the White House responded to any of those petitions anyway?
And when's the last time the White House responded to any of those petitions anyway?
32
I don't think we should let them go with all that beach front property. They can all leave and give up their citizenship if they don't want to stay, but they cannot take our beaches, oil, or other resources!
33
First: Cross-reference the 15 states requesting to secede with this map of racist post-election tweets.
Second: If you are serious about having these 15 states secede, go to the WH petitions page, Filter by "Government Reform", and add your name. They certainly need the signatures to get anywhere close to their goal. :D
Second: If you are serious about having these 15 states secede, go to the WH petitions page, Filter by "Government Reform", and add your name. They certainly need the signatures to get anywhere close to their goal. :D
34
@21 You know they're not actually serious about seceding, right? That even if they get enough signatures, nothing will change? I generally agree with your point, but sometimes it's just fun to watch a bunch of drama queens throw a fit. In another week or 2 people will regain their composure (most of us, at least) and things will return to normal, so just sit back and enjoy the shitshow while it lasts.
35
@ 19, I've been to Alabama. In fact, I've been to every state that seceded. I've had friends who lived in Alabama, Georgia, and Louisiana. So I say the following with some authority.
There aren't "a few dumbasses" in those states. They are the most visible and vocal members of the South's white population. There are millions of these dumbasses. Sure, right now only a few are signing these petitions, but they express the sentiments of millions of Southern white people.
Anyway, you should lighten up. At least when we lose elections, we talk about moving away*, not breaking up the nation.
* Not me. I'll always fight for my country, and enjoy weeks like this as my reward.
There aren't "a few dumbasses" in those states. They are the most visible and vocal members of the South's white population. There are millions of these dumbasses. Sure, right now only a few are signing these petitions, but they express the sentiments of millions of Southern white people.
Anyway, you should lighten up. At least when we lose elections, we talk about moving away*, not breaking up the nation.
* Not me. I'll always fight for my country, and enjoy weeks like this as my reward.
36
Don't write off millions of progressive voters in red states just because a relatively small amount of dipshits signed an online petition.
We need to reach out to people in red states now more than ever, while the conservative powers that be are rocking on their heels.
We need to reach out to people in red states now more than ever, while the conservative powers that be are rocking on their heels.
37
I've long thought a balkanized America could be a much happier place. We could easily be six countries (or more).
But history suggests such things rarely come about peacefully. And even if it did, the upheaval would be tremendous...there are plentyof people living in the south (I used to be one of them) that would hightail it out of there were it no longer part of the US. I'm sure the same is true of other regions as well.
Anyway, Cascadia uber alles!
But history suggests such things rarely come about peacefully. And even if it did, the upheaval would be tremendous...there are plentyof people living in the south (I used to be one of them) that would hightail it out of there were it no longer part of the US. I'm sure the same is true of other regions as well.
Anyway, Cascadia uber alles!
39
Do you think that after a year or so of their Confederacy 2.0's economy collapsing, they'd come to their senses and say "oh yeah - we were wrong!" No - we'd find ourselves toe to toe with a third-world country with LOTS of guns, nothing to lose, and a feeling of overwhelming moral certitude. They may not have industry, or intelligence, or a sense of what actually makes a functioning economy, but they have loyalty and, to paraphrase The Usual Suspects, "the willingness to do what the other guy won't".
40
@30 I generally agree with your post, but it's worth noting that Texas has a very robust economy and it certainly isn't on "federal welfare." In fact, Texas generates more federal tax revenue than the federal government spends on Texas.
41
@34 (and others): yes, I'm well aware of the legal and practical impossibility of secession, just as I'm aware that these petitions are essentially temper tantrums (hence my referring to the petitioners as "secessionist-minded Fox News viewers in a pet."). And as someone who worked on Obama's GOTV effort in Oregon like it was a full time job, I've enjoyed my own bit of schadenfreude watching Rove and other GOP pundits and figureheads melt down. But as someone who grew up in Texas, lived out the Bush years there, and left family there when I moved to Oregon hoping to get away from some of the "if you're not with us, your against us, you anti-American socialist" nonsense, I hate seeing people who I think should know better head down a similar path and "joke" about shooting southerners and bombing Reb states. I'm just fucking sick of this shit, and would love it if we could enjoy our victory without wishing death and poverty on people.
44
@42 Fair enough. I agree that jokes about shooting and bombing people are in poor taste, but I'm also not seeing a lot of that in this comment thread (with at least one notable exception). That said, I gather from your life history that jokes about dumb, ignorant southerners probably hit pretty close to home.
46
If they leave, I wouldn't miss them too much. If they start a war over it, I'll enlist for the Union.
48
I think some of these people are deadly serious about seceding.
In fact I bet with-in the next decade you will see small violent "insurgencies (for lack of better word)" develop from small militia groups in the US that will culminate in not just violent extremist terrorism but is actual small-scale open skirmish combat.
They will lose. Badly.
But let's remember that in places like Bosnia and Serbia the actual number of combatants was a tiny minority of the population. It' doesn't take much to completely fuck up a country for a couple of decades.
In fact I bet with-in the next decade you will see small violent "insurgencies (for lack of better word)" develop from small militia groups in the US that will culminate in not just violent extremist terrorism but is actual small-scale open skirmish combat.
They will lose. Badly.
But let's remember that in places like Bosnia and Serbia the actual number of combatants was a tiny minority of the population. It' doesn't take much to completely fuck up a country for a couple of decades.
50
Let 'em pack their schoolbags with comic books and potato chips and get as far away as the end of the block. "I'm running away and you'll never see me again!"
51
As much as I hate to say this, a few weeks before the election, my father-in-law (a gun-owning Southerner) went on record as saying, "If Obama is reelected, there's going to be a revolution in this country!" My husband and I thought it was funny to think of people rebelling because a man won a majority of popular and/or electoral votes, but--let's face it--a lot of people from Cal Thomas to Tony Perkins to anonymous racist tweeters are in a rabid state of mind right now. I don't think a serious effort at secession is going to take place, because the states themselves would have to be behind it, and even a Republican asshat like Bobby Jindal ultimately knows that Louisiana can't make it without the federal government. But I can easily see some public unrest on the local level, particularly in the the South.
53
I like our fiesty southern neighbors! I would hate to lose them, especially Austin, New Orleans, and the Gulf coast of Florida. But 10,000 signatures? Whoop-de-doo. I suck at math, but isn't that like, a fraction of a fraction of 1 percent of voters? That's just a handful of teabaggers letting off steam.
54
@ 35
Pro-tip: You've been to Alabama. I was born and raised there. I think I am a tiny bit more of an authority than you are.
Pro-tip: You've been to Alabama. I was born and raised there. I think I am a tiny bit more of an authority than you are.
57
I think we should totally let the south secede - give them like 2 years - they'll collapse into ruin and come running back. And in the meantime we can institute things like single payer health care and high taxes on rich people.
58
Just spent the weekend with friends in West Virginia. Spent plenty of time in Georgia and Tennessee when I was in the military. In general, regardless of their politics, you could not hope to meet nicer and more decent people. We'd be much less of a country without em.
59
@53, You don't have to be a math major to know that these petition-signers are a fringe element at best.
Here's a little math tidbit, though: In 2008, 3.5M Texans voted for Barack Obama. In Washington, 1.7M people voted for Obama. That's right- there are twice as many voting Democrats in Texas as there are in Washington.
And the numbers are rising. There's a possibility that Texas will be a swing state in 2016.
Here's a little math tidbit, though: In 2008, 3.5M Texans voted for Barack Obama. In Washington, 1.7M people voted for Obama. That's right- there are twice as many voting Democrats in Texas as there are in Washington.
And the numbers are rising. There's a possibility that Texas will be a swing state in 2016.
60
And where is the proud state of Idaho in all this?? Sleeping 'til noon?? What a bunch of survivalist slackers!
61
@60 Last week Idaho realised what a kick-ass deal Obamacare was for Idaho. They're not going anywhere.
62
@55 You missed the joke. That's good, though. It reflects well on you. It just means you don't waste as much time on the web as some of us do.
This is exactly what that obnoxious Russian political functionary predicted would happen. Americans would start fighting amongst each other and the Union would break apart, just like it happened to the U.S.S.R. He was obviously still bitter about coming out the loser in history and was practically salivating over the possibility of things evening out a bit.
Do we want that? Do we want to take what makes us strong - our diversity of cultures, history, and geography, held together by a strong common national identity - and throw it out? Just because some disgruntled folks aren't happy that things have changed a bit? Don't you consider the South (and New York, and Oregon) to be part of who we are? Would you cut off your arm to spite your hand?
We are a strong, diverse, large, vibrant nation. The red states ad to that mix. We both would be significantly poorer on our own. We have to stick together. I know the right wing nuts show their true patriotism when things don't go their way (hello Alaska Independence Party), but we can't sink to their level. And we can't allow those bitter old Russians to have their permanent satisfaction. We must drag each other along, if need be, for the good of all of us.
This is exactly what that obnoxious Russian political functionary predicted would happen. Americans would start fighting amongst each other and the Union would break apart, just like it happened to the U.S.S.R. He was obviously still bitter about coming out the loser in history and was practically salivating over the possibility of things evening out a bit.
Do we want that? Do we want to take what makes us strong - our diversity of cultures, history, and geography, held together by a strong common national identity - and throw it out? Just because some disgruntled folks aren't happy that things have changed a bit? Don't you consider the South (and New York, and Oregon) to be part of who we are? Would you cut off your arm to spite your hand?
We are a strong, diverse, large, vibrant nation. The red states ad to that mix. We both would be significantly poorer on our own. We have to stick together. I know the right wing nuts show their true patriotism when things don't go their way (hello Alaska Independence Party), but we can't sink to their level. And we can't allow those bitter old Russians to have their permanent satisfaction. We must drag each other along, if need be, for the good of all of us.
64
I was born and raised in Pennsylvania and moved to Louisiana 10 years ago.
It really is a tiny minority of drunken, racist idiots with access to a computer and the internet who do things like this, and then when they get attention, they keep doing it. I think people automatically equate a southern accent with stupidity and backward thinking, but some of the most intelligent, progressive people I know were born and raised in the south and would never consider living elsewhere.
Oh, and Obama won every city in the state of Louisiana, by a good margin. He got a somewhat higher percentage of the vote in the state than he did in 2008.
It really is a tiny minority of drunken, racist idiots with access to a computer and the internet who do things like this, and then when they get attention, they keep doing it. I think people automatically equate a southern accent with stupidity and backward thinking, but some of the most intelligent, progressive people I know were born and raised in the south and would never consider living elsewhere.
Oh, and Obama won every city in the state of Louisiana, by a good margin. He got a somewhat higher percentage of the vote in the state than he did in 2008.
65
"Interestingly?" Gawker doesn't know Oregon very well. While the seriously wiggy rightwingers (i.e. most of the population east of Interstate 5) are a minority, they're an incredibly loud one with lots of time to play on the interwubz.
As opposed to us Oregon liberals who actually, y'know, work.
(And - credit where it's due - the fair number of moderate Republican pols who were willing to work with an evenly-split House for the last two years rather than playing the obstructionist crap.)
As opposed to us Oregon liberals who actually, y'know, work.
(And - credit where it's due - the fair number of moderate Republican pols who were willing to work with an evenly-split House for the last two years rather than playing the obstructionist crap.)
66
I may be wrong in thinking this, but it would seem to me that the signatures requesting the right for each state to secede would be limited to the residents of each respective state. Something like the residents of Texas are asking to secede. If that's the case, then how is it that 25% of the last 200 signatues on Texas's petition are not Texans? Or have these people gotten confused, and think that this is their opportunity to thin the herd?
67
As I thought. From the Wyoming petition:
We the people of the great state of Wyoming, do see that blah blah blah.
However, 45 of the last 60 signatures are not Wyoming residents.
So, we should all be signing up to vote Florida out of the union. They keep fucking up the whole election process.
We the people of the great state of Wyoming, do see that blah blah blah.
However, 45 of the last 60 signatures are not Wyoming residents.
So, we should all be signing up to vote Florida out of the union. They keep fucking up the whole election process.
68
@54 - I agree that violence is uncalled for. However, do you still commonly overhear the word "nigger" in conversations at white bars and such? Because I actually got numb to that living there.
To be fair, Montgomery may be particularly bad in that regard. Which part do you live in?
To be fair, Montgomery may be particularly bad in that regard. Which part do you live in?
69
@ 54, if you're trying to tell me that there these asswipes are not typical of white Alabama residents, then it doesn't matter who lives there and who doesn't. I know better.
71
lol, there's a great counter petition to "Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them."
72
@56 Interestingly enough, if you do a search on recent 'Cascadia' forum discussions, they're chuck full of Libertarian slash Stormfront types looking to form some sort of pine-scented randian white utopia. Equal parts scary and bone stupid.
73
Am I the only one who keeps hearing the last line of Tom Lehrer's "Who's Next?"
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb.
Who's next?
We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb.
Who's next?
76
@54 My born-and-raised in Alabama boyfriend, who is currently completing his PhD up north, refuses to go home for the holidays because of how obnoxiously, politically unpleasant everyone was when he went back for his brother's birthday. He's actually got a bit of a complex because, as he says, there's nothing about his home state for him to be proud of.
77
A practical history lesson
The right to secede is not addressed by the U.S. Constitution. However, it is logical to assume that those States that were sovereign entities before theey joined the Union had the right to secede. The original 13 colonies definitely had the legal right to secede, Texas and California are problematical because they only came into existence or maintained their independence through actual or threatened military action by the US. The States of the Confederacy that had it, lost it when they waged war against the U.S. in support of the States that did not have that right and were conquered. In addition, they ceased property belonging to the U.S. without compensation something generally considered to be an act of war. All other States have the problem that they exist on land that was originally owned by the U.S. Ownership of land/property not retained by the U.S. was transferred when those States were admitted to the Union and is only retained while they remain in the Union. Think about it as the division of property in a nasty divorce.
The reality is that the right to secede ceased to exist as a result of the Civil War.
Voluntary dissolution of the Union through a constitutional convention is something else entirely. That is how the Articles of Confederacy were replaced by the Constitution. However, I doubt if 75% of the States would ever agree to hold a convention.
The right to secede is not addressed by the U.S. Constitution. However, it is logical to assume that those States that were sovereign entities before theey joined the Union had the right to secede. The original 13 colonies definitely had the legal right to secede, Texas and California are problematical because they only came into existence or maintained their independence through actual or threatened military action by the US. The States of the Confederacy that had it, lost it when they waged war against the U.S. in support of the States that did not have that right and were conquered. In addition, they ceased property belonging to the U.S. without compensation something generally considered to be an act of war. All other States have the problem that they exist on land that was originally owned by the U.S. Ownership of land/property not retained by the U.S. was transferred when those States were admitted to the Union and is only retained while they remain in the Union. Think about it as the division of property in a nasty divorce.
The reality is that the right to secede ceased to exist as a result of the Civil War.
Voluntary dissolution of the Union through a constitutional convention is something else entirely. That is how the Articles of Confederacy were replaced by the Constitution. However, I doubt if 75% of the States would ever agree to hold a convention.
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