Slog Comments
Obama's Speech at Newtown Vigil
3
The tide has finally turned on this issue. A nerve has been hit raw in middle America.
Meaningful gun control legislation is coming. The republicans can block it at their peril. They can line up politicians to make idiotic statements about the fact we need to arm our teachers (but not give them combat pay, of course) or that the solution to 300 million guns is 600 million guns. These lines will be the new 'rape sperm' poison that will cast the republican party as the party of idiocy in the 2014 election.
It shouldn't be this way. This shouldn't be a political issue, it is a public health issues. But if you are going to force middle American families to choose sides, then Democrats should happily rejoice that the NRA will further move the GOP towards permanent minority status.
Meaningful gun control legislation is coming. The republicans can block it at their peril. They can line up politicians to make idiotic statements about the fact we need to arm our teachers (but not give them combat pay, of course) or that the solution to 300 million guns is 600 million guns. These lines will be the new 'rape sperm' poison that will cast the republican party as the party of idiocy in the 2014 election.
It shouldn't be this way. This shouldn't be a political issue, it is a public health issues. But if you are going to force middle American families to choose sides, then Democrats should happily rejoice that the NRA will further move the GOP towards permanent minority status.
4
In DC tomorrow there's a march and rally at the NRA office:
https://www.facebook.com/events/30755474…
https://www.facebook.com/events/30755474…
5
I think this tragedy has finally touched a nerve, with even conservatives like David Brooks calling for saner gun laws.
And there are several petitions out there calling for gun control, including one on the White House website with over 134,000 signatures:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio…
And there are several petitions out there calling for gun control, including one on the White House website with over 134,000 signatures:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio…
6
What a beautiful human being our President is. I'm even more thankful he's our President than when he won the first time.
7
Does this mean that the drone strikes will now end, or is it only the lives of "our" children that matter?
8
This is even a better petition, with specific solutions. Please sign all of them.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio…
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitio…
9
Nice speech. The man does do nice speeches.
But talk is cheap. Let's see what kind of bill actually gets put forward, and just how much capital he's willing to spend to get it through the collection of degenerates we jokingly call the "House of Representatives".
But talk is cheap. Let's see what kind of bill actually gets put forward, and just how much capital he's willing to spend to get it through the collection of degenerates we jokingly call the "House of Representatives".
10
Senator Feinstein, the woman who discovered the bodies of Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone, is ready to put forward a bill banning assault weapons on day 1 of the next session.
It's a good start at least.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/en…
It's a good start at least.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/en…
11
Yes, engage with mental health professionals! There was a shooting at a shopping mall here in Portland the other day, just one day before the one in CT! It was a "troubled" young person doing the shooting here too. How about we give troubled people someone trained and compassionate to unload their feelings on? (instead of unloading a gun on others and/or themselves)
12
Yes, engage with mental health professionals! There was a shooting at a shopping mall here in Portland the other day, just one day before the one in CT! It was a "troubled" young person doing the shooting here too. How about we give troubled people someone trained and compassionate to unload their feelings on? (instead of unloading a gun on others and/or themselves)
13
http://mashable.com/2012/07/23/obama-aur…
It seems like a stock speech to me. I know he's genuinely upset about what has happened in these shootings and I hope his words gave comfort to those at Newtown, but seriously, I don't think it's appropriate to say "we can't accept events like this as routine" when that's exactly what he has done.
It seems like a stock speech to me. I know he's genuinely upset about what has happened in these shootings and I hope his words gave comfort to those at Newtown, but seriously, I don't think it's appropriate to say "we can't accept events like this as routine" when that's exactly what he has done.
14
A nice speech, and hopefully the start of something meaningful. Though I do wish he hadn't stopped to wave. I know that's what Fox and the rest of the conservative media will be jumping on that as Obama using this as an opportunity for grandstanding or something, rather than discussing the actual issue. But I guess they would just jump on something else instead, so it doesn't really matter.
15
Far more kids are killed every year by cars, and driving isn't a constitutional right. I don't hold out much hope for adavances in gun control when more or less the laws turn on and only on the convenience of middle aged to elderely men and women with strange ideas about what humanity really entails. We just need to wait until these disgusting people die off I'm afraid.
16
@12, you're assuming that all these troubled people 1) didn't have someone to unload their feelings on, and 2) they'd actually do so, and 3) if they did so, it would mean they wouldn't take their guns somewhere and shoot.
You should read the stories by some of their parents saying they'd tried to get their children help, and in some cases driven their kids to hospitals when they threatened to kill their parents or sibilings, and eventually it was all for naught. Because you can't confine someone for the rest of their life because they've made threats, and you can't force them to get help, and you can't force them to take meds, and sometimes the meds don't work.
That brings us back to the guns, because no matter how mentally ill someone is, they can't kill without a weapon.
You should read the stories by some of their parents saying they'd tried to get their children help, and in some cases driven their kids to hospitals when they threatened to kill their parents or sibilings, and eventually it was all for naught. Because you can't confine someone for the rest of their life because they've made threats, and you can't force them to get help, and you can't force them to take meds, and sometimes the meds don't work.
That brings us back to the guns, because no matter how mentally ill someone is, they can't kill without a weapon.
17
Way too much Jeebus. I don't see how the senseless, violent deaths of innocent children is a great time to praise the Almighty's wisdom and mercy, as it aught to finally put an end to the last vestiges of any sensible person's religious beliefs. But the rest was nice.
18
wow, a firm pledge to use "whatever" power he has, to "engage" on this issue. this isn't even as strong as his promise to fight for susan rice was.
his problem is he talks platitudes when he should be exlaining particular legislation he's pushing and what it will do. he had the nation's ear, and he couldn't focus on assault weapons ban, for example? too scared to mention it? hardly bodes well.
btw expect gun sales to spike this week, big time.
his problem is he talks platitudes when he should be exlaining particular legislation he's pushing and what it will do. he had the nation's ear, and he couldn't focus on assault weapons ban, for example? too scared to mention it? hardly bodes well.
btw expect gun sales to spike this week, big time.
19
Having grown up in a Catholic parish in the Northeast, I liked most of the president's speech, but when he bordered on trying to "do something"..I don't think he got much of a reaction.
While I don't intend to speak for the people of Newtown, the general mindset is that all things are God's will. That He decides what happens, no matter how horrible. People accept that as part of suffering. They also know nothing can change what has happened, and assume that if not this, than something else -- airplane crash, dam breaking.
20
What "general mindset", Bailo? I doubt that many people in Newton think this was God's will. Why don't you just talk about what you think, not what "people" think.
23
The Constitution guarantees access to guns not for hunting and not for shooting burglars but so that the populace will be armed in the event of another Revolution.
Because under our system the ultimate power and authority lies not with the President and not with the Supreme Court and not with Homeland Security but with The People.
And it takes weapons to make that authority stick.
If the government gets too big for it's britches the population has a right, and a responsibility, to reign it in, by armed force if need be.
Hopefully the government and the People can play nice and be reasonable and we will not need another Revolution.
But that card always must be there.
This was a horror and a tragedy but those are part of life.
If you don't like living in an Exceptional Nation move to Belgium.
Attempts to ban guns are unwise and UnAmerican, but very typically Humanist Liberal.
Please resume your hand wringing and bed wetting......
Because under our system the ultimate power and authority lies not with the President and not with the Supreme Court and not with Homeland Security but with The People.
And it takes weapons to make that authority stick.
If the government gets too big for it's britches the population has a right, and a responsibility, to reign it in, by armed force if need be.
Hopefully the government and the People can play nice and be reasonable and we will not need another Revolution.
But that card always must be there.
This was a horror and a tragedy but those are part of life.
If you don't like living in an Exceptional Nation move to Belgium.
Attempts to ban guns are unwise and UnAmerican, but very typically Humanist Liberal.
Please resume your hand wringing and bed wetting......
25
Actually, yes, that's pretty much what I was thinking. If we want to live in a country where guns are easy to get--and it's been made clear that many people do--then yes, we need to accept that things like this will happen. It IS because guns are readily available. No amount of gun education would have changed what young Mr. Lanza did, though gun education might prevent the many accidental deaths that go largely unrecorded by the media.
But why go for gun control when we can go for gun control and a better mental health infrastructure?
But why go for gun control when we can go for gun control and a better mental health infrastructure?
26
I'm just so impressed by the goodness and sanity of the president. Thankfully he's opened the guns debate.
27
Strict gun control might help a bit, and so might heavily expanded mental health care. These measures, however, would neither predict nor preclude the random acts of the many functional sociopaths who are encouraged by the prevailing 'kill-or-be-killed' culture. Could the lower rates of gun violence in countries with stricter gun controls also be down to the character of their societies? What Obama hints at—he would never say such a thing, but I am not so timid—is the need for a total overhaul of American values and culture.
It's playing the long game, but we need to consider what we can do to foster a better citizenry.
While it's tempting, very tempting, to fantasize about sending the NRA and most of the House Republicans to re-education camps in China to build iPhones, in fact it will require Americans taking a good look at their priorities, searching for clues as to where our culture went so wrong.
It's playing the long game, but we need to consider what we can do to foster a better citizenry.
While it's tempting, very tempting, to fantasize about sending the NRA and most of the House Republicans to re-education camps in China to build iPhones, in fact it will require Americans taking a good look at their priorities, searching for clues as to where our culture went so wrong.
28
It's not either/or. Let's change our culture and mental health polices AND do whatever exactly Australia did with the gun thing.
29
What kind of a nation loves its guns more than its children?
That's the question I'd like to see asked.
That's the question I'd like to see asked.
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