Slog Comments
Finally, Some Fucking Guts on the School Board
1
What makes you so sure having guards at school won't work? Sure it won't work all the time but even if it prevents one school shooting isn't it worth it? Besides the kids I know, the one in the suburbs, felt safer in school cause there were a couple cops patrolling. They had this crazy idea that cops were good. Of course in addition to this you need an assault weapons bans and a closing of the gun show loophole. As many good ideas as you can find.
3
@1 there was an armed guard at Columbine. He even shot at the bad guys, they shot back.
Also where do we get the 18b from to pay for the 1-2 guards at every school?
Also where do we get the 18b from to pay for the 1-2 guards at every school?
4
I grew up in Canada and we regularly had a cop patrolling our high school. I didn't think much of it at the time. The school was downtown, in a rougher part of the city. There was actually a murder on that high school's property this year, though not during school hours.
6
@5, so you realize on base enlisted me aren't allowed to have firearms they live in the armory?
fort hood was armed =/guns bad - is terrible logic.
so is "cops at schools wont help" otherwise they wouldn't have already had them, here and all over the nation for years.
fort hood was armed =/guns bad - is terrible logic.
so is "cops at schools wont help" otherwise they wouldn't have already had them, here and all over the nation for years.
7
@6 So you're telling no one on a military base, including those guarding the place, have no firearms, fully loaded and ready to go?
Yah. Right.
Yah. Right.
10
In addition to Fort Hood, don't forget those four armed Sheriff's Deputies who were murdered by that guy that Mike Huckabee let out of prison.
11
If you have ever been in the military: If you are going overseas or boarding aircraft, whatnot, you are all configured in company formation etc, prepping gear. More often than not you have your weapon and no ammunition. Ammo is loaded at staging area once you arrive to where ever the fuck that may be. MP's are on base, but may be 5 min away. Any soldier could buy/bring ammo/arms from off base. Companies and platoons are very tight and military bases are generally safe.
Ft. Hood was terrorist event amongst unarmed soldiers - their guns were not loaded.
So many fucks don't get this.
Ft. Hood was terrorist event amongst unarmed soldiers - their guns were not loaded.
So many fucks don't get this.
12
In general, arms are much better for offense than for defense. On offense, you have momentum and several seconds head start. On defense, you either have to be walking around paranoid all the time with your gun drawn, ready to shoot anyone who looks suspicious, or you're just another target. Not much of a deterrent for anyone hyped up to commit a massacre.
Nope, the only solution is arms control. Or in the case of the millions of AR15s and high-cap mags around, maybe ammo control. The .223 is only used by those guns. Ban the sale of 'em and eventually that problem goes away.
Nope, the only solution is arms control. Or in the case of the millions of AR15s and high-cap mags around, maybe ammo control. The .223 is only used by those guns. Ban the sale of 'em and eventually that problem goes away.
13
When I want to know about children, specifically the art of staring at young boys bottoms while cruising slowly through a school "gun free" zone, I 'll ask for Dominic's opinion...
14
@6&11
So that's interesting, that even professional soldiers, who are highly trained and disciplined in the use of weapons, are NOT ALLOWED to have live ammo on base.
Maybe the Army knows something that the rest of us could learn from.....
So that's interesting, that even professional soldiers, who are highly trained and disciplined in the use of weapons, are NOT ALLOWED to have live ammo on base.
Maybe the Army knows something that the rest of us could learn from.....
15
Well, thank heavens for Superintendent Jose Banda and School Board President Kay Smith-Blum for having common sense! I'm glad to read that SOMEbody still does.
16
@1 My kid's high school cancelled a planned holiday event this afternoon and had a police car stationed in the front and back of the school. None of the kids I talked with felt safer. This armed guard,metal detector, police state approach is simply insane. It is completely giving in to the paranoid vision of society now held by the gun nuts, a society which we must for some reason make chaotically violent by pouring MORE weapons into it.
To start with, can we have an educational outreach program to families about the danger of guns in the home? What is wrong with that? I know it wouldn't violate the 2nd amendment under any interpretation. Why can't the school board, city, or state do that? Because the NRA and the gun nuts don't want people talking about how maybe the weapons are making those around gun owners LESS safe. They don't just want guns. They want the non-nuts to feel powerless to do anything about guns in their lives. If we had an educational campaign maybe everybody would feel more empowered to ask for small things, like how people (including off duty police!) should lock up their guns.
To start with, can we have an educational outreach program to families about the danger of guns in the home? What is wrong with that? I know it wouldn't violate the 2nd amendment under any interpretation. Why can't the school board, city, or state do that? Because the NRA and the gun nuts don't want people talking about how maybe the weapons are making those around gun owners LESS safe. They don't just want guns. They want the non-nuts to feel powerless to do anything about guns in their lives. If we had an educational campaign maybe everybody would feel more empowered to ask for small things, like how people (including off duty police!) should lock up their guns.
17
What amazes me more than anything is the surprise everyone is registering at the NRA's statement.
If you ask a barber if you need a haircut, the answer will always be yes. By demanding a reaction from the NRA, we got the only reaction we could ever expect to get from the NRA.
The default position of this organization is, and always will be, "more guns=better". You will never convince them to adopt any other position.
What you can hope to do, though is convince those who support the NRA to abandon the organization. Given the spike in NRA membership following the President's speech, the current strategy is not achieving the desired effect.
If you ask a barber if you need a haircut, the answer will always be yes. By demanding a reaction from the NRA, we got the only reaction we could ever expect to get from the NRA.
The default position of this organization is, and always will be, "more guns=better". You will never convince them to adopt any other position.
What you can hope to do, though is convince those who support the NRA to abandon the organization. Given the spike in NRA membership following the President's speech, the current strategy is not achieving the desired effect.
18
Banda is the school superintendent. Doesn't he know about the earlier statement, and if not, why not? How can the "school district" send out one thing and the superintendent another?
19
Dom, apologies for being the grammar Nazi, but "vertebrae" is plural. The singular is "vertebra." That's Latin for ya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebra
20
Meantime in the real world. The downtown Safeco Office building has an armed guard. The fucking ATM machine gets multiple armed guards when cash is reloaded.
Though an elementary school full of babies and women...is a gun free zone. Fuck you Libs!
Though an elementary school full of babies and women...is a gun free zone. Fuck you Libs!
23
@16, an educational program for parents about gun safety in the home? Do you really think that parents who have loaded guns lying around in the home are going to come to that educational program? They don't need to become "empowered"; their guns empower them.
As a lifelong liberal I still get stunned by the naivete of some of my fellow liberals.
As a lifelong liberal I still get stunned by the naivete of some of my fellow liberals.
24
What makes you so sure having guards at school won't work?
Columbine. Troll harder next time beta.
Columbine. Troll harder next time beta.
25
Armed guards in every school - so how long until the first one of them shoots a kid he thinks looked at him funny? I'd give it a month, tops.
26
The school where I work has five buildings, each of which has two or more entrances. Since schools have classes, rehearsals, meetings, practice sessions, performances, etc., there is some kind or activity going on pretty much from 7 am until 9 or 10, unless there is a dance, in which case the day is longer. So to keep one guard ineach building for two labor shifts each day would mean hiring 10 full time people for 16/5 coverage, and that doesn't count weekends. Meanwhile, we have lost three teaching positions in the last two years due to budget cuts, and I teach using texts we bought in the nineties.
27
this illustrates the sillyness of what passes for debate on guns.
EVERY nation that has DRAMATICALLY lower rates of massacre, mayhem, and gun death, vastly restricts guns. The only way nations have in practice achieved relative safety is that way. NOT through armed guarding every school.
and btw the stupidity of the nra and gun lovers' arguments is obvious.
we already have armed guards all over, they are called police, we already have 280 fucking million guns all over, we are the most armed nation ever in this history of the earth except for maybe fucking wajiristan or afghanistan and guess what? we lead the world or are at the top in massacres, gun deaths, and lots of crime generally, while 30 other nations that highly restrict guns....aren't.
put an armed guard at the school house door, and
1. he will welcome the lanza teenager in, knowing him so well. then lanza will go crazy and shoot everyone.
2. lanza will go in another door, or shoot up the gym or playground.
3. lanza will go to another school. or playground.
or mall. or church. or church school. or church playground.
it's such a cop out to say look at every thing, if a proposal could possible avert JUST ONE DEATH we should look at it and put in five billions dollars for it blah blalh blah blah blah the truth is simple, our massive love affair with guns puts them within reach EZ reach of every crazy and criminal, and the places that keep them out of reach or simply make it a BIT harder have FAR lower rates of gun death. England, 4% own guns, far lower gun deaths. Canada has like 40% the gun ownership rate of america. it's no gun free zone. FAR lower rates of massacre and gun death. Australia, ditto, scotland ireland wales ditto. my god it's like some people are too stooooopid to use their brains and see facts instead playing out little dramas in their head, imagining a brave armed guard taking down lanza! deterring lanza from that one school, PROBLEM SOLVED they somehow can't imagine that lanza would GO TO A PLAYGROUND OR STREET CORNER or SHOOT FIRST BY GETTIN GTHE JUMP ON THE GUARD because obviously unless we have swat teams everywhere with their guns drawn and safety off they'll be like the lakewood four -- SITTING DUCKS.
what's most cowardly of the nra and all these fucking gun owners, the 6% in washington state with concealed carry? why aren' they out there right now stopping these gun deaths. 6% of the folks in that lakewood coffee shop had concealed carry permits right? didn't do those officers any good. of course the nra solution to all this is "don't just arm the guards, arm EVERYONE!" conveniently selling more guns and NRA memberships of course, but this then leads to theproblem that the school guard will welcome lanza or any other about to turn crazy nut on campus being NOT ALLOWED TO REQUEST THEY NOT BRING A GUN TO SCHOOL. See the real nra plan is to foster and create all this mayhem death murder and massacre to sell more guns for their corporate idols and generate more NRA membership. too bad too much of america is too stoopid to see it's working pretty well. 280 million guns, worst gun death rates of any advanced nation, and most fucking idiots here of the gun loving persuasion can't make the connection.
More...
EVERY nation that has DRAMATICALLY lower rates of massacre, mayhem, and gun death, vastly restricts guns. The only way nations have in practice achieved relative safety is that way. NOT through armed guarding every school.
and btw the stupidity of the nra and gun lovers' arguments is obvious.
we already have armed guards all over, they are called police, we already have 280 fucking million guns all over, we are the most armed nation ever in this history of the earth except for maybe fucking wajiristan or afghanistan and guess what? we lead the world or are at the top in massacres, gun deaths, and lots of crime generally, while 30 other nations that highly restrict guns....aren't.
put an armed guard at the school house door, and
1. he will welcome the lanza teenager in, knowing him so well. then lanza will go crazy and shoot everyone.
2. lanza will go in another door, or shoot up the gym or playground.
3. lanza will go to another school. or playground.
or mall. or church. or church school. or church playground.
it's such a cop out to say look at every thing, if a proposal could possible avert JUST ONE DEATH we should look at it and put in five billions dollars for it blah blalh blah blah blah the truth is simple, our massive love affair with guns puts them within reach EZ reach of every crazy and criminal, and the places that keep them out of reach or simply make it a BIT harder have FAR lower rates of gun death. England, 4% own guns, far lower gun deaths. Canada has like 40% the gun ownership rate of america. it's no gun free zone. FAR lower rates of massacre and gun death. Australia, ditto, scotland ireland wales ditto. my god it's like some people are too stooooopid to use their brains and see facts instead playing out little dramas in their head, imagining a brave armed guard taking down lanza! deterring lanza from that one school, PROBLEM SOLVED they somehow can't imagine that lanza would GO TO A PLAYGROUND OR STREET CORNER or SHOOT FIRST BY GETTIN GTHE JUMP ON THE GUARD because obviously unless we have swat teams everywhere with their guns drawn and safety off they'll be like the lakewood four -- SITTING DUCKS.
what's most cowardly of the nra and all these fucking gun owners, the 6% in washington state with concealed carry? why aren' they out there right now stopping these gun deaths. 6% of the folks in that lakewood coffee shop had concealed carry permits right? didn't do those officers any good. of course the nra solution to all this is "don't just arm the guards, arm EVERYONE!" conveniently selling more guns and NRA memberships of course, but this then leads to theproblem that the school guard will welcome lanza or any other about to turn crazy nut on campus being NOT ALLOWED TO REQUEST THEY NOT BRING A GUN TO SCHOOL. See the real nra plan is to foster and create all this mayhem death murder and massacre to sell more guns for their corporate idols and generate more NRA membership. too bad too much of america is too stoopid to see it's working pretty well. 280 million guns, worst gun death rates of any advanced nation, and most fucking idiots here of the gun loving persuasion can't make the connection.
28
@20 you stupid moron. england australia japan have achieved actual safety without armed guards in every school. why not just copy what they do, if you fucking love kids so much? truth is, you don't. you like most gun lovers love to live your violent fantasies of shootouts and the wild west like a fucking yahoo, and you don' care how many kids women men children rich and poor have to to die; it's simply beyond your mental ability to process the facts and arguments. like most cretinous fools you're a tool of the nra and corporate gun makers behind it, and you don't even realize it, you cretinous fool.
29
Go to youtube and watch the cop giving a gun safety lesson to grade schoolers shoot himself in the foot with an "unloaded" Glock .40. Watch the longer version and see the kids start crying when he picks up another weapon.
30
Not only is @26 exactly right, I still don't get why a guard with a fire arm is gonna be a match for somebody (or, as in Columbine more than just one somebody) who shows up with more massive firepower. So are all of these guards gonna be carrying assault rifles themselves? And, what, they're all Bruce Willis from "Die Hard"? For all of Wayne LaPierre's rantings against video games and "Natural Born Killers," it sure sounds like the NRA is proposing a strategy straight out of the movies rather than anything approaching reality.
31
Seattle, they had an armed sheriff's deputy at Columbine. Didn't help.
Armed guards does NOT solve the problem. Are we that crazy in this country that we would accept this is this ONLY solution? Please.
There are security officers (not armed) at every high school in Seattle (and most middle schools). A couple of the high schools do have a Seattle PD officer who checks in regularly (if not daily). It would be great if the City had this for ALL the high schools and middle schools as it establishes relationships that help head off situations.
The goal is to AVOID these situations.
Armed guards does NOT solve the problem. Are we that crazy in this country that we would accept this is this ONLY solution? Please.
There are security officers (not armed) at every high school in Seattle (and most middle schools). A couple of the high schools do have a Seattle PD officer who checks in regularly (if not daily). It would be great if the City had this for ALL the high schools and middle schools as it establishes relationships that help head off situations.
The goal is to AVOID these situations.
32
@26- The cost was my first thought too. We can't afford mostly useless guards. We apparently also can't afford the mental health system that would really prevent these shootings. Or rather, that's not how we choose to spend money.
33
@23 - Such an educational campaign wouldn't have to get people to come to classes; there's also advertising and such. Public health campaigns about the dangers of smoking haven't eliminated smoking, but they've reduced the number of people smoking around their infants.
34
The mayor in Poulsbo has come out in favor of "Resource Officers" for the schools in town. I guess she doesn't have the heart to admit that here in the United States of Somalia, we need armed fucking swat bots patrolling our schools.
35
@23 and @33. Public education campaigns empower other people to speak their minds instead of cowering in fear that challenging bullshit 2nd Amendment arguments is somehow akin to questioning someone's religion.
The first thing on the NRA list is to prevent public education campaigns. If it was just "liberal" naivete, the NRA wouldn't be so frightened of it.
Also, they have effectively shut down all Federal agencies that would normally put some money into studying gun issues like they do traffic, food, medicine, and disease.
Also, you missed my point, which was that the NRA will go all out to block something as minor as a public education campaign.
For the gun manufacturers who fund the NRA, every killing is sales PR. They view Sandy Hook as an awesome Christmas ad campaign. Bushnell assault rifles have now sold out completely in gun stores across the nation!
The first thing on the NRA list is to prevent public education campaigns. If it was just "liberal" naivete, the NRA wouldn't be so frightened of it.
Also, they have effectively shut down all Federal agencies that would normally put some money into studying gun issues like they do traffic, food, medicine, and disease.
Also, you missed my point, which was that the NRA will go all out to block something as minor as a public education campaign.
For the gun manufacturers who fund the NRA, every killing is sales PR. They view Sandy Hook as an awesome Christmas ad campaign. Bushnell assault rifles have now sold out completely in gun stores across the nation!
Comments (36) RSS