Slog Comments
And the Best Jobs for Women Are...
2
Well, seriously. If you want higher pay, you have to ask for it.
For the record, I'm totally in favor of equal pay no matter what. But our silly competitive workforce requires everyone to be a sales negotiator when salary comes up.
Perhaps men ask for higher salaries more often than women do?
For the record, I'm totally in favor of equal pay no matter what. But our silly competitive workforce requires everyone to be a sales negotiator when salary comes up.
Perhaps men ask for higher salaries more often than women do?
3
Women don't "belong" in the home, they choose to be there. If women want to make 100% or more of what their male counterparts earn then they should choose to not have kids or not take maternity leave. Or use their political influence to elect politicians that will enact generous full maternity/paternity leave legislation like that found in socialist nations such as Sweden. 45% of women voters voted for Mitt Romney in 2012 and 49% voted for Republican US House candidates in 2010 though, so good luck with that.
6
@2, I have an interesting anecdote on that score.
My colleague was negotiating for a better position with our former boss about a year ago. My colleague felt like she was in a weak position, having recently taken both bereavement and maternity leave, and not having been with the company all that long. So she was just asking for a better title and some different responsibilities, and specifically said she wasn't asking for more money. Our boss said, "Don't say that. A man would never say that. A man would always ask for more money." That sticks with me.
My colleague was negotiating for a better position with our former boss about a year ago. My colleague felt like she was in a weak position, having recently taken both bereavement and maternity leave, and not having been with the company all that long. So she was just asking for a better title and some different responsibilities, and specifically said she wasn't asking for more money. Our boss said, "Don't say that. A man would never say that. A man would always ask for more money." That sticks with me.
7
What a ridiculous statement to end your article on. If you wanted to make the big bucks, why are you at a newspaper instead of an oil field?
9
@6 If you aren't asking for more money, it isn't a "raise", it's just punishing yourself. Getting a better title without getting better money weakens your position overall. It's worse than useless.
That said, my advice has always been to never ask for a raise unless you already have an offer from another organization. It's harsh, but if you ask for a raise you deserve and are turned down, you need to resign within the month. The best raise you will ever get is when you take a new job, and if your current employer won't pay up, someone else will.
That said, my advice has always been to never ask for a raise unless you already have an offer from another organization. It's harsh, but if you ask for a raise you deserve and are turned down, you need to resign within the month. The best raise you will ever get is when you take a new job, and if your current employer won't pay up, someone else will.
10
@3, if a woman has a child, the only time she has to be out of the office is for maybe three weeks after the child is born so she can recuperate. After that, the father can stay home with the child while the woman earns 100% of what men earn. Problem solved.
11
Personally, I've never seen salary tied to effort, quality of work, type of work, ability to negotiate. I have seen it tied to completely random events, more like winning a lottery.
That then is my answer for why, on average, women still get paid less. They just haven't been playing the lottery as long. Eventually the law of large numbers will catch up.
That then is my answer for why, on average, women still get paid less. They just haven't been playing the lottery as long. Eventually the law of large numbers will catch up.
12
If women want as much money as men they should invent an artificial womb that can gestate a fetus for 9 months. Much easier than legislating equal pay, or even convincing non-women people that it matters, let alone to not get angry and dismissive at the mere suggestion that it might.
@4 You've commented twice in a 25 minute span on a post you claim to not care about.
@4 You've commented twice in a 25 minute span on a post you claim to not care about.
14
@4 - No.
@9 - yep. Best and easiest way to get a raise. :) I was severely underpaid until I went that route.
@9 - yep. Best and easiest way to get a raise. :) I was severely underpaid until I went that route.
15
@3. It's not just socialist countries. The US is one of 4 countries in the world that doesn't mandate some sort of paid maternity leave.
16
@15 that's true but it's also true for many other labor issues that effect men as well (paid sick time, vacation etc.). I was referring to the equal opportunity maternity/paternity leave where a truly career-focused mother wouldn't have to stay home at all because her partner would be paid to do so.
17
The child factor is only one of many systemic causes of pay inequality between men & women in the workforce.
Off the top of my head, some others are;
- fewer senior women to mentor younger women
- a corportate culture which was designed by and for men (e.g. that it's considered professional to let interpersonal differences slide, rather than talk about them).
- lack of a critical mass of senior women to create an environment where new women can gain a sense of belonging
Tonnes of data can be found at catalyst.org
Off the top of my head, some others are;
- fewer senior women to mentor younger women
- a corportate culture which was designed by and for men (e.g. that it's considered professional to let interpersonal differences slide, rather than talk about them).
- lack of a critical mass of senior women to create an environment where new women can gain a sense of belonging
Tonnes of data can be found at catalyst.org
18
Now now, we all know where women belong: On top of the glass ceiling...in a stripper outfit...shaking that s@&t
19
@17
"A corporate culture which was designed by and for men (e.g. that it's considered professional to let interpersonal differences slide, rather than talk about them)."
Fascinating and astute observation! I've found that the truly successful business women (and men) that I've worked with are particularly adept at “letting interpersonal differences slide” (as in not taking every damn thing personally and obsessing over every perceived slight).
Not sure that that describes a corporate culture “designed for men” rather than a corporate culture designed for business, but men do seem more naturally adept at “moving on”, and are probably rewarded for that ability.
"A corporate culture which was designed by and for men (e.g. that it's considered professional to let interpersonal differences slide, rather than talk about them)."
Fascinating and astute observation! I've found that the truly successful business women (and men) that I've worked with are particularly adept at “letting interpersonal differences slide” (as in not taking every damn thing personally and obsessing over every perceived slight).
Not sure that that describes a corporate culture “designed for men” rather than a corporate culture designed for business, but men do seem more naturally adept at “moving on”, and are probably rewarded for that ability.
20
@19: You've shown an impressive inability today to let your contempt for 52% of the population slide.
21
@20, refuting bullshit factoids --like the nonsense that women are paid less for the *same* work-- isn't contempt for %52 of the population. If anything, it's questioning why stats like that are made up to foster contempt for %48 of the population.
Cienna does a lot of posts like this, sarcastically throwing out "jeez everyone knows women are soooo oppressed" without a real fact or two to support it.
The numbers are damn near the same when you account for job experience, educational background, and y'know, important stuff, like whether or not men and women are actually doing the same job.
Why lie about these statistics? Why fudge data to support the lie that women don't get a fair shake with job payment? They do. It's even codified into law. If you're aware of any instance where this is really happening, feel free to file a class action lawsuit.
Cienna does a lot of posts like this, sarcastically throwing out "jeez everyone knows women are soooo oppressed" without a real fact or two to support it.
The numbers are damn near the same when you account for job experience, educational background, and y'know, important stuff, like whether or not men and women are actually doing the same job.
Why lie about these statistics? Why fudge data to support the lie that women don't get a fair shake with job payment? They do. It's even codified into law. If you're aware of any instance where this is really happening, feel free to file a class action lawsuit.
22
I love it when someone says that someone else is lying about numbers/stats/facts and then provides no backup data to their claim.
Also: You're right, this is all about the men. It always is.
Also: You're right, this is all about the men. It always is.
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