Slog Comments
The Quiet Rise in DIY Abortions
44
42
You only know one woman who has had an abortion?
Do you live in a convent?
France reports a quarter of a million abortions a year.
Compared to 800,000 births.
The CDC reports 800,000 abortions in the US, compared to 3.9 million births.
That gives France a higher abortion rate relative to live births.
And 250,000 abortions spread over a population of 65 million gives a much higher per capita abortion rate than 800,000 in a population of 310 million.
So there's that.....
You only know one woman who has had an abortion?
Do you live in a convent?
France reports a quarter of a million abortions a year.
Compared to 800,000 births.
The CDC reports 800,000 abortions in the US, compared to 3.9 million births.
That gives France a higher abortion rate relative to live births.
And 250,000 abortions spread over a population of 65 million gives a much higher per capita abortion rate than 800,000 in a population of 310 million.
So there's that.....
43
42
By "money-hungry" of course, you refer to the 47% of US households that pay ZERO Federal Income taxes but clamor for someone else to pay for their abortions and health care?
And ignore the pleas of the Middle Class that they can pay no more?
Those are the money hungry grubbers you refer to, Oui?
By "money-hungry" of course, you refer to the 47% of US households that pay ZERO Federal Income taxes but clamor for someone else to pay for their abortions and health care?
And ignore the pleas of the Middle Class that they can pay no more?
Those are the money hungry grubbers you refer to, Oui?
42
@35 Yep.
And for decades now the right wing has been complaining that it's "too costly". It may be a very good heathcare system, but it's also under attack. Money-hungry people are the same the world over ; they *don't care* for others.
Oh, and the effect of procreation education in highschool ? Teen girls are very seldom pregnant here.
And of all the women that I've come to know in my 20 years of adulthood, only one had an abortion, at 6-8 weeks. All legal, medically supervised, and she paid nothing, of course, neither sonograms nor pills. I think it took about 15 days from start to post-abortion checkup.
And for decades now the right wing has been complaining that it's "too costly". It may be a very good heathcare system, but it's also under attack. Money-hungry people are the same the world over ; they *don't care* for others.
Oh, and the effect of procreation education in highschool ? Teen girls are very seldom pregnant here.
And of all the women that I've come to know in my 20 years of adulthood, only one had an abortion, at 6-8 weeks. All legal, medically supervised, and she paid nothing, of course, neither sonograms nor pills. I think it took about 15 days from start to post-abortion checkup.
40
@35, meanwhile, here in the US G-D of A, I once went with a friend who accidentally got knocked up, while we were in college. She was only 4 weeks along, so a medical abortion was the best option. It was nearly *$1000* for the pills/procedure. Being young and terrified, she paid it, and I spent the rest of the year sneaking food that was going to be thrown out (it was not spoiled, just things they didn't feel they could save and re-serve) from the dining hall I worked at for her, so that she had at least one decent meal a day, since she had spent the equivalent of, basically, her annual food budget on a few pills and 2 sonograms.
38
“I just didn’t know quite about the options other than condoms.”
What the everloving fuck?? BETTER SEX EDUCATION. NOW.
What the everloving fuck?? BETTER SEX EDUCATION. NOW.
36
@35: Oops -- I forgot a category. For women under 18 who *do* have parental consent to an abortion, the same régime applies as for women 18 and over (and their parents' medigap coverage, if they have any, would pick up the copay). It would be a lot simpler if they just covered it 100% for all women. Ditto for contraception, which is only covered 100% for women who are under 18 or are "CMU" (~Medicaid) patients.
35
Meanwhile, France's socialist government just made it so that French national health insurance picks up 100% of the tab for abortions given to women under 18 who don't have parental consent. Abortion is also 100% covered for the equivalent of our Medicaid patients. For women over 18 who aren't destitute, coverage ranges from 70% to 80%, depending on whether the abortion is drug-induced or surgical and whether it's done in a public hospital, private hospital, or doctor's office.
It's hard to nail down the maximum possible copay because of all the possible variables, but it seems to be around $75 for a drug-induced abortion in a doctor's office. Around 85% of French people have private, non-profit medigap policies that pick up most of their copays; for those that don't and can't come up with the copay, the provider can apply for county medical aid. In short, it's pretty unlikely that an abortion would be denied in France because of inability to pay.
It's not a perfect system, by any means, but it's routinely considered one of the best systems in the world and is definitely a lot better than what ours has been (and will be under Obamacare).
It's hard to nail down the maximum possible copay because of all the possible variables, but it seems to be around $75 for a drug-induced abortion in a doctor's office. Around 85% of French people have private, non-profit medigap policies that pick up most of their copays; for those that don't and can't come up with the copay, the provider can apply for county medical aid. In short, it's pretty unlikely that an abortion would be denied in France because of inability to pay.
It's not a perfect system, by any means, but it's routinely considered one of the best systems in the world and is definitely a lot better than what ours has been (and will be under Obamacare).
34
I read through Alleged's posts at #30 and #31, and I can honestly say I have no idea what in God's holy name he is trying to say. http://i45.tinypic.com/2j17m0j.jpg
33
@25 - she got random pills off the Internet, for chrissakes. Whatever was in them was strong enough to cause her to go into premature labour. She had no medical supervision - she's damn lucky she didn't bleed to death. There is a good reason to want abortifacients to be administered under the watch of a medical professional. Also, having miscarried a pregnancy I can tell you it hurts like FUCK. she should never have had to do that alone. This isn't about taking profits away from doctors, but about the right of women to be safe when they are terminating a pregnancy.
32
Oh come ON, Sargon. REALLY!?!?!?!?
As for all of you who can't believe she wasn't using better birth control, this is the reality of small-town America combined with a Mormon upbringing. She didn't know what she didn't know.
Even IF there was a free contraceptive clinic available, these women get fed ALL sorts of disinformation about the supposed dangers of the pill, God's plan for their lives, and a bunch of other crap. Too soon old (and the mother of six) and too late smart.
As for all of you who can't believe she wasn't using better birth control, this is the reality of small-town America combined with a Mormon upbringing. She didn't know what she didn't know.
Even IF there was a free contraceptive clinic available, these women get fed ALL sorts of disinformation about the supposed dangers of the pill, God's plan for their lives, and a bunch of other crap. Too soon old (and the mother of six) and too late smart.
31
You see the ads on TV.
Starving children in Africa.
36¢ a day.
It literally pains you to contemplate the human misery.
But you don't call.
Not because you don't care. You do.
But the overwhelming tidal wave of human suffering that is Africa exhausts you to even think about.
You could feed the starving child in the ad.
But what about the millions more that come online every year?
Your 36¢ would be less than a drop in an endless ocean.
You turn away and try to think about something else.
That was the 20th century.
It is 2012.
You read a post on Slog.
Unemployed uneducated hopeless people and the endless throngs of babies they create, neglect, abuse and kill.
It LITERALLY pains the troll to contemplate the human misery.
What do you do?
If you are a homoliberal you howl at the GOP because they don't tax someone (else) to pay for abortion on demand.
Because the solution is always someone else's money. And Abortion.
If you are the Real American Middle Class?
The people who operate small businesses and have jobs in the private sector and pay the Federal Income taxes that run the country and its social programs?
What do they do?
They believe that extra/premarital sexual behavior is irresponsible and socially devastating.
They believe that Traditional Heterosexual Marriage is the bedrock of a stable prosperous society.
But their values are scorned
and ridiculed
and,
now,
voted away in the HomoLiberal Qunited States of Gommorica.
Danny's Winning!!!
What do you do, Middle Class?
You turn away.
Not because you don't care. You care.
In your soul you acknowledge that you now live in a nation where many babies are better off dead than born.
You grieve more for the 12 year old daughter still in this woman's care than the dead babies in her past.
But in your soul you also acknowledge that there is, literally, nothing you can do about it anymore.
You (and your ever shrinking fellows in the Productive Middle Class) can not pay enough taxes to stem the tide of human misery that is the HomoLiberal Lifestyle.
If you do you will allow this woman and her slut boy friends and the tens of millions like her to drag;
not just their forsaken spawn,
but your children as well;
down into the bottom of their ocean of misery and chaos and death.
You turn away.
There are Two America's now.
The one that wins elections is as far away from you as Africa.
You care.
But you know you can not fix it.
You turn away.
More...
Starving children in Africa.
36¢ a day.
It literally pains you to contemplate the human misery.
But you don't call.
Not because you don't care. You do.
But the overwhelming tidal wave of human suffering that is Africa exhausts you to even think about.
You could feed the starving child in the ad.
But what about the millions more that come online every year?
Your 36¢ would be less than a drop in an endless ocean.
You turn away and try to think about something else.
That was the 20th century.
It is 2012.
You read a post on Slog.
Unemployed uneducated hopeless people and the endless throngs of babies they create, neglect, abuse and kill.
It LITERALLY pains the troll to contemplate the human misery.
What do you do?
If you are a homoliberal you howl at the GOP because they don't tax someone (else) to pay for abortion on demand.
Because the solution is always someone else's money. And Abortion.
If you are the Real American Middle Class?
The people who operate small businesses and have jobs in the private sector and pay the Federal Income taxes that run the country and its social programs?
What do they do?
They believe that extra/premarital sexual behavior is irresponsible and socially devastating.
They believe that Traditional Heterosexual Marriage is the bedrock of a stable prosperous society.
But their values are scorned
and ridiculed
and,
now,
voted away in the HomoLiberal Qunited States of Gommorica.
Danny's Winning!!!
What do you do, Middle Class?
You turn away.
Not because you don't care. You care.
In your soul you acknowledge that you now live in a nation where many babies are better off dead than born.
You grieve more for the 12 year old daughter still in this woman's care than the dead babies in her past.
But in your soul you also acknowledge that there is, literally, nothing you can do about it anymore.
You (and your ever shrinking fellows in the Productive Middle Class) can not pay enough taxes to stem the tide of human misery that is the HomoLiberal Lifestyle.
If you do you will allow this woman and her slut boy friends and the tens of millions like her to drag;
not just their forsaken spawn,
but your children as well;
down into the bottom of their ocean of misery and chaos and death.
You turn away.
There are Two America's now.
The one that wins elections is as far away from you as Africa.
You care.
But you know you can not fix it.
You turn away.
30
21
Yes.
Obama's American't.
Where was Baby Daddy?
Why didn't he take care of his Hoochie Ho Mamma?
After all, all those single women sure don't vote for Barack because of his JFK looks....
Did the Utah GOP promise this woman
food stamps
and a cell phone
and three years unemployment benefits
and free abortion
and to forgive her $46,000 beauty school student loans
and never require her to pay a penny in Federal Income Taxes
and tell her that husband/fathers are not really all that important?
No.
That was Obama and the HumanistHomoLiberals....
You made the Shit Pie.
It's out of the oven. Grab a Fork......
Yes.
Obama's American't.
Where was Baby Daddy?
Why didn't he take care of his Hoochie Ho Mamma?
After all, all those single women sure don't vote for Barack because of his JFK looks....
Did the Utah GOP promise this woman
food stamps
and a cell phone
and three years unemployment benefits
and free abortion
and to forgive her $46,000 beauty school student loans
and never require her to pay a penny in Federal Income Taxes
and tell her that husband/fathers are not really all that important?
No.
That was Obama and the HumanistHomoLiberals....
You made the Shit Pie.
It's out of the oven. Grab a Fork......
29
21
Really?
And?
Did Utah's governor impregnate this poor Idaho resident?
Washington State is also next door to Idaho.
Why didn't the enlightened HomoLiberal Oz kill this woman's baby for her?
Besides-
She is living the Democrap Dream.
Murphy Brown!
What could possibly go wrong?
"Her third child, a boy, was born in 2009. The father was “not a long-term relationship,” she says......"
So What? If it feels good, do it baby!
"When the baby was three months old, she started dating an old friend, Buddy Lee, who had recently gotten out of prison..."
Every Child Deserves..., here we come.....
"Their relationship was tempestuous and occasionally violent; there was at least one restraining order involved. Soon after they’d started dating, she found herself pregnant."
wow. how do these babies keep sneaking into this poor woman's belly...
"Lee took her to the nearest clinic, some 140 miles away in Salt Lake City, and paid for the abortion."
"Then, in 2010, she realized she was pregnant by him again."
WHAT!? buy a lottery ticket, lady....
“I wasn’t being careless or sleeping around all the time,” McCormack says...."
of course not, dear.
"By then, Lee was back in jail—"
o.m.g. why do Bad Things happen to good People? it must be Bush's fault. Or the Governor of Utah, maybe it's HIS fault.
No, Wait; we know- it is State Representative Bubba from Podunk, Utah; it's HIS fault that this woman has a baby in her belly and no husband and no job and no money to pay someone to kill her baby....
DAMN YOU TO HELL, BUBBA!.....
.
is that it, Urg? seriously, dude; put your bong down and take a walk in the fresh air.
More...
Really?
And?
Did Utah's governor impregnate this poor Idaho resident?
Washington State is also next door to Idaho.
Why didn't the enlightened HomoLiberal Oz kill this woman's baby for her?
Besides-
She is living the Democrap Dream.
Murphy Brown!
What could possibly go wrong?
"Her third child, a boy, was born in 2009. The father was “not a long-term relationship,” she says......"
So What? If it feels good, do it baby!
"When the baby was three months old, she started dating an old friend, Buddy Lee, who had recently gotten out of prison..."
Every Child Deserves..., here we come.....
"Their relationship was tempestuous and occasionally violent; there was at least one restraining order involved. Soon after they’d started dating, she found herself pregnant."
wow. how do these babies keep sneaking into this poor woman's belly...
"Lee took her to the nearest clinic, some 140 miles away in Salt Lake City, and paid for the abortion."
"Then, in 2010, she realized she was pregnant by him again."
WHAT!? buy a lottery ticket, lady....
“I wasn’t being careless or sleeping around all the time,” McCormack says...."
of course not, dear.
"By then, Lee was back in jail—"
o.m.g. why do Bad Things happen to good People? it must be Bush's fault. Or the Governor of Utah, maybe it's HIS fault.
No, Wait; we know- it is State Representative Bubba from Podunk, Utah; it's HIS fault that this woman has a baby in her belly and no husband and no job and no money to pay someone to kill her baby....
DAMN YOU TO HELL, BUBBA!.....
.
is that it, Urg? seriously, dude; put your bong down and take a walk in the fresh air.
28
@25
The medically-induced abortion pill (prostaglandin and/or antiprogestogen) is NOT the "morning after pill" (estrogen/progestin), which indeed would not work to terminate an established pregnancy.
Different pills.
The medically-induced abortion pill (prostaglandin and/or antiprogestogen) is NOT the "morning after pill" (estrogen/progestin), which indeed would not work to terminate an established pregnancy.
Different pills.
27
@14 ... and Hitler was a vegetarian. Ban vegetarian restaurants.
What a stupid argument.
I for example think that as long as we have nation states in the world they should have some kind of autonomy. That doesn't mean I think Uganda's kill-the-gays law shouldn't be opposed.
Otherwise it would just be obsessing over the form instead of the function.
What a stupid argument.
I for example think that as long as we have nation states in the world they should have some kind of autonomy. That doesn't mean I think Uganda's kill-the-gays law shouldn't be opposed.
Otherwise it would just be obsessing over the form instead of the function.
25
This story reads like an episode of Trailer Trash Dairies. 14 year olds having babies, a woman with five "husbands" by the time she's thirty, hooking up with men who she knew in high school and was "just out of prison". You can see the cigarette dangling from her hand as she stands with the screen door open.
But the best (worst) part is after she uses the pills to abort, she hides the fetus under her bed!
Not that the social system there is any more intelligent...
Not it's not just the 2nd trimester timeline, but that it was not sanctioned by the state.
I'm starting to smell a rat here...could it be that once everyone finds out that these pills work beyond just the morning after, the whole abortion industry would take a huge nosedive? Along with the associated social system?
Is this really all about disruptive technology...??
But the best (worst) part is after she uses the pills to abort, she hides the fetus under her bed!
After about a week, the box began to emit an odor. McCormack wrapped it up in more bags and put it out on the back porch, on the shelf of a covered barbecue.
Not that the social system there is any more intelligent...
... which makes it a felony for a woman to have an abortion in a manner not sanctioned by the state and carries a possible prison sentence of up to five years.
Not it's not just the 2nd trimester timeline, but that it was not sanctioned by the state.
I'm starting to smell a rat here...could it be that once everyone finds out that these pills work beyond just the morning after, the whole abortion industry would take a huge nosedive? Along with the associated social system?
Is this really all about disruptive technology...??
24
@13, Agreed; I'm of the "fool me once, shame on you/fool me twice, shame on me" school of thought.
23
@#22
I haven't read the whole story - I glanced at the first of five pages - but you are correct: the story says she's lived her whole life in Idaho, and says the nearest clinic offering abortion services is in Salt Lake City. I conclude from this that the woman lives in the southeast corner of Idaho; Salt Lake could be the closest city by a hundred miles, and I have no idea what services can be found in Boise, the runner-up.
I haven't read the whole story - I glanced at the first of five pages - but you are correct: the story says she's lived her whole life in Idaho, and says the nearest clinic offering abortion services is in Salt Lake City. I conclude from this that the woman lives in the southeast corner of Idaho; Salt Lake could be the closest city by a hundred miles, and I have no idea what services can be found in Boise, the runner-up.
22
Heartbreaking. I think what sickens me the most is the invasion of this woman's privacy. Pregnancy and abortion are nobody's business but the pregnant woman's and maybe--maybe--her family's. It's got nothing to do with your church, your sheriff's deputy, or the courts, let alone your assorted small-town busybodies.
One question: the story starts out by saying that the woman has always lived in Idaho, but then refers to Utah's state laws? I think the part about Utah must have been a mistake.
One question: the story starts out by saying that the woman has always lived in Idaho, but then refers to Utah's state laws? I think the part about Utah must have been a mistake.
21
@11,
Obama's America?
Utah's governor is a republican.
Utah's state senate is 3/4 republicans.
Utah's house of representatives is 3/4 republicans.
Utah is a GOP wet dream. But I guess you're right in one regard, people are probably better off dead than living in Utah.
Obama's America?
Utah's governor is a republican.
Utah's state senate is 3/4 republicans.
Utah's house of representatives is 3/4 republicans.
Utah is a GOP wet dream. But I guess you're right in one regard, people are probably better off dead than living in Utah.
19
@2, I'm so sorry to hear that. I naively believed that judges routinely signed off on such waivers of parental notification. What do the young women you've represented usually do next?
16
@13:
I guess this is what happens when you live in isolated, conservative communities. Last summer I met a woman at a party who was 28, fanatically opposed to ingesting any kind of chemical into her body, and had no idea that she could get an IUD that didn't contain hormones. Furthermore, she didn't know how IUDs worked or how effective they were.
When I asked her what she'd used for birth control all these years she just said, "Guess I've been pretty lucky so far."
Zoinks.
“I wasn’t being careless or sleeping around all the time,” McCormack says. “I just didn’t know quite about the options other than condoms.”
I guess this is what happens when you live in isolated, conservative communities. Last summer I met a woman at a party who was 28, fanatically opposed to ingesting any kind of chemical into her body, and had no idea that she could get an IUD that didn't contain hormones. Furthermore, she didn't know how IUDs worked or how effective they were.
When I asked her what she'd used for birth control all these years she just said, "Guess I've been pretty lucky so far."
Zoinks.
15
13
fuck birth control
why hasn't some kindly PP doctor ripped her plumbing out?
for the good of the species?
fuck birth control
why hasn't some kindly PP doctor ripped her plumbing out?
for the good of the species?
14
Well, that's the Stranger's darling "state's rights" for you. What, you thought it only worked for your legalized pot?
13
Horrific. I can't even imagine going through what this woman did. But I also have to ask - after 17 years and three unwanted pregnancies - why was she not on some kind of birth control?
12
@ 5: I mean...it's bad if you don't want to be pregnant, which she did not...
Also, in general, pretty much always bad if you are FOURTEEN YEARS OLD. Did you read the article?
Also, in general, pretty much always bad if you are FOURTEEN YEARS OLD. Did you read the article?
11
the baby is better off.
these lives are fucked up on so many levels that killing her child is barely a blip on the screen.
Gommorah.
please don't act surprised or disappointed.
these lives are fucked up on so many levels that killing her child is barely a blip on the screen.
Gommorah.
please don't act surprised or disappointed.
10
http://www.facebook.com/WeSupportJennieL… This page has information on how to support Jennie Linn.
9
@5 She was fourteen and didn't want to be pregnant. So, yeah, in those circumstances pregnant = bad. Jesus Christ.
Would you consider having an unwanted parasite growing inside of you "not bad"?
Would you consider having an unwanted parasite growing inside of you "not bad"?
8
If you're an innocent, trusting teenager? Yeah, being pregnant is cataclysmic. Even suicide-worthy. "Bad" can be an understatement.
Then too, I've known teens who've deliberately gotten pregnant so they'd have someone they believed would love them unconditionally. And some teenage boys who believed that the true mark of a man was how many girls he could get pregnant. Not care for, just knock up. Looking after babies was "woman's work", not his problem.
Seriously, we need so much more education it makes my head hurt.
Then too, I've known teens who've deliberately gotten pregnant so they'd have someone they believed would love them unconditionally. And some teenage boys who believed that the true mark of a man was how many girls he could get pregnant. Not care for, just knock up. Looking after babies was "woman's work", not his problem.
Seriously, we need so much more education it makes my head hurt.
5
This is very unsettling on many levels. "Because he was older and she was a virgin, she trusted him when he said nothing bad would happen if they had sex. The first time they did, she got pregnant." Being Pregnant = Bad? Ladies is that true?
3
Do you think hardcore pro-life people care about the well-being of the woman? Not for a minute. Not for a second. They think a woman who does the things that get her in that condition should pay the price. Women, they believe, aren't supposed to enjoy sex, but rather use it merely as a tool to procreate.
Guys, on the other hand, can fuck around all they want. We don't approve wholeheartedly, they say, but boys will be boys.
Abortion is a horrible, horrible thing for everyone concerned. Put me in the safe, legal, rare, and unnecessary camp. We have to do more so that women have the knowledge and means to avoid it.
Guys, on the other hand, can fuck around all they want. We don't approve wholeheartedly, they say, but boys will be boys.
Abortion is a horrible, horrible thing for everyone concerned. Put me in the safe, legal, rare, and unnecessary camp. We have to do more so that women have the knowledge and means to avoid it.
2
I am occasionally appointed to represent girls under the age of 18 who are asking a court to grant them permission to have an abortion without parental notification. The courage these girls show to go into a judge's chambers with attorneys and discuss their situation always impresses me. Knowing that the judge has always said no - sickens me.
1
Welcome to GOP America!!!
This is what Rob McKenna, Mitt Romney and all the GOP members of Congress want for all Americans!! It's their hope and dream!! And you can live it right now in Utah!
This is what Rob McKenna, Mitt Romney and all the GOP members of Congress want for all Americans!! It's their hope and dream!! And you can live it right now in Utah!
Comments (44) RSS