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1
And would you apply that to fishing too? How about killing animals for preparing meals?
Posted by GermanSausage on December 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM · Report this
2
If you're not going to eat it, leave it the hell alone.
Posted by originalcinner on December 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM · Report this
3
Christ, now I have to defend/explain hunting to Mudede? Seriously, this guy is against more things than the Church! You know what, let's start a pool, "What Crazy Stance is Charles Mudede Going to Adopt Next, Just for Shock Value?" Ten bucks to participate, I'm going with "Warehouses are tools of the Rural, and anathema to the City."
Posted by Brandon J. on December 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM · Report this
Queen of Sleaze 4
Agree with @2. My SO hunts. We use everything on the rare occasions he actually gets something. I have no problem with hunting, obviously. The hunters I've known who hunt for sustenance have great respect for the lives that are taken to feed their families. Sport hunting is another matter. The people who sport hunt are jackasses and I agree, there is something wrong with them. They have no respect for the animal or for life itself.
Posted by Queen of Sleaze on December 12, 2012 at 9:05 AM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 5
Hmm. Good fucking luck with that one.

You've become a charicature, Chuck. It's funny, but it's also kinda sad.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on December 12, 2012 at 9:27 AM · Report this
6
oh chuck

you little troll you.....
Posted by ft6787g4f on December 12, 2012 at 9:31 AM · Report this
7
What about trolling for sport? Did you think these internets were created just for your enjoyment?
Posted by RonK, Seattle on December 12, 2012 at 9:31 AM · Report this
8
Well the rurals would have even less to do if Charles were in charge...
Posted by ryanmm on December 12, 2012 at 9:55 AM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 9
So, Charles, are you a vegan, or a hypocrite?
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 10:01 AM · Report this
evilvolus 10
Christian's got nothing to do with it. I barely care enough about other human beings to avoid hunting THEM for sport!
Posted by evilvolus on December 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 11
Hey, if I see any flying reindeer, I'm shooting the fuck out of them. Viva the War on Christmas!
Posted by Pope Peabrain on December 12, 2012 at 10:15 AM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 12
Hunting for pleasure being outlawed in CR will work there as it's a small nation that makes a huge living off "eco-tourism". No forest animals, no tourists. 11% of the nation is in national tropical forest park designation as I recall. America has a much smaller percentage in National park and we don't make a living from Eco-tourism. The same law would not work here.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on December 12, 2012 at 10:29 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 13
I think some people are confusing "hunting for sport" with "hunting for food." One need not be any kind of animal rights activist to be against the former.
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 12, 2012 at 10:34 AM · Report this
14
If you agree with @2, you agree with Charles. I agree with both of them. If you aren't going to eat it, don't shoot it. To many people hunting for trophies and discard the rest of the animal. Poor rural people who eat sqirrels they shoot to supplement their diet, fine. Even people like some of my poor but not hungry relatives who shoot deer in season and then use the vension throughout the year for cooking, fine. Rich people who just want a 12-point buck to stuff and put on their wall; Fuck 'em.
Posted by justalurker2 on December 12, 2012 at 10:35 AM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 15
Yeah, killing anything for sport is barbaric.

Doesn't surprise me at all that humans do it. Humans are primitive and unevolved.

Of course, there's no practicable way to enforce a ban against hunting for sport.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on December 12, 2012 at 10:41 AM · Report this
16
I grew up hunting and fishing and all that. Some of the best memories of my life. Also: Hunting conservation is why we have any wilderness at all.

That said hunting is not what it used to be. It's not walking out into the woods with your grandpa's 30.06 Springfield. It's hundreds of cammo clad assholes swarming into the woods with four wheelers and Fifth Wheelers and portable genies and blowing shit away. Leaving half of it to rot. Polluting and littering. That's the majority of hunting now. And why my family quit it.

And the fact is the hunting of predator species for sport has intese negative consequences for the environment - and Charles is right, it's fucking barbaric.
Posted by tkc on December 12, 2012 at 10:49 AM · Report this
Will in Seattle 17
I never hunt for sport.

I hunt to kill things.

And if they're not humans, eat them.

That's not sport. Sport is richie rich yuppies pretending they can get away from starving thousands of fellow humans to death by financial trickery by blowing out the brains of animals, and then not eating them.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on December 12, 2012 at 10:51 AM · Report this
18
@15 You might no be able to out right ban sport hunting but you can regulate it much better.
Posted by tkc on December 12, 2012 at 10:51 AM · Report this
Will in Seattle 19
@13 for Insightful Post of the Dang Why Not Post 12 on 12/12/12 win.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on December 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM · Report this
Jaymz 20
The "enjoyment" Christians receive from hunting animals is not the thrill of the kill, walking away from the unused trophy carcass with a mountable head, but communing with nature and fully utilizing God's gifts and participating in the life cycle. Sounds corny, but actually true (and not a religious issue anyway, as mentioned above.)

I don't hunt - can't stomach it myself - but understand those who do (like my brother) and who do so with the proper reverence for, and use of, the life they've taken.
Posted by Jaymz on December 12, 2012 at 10:55 AM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 21
Perhaps by "sport" ya'all mean "trophy hunting?" I'll offer the following definitions:

subsistence hunting--you are able to kill, transport and butcher an animal for an all-inclusive price cheaper than meat at your supermarket

sport hunting--you eat what you kill but it costs more than paying someone else to do the killing for you and bringing it to the store. Parts of the animal may or may not be retained as trophies.

trophy hunting--you mount the head on your wall or take a photo of the dead animal, and ignore the carcass

I've engaged in sport hunting by this definition, over thirty years ago. I don't care to do it any more, but I think unless you are a vegan, to be opposed to sport hunting is the height of hypocrisy. People who eat meat should occasionally kill and butcher an animal with their own hands, so they can't pretend they don't know what happens when they buy boneless chicken breasts.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 11:13 AM · Report this
keshmeshi 22
@21,

The Free Dictionary defines sport hunting as: hunting without collection of a food or other commercial product; hunting for trophy or prize.

Maybe you should calm down.
Posted by keshmeshi on December 12, 2012 at 11:24 AM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 23
@22 I assure you, I'm very calm in my assertion that carnivores who scorn hunters are towering hypocrites.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 11:42 AM · Report this
24
Hunter logic = I hunt not because its fun, but because I absolutely require venison/quail/other wild game in my diet in order to survive.

SMRT, hyuk!

PS librulls r dumlol
Posted by K on December 12, 2012 at 11:44 AM · Report this
25
@21 I think both définitions work. But yes, "trophy" hunting is abhorrent.

Exclusively hunting for a trophy used to be generally looked down on by most hunters back in the day. But it's not any more. I think Because so many hunters don't know how to properly dress animals they kill or in many cases are just to lazy to haul out anything but the rack or head.

FI: Three years ago on the Blackfoot Creek Reservoir over a two day hike we found three - THREE - shot elk left to rot along the same reviene. Disgusted we quartered one, rather than just waste it, but with only three of us (one 77 year old) getting out a 400lb elk out on foot was pretty challenging and even we had to leave most of it. Point is none of those animals should have been shot if the intent was to not eat them. Barbaric.
Posted by tkc on December 12, 2012 at 11:48 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 26
@ 21, I've never seen sport hunting defined that way.
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 12, 2012 at 11:49 AM · Report this
27
How would you enforce this, though? Have park rangers do ballistics tests on animals that were hunted and their carcasses left in the forest to figure out who killed them? Tracking hunters to their homes to figure out what they did with the body? I'm against hunting animals you don't eat, but this doesn't seem like it would be very practical.

It might be different in Costa Rica - they're a poor country that lives off of tourism, so I doubt there are many Costa Ricans who would kill something and not eat it, but maybe some American tourists would, and maybe this was really about making hunting tourism illegal, which makes sense.

What I would rather see is a law that bans American citizens from hunting endangered animals outside the borders of the US. I really get angry when I see that powerful people (the CEOs of Jimmy Johns and Go Daddy, for example) can go to Africa and kill elephants. Hunt an elephant anywhere in the world? You should go to jail when you come back.
Posted by redemma on December 12, 2012 at 12:05 PM · Report this
treacle 28
The human population is over 7 BILLION now... nearly twice what it was when I was born. And while the population rate is allegedly slowing down, the population will still continue to rise for many years to come.

Collectively, we exert an incredible pressure on the natural environment... just because everyone wants housing, or to eat, or a car... or to hunt.

Collectively, we are decimating fish stocks in both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans because we want to be able to simply eat tasty fish.

We cannot afford to hunt for sport (or 'trophies', as @21 defines it). There's just too many of us. Too many people, and too few animals.

Microbes, on the other hand, there are plenty of those.
Posted by treacle on December 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 29
@23,

You're not calm in your assertion that sport hunting is done for food. Mudede was obviously taking *sport* hunters to task, and your reaction is/was irrational.
Posted by keshmeshi on December 12, 2012 at 12:32 PM · Report this
Jaymz 30
An interesting side issue seems to be percolating here: Is it okay for non-endangered wild animals to be killed (without damaging the environment) and eaten by non-subsistence hunters who could get meat much cheaper elsewhere from animals grown specifically for that purpose, similar to the gardener who grows and eats tomatoes at a much higher cost than "store bought"?

I say "yes" - but others will draw a line and say it is never okay to kill wild animals, period. This seems to be where the conversation ends and the participants move on to something else.
Posted by Jaymz on December 12, 2012 at 1:05 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 31
the 9 wolves killed outside yellowstone so far this fall were for subsistence, right?
Posted by Max Solomon on December 12, 2012 at 1:08 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 32
@ 30, I'm interested in your claims that such food is "more expensive." (Both hunted meat and tomatoes.) While there are undoubtedly costs associated with hunted meat (transportation, ammunition, hunting license, and hunting attire, storage, and possibly having a pro butcher process it for you, among others), I think someone taking their limit would still likely come out with meat that's cheaper per pound than what you can get at the store. Well, at least cheaper than ethically raised meat, anyway - that feedlot n hormone stuff does come pretty cheap, albeit at non-monetary costs.

But who says garden tomatoes are more expensive than store-bought ones? That's just silly.
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 12, 2012 at 1:10 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 33
@30,

What defines affordable though? Yes, you can get shit quality meat (often with real shit included for free) for really cheap, but good quality meat costs serious money. Same thing with tomatoes. Especially in terms of time invested, it's much more expensive to grow your own tomatoes than buy the hydroponically grown, slave-picked tomatoes at the grocery store, but the quality is better, and your conscience is clear.
Posted by keshmeshi on December 12, 2012 at 1:32 PM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 34
@29 I was attempting @21 to determine calmly if people were talking past each other due to different definitions of "sport hunting." Until you clearly define what YOU mean by sport hunting, I don't even know what we're arguing about.

I don't see why my distinction between sport and trophy hunting is "irrational." If you harvest and eat an animal at a premium price, you can't claim you need to do it for subsistence, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people would agree it's less scornful and wasteful than caping the head to put on your wall and leaving the body to rot.

I was feeling pretty calm about this until five minutes ago!
8^(
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 1:53 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 35
@ 34, I think few people in America actually hunt out of subsistence, just as few people garden for that reason.

It's more simple, I think. Are you going to eat that deer? Then you're hunting for food. Are you not? Then you're hunting for sport.

I suppose there's some gray area in there, if the hunter isn't being very economical about eating the whole edible portions of the deer. (I'm reminded of the fact that bison were hunted just so that fine restaurants in New York could serve bison tongue - they literally left the entire carcass to rot. I would consider that to be sport hunting.)

That said, if one is consuming all or most of the edible portions, I don't think retaining the head for a trophy makes it sport. There isn't much else one can do with a deer head.
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 12, 2012 at 2:28 PM · Report this
wockyjockey 36
What about non-native animals that ravages the environment, like wild boars in the south? What about over population of deers which causes ecological problems, perhaps because our ancestors didn't like (or still don't like) their natural predators and have killed them all?

What about natural's own non-human consumption/recycling, i.e. letting scavengers like vultures or coyotes or even maggots to consume the carcass and return it to earth in a non-human intervened way?

Not as simple as it seems, my friends.

Posted by wockyjockey on December 12, 2012 at 2:57 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 37
@34,

In your very first comment, you accused Mudede of being a hypocrite, even though the context of his post *and* the generally accepted definition of sport hunting indicate that Mudede was talking about hunting for "fun" and not for food.

I stand by my assertion that that knee jerk assumption was irrational.
Posted by keshmeshi on December 12, 2012 at 3:14 PM · Report this
38
@34 It's best to just ignore him.
Posted by tkc on December 12, 2012 at 3:14 PM · Report this
39
Also: Hunting conservation is why we have any wilderness at all.

Most of the fake-o "progressive" environmentalists have no clue about this. Without hunting, you'd have only a fraction of the habitat conservation we do. If you like wetlands, better thank a duck hunter, because that's who saved the wetlands.

It's hundreds of cammo clad assholes swarming into the woods with four wheelers and Fifth Wheelers and portable genies and blowing shit away. Leaving half of it to rot. Polluting and littering. That's the majority of hunting now.

That's some of it, but not "the majority." It's a little like the corruption of professional sports. Do you write off baseball because of steroids, and cycling because of Lance Armstrong?

And the fact is the hunting of predator species for sport has intese negative consequences for the environment

Only if they're overhunted, which is why we have deparments of fish, game, and wildlife, and hunting and fishing licenses and regulations.

Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 3:32 PM · Report this
40
More "progressive" puritanism here. Chuckles and his "progressive" city readers don't like to hunt, therefore it should be banned. Good luck with that. I'm not going to be giving up my wolf, bear, goat, sheep, and beaver skins for a while, or that deer head mounted on the wall. The more Chuckles doesn't like it, the harder I'll laugh.
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 3:40 PM · Report this
41
#36 is right. It's not pretty to see a carcass in the woods, and wanton slaughter for just the sport (i.e., not even a trophy) is hard to emdorse. But the eagles, vultures, raccoons, mice, field rats, coyotes, and other critters don't usually object. Oh, and if you've ever seen the aftermath of a wolfpack attack on livestock, you'd know that human beings are not exactly the only animals who kill just for the hell of it.
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 3:50 PM · Report this
42
Yes, you can get shit quality meat (often with real shit included for free) for really cheap, but good quality meat costs serious money.

I buy my beef straight off the ranch. Grass-fed, no chemicals at any stage. $4/pound. I never make the trip just for the meat, so there's no extra transportation cost. If you want to pay $15 or $20 a pound at the yuppie farmers market, fine.
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 3:54 PM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 43
@36 There is no "generally accepted" definition of sport hunting. That was my point. I'm a (former) hunter, and I've never heard anyone define the term "sport hunting." If you Google the phrase, the first hit is from PETA, which is not exactly a mainstream source.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 4:01 PM · Report this
44
#43, good point about there not being a firm definition of "sport" hunting. Chuckles Mudede didn't offer one either, but he wants to ban it. The Seattle "progressive" is no less inclined than the Alaska wingnut to want to tell other people what they can and cannot do, even if they don't really know what "it" is.
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 4:19 PM · Report this
45
By the way, sometimes the "trophy" hunter takes more than the head. Ask any taxidermist. I've got a bear skin rug including the head, and a long head dress made from a wolf, which I can use when I want to do the "dances with wolves" thing.
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 4:22 PM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 46
Oh, fuck. Today I kinda agreed with something Lew Siffer wrote, and Mr. G agrees with me.

The Mayans were right: It's the Apocalypse.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 4:26 PM · Report this
47
#46, you turncoat pigfucker!
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 4:41 PM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 48
OK, I feel better now!
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on December 12, 2012 at 4:48 PM · Report this
Free Lunch 49
@43 - What about "hunting for sport," which is what Charles and the quote actually said? Doesn't that imply "hunting for other than food" to you?

But beside that point, don't you think "hunting for other than food" is what Charles actually MEANT? It looks a lot like you are deliberately misunderstanding him so as to put other words in his mouth.

(By the way, if you say "I have no idea what he meant," it will pretty much invalidate your extremely weird rant.)
Posted by Free Lunch on December 12, 2012 at 8:26 PM · Report this
venomlash 50
Killing needlessly is immoral. In my opinion, it is also immoral to eat animal flesh without being willing, if necessary, to kill it yourself. So many seem intent on dissociating carnivory from predation...
Posted by venomlash on December 12, 2012 at 10:31 PM · Report this
51
#49, what about hunting to thin out overpopulation or remove pests or get yourself a fur coat? And what's wrong with a bearskin rug? You haven't lived until you've fucked on a bearskin rug.
Posted by Mister G on December 12, 2012 at 11:47 PM · Report this
Jaymz 52
Thank you, venomlash @50, for finally bringing another opinion so clearly and succinctly. My point @30 was to ask whether cost or subsistence or religion or "sport" or anything else besides a personal moral code is a controlling factor in this discussion. Your response is clear - others not so much.
Posted by Jaymz on December 13, 2012 at 10:40 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 53
@50, My god, I can not even tell you how many people have told me that my shooting of deer (to eat) as a child and my butchering of hogs (to eat) as a teenager is horrid, while they themselves eat a cheeseburger.

Sometimes I do think that people imagine meat just falls from trees chopped up and wrapped in plastic and styrofoam.

If you eat meat and frown on these activities, you are a hypocrite who refuses to take personal responsibility for your actions, or accept the moral weight of them.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on December 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM · Report this
54
#50, if you don't write your own software, you have no moral right to use a computer.
Posted by Mister G on December 13, 2012 at 12:09 PM · Report this
Christampa 55
@54 - What a vague and irrelevant analogy you have there.
Posted by Christampa on December 13, 2012 at 6:34 PM · Report this
Captain Wiggette 56
Any carnivore not willing to kill and butcher the animal they are eating should be shot.

Also, all vegans should be shot on principle.
Posted by Captain Wiggette on December 13, 2012 at 9:55 PM · Report this
Ipso Facto 57
Good post, Mr. Mudede, I completely agree.

And while we're on the topic, lets not pretend for an instant that the killing of animals and the killing of humans are not interconnected and mutually-reinforcing.

A world in which killing animals for fun is acceptable is a world in which guns are fetishized, a world in which pop culture glorifies casual violence, a world in which war is rampant, a world in which animal rights advocates are branded "extremists", a world in which mass shootings are commonplace (feel free to add to this list).

These are all cultural expressions of violence and aggression. If we want any individual aspect to improve, we must work to remedy all such expressions of violence.

@50: "Killing needlessly is immoral."

I agree. Which is exactly why veganism is an ethical imperative. Humans not only survive on a nutritionally balanced vegan diet, we thrive (just ask this guy and this guy). In our world of modern agriculture and food distribution, humans have no need to kill animals at all.
Posted by Ipso Facto http://therealnews.com on December 14, 2012 at 4:02 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 58
@ 57, what happens to all the feeder animals if we all go vegan?
Posted by Matt from Denver on December 14, 2012 at 7:21 AM · Report this
59
#57, I prefer to taste my food. By the way, I dig your leather shoes.
Posted by Mister G on December 14, 2012 at 11:32 AM · Report this
60
Blue moon must be out, because Mudoodoo is making sense again.

He is 100% right.

I can't belive how many inbred morons missed, or willfully ignored this "for nothing more than sport is just"...

It's not difficult to comprehend what he is conveying.
Posted by joemomma on December 14, 2012 at 12:25 PM · Report this
61
But this is really stupid. There are loads of animal populations that are much higher than they should be but would be out of control if not for hunting. I don't know about Washington, but in California, we have way more wild turkeys than we need, we have red foxes, which outcompete the native gray foxes, we have non-native deer that over-run everything, we have wild hogs that destroy the environment for everything else... maybe you should talk to a park ranger before you ban any kind of hunting. If anything, we should hunt MORE than we currently are.

I kind of wish no one owned guns though, and you could just check one out from a "gun library" or something at the place where hunting is appropriate.
Posted by alguna_rubia on December 15, 2012 at 12:33 PM · Report this

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