Slog Comments
One Thing I'm Not Giving Thanks for Today Is the American Work "Ethic" and Our Inhumane Labor Laws
1
Funny thing: by ILO standards, Germans are still more productive and efficient than American workers. Get more done in less time.
2
I'm working today(moving the mail) but get the next 2 days off .breaktime now.Ialso get 5 weeks off a year thanks to my UNION. Salud to all here
3
Part of the reason this household is working long hours and will be until we are too old and sick to work anymore is the lack of retirement benefits that include a health plan. Retirement plans that included health care benefits used to be the norm when I was growing up.
My father retired in his late fifties and lived until 86 with good health care benefits. We're both planning on working until at least 65, when Medicare kicks in, or later. Much later if physically possible. We're both salaried, working for large high tech firms. Retirement benefits like my father had in the tech industry have pretty much dissapeared.
We've saved quit a bit of money and have good investments and if we didn't have to worry about health care costs, we could easily live on what we have right now until our 90s.
I like Obama care, and sure as heck voted Democrat so it would continue to exist, but it's not going to be the same as our current good benefits. It can't afford to be.
My father retired in his late fifties and lived until 86 with good health care benefits. We're both planning on working until at least 65, when Medicare kicks in, or later. Much later if physically possible. We're both salaried, working for large high tech firms. Retirement benefits like my father had in the tech industry have pretty much dissapeared.
We've saved quit a bit of money and have good investments and if we didn't have to worry about health care costs, we could easily live on what we have right now until our 90s.
I like Obama care, and sure as heck voted Democrat so it would continue to exist, but it's not going to be the same as our current good benefits. It can't afford to be.
4
South Koreans make Americans look like a bunch of lazy asses.
Not everything is about comparing the U.S. to Europe. It's such a liberal cliché and frankly it's racist. Only the white people count, oh and also Japan. Typical. *eye roll*
Not everything is about comparing the U.S. to Europe. It's such a liberal cliché and frankly it's racist. Only the white people count, oh and also Japan. Typical. *eye roll*
5
If the rest of us weren't working such long hours with so few days off, perhaps there would be more jobs to go around!
It's not a zero sum game Goldy. You're not dividing up a pie of jobs with a dollop of whipped cream. You get more jobs when companies have the economic certainty to invest.
6
It's already Thursday evening here in France, where unemployment tops 10%. Young people living in the banlieus of Paris face a 40% unemployment rate. Happy Thanksgiving.
7
The irony is that it is only the flexibility (he would say inhumanity) of America's labor laws that allow a pain in the ass like Goldy to have a job in the first place. Honestly, would anybody hire this man if the law didn't give them the authority to pay him a pittance and fire him whenever they felt like it?
8
#5 Ms Wallingford, I think the paradigm must change. You get more jobs when companies innovate and start to move in the direction of pie for everyone, with lots of whipped cream. Of course the cream is hormone free and the cow free range (eating the neighbor's veggies) and milked by hand. So you are right, this is NOT a game. Pie is serious business. Thank you, thank you, I am thankful for YOU today.
9
@7 Oh man, you just totally deconstructed my argument by attacking me personally! I've been totally pwned! You are a brilliant rhetorician!
11
@5,
Companies need to hire more people when they have more customers.
More customers appear when people have the resources to buy products.
People have the resources to buy products when they have good paying jobs and enough time off to enjoy using their newly bought products.
It's a really simple and obvious thing that republicans like to distort by throwing Wall Street gambling in the mix.
People don't hold off starting a company because they're afraid they don't have enough money. Look at the most successful businesses in the country and how they started. Many of them simply jumped right in with no "economic certainty" whatsoever.
Happy thanksgiving.
You get more jobs when companies have the economic certainty to invest.No, you get more jobs when companies need to hire more people.
Companies need to hire more people when they have more customers.
More customers appear when people have the resources to buy products.
People have the resources to buy products when they have good paying jobs and enough time off to enjoy using their newly bought products.
It's a really simple and obvious thing that republicans like to distort by throwing Wall Street gambling in the mix.
People don't hold off starting a company because they're afraid they don't have enough money. Look at the most successful businesses in the country and how they started. Many of them simply jumped right in with no "economic certainty" whatsoever.
Happy thanksgiving.
12
I'm thankful for this post. Too often Americans with vacation don't take it out of fear of seeming less valuable to their employer.
14
Well if you spent high school smoking weed and trying to bang that smelly hippie girl next to you, guess what? Your competitor is a hard working, eager and ambitious Chinese or Indian kid who didn't smoke weed in high school. Tough shit. I'm just thankful I studied hard so I get two weeks off this thanksgiving. Greetings from Hawaii.
16
Speaking of labor, KOMO's headline (via the P-I) about the delayed ferry run yesterday paints a picture of a lazy captain.
"Sleeping captain blamed for ferry delays"
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/arti…
It turns out he came onboard to spend the night, but got on the wrong vessel instead of the one he was scheduled to pilot. It also turns out that spending the night on board is routine.
So I'm wondering why that's the case. What are working conditions for the ferry captains? What are they paid? Something about this reminds me of the commuter plane that crashed on the East Coast a few years ago which had a young co-pilot from this area. We found out afterward that she commuted from Washington across the country for her job and that the low pay--around or even under $20K--didn't allow her to afford an apartment over there and she routinely slept in airport lounges and may well have been fatigued during her flights. And this was not unusual for pilots working second-tier jobs.
"Sleeping captain blamed for ferry delays"
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/arti…
It turns out he came onboard to spend the night, but got on the wrong vessel instead of the one he was scheduled to pilot. It also turns out that spending the night on board is routine.
So I'm wondering why that's the case. What are working conditions for the ferry captains? What are they paid? Something about this reminds me of the commuter plane that crashed on the East Coast a few years ago which had a young co-pilot from this area. We found out afterward that she commuted from Washington across the country for her job and that the low pay--around or even under $20K--didn't allow her to afford an apartment over there and she routinely slept in airport lounges and may well have been fatigued during her flights. And this was not unusual for pilots working second-tier jobs.
17
@7
I figure they hired him 'cause he's smarter than you, so it was old-fashioned competition that kept them from knocking on your door, figuratively speaking.
I figure they hired him 'cause he's smarter than you, so it was old-fashioned competition that kept them from knocking on your door, figuratively speaking.
18
@13
"All true, but you have to meet payroll."
Wouldn't that be calculated into the price of whatever product/service is being sold?
Or do you think that "payroll" magically happens or does not happen?
"All true, but you have to meet payroll."
Wouldn't that be calculated into the price of whatever product/service is being sold?
Or do you think that "payroll" magically happens or does not happen?
20
I'm just thankful that Goldy's influence doesn't extend beyond his laughable opinion columns. My god, if an idiot like that was in charge, we'd be fucked.
21
Goldy: Amen!
Phoebe: An inanimate object is less clueless than you. Everything you think you know is wrong. Chill out, eat some turkey, have a lovely Thanksgiving. Take a fresh start tomorrow, dear.
Phoebe: An inanimate object is less clueless than you. Everything you think you know is wrong. Chill out, eat some turkey, have a lovely Thanksgiving. Take a fresh start tomorrow, dear.
22
I personally don't think that hard work is always a virtue, or that sloth is always a vice. If a "good work ethic" is working forty-hours-plus for an employer that barely pays you and doesn't value your contribution - if you're essentially handing over your life for the benefit of this indifferent employer - then you're a fool, like Henry David Thoreau pointed out ("Life Without Principle"). If being slothful is going out on the one sunny day when the laundry is piled up to the ceiling, then you know what? You only live once. You're throwing away your life if you're spending it conforming to the expectations of others. I agree that it's nice to have a job, but it would also be nicer if your workforce had the time to stay emotionally healthy and the means to develop its potential.
In a somewhat related note: The less crap you have, the less bills you have to pay, the less you have to sell your life to penny-pinching dead-end employers.
In a somewhat related note: The less crap you have, the less bills you have to pay, the less you have to sell your life to penny-pinching dead-end employers.
23
If the rest of us weren't working such long hours with so few days off, perhaps there would be more jobs to go around!
I thought of that several times reading the posts from Democratic moochers. Sure, many of them were working hard at jobs they loved, and might work that hard no matter the unemployment statistics. But I bet at least a few of them would like to breathe a little easier. And the self-employed people, doing the American Dream of running your own business -- if health care wasn't such a burdensome cost, I bet at least a few of them would have more people on their payroll.
I thought of that several times reading the posts from Democratic moochers. Sure, many of them were working hard at jobs they loved, and might work that hard no matter the unemployment statistics. But I bet at least a few of them would like to breathe a little easier. And the self-employed people, doing the American Dream of running your own business -- if health care wasn't such a burdensome cost, I bet at least a few of them would have more people on their payroll.
24
You didn't mention those poor buggers who have to put down their forks and rush back to their minimum-wage Target and WalMart jobs by 9pm in order to sell crap all night long to the people who get two days off.
25
@ 19 - You can't see the where the disagreement lies because your grey matter was long ago replaced by fecal matter.
26
" If the rest of us weren't working such long hours with so few days off, perhaps there would be more jobs to go around! "
Well they tried that in France and guess what? Unemployment still over 10%. And you all bitch that 8% is bad?
Well they tried that in France and guess what? Unemployment still over 10%. And you all bitch that 8% is bad?
27
Phoebe, your constant flailing shows you dont understand what point you are trying to either agree or maybe disagree with. You note that Urgutha Forka's points are all true then you U-turn and make your silly payroll crack.
You see, the factors Urgutha Forka notes are the very things that asdure an employer will "make payroll"
But when others call you on your silliness you attempt to figuratively bat your eyelashes and go "What? I dont see it".
You are a joke, Phoebe. Have a good thanksgiving, hon.
You see, the factors Urgutha Forka notes are the very things that asdure an employer will "make payroll"
But when others call you on your silliness you attempt to figuratively bat your eyelashes and go "What? I dont see it".
You are a joke, Phoebe. Have a good thanksgiving, hon.
28
Vacation (Urlaub) in Germany is sacred. When they go on vacation here, or even when the work day ends, they are GONE. There are no "work cell" in their pocket, there is no more work done, they are GONE. It's annoying when you call someone you've been working with on a project for weeks, get their colleague, and are told "____ is on vacation, call back in 2 weeks". Makes life difficult when you have to start over with someone else, but things somehow work out.
Ultimately though there is one difference between German and the U.S. in this regard; in Germany people guard and fight to the death for their holidays and vacation. No one will take a job that gives them less vacation than they feel they deserve. The U.S. we bend over backward to GIVE UP our vacation, to get that promotion, to suck up to our shitty boss, to beat that person who wanted to spend time with their family from time to time (pussies, clearly). Until everyone stands up and demands some time off, the U.S. won't get any.
Ultimately though there is one difference between German and the U.S. in this regard; in Germany people guard and fight to the death for their holidays and vacation. No one will take a job that gives them less vacation than they feel they deserve. The U.S. we bend over backward to GIVE UP our vacation, to get that promotion, to suck up to our shitty boss, to beat that person who wanted to spend time with their family from time to time (pussies, clearly). Until everyone stands up and demands some time off, the U.S. won't get any.
30
@28 Yes, but the price they pay is being German. I'd rather be a hemorrhoid than a fat German chasing 12 yr old boys around Sri Lankan beaches for 5 weeks a year.
31
I like having these four days off, but generally speaking? Fuck rest. I work 70 hours per week and sleep 5 hours per night designing things to make the world a better place. If I don't work, things get better slower. Life is short, and death is long. I'll rest when I'm dead.
32
I was going to take a picture for your "Workers for Obama" or whatever it is today. I forgot my camera, and I'm on a 12 hour shift.
33
26
just hold on.
they are taxing millionaires out of existence so they should have the problem fixed in no time at all...
just hold on.
they are taxing millionaires out of existence so they should have the problem fixed in no time at all...
36
@35, no.
Productivity means employers get more work out of less employees and thus have more profit to distribute to CEOs and shareholders. Productivity doesn't do shit for the employees.
Productivity means employers get more work out of less employees and thus have more profit to distribute to CEOs and shareholders. Productivity doesn't do shit for the employees.
37
@36 Seriously, take a fucking break. Have some fucking bourbon. Chill the fuck out. Everything will still be there to bitch about tomorrow.
38
America has NEVER respected work;if it did,then nobody here would have EVER been underpaid!(The word "underpaid" is one of the most underused word in this empire).Most citizens with jobs are underpaid,and the average amount underpaid is probably over five United States Notes per hour (when converted into hourly wages).You need to go back GENERATIONS to find an historical equivalent in this racistic empire!
39
Federal minimum wage was never a living wage(and it should have been pegged to cost of living per CONgressional district).
40
Those closest most wage slaves in this employers' paradise get to feel like they are in a labor union is when they get paid time and a half (for working on a federal holiday or overtime);you'd think they'd ideologically "awaken" during such experiences,but,alas!Their Boob Tube is still operational . . . .------- http://www.workersoldarity.org
41
@37 Logging onto the internet to complain about other people complaining. What a hard life you must lead.
42
@7 - I get the feeling you're jealous because Goldy gets paid for his opinion while you're limited to whining in Internet comments. And his opinion is respected far more than yours is! Bet that reaaaaally sticks in your craw.
45
@42 I respect Goldy for turning his penchant for posting disagreeable internet comments into a career. It is an achievement any web troll would admire. However, I think the notion that Americans working fewer hours would create more jobs is a liberal pipe-dream. In France the standard work week is 35 hours, but in that country far fewer people have jobs than in the US.
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