Slog Comments
New Fathers Wired to Stop Chasing Ass (At Least For a Little While)
4
@1: lower testosterone doesn't mean no sex, just less mate-seeking behavior on average. YMMV.
Might the reduced ass-chasing also make for a more harmonious, newly-procreating couple? She's wiped out from pregnancy, birth, and nursing and he's not playing with the chick in the next cave quite as much.
Might the reduced ass-chasing also make for a more harmonious, newly-procreating couple? She's wiped out from pregnancy, birth, and nursing and he's not playing with the chick in the next cave quite as much.
5
@4 I think it's higher stress levels. Stress is a bitch. New responsibilities, new bills, new noises and less sleep. Looks like Will and Kate are about to find out.
6
Sigh. Dreger dredges up the old Nature/Nurture false dichotomy. Biological factors interact with environmental ones. Environment effects biological processes, but that doesn't mean that these things are physical, real, and determinative of some behaviors. Everything is performance, blah blah blah, but Mother Nature writes the basic script that individuals then enact, with much variation based on environment and individual variance in biology.
9
Yeah, it seems (from reading the papers) that a lot of guys go "on a run" after having the kid.
Sex is competitive...it basically comes down to everyone wants whatever everyone else has...keeping up with the Joneses.
So if one gets a baby, the others all need to have one too. And if the male shows that he is capable of generating one, then they all have to have it as well.
My friend Scott, who was shag machine in college, called this the "dog in a manger" effect.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/dog-i…
10
@6 Huh? The point of my comment was to highlight interactonism -- that it isn't biology OR environment but rather biology + environment. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
And as for it being from 2011, uh, I'm an historian, so that still counts as new. #lameexcuse
And as for it being from 2011, uh, I'm an historian, so that still counts as new. #lameexcuse
12
@3, as I understand these things, in order for it to have been published, there had to have been randomized control trials.
15
This can't be right.
They must have made a mistake.
Because here on Slog we know that Single Motherhood is fine, in fact JUST AS GOOD,
and we know here on Slog that Lesbians make the best parents, that two cute chicks (OK. even two beefy butch broads...) are better parents than any woman saddled with a man can be.
We also know, here on Slog; that two guys are JUST AS GOOD as a man married to the mother of his children.
So, we call BullShit.
They must have made a mistake.
Because here on Slog we know that Single Motherhood is fine, in fact JUST AS GOOD,
and we know here on Slog that Lesbians make the best parents, that two cute chicks (OK. even two beefy butch broads...) are better parents than any woman saddled with a man can be.
We also know, here on Slog; that two guys are JUST AS GOOD as a man married to the mother of his children.
So, we call BullShit.
16
Oh sure, if'n a dude is middle-aged & rich, it's alright, but c'mon! Unless you are of middle-age yourself, do you really want a 45 year old dude chasing your ass?
18
@9: Um...you're misusing the metaphor "dog in a manger", and you're doing a piss-poor job of playing evolutionary psychologist.
20
@AliceDreger: if 2 different people can logically interpret something 2 different ways, then it's not really proof - it's evidence.
21
@16, You know Keekee, if you had said that a 40 year old woman is completely useless as a sexual being (even something to be feard if it is "on your ass"), this comment thread would be exploding right now.
Perhaps sexism and ageism is not ok, even if you are not the targeted gender or age group?
Hmm?
Perhaps sexism and ageism is not ok, even if you are not the targeted gender or age group?
Hmm?
23
@16: You are clearly young and foolish. At least one of those thing will resolve itself in time. The other... well, hope for the best.
24
@16 Keekee
20-ish waifs aren't the only ones with an ass. Nor are they categorically the be-all-end-all for the attraction scale.
Psst, your ageism is showing.
20-ish waifs aren't the only ones with an ass. Nor are they categorically the be-all-end-all for the attraction scale.
Psst, your ageism is showing.
25
New dads are also stressed and exhausted, both of which cause testosterone decline. Mom probably isn't prancing around in a sexually playful manner either. The link doesn't mention whether these were controlled for.
I am sure the rooster would claim causation between his crowing and the sun coming up, but wishful thinking doesn't make it so.
I am sure the rooster would claim causation between his crowing and the sun coming up, but wishful thinking doesn't make it so.
26
WoW!
Some folks really want to believe that middle-aged dudes are getting it on all the time. It's almost like they have a personal investment in said belief.
Some folks really want to believe that middle-aged dudes are getting it on all the time. It's almost like they have a personal investment in said belief.
27
Testosterone is not the smartest hormone around if all it does is make you chase the ass. I guess that's why "close" is good enough for the guys aiming our predator drone missiles.
28
@26, or perhaps they get it on with quite a few horny middle-aged dudes and have experience to counter your nonsense?
29
Oh KeeKee, sweetheart. Check back with us in 25 or so years. Well not 'us'....may of us will probably be dead/ too old to use a computer. But do check back here when you've reach the advanced age of 45. In my experience, REAL hotness and desire doesn't even begin to develop until after 40. You're just playing at it now.
30
@29 I'd say after 35.
This reminds me that when I was 35, I hooked up with a 53 years-old male, who gave me my first orgasm just by licking my feet. Miaow !
This reminds me that when I was 35, I hooked up with a 53 years-old male, who gave me my first orgasm just by licking my feet. Miaow !
31
@26 I was fucking guys in their 50s when I was in my 20s. Granted this sort of thing is probably more common for gays but it's not that unusual.
33
I'd like to see us study the trigger. For example, compare biological fathers to adoptive fathers. Compare fathers who are significantly active in the care of their child to ones who are not. It raises questions like, if a man takes a job caring for babies, will his testosterone levels be affected?
34
Just for the record, Ima thanking that it is a safe assumption that your average Slog contributor's sexual habits do not match up with those of the average middle-aged American male.
37
@34: I got it. You're not fucking middle aged males, and being the center and entirety of the universe, you are in the perfect position to declare that it doesn't happen.
40
Keekee, I'm with you on this. Nobody can tell me forty-plus men are getting as much action as their twenty-year-old counterparts, same woman or different women. Their bodies are declining and so are their testosterone levels (fact). The rare lothario notwithstanding, a middle-age guy will not have the same vigor and lust to offer as a young man. Young ladies know this, they don't generally see middle-age guys as attractive as young guys, and so they expect the middle-age guy to have a little extra to offer ($$). Older people are just not as attractive, I'm sorry. That's not ageism, that's a fact.
41
@40: I'm calling mission creep.
Setting that aside, your unspoken assumption is that the frequency and quality of sex that straight men have is entirely dependent on:
a) how much sex they want
b) how many times they are able to ejaculate in a given period of time
c) how attractive 20-year-old women find them
Anyone see any flaws in that?
Setting that aside, your unspoken assumption is that the frequency and quality of sex that straight men have is entirely dependent on:
a) how much sex they want
b) how many times they are able to ejaculate in a given period of time
c) how attractive 20-year-old women find them
Anyone see any flaws in that?
43
I'd just like to put in here that I'm a 40-year-old woman, and the men of my generation are totally hitting their stride. I liked them a lot before, but now they are really killing it. YUM!
44
@43: In my twenties I had an affair with a woman in her fifties. At some point she told me she regretted that she would be pushing 80 when I got into my 40s and 50s, because "that's when you're going to get really cool." Like younglings everywhere and probably for always, I had no idea what she was talking about.
Funny that even as I was attracted to and fucking a 50-something woman, I couldn't imagine that I might be attractive when I got that old.
Funny that even as I was attracted to and fucking a 50-something woman, I couldn't imagine that I might be attractive when I got that old.
45
@40:
"Older people are just not as attractive, I'm sorry. That's not ageism, that's a fact."
What if I said:
"Darker people are just not as attractive, I'm sorry. That's not racism, that's a fact."
See how stupid you are? I know you think (along with Keekee) that you are the center of the universe, and what you find attractive IS objectively attractive, but since you are just one (moronic) person, perhaps that is just your opinion?
Or maybe the worth of people is not just what you decide it is based on their appearance? Maybe?
"Older people are just not as attractive, I'm sorry. That's not ageism, that's a fact."
What if I said:
"Darker people are just not as attractive, I'm sorry. That's not racism, that's a fact."
See how stupid you are? I know you think (along with Keekee) that you are the center of the universe, and what you find attractive IS objectively attractive, but since you are just one (moronic) person, perhaps that is just your opinion?
Or maybe the worth of people is not just what you decide it is based on their appearance? Maybe?
46
In my mid-20's, I was sure there was no sex (or desire) after 40, too, KeeKee. YUCK- who'd want to do it with someone that ancient?! Like watching turtles mate or something. I was looking forward to relief from desire- since it was causing no end of problems in my 20's.
Alas, 40 is over a decade gone, but the desire and its fulfillment sure aren't. Another myth of youth, my dear. I hear tell folks in their 70's and even 80's STILL want the poontang. Beats all, don't it?
Alas, 40 is over a decade gone, but the desire and its fulfillment sure aren't. Another myth of youth, my dear. I hear tell folks in their 70's and even 80's STILL want the poontang. Beats all, don't it?
47
As for testosterone diminishing at childbirth for dads- it's the stress and anxiety of suddenly being responsible for a helpless human life that kills it, imho. Few dads are prepared for that reality until the kid shows up, then blammo- he's had it. The last thing on the mind is sex. More like sheer terror, but thankfully, that passes after 15-20 years.....
48
@3...how could anyone do a randomized controlled trial of this? I don't think you could get IRB (ethics committee) clearance to randomized some men into fatherhood and others into childless (childfree)-ness. By necessity this type of research has to be observational. At least it was prospective and they were able to demonstrate that the men had higher testosterone before they became fathers. .
50
@48: They could do case controls. Pair up men who have fathered children with those who have not, but are otherwise similar in their medical history, finances, ethnicity, and social class.
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