Slog Comments
Mass Shooting at Portland Mall—At Least Two People Dead
2
Led to freedom, not 'lead'.
And freedom is what it's all about there, freedom to carry lethal weapons. Yee Haaaaahhh!
And freedom is what it's all about there, freedom to carry lethal weapons. Yee Haaaaahhh!
3
in france germany sweden canada japan and about 30 other nations, with effective gun limits, gun controls, registration, and just far fewer guns --see they don't have a bunch of stupid moronic crazy gun owning gun lovers like we are cursed with here -- this shit just does not happen. it does not happen anywhere near the frequency it happens here. also not happening over in yoorupe: soccer stars do not go crazy and gunshoot their baby momma then themselves. and they do not have entire neighborhoods plagued by gun violence.
what they really do not have is a bunch of gun owning gun defenders who crazily think you can have a few hundred million guns all over, and be safe.
once again, no NRA owners stopped this shooter. nope, they almost never do. becuase obviously, guns do not make us safe, they make us unsafe. why do you think the earp bros. banned guns in town? they were more civilized than we are today.
and the second amendment. don't get me started. you have to admit, we can ban you and I from owning nukes, yet clearly nukes are "arms" are they not? well then, it lets the government ban classes of arms. so it would let the govt. ban classes of handguns, private ownership of assault rifles etc., though perhaps it would require govt. to allow highly limited and highly licensed and regulated gun ownership. like in canada or england or other sane places without this god damend crazy violence fostered and enabled by the nra and the gun owners we got here.
seriously, go find me all the massacres at malls in france and let's do a side by side comparison or else gun owners just shut the fuck up and admit you are wrong, big time.
what they really do not have is a bunch of gun owning gun defenders who crazily think you can have a few hundred million guns all over, and be safe.
once again, no NRA owners stopped this shooter. nope, they almost never do. becuase obviously, guns do not make us safe, they make us unsafe. why do you think the earp bros. banned guns in town? they were more civilized than we are today.
and the second amendment. don't get me started. you have to admit, we can ban you and I from owning nukes, yet clearly nukes are "arms" are they not? well then, it lets the government ban classes of arms. so it would let the govt. ban classes of handguns, private ownership of assault rifles etc., though perhaps it would require govt. to allow highly limited and highly licensed and regulated gun ownership. like in canada or england or other sane places without this god damend crazy violence fostered and enabled by the nra and the gun owners we got here.
seriously, go find me all the massacres at malls in france and let's do a side by side comparison or else gun owners just shut the fuck up and admit you are wrong, big time.
4
This is in my home town- I have been to this mall a hundred times. Other locals are shocked- this is a very quiet, chill neighborhood, nothing exceptional about the mall itself.
7
@5
Now now, Cato is a faithful and loving member of the Slog community. If what she says in poor taste, it's only a mere reflection of the often poor taste that is exhibited by The Stranger. So f you two could kiss and make up, I would be oh so sloggy giddy.
Now now, Cato is a faithful and loving member of the Slog community. If what she says in poor taste, it's only a mere reflection of the often poor taste that is exhibited by The Stranger. So f you two could kiss and make up, I would be oh so sloggy giddy.
10
"Only" two people killed this time. And that's the good news.
Can we please take our country back from the gun fetishists?
Can we please take our country back from the gun fetishists?
13
Yanks never grow tired of this shit. No shooting will ever be the one that results in any positive change or reduction of gun fatalities, because in the minds of people who use guns for purposes other than for hunting game or for security in rural areas, American freedom will perish. Barf.
The only conversation Americans are willing to have about guns is "how long until the next shooting?"
The only conversation Americans are willing to have about guns is "how long until the next shooting?"
15
@5, and your retort was from 5th grade. But then most of your retorts on Slog are from 5th grade.
You should go back and finish your homework sonny.
You should go back and finish your homework sonny.
16
But seriously gang..we were a little shy on people being trampled to death on Black Friday...this must be the NRA's way of making up for the lower than usual body count for the holidays.
20
@17,
Ah, I guess that's a fair way to interpret that. I always figured the "mass" in "mass shooting" meant "massive amounts of casualties" and not "massive amounts of ammunition spent".
Ah, I guess that's a fair way to interpret that. I always figured the "mass" in "mass shooting" meant "massive amounts of casualties" and not "massive amounts of ammunition spent".
21
@9 fuck you all to hell asshole. this is exactly the kind of stoopid moronic drivel espoused by the gun loving gun owners who are to b lame. let me work it through your god damned stupid skull.
shooting: a gerund, also a noun, refers to the act of shooting a gun.
therefore shooting your gun off spraying a crowd and causing a few hundred to flee in panic you asshole moron, is a fucking mass shooting. he shot and even aimed at masses of people you stupid dipshit.
okay, now that you have the explanation, admit you were wrong and it's morons like you that are enabling this carnage because guns don't make us safe, word quibbling a bout guns the way the gun ownbers loooooove to do doesn't make us safe, and it will only be when we get rid of a few hundred fucking mllion guns we got all over that we will be safe... and @20 you're a stupid douchebag too. and really assholes, if we were more careful and said "ATTEMPTED mass shooting" you would not really give a shit would you so stop your god damning fucking posing bullshit. it's people like you who make us unsafe. just fucking shut the fuck up.
shooting: a gerund, also a noun, refers to the act of shooting a gun.
therefore shooting your gun off spraying a crowd and causing a few hundred to flee in panic you asshole moron, is a fucking mass shooting. he shot and even aimed at masses of people you stupid dipshit.
okay, now that you have the explanation, admit you were wrong and it's morons like you that are enabling this carnage because guns don't make us safe, word quibbling a bout guns the way the gun ownbers loooooove to do doesn't make us safe, and it will only be when we get rid of a few hundred fucking mllion guns we got all over that we will be safe... and @20 you're a stupid douchebag too. and really assholes, if we were more careful and said "ATTEMPTED mass shooting" you would not really give a shit would you so stop your god damning fucking posing bullshit. it's people like you who make us unsafe. just fucking shut the fuck up.
22
Other countries may not have as many shootings, but Anders Breivik was no slouch. Crazy lone wolf is rarely preventable.
23
I'll say it again: drag in the nearest NRA members by the ears and make them clean up the crime scene. Give them mops and make them clean up the blood and urine and excrement; make them haul out the dead weight of the victims to the paddy wagon.
24
How long before the first claims that if guns were illegal he just would have gone in and started killing people with a knife. Or, GASP, a baseball bat! And you don't see anyone trying to ban THOSE. Oh, and cars kill way more people than guns so why don't we ban cars too! And you know how many people die from heart disease? You gonna ban soda too? Oh, wait, what? They kind of did that in New York? Uh... what were we talking about again?
25
@21,
Haha, guess the headline isn't the only thing overblown. Herpaderp much?
9, 20, and this post are the same person btw. I'm no gun nut, I just had an honest (though admittedly snarky) inquiry about the phrase. Never mind how you think two comments on an alt weekly's blog "contribute to enabling this carnage" and "make us all unsafe".
Not that I could give a shit about this shooting anyway (plenty more horrific things happen on a daily basis, I should care just because it's sorta-kinda-nearby-moreso-than-other-tragedies-but-not-really?). Or that I give a shit about aiding you in magically making all the guns in the world disappear thereby "making us all safe" somehow (because really, there aren't any other dangers facing us).
Autist/troll fight....GO!
Haha, guess the headline isn't the only thing overblown. Herpaderp much?
9, 20, and this post are the same person btw. I'm no gun nut, I just had an honest (though admittedly snarky) inquiry about the phrase. Never mind how you think two comments on an alt weekly's blog "contribute to enabling this carnage" and "make us all unsafe".
Not that I could give a shit about this shooting anyway (plenty more horrific things happen on a daily basis, I should care just because it's sorta-kinda-nearby-moreso-than-other-tragedies-but-not-really?). Or that I give a shit about aiding you in magically making all the guns in the world disappear thereby "making us all safe" somehow (because really, there aren't any other dangers facing us).
Autist/troll fight....GO!
26
@18, brilliant. Do you remember Cato's previous avatar? To put it simply, it was much dorkier than the current one.
27
OH WOW!
Another shooting in a gun free zone.
Dow did that happen? Didn't the murder know he was not supposed to bring guns into the mall.
Hurry, let's exploit this tragedy for political means.
@23
I have moves more bodies than you will ever see so spare me your righteous indignation.
Another shooting in a gun free zone.
Dow did that happen? Didn't the murder know he was not supposed to bring guns into the mall.
Hurry, let's exploit this tragedy for political means.
@23
I have moves more bodies than you will ever see so spare me your righteous indignation.
28
OH WOW!
Another shooting in a gun free zone.
How did that happen? Didn't the murder know he was not supposed to bring guns into the mall.
Hurry, let's exploit this tragedy for political means.
@23
I have moves more bodies than you will ever see so spare me your righteous indignation.
Another shooting in a gun free zone.
How did that happen? Didn't the murder know he was not supposed to bring guns into the mall.
Hurry, let's exploit this tragedy for political means.
@23
I have moves more bodies than you will ever see so spare me your righteous indignation.
29
So lets say the guy bought his gun legally, how do we stop something like this? Seems best way is to ramp up the mental health facilities in this country.
31
@29 How do we stop it? How do we stop it? blah blah blah. Stop it? The gun nuts are so in control that our federal and state and local governments won't even run public service announcements on the risks of gun ownership or cautioning people to be concerned about friends and family with unusual emotional fluctuations who own a lot of guns. Add those two to my previous list of 10 reasonable policy responses and things we could do for any other health threat that we are not allowed to do in the case of guns because the gun nuts will not allow even a discussion. But screw them, if they want guns with no regulation, control, or warnings, then they have to accept this is the logical consequence of their choice and, hopefully, critics will keep pointing it out.
And, yes, Seattle14, better mental health support in our medical system would help a lot, but the politicians who carry water most vigorously for the gun nut lobby are the same ones who work hardest to make it difficult to get healthcare for anyone but the wealthy.
Frickin' gun nuts are such woosy wallowers in their own sense of victomhood, and such cowerers in their paranoid fear of society, that they think there is actually a political movement against them. I wish.
And, yes, Seattle14, better mental health support in our medical system would help a lot, but the politicians who carry water most vigorously for the gun nut lobby are the same ones who work hardest to make it difficult to get healthcare for anyone but the wealthy.
Frickin' gun nuts are such woosy wallowers in their own sense of victomhood, and such cowerers in their paranoid fear of society, that they think there is actually a political movement against them. I wish.
32
@ 27, 28: i'm sure a body-totin american like you doesn't let a puny sign stop him from protectin the women and children and us beta males with your vast arsenal and lethal skillz.
33
Lord knows I'm no fan of guns. I think the men who are really into them would find more success with a penis pump, and the women who are into them should invest in strap-ons.
However, these sorts of events have much more to do with mental health than they do with firearms. And if this turns out to be yet another young man who someone has decided to prescribe anti-depressants to, instead of dealing with his emotional problems, I just don't know what.
However, these sorts of events have much more to do with mental health than they do with firearms. And if this turns out to be yet another young man who someone has decided to prescribe anti-depressants to, instead of dealing with his emotional problems, I just don't know what.
34
On the isolated focus on mental health: All I know is that when I was growing up, it wasn't common for people to have huge gun collections with 30 round clips. Most folks might have a pistol and a couple of hunting rifles, with maybe one or two additionally that they got from some relative who died. Now if he wants to, Cato can shoot Yoko Ono in the back with a 30 round clip he buys at a discount at a local store. Hearing the modern gun nut talk about their guns is a surreal experience. When I was a kid, people enjoyed reading about military weapons, now huge numbers of individuals want to believe they need to own them and every small town police force thinks it needs a fleet of armored cars or small tanks.
How is a mentally ill person going to be immune to this societal trend of guns being a substitute for financial and emotional security. Especially, if they rarely hear the message that guns aren't the panacea great equalizer they are led to believe.
How is a mentally ill person going to be immune to this societal trend of guns being a substitute for financial and emotional security. Especially, if they rarely hear the message that guns aren't the panacea great equalizer they are led to believe.
35
I'd like to see my fellow liberals present, in detail, what they propose to solve the problem. Blaming the NRA just isn't gonna cut it.
@10
I'd be interested to see your list. I'll look it up.
@10
I'd be interested to see your list. I'll look it up.
36
P.S.
I find it amazing and disturbing that two of the last three SLOG entries are about someone getting shot in Oregon when there's nary a word about the kneecapping and subsequent death of union labor in Michigan.
Organized labor just got killed in the cradle of organized labor! And guns are the story? Not a freaking word about Michigan...
Sheesh.
I find it amazing and disturbing that two of the last three SLOG entries are about someone getting shot in Oregon when there's nary a word about the kneecapping and subsequent death of union labor in Michigan.
Organized labor just got killed in the cradle of organized labor! And guns are the story? Not a freaking word about Michigan...
Sheesh.
37
There's two ideas out there that I think need to be combined, and acted on. One is rather old- I learned of it some time ago.
That one is make the NRA become the enforcement arm of the ACLU. You nutjobs want to "protect your God-given rights"? Then do a goddamn service to your country and help the ACLU protect EVERYONE's rights.
The second one was first mentioned in the previous thread. Make the NRA nuts go clean up the mess every goddamn time there's a mass shooting. Make them clean up the piss and brains and blood. Make them get on their hands and knees and scrub.
You want to own thirty assault rifles with night-vision scopes? Fine. But you gotta serve your country while also helping those less able to help themselves.
That one is make the NRA become the enforcement arm of the ACLU. You nutjobs want to "protect your God-given rights"? Then do a goddamn service to your country and help the ACLU protect EVERYONE's rights.
The second one was first mentioned in the previous thread. Make the NRA nuts go clean up the mess every goddamn time there's a mass shooting. Make them clean up the piss and brains and blood. Make them get on their hands and knees and scrub.
You want to own thirty assault rifles with night-vision scopes? Fine. But you gotta serve your country while also helping those less able to help themselves.
38
@35 -- if we ban all guns now then in a couple hundred years when the existing gun stock is mostly non-functional we'll have far fewer shootings.
Unless the shooters have access to military weapons.
Unless the shooters have access to military weapons.
40
Gun owners, don't forget to thank these two victims. They just sacrificed more than you ever will in the name of gun "rights."
41
@35. Are you dense? There are tens, hundreds of different police suggestions, from minor to major. The NRA has so crushed the politicians who want to even discuss them that they simply don't. The problem is that it is never enough for the NRA: guns are easier and easier to get, as are concealed weapons permits, ammo, and giant clips. Plus, the NRA pushes legislatures like Florida to enact more laws that protect shooters from prosecution and bar doctors from talking with their patients about gun safety. Where have you been hiding? And the world of gun nuts is made up of more than just the NRA.
Policy question one /500: Do you support the sale of 30 round clips?
2/500: do you support encouraging people to talk about guns during the mental health portion of their check ups?
I'm not even an activist, but I could sit down and name a hundred policies that are NOT banning guns but that are opposed vehemently by the NRA. Hell, we, can't even hold the line against their efforts to increase and normalize the crazy. They want people to (be able to) carry concealed weapons literally everywhere, including the arming of elementary school teachers. They actually get legislatures to write bills like this. But watch the unholy release of demons from well funded hell if you want to have a public educational campaign...
Shit, you have the internet. Go online and look up gun control on wikipedia, or gun regulation, or something. You are being a concern troll here by maintaining your deliberate ignorance.
Policy question one /500: Do you support the sale of 30 round clips?
2/500: do you support encouraging people to talk about guns during the mental health portion of their check ups?
I'm not even an activist, but I could sit down and name a hundred policies that are NOT banning guns but that are opposed vehemently by the NRA. Hell, we, can't even hold the line against their efforts to increase and normalize the crazy. They want people to (be able to) carry concealed weapons literally everywhere, including the arming of elementary school teachers. They actually get legislatures to write bills like this. But watch the unholy release of demons from well funded hell if you want to have a public educational campaign...
Shit, you have the internet. Go online and look up gun control on wikipedia, or gun regulation, or something. You are being a concern troll here by maintaining your deliberate ignorance.
43
Minor point, but the traffic tweets are there so folks can stay out of the way of emergency vehicles, not to signal the apocalypse.
Blaming mass shootings on The Crazy rather than the guns is the same as blaming The Crazy on society, the education system, whatever. Take guns from The Crazy and you don't have mass shootings, it's that simple.
Blaming mass shootings on The Crazy rather than the guns is the same as blaming The Crazy on society, the education system, whatever. Take guns from The Crazy and you don't have mass shootings, it's that simple.
44
Is it just me but everyone of the random gun rampages are carried out by males?
Granted, most murder suicides involving children involve their mothers. However the victims are known.
It always seems to be an argument over banning firearms. Everyone agrees that mental illness is a major factor. But why do males seem to think it is necessary to take as many others with them in a blaze of suicidal glory? The argument over the right to bare arms always seems to shut down any further conversation.
Granted, most murder suicides involving children involve their mothers. However the victims are known.
It always seems to be an argument over banning firearms. Everyone agrees that mental illness is a major factor. But why do males seem to think it is necessary to take as many others with them in a blaze of suicidal glory? The argument over the right to bare arms always seems to shut down any further conversation.
45
@44: We have testicles, which secrete androgens, which are responsible for guys being more prone to aggression than girls. (Girls have androgens in their systems too, just not nearly as much.)
46
For the hand ringers, what exactly does "Responsible" gun ownership look like?
What do I need to do to prove to you I am responsible?
What do I need to do to prove to you I am responsible?
47
Going to have to do something about guns in this country or this is going to be a commonplace event as in...Someone's shooting people at the mall!....Yeah, what else is new?
Or, somehow we are going to have to figure out how to keep unbalanced people away from lethal weapons. Perhaps shoot them in their crib?
OK, NRA, which of these two choices sound easier to do?
Or, somehow we are going to have to figure out how to keep unbalanced people away from lethal weapons. Perhaps shoot them in their crib?
OK, NRA, which of these two choices sound easier to do?
48
Re: Mall Santa's comments, I wouldn't be too hard on him. A lot of jobs depend on people buying and selling crap to each other, and if people are afraid to shop at malls, sales will obviously suffer. It seems in poor taste to think about the economic aspects of this when people are dead, their families are torn apart, and who knows how many ordinary shoppers (not to mention mall employees, cops, and emergency workers) have experienced trauma which might stay with them for the rest of their lives. But the economic impact of something like this is real. Retail is a big chunk of our economy, and the holiday shopping orgy is vital for retailers to stay profitable.
49
@47, the former. Gun control is impossible in this country. The battle has been lost. The gun kooks can have all the guns they want, and they can accidentally blow their babies' faces off with impunity, and they can shoot a bunch of people in the mall whenever they want, and they can act out their murder-suicides anytime they want, and thirty or forty more people will die from gun violence tomorrow and the next day and the day after that, forever. And nothing is ever going to change. We're not even allowed to talk about it. We're just supposed to sit and pretend to grieve again, when all we really are is numb.
Own guns? Fine. That's your right. Bully for you. But you're a fucking piece of shit. YOU are the problem. You are with the shooter; we are against him. If every rational person in America started shunning gun owners, and not allowing them into their houses, maybe people would start to change.
Own guns? Fine. That's your right. Bully for you. But you're a fucking piece of shit. YOU are the problem. You are with the shooter; we are against him. If every rational person in America started shunning gun owners, and not allowing them into their houses, maybe people would start to change.
51
@49: I think your point would be better taken if you made the distinction between owning a gun in a city and owning one in rural areas. Simply put, there are many people living in rural areas who need a rifle to protect themselves from the natural world and its dangers. People who live too far from any police station to rely on it. These people are not pieces of shit, and do not murder others. I am related to many of them who live in the mountains of Pennsylvania.
Also, as you well know, many Canadians own guns, but they do not have these problems.
But there is really no reason to own a handgun or assault rifle, especially if you live in a city. Single shot rifle for hunting would be allowed if that is your thing.
You are correct that the battle to ban guns is lost, but there is stil hope in banning the kinds of weapons that make these massacres so easy. But since it is a losing battle for both political parties, no one is interested.
Also, as you well know, many Canadians own guns, but they do not have these problems.
But there is really no reason to own a handgun or assault rifle, especially if you live in a city. Single shot rifle for hunting would be allowed if that is your thing.
You are correct that the battle to ban guns is lost, but there is stil hope in banning the kinds of weapons that make these massacres so easy. But since it is a losing battle for both political parties, no one is interested.
52
This homeowner is satisfied and alive because he owned a gun. One punk sent straight to hell as well. Can't beat feel good stories like this:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Charg…
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Charg…
53
@51 Virtually no one hunts with a "single shot rifle," at least not since the mid-19th century. Other than double-barreled rifles (rare in North America), virtually all 20th century hunting rifles have 3 to 6-shot magazines.
54
@53: Well, I really just meant bolt, single or double-action, as opposed to rapid or burst fire...I am aware that I am only about one of five people who knows much about guns on these threads, and so was using more generalized language. One shot per trigger pull, small clip size. Your critique is certainly valid however.
Also, that was part of the partial weapons ban I was suggesting in cities. Slow firing, long barrel rifles only. The handguns and assault rifles massacre people, not slow firing weapons.
However, I kind of like the idea of bringing back the single shot. Safer for people, fairer for the game.
Also, that was part of the partial weapons ban I was suggesting in cities. Slow firing, long barrel rifles only. The handguns and assault rifles massacre people, not slow firing weapons.
However, I kind of like the idea of bringing back the single shot. Safer for people, fairer for the game.
55
@35
Ok. In order to get a gun you have to pass a psychological screening to get a permit. This permit will expire after two years in which case you'll have to sit down with a shrink to prove you haven't degenerated mentally since then.
Make it where anyone who owns a gun has to have this permit, no matter how they purchase the gun. Make sure that there are very serious penalties for selling guns to people who don't have the permit.
It won't fix the problem 100% but it will make it a lot harder for mentally unstable people to get their hands on guns.
Ok. In order to get a gun you have to pass a psychological screening to get a permit. This permit will expire after two years in which case you'll have to sit down with a shrink to prove you haven't degenerated mentally since then.
Make it where anyone who owns a gun has to have this permit, no matter how they purchase the gun. Make sure that there are very serious penalties for selling guns to people who don't have the permit.
It won't fix the problem 100% but it will make it a lot harder for mentally unstable people to get their hands on guns.
56
@55, no, it won't. The black market in guns is comprised mostly of guns that were purchased legally by supposedly sane people and then stolen from them.
The gun that was used to murder my grandparents was taken from my grandpa's hand in a struggle, and afterwards used for many other crimes, including other murders.
The real fact: the desire to own a gun is evidence on the face of it that the person with the desire is too mentally unstable to be permitted to own one.
The gun that was used to murder my grandparents was taken from my grandpa's hand in a struggle, and afterwards used for many other crimes, including other murders.
The real fact: the desire to own a gun is evidence on the face of it that the person with the desire is too mentally unstable to be permitted to own one.
57
@56 You mean, like that notorious psychopath Eleanor Roosevelt?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yfQ32hZ5TA0/TS…
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yfQ32hZ5TA0/TS…
58
@57, Eleanor Roosevelt has been dead for fifty years. No, I don't think she should be allowed to buy a handgun in 2012.
I also don't see what relevance a photo taken a hundred years ago has to today.
I also don't see what relevance a photo taken a hundred years ago has to today.
59
I reject your implied claim that enjoying bullseye target shooting as a hobby is a guarantee of mental instability, either 100 years ago or today.
60
Fnarf must be really dismayed by how many Democrats own handguns. Your opinions are so left field you might as well be on Pluto. Guns won. See this month's Atlantic article.
61
@55 -- I'm against a registry of people who own guns. I'm against an agency tasked with checking up on those people every two years. That's just silly-talk when you start to do the math.
When my grandfather dies and leaves my cousin his collection of antique rifles, should my cousin be forced to take a test before he moves the gun safe into his basement and lets it collect dust?
We either find some way to make ammo very expensive (and re-loaders hard to get) or we ban the manufacture and sale of new guns and wait the hundreds of years it will take for the old guns to stop working.
And we restructure our economy in such a way that we don't employ hundreds of thousands of people in military.
Until then, we should get used to gun-related crime and gun-related murder. We've gotten used to car-related crime and car-related murder.
I'm not so sure there's much difference between the two, except for the gun's innate ability to terrify.
When my grandfather dies and leaves my cousin his collection of antique rifles, should my cousin be forced to take a test before he moves the gun safe into his basement and lets it collect dust?
We either find some way to make ammo very expensive (and re-loaders hard to get) or we ban the manufacture and sale of new guns and wait the hundreds of years it will take for the old guns to stop working.
And we restructure our economy in such a way that we don't employ hundreds of thousands of people in military.
Until then, we should get used to gun-related crime and gun-related murder. We've gotten used to car-related crime and car-related murder.
I'm not so sure there's much difference between the two, except for the gun's innate ability to terrify.
62
@60 -- Washington tends pro-gun and pro-Democrat. This makes for good laughs when the Republican trolls start going on about how the R's are better armed.
63
What makes you think society isn't responsible for The Crazy? Many mental illnesses are caused by outside factors, post-traumatic stress is the most obvious one. Ever heard of the work of R.D. Lang? He treated several people suffering from mental illness (schizophrenia, I believe) through group talk therapy. That therapy made them functional again and able to go back into the real world. Within six months, they were back in the mental hospital.
Society is more than capable of driving people crazy.
Blaming mass shootings on The Crazy rather than the guns is the same as blaming The Crazy on society, the education system, whatever.
What makes you think society isn't responsible for The Crazy? Many mental illnesses are caused by outside factors, post-traumatic stress is the most obvious one. Ever heard of the work of R.D. Lang? He treated several people suffering from mental illness (schizophrenia, I believe) through group talk therapy. That therapy made them functional again and able to go back into the real world. Within six months, they were back in the mental hospital.
Society is more than capable of driving people crazy.
64
@56: I am so sorry about your grandparents Fnarf. It is no wonder you are so passionate about this issue since it has hit so closely to home.
65
@61
Unfortunately "suck it up buttercup" is not really an acceptable answer and I'll tell you why.
TL;DR: If there is a constant, significant risk of some crazy with an AR-15 mowing people down in common areas we won't be able to have a community(or be able to really leave our home). Which we need to have a "free community".
Long Version: There is a lot of pressure in the United States to reduce the commons(please note, I am not saying this pressure is organized as much as a consequence of consumerism, the internet, etc), the area where people can freely gather and associate with one another. Without a commons you don't really have a community, you just have a group of individuals who share the same zip code. Unless we have a way to make sure that people aren't going to be cut down by a lunatic with an AR-15 having an actual functioning commons will be impossible.
Unfortunately "suck it up buttercup" is not really an acceptable answer and I'll tell you why.
TL;DR: If there is a constant, significant risk of some crazy with an AR-15 mowing people down in common areas we won't be able to have a community(or be able to really leave our home). Which we need to have a "free community".
Long Version: There is a lot of pressure in the United States to reduce the commons(please note, I am not saying this pressure is organized as much as a consequence of consumerism, the internet, etc), the area where people can freely gather and associate with one another. Without a commons you don't really have a community, you just have a group of individuals who share the same zip code. Unless we have a way to make sure that people aren't going to be cut down by a lunatic with an AR-15 having an actual functioning commons will be impossible.
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@64 Though I imagine had his Grandparents survived that terrible incident family reunions would've been very awkward. What with Fnarf stridently shunning his grandfather, the gun owner.
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@67 Oh. Yeah. For sure. I am.
But then I'm not the one proposing we solve the gun issue by shunning 160 million people and constantly publicizing a family tragedy as a rhetorical cudgel.
But then I'm not the one proposing we solve the gun issue by shunning 160 million people and constantly publicizing a family tragedy as a rhetorical cudgel.
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Uh oh, looks like it was an angry hipster. Angry, no doubt, that his organic artisanal body piercing business failed. Decided to get the "haves".
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