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Cato the Younger Younger 1
Isn't this what the right in this country wants? Public schools to be armed to the teeth and a place of total terror for your children? I mean it's almost like the NRA and the freaks on the right are using this tragedy to start another push towards charter schools. I mean look at those public schools...they are just scary.
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on December 21, 2012 at 10:42 AM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 2
The NRA is suggesting putting cops in schools because that's the best they can get away with just now.

Everyone knows that what the NRA really wants is for every man, woman, and child to own multiple guns.

Car advocates want everyone to buy cars, cigarette advocates want everyone to buy cigarettes, and, surprise surprise, gun advocates want everyone to buy guns.

This can't possibly shock anyone, unless you've been living on a commune.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on December 21, 2012 at 10:46 AM · Report this
3
Speaking of multiple guns Chicago Fan, it's not unusual for your namesake city to have twenty shootings in one weekend. In fact you've had 4000 in 4 years fatal or otherwise. How's that Illinois gun control working out? It's the only state that bans CCW outright to everyone. Seems to work like charm.
Posted by Valid question on December 21, 2012 at 10:55 AM · Report this
ChadK 4
@ 3 - Still relying on that tired old hat are ye? Did you also know that the vast majority of those shootings are criminals and gangbangers shooting each other? Not like that little detail, nor the demographic involved with those casualties are anything that you give a wet fart about. You are far more interested in utilizing the numbers as a means to bolster the end to your zero sum game, right? You couldn't possibly be speaking out of altruism for a common good. You've got too much repugnant self interest standing in he way of that.
Posted by ChadK on December 21, 2012 at 11:07 AM · Report this
Fnarf 5
Guess what, kiddies? Columbine school had an armed guard on duty.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM · Report this
Catalina Vel-DuRay 6
So, we assign an armed guard to every school. This being the US, we go with the cheapest option, and use senior citizens or the unemployable.

The unthinkable happens: the killer goes first to the security center and takes out the guard. Or the guard himself turns out to be a killer, thoughtfully armed by We The People.

A solution that on a moron or sociopath could come up with. I'm thinking Mr. NRA is the latter.
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay http://www.danlangdon.com on December 21, 2012 at 11:49 AM · Report this
sirkowski 7
The most paranoid libertarians and wingnuts who fear the governments the most are also the ones who will always get behind a fascist regime. It's a paradox, but the paranoid want to be reassured. They don't want a fair and just state. They want a government who will kill and oppress the people they fear.
Posted by sirkowski http://www.missdynamite.com on December 21, 2012 at 11:55 AM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 8
NRA to America; FUCK YOU and YOUR KIDS, TOO!
Posted by Pope Peabrain on December 21, 2012 at 12:01 PM · Report this
9
This is good middle of the ground solution, not the only thing to do but one thing. Lots of Democrats could get behind this, liberals no, but Democrats.
Posted by Seattle14 on December 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM · Report this
Fnarf 10
@6, you forgot a few options, all more likely than successful defense against mass slayers:

* kids steal Barney Fife's gun when his back is turned and accidentally shoot someone with it;

* kids steal Barney Fife's gun when his back is turned and deliberately shoot someone with it;

* kids steal Barney Fife's gun when his back is turned and take it home, where it is stolen again by a criminal or sold to a criminal for drugs;

* Barney Fife knocks his gun against the table in the cafeteria and accidentally shoots himself;

* Barney Fife knocks his gun against his chair in the cafeteria and accidentally shoots a student;

* Barney Fife hears a funny noise in his hearing aid and opens fire, killing a teacher or student;

* Barney Fife tries to break up a playground fight by drawing his weapon and shooting a bystander;

So many scenarios. None of them good ones.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 21, 2012 at 12:03 PM · Report this
rob! 11
This is really much more sinister, I think. Just as the Republicans do their damndest to double the defense budget and the national debt every time they have a chance, specifically to checkmate any increase in social spending when they're out of power (Look! Deficit! BAWWWWW!), the NRA is angling to suck up every last drop of federal, state, and local money that becomes available as the economy staggers to its feet.

The NRA, unless stopped, is well on its way to becoming the fourth branch of government, one with no accountability whatsoever. Just two years ago, the Disclose Act was before Congress--the legislation to require every corporation and nonprofit group to reveal top donors to broadcast political ad campaigns. "Blue Dog" Democrats worked with the NRA to add an amendment that "exempted 501(c)4 organizations with more than 500,000 members. Legislative staffers said the narrow language... would apply to only the gun organization and a tiny handful of others."

That measure passed in the House but fortunately died in the Senate. They'll try again, though.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/e…
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on December 21, 2012 at 12:11 PM · Report this
Fnarf 12
@6, I left out one of the most sinister, but which has become fairly common in schools these days: jackass cops inappropriately disciplining "misbehaving students", usually by tasing them for trivial disobediences. And this:

"Officer Christopher Webb pointed the stun gun at the boy after the boy made a joke and said, "Let me show you what happens to people who do not listen to the police," according to the lawsuit filed Friday against the state Department of Public Safety.

"The officer contends his stun gun went off by accident while he was showing it to a group of students, according to Department of Public Safety documents."
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 21, 2012 at 12:20 PM · Report this
13
@6
@10
That is the problem.
While it may START with real cops, real cops are expensive.
So next it will be "security agencies". They will be less expensive, but not as cheap as could be.
And so on and so on and so on.
Until it is "Barney Fife".

And you're only looking at gun-related problems.
I'm sure that the back ground checks will get more lax over time.
How about the middle-aged armed guard hitting on teenage girls?
And go from there.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on December 21, 2012 at 12:22 PM · Report this
14
There's an armed guard in every bank, which is why there hasn't been a successful armed bank robbery since 1885.
Posted by Farts Weird on December 21, 2012 at 12:30 PM · Report this
Fnarf 15
@13, Barney Fife was a real cop. Sheriff's deputy. Badge and gun and everything.

I could also mention that even the police departments we have now are not exactly overflowing with qualified applicants, even at the high salaries they pay. Seattle PD is advertising on billboards right now. but you're going to add 200,000+ officers -- something like a 25% increase to fill the schools? Assuming that not ALL of the school guards would be incompetents who couldn't get jobs on PDs, you're going to be taking officers away from the communities that need them and locking them away in schools.

This is what a police state looks like.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 21, 2012 at 12:34 PM · Report this
Fnarf 16
I urge you to read the great Tony Horwitz's piece on Ta-Nehisi Coates's blog comparing the aggressive expansionist tactics of The Gun Power to the rise of The Slave Power in the US in the years leading up to the Civil War:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arch…
the NRA has become a neo-Confederate movement that sees Federals as foes, and that stokes the paranoia of its followers by claiming, as LaPierre did this year, that Obama's re-election marks "the end of our freedom forever." That's more or less what Fire-Eaters said about Lincoln in 1860.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 21, 2012 at 12:38 PM · Report this
17
@7 correctly identifies the paradox. You might say it's the Republican Party's "Enabling Paradox."
Posted by Eric from Boulder on December 21, 2012 at 12:54 PM · Report this
Gordon Werner 18
Apparently we now need armed guards/officers in all alleys downtown as well

https://twitter.com/seattlepd/status/282…
Posted by Gordon Werner on December 21, 2012 at 12:58 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 19
Every day the NRA wakes up and ask itself: "How can I make America more like the East German DDR Police State."
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on December 21, 2012 at 1:13 PM · Report this
20
@16 also in terms of right wingers cynically using an emotional issue to bag and capture working class whites and turn them against liberalism.

the nra political message machine is a wonder to behold; a disgusting one. having succeeded in getting 280 million guns out there, they want more, this sustains their model of "they're about to take your guns away" by assuring a steady leakage into crazy hands or illegal hands where criminals shoot us up. scaring more people. leading to more guns.

it's like an addiction process, also, in that the folks caught in it believe a package of lies.
Posted by but politically effective on December 21, 2012 at 1:14 PM · Report this
Catalina Vel-DuRay 21
Fnarf dear, don't forget - Barney only had one bullet, and he kept it in his shirt pocket.
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay http://www.danlangdon.com on December 21, 2012 at 1:26 PM · Report this
Fnarf 22
@21, not today he wouldn't. He'd have a round in the chamber and 29 more in the magazine, safety off, finger on the trigger. HEY! YOU KIDS! GET DOWN FROM THERE! BLAM!

And the gun nuts would still be coming in here and telling us that it was a terrible tragedy but nothing can be done, I'm not a kook, I support sensible measures EXCEPT THERE ARE NONE.

I don't think it's going to change until there are twenty mass shootings a day.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on December 21, 2012 at 1:29 PM · Report this
23
@Fnarf: "Leave Barney Fife Alone!"
Wasn't there a video to that effect at some point?
As usual, totally correct.
Posted by Chicago Fan on December 21, 2012 at 2:41 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 24
When you look at places where people a majority of people are heavily armed (like the tribal areas of Pakistan, for example) you see that there's hardly any crime.

Oh wait, actually you see a place that's a half step away from civil war all the time and has an honest-to-gods bandit problem.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on December 21, 2012 at 2:51 PM · Report this
thatsnotright 25
How is one armed guard supposed to protect a building or complex that holds a thousand or mre students? Are there to be armed guards in every hallway and every entrance? One estimate I read was $88 K per year, per cop for salary, benefits, and admin. Is this to come out of each school district's budget? Perhaps they expect all the overpaid teachers to pitch in their retirement funds. What asshats.
Posted by thatsnotright on December 21, 2012 at 3:23 PM · Report this
AppleCapital 26
Hmm ... let's check this idea out with the 13 people who were killed and 29 who were wounded by one nut at Ft. Hood. Which, oh yes, by the way, is a place where everybody is issued a weapon.
Posted by AppleCapital on December 21, 2012 at 5:07 PM · Report this
AppleCapital 27
I think we'd be better of with an additional arts teacher in every school.
Posted by AppleCapital on December 21, 2012 at 5:08 PM · Report this
28
@27 amen. Can we get Ethics classes again, too?
Dear NRA, while you bolster the politics of selling guns under the guise of defending the 2nd amendment, What about the THIRD amendment? IMO this armed guard proposal is throwing the 3rd amendment under the bus. Now, I know, aside from Engblom v. Carey the 3rd's never been deeply examined by the federal courts and never by the SCOTUS - but that also means it could be interpreted a number of ways. IMO, no 'soldier' in my house, includes no armed guard in my building /publicly owned schoolhouse. Without consent of owner? Let me go on record: I'm the public, and you don't have my permission.

Ranting about Deputy Fife seems too like Dan Quayle vs Murphy Brown - can't be taken seriously.
However,
regarding the armed guard(s) at columbine, here are some other facts: armed guard? yes. They had 2 guards: an armed guard and an unarmed guard, Neil Gardner and Andy Marton, respectively. On duty? Sure, arguably. But the part left out: In the school? No, not at all: both were out.
An account from the guard himself is online: He was in his car, eating lunch, and monitoring the 'smoker's pit' in Clement Park.
To be fair to his later heroics, once called to the scene, Gardner drew [idiot shooter name redacted]'s fire, and likely because of it jammed one of [shooter]'s rifles.
Posted by JulietteF on December 22, 2012 at 2:30 AM · Report this
watchout5 29
Every time someone connects "logic" to a social issue you know the next thing out of their mouth is agenda driven propaganda. End of story.
Posted by watchout5 http://www.overclockeddrama.com on December 22, 2012 at 2:34 AM · Report this
30
@26
No. The guns are kept away from the people in the military unless they're specifically needed.
And even then the ammo is often kept away from them.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on December 22, 2012 at 11:53 AM · Report this
31
cops with guns or military with guns or searches at schools are all totally 1984. what a fucking jackoff.
Posted by scratchmaster joe on December 22, 2012 at 5:42 PM · Report this

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