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Here on Slog, I've been told to stop talking about rape culture, that such things are rare, and most women are overestimating the risk and are wrong/paranoid to act fearfully. Thanks, Cienna, for keeping up the good work.
Posted by wxPDX on January 2, 2013 at 1:35 PM · Report this
Two things about this:
1. It's disgusting what teenage boys will say in the company of other teenage boys. No question. I've heard worse than this and, if I could go back in time 16yrs, I'd probably kick my own ass for some of the stupid shit that came out of my mouth.
2. All hope isn't lost; you can hear at least a couple of the guys having a problem with it. It isn't much, I admit, but it's more of a protest than many kids that age will make when their friend is being an asshole. It's better than nothing.

Someone needs to hit this little shit. Often, and with enthusiasm.
Posted by NateMan on January 2, 2013 at 1:45 PM · Report this
"Raped harder than the Duke Lacrosse team."

Wasn't that the case where it turned out the woman had lied about her gang rape?
Posted by GermanSausage on January 2, 2013 at 1:45 PM · Report this
I saw this on Jezebel. There are so many ways this is wrong I have no place to start. Until we no longer live in a world where any man feels that physical strength trumps human rights, women will not ever feel completely safe. I wonder how those little shits would feel if they were anally raped themselves. Not so funny then, I would bet.
Posted by SeattleKim on January 2, 2013 at 1:47 PM · Report this
Bauhaus I 5
Yeah, this kind of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud. Parental guidance, please! But you are also right in saying that high schools students are notoriously unschooled in life and can say some pretty heartless shit. They haven't been raped or they don't know anyone who is has been raped. I'm guessing if this genius had a sister who'd been attacked, he'd be a tad more sensitive (not advocating that!).

Seems to me this is the story of a young man who has lost touch with his parents (or vice versa) and has been given some wrong ideas about what a man is, what a woman is, what's really important in life through, maybe, peer pressure or beer ads on TV. Who knows?

It's now time for someone with an IQ above 80 to sit down with him and put this young man back on track.
Posted by Bauhaus I on January 2, 2013 at 1:54 PM · Report this
Bauhaus I 6
...oh and happy new year, Cienna. Looking forward to reading your stuff in 2013.
Posted by Bauhaus I on January 2, 2013 at 1:56 PM · Report this
Knat 8
I got through about 5 minutes of stupid rehashes of "raped harder than" jokes(?!) and lazy, incoherent sports references before I couldn't stand any more.

With the proliferation of the Internet, you can't say stupid shit like this anymore and expect it won't bite you in the ass. Even if this was some elaborate performance art/joke, it won't matter. In the future, any potential employer worth his salt will Google this kid's name and find a reference to this, proving the kid doesn't have the common sense and discretion to merit hiring him.
Posted by Knat on January 2, 2013 at 2:10 PM · Report this
As horrible as it looks I always hesitate to jump on an internet vigilante justice bandwagon, no matter how tempting. There just isn't enough reliable information about what actually happened.
Posted by matt! on January 2, 2013 at 2:16 PM · Report this
34x42 11
is it still cool to joke about killing someone?
Posted by 34x42 on January 2, 2013 at 2:17 PM · Report this
treacle 12
Arg. I feel sorry for boys like that, so far they have to go to comprehend even the slightest sense of what equality means.
But so much sorrier especially for the girl in question, but also the other girls in that H.S. that they have to deal with these privileged dips on a daily basis.
Posted by treacle on January 2, 2013 at 2:17 PM · Report this
@7 If you are right, then link that shit. Otherwise stop trying to imply there's any other issue besides these assholes are in the wrong and society should punish them.

I for one hope these fuckers never get a job offer, whether or not they are guilty of this particular rape. Their attitude is literally intolerable. It is about time that decent humans used the power of the internet as effectively as toxic pieces of shit like this.
Posted by sahara29 on January 2, 2013 at 2:30 PM · Report this
heywhatsit!? 14
Guh. I was hoping 2013 would start off a little better than this.
Posted by heywhatsit!? on January 2, 2013 at 2:38 PM · Report this
Nobody has mentioned high school football. Specifically the culture of entitlement that surrounds small town high school football. These kids are not just random douches, but part of a football team that can do no wrong. It's not just them, but all the adults in their community that care FAR more about a fast 40 than they do anything else, up to and including violent felonies. And if you think this is just about small town mid-west football "circle the wagons" bullshit, look up Jerramy Stevens, University of Washington, and King County Prosecutors office and you'll see it can happen anywhere.
Posted by Westside forever on January 2, 2013 at 2:39 PM · Report this
That stupid, stupid kid. Not only drunk, but high too, I'd bet. You know how funny everything is when you're high. What an idiot.
Posted by hereiswheremynamegoes on January 2, 2013 at 2:41 PM · Report this
blip 18
#16 Is a miserable shut-in who has never touched another person's naked body (consentually).
Posted by blip on January 2, 2013 at 2:50 PM · Report this
Fnarf 19
You people are missing the point, as always. Whatever these boys may or may not have done, which in a civilized society would play out in a court of law, the worse crime here is what the ADULTS have done. The special classes for athletes, the organized cheating resulting in a 100% pass rate, the protection from prosecution, the provision by adults of drugs and alcohol (including the roofie that allegedly knocked out this girl) as a reward for football performance, to say nothing of the illicit photos of naked underage students on the booster's cell phone: we've heard all of this before. Usually it's at the college level, but Steubenville is a pretty small town. This is where the real crime lies: it's a criminal conspiracy in which these boys, while undoubtedly sociopaths and criminals, are just pawns in the bigger game. It's the bigger game that needs to be taken down. If you just hit a couple of these boys, there will be new ones doing the same thing next year.

This is going to tear this high school and this town apart, and they richly deserve it for letting this poison into every corner of their institutions, not just the high school but the court house and the sheriff's office.
Posted by Fnarf on January 2, 2013 at 2:52 PM · Report this
venomlash 21
#20 is a big fat poopyhead.
Posted by venomlash on January 2, 2013 at 3:12 PM · Report this
@19 I'm guessing your not much of a sports fan, Fnarf.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM · Report this
I remember all too well hearing stuff like this being said by high school football and hockey players decades ago. I keep hoping the world will get better and it seems to have gotten a tiny bit better, but we still have such a long way to go. Hopefully these boys will actually pay for their crime. In my youth, boys like them always got away with it as far as I could tell.

#16: You sound very much like a guy I was stupid enough to date, but smart enough to dump
Posted by swing state voter on January 2, 2013 at 3:20 PM · Report this
Just a footnote: though this kid doesn't appear to know it, the Duke lacrosse players were falsely accused. Last month their accuser was deemed mentally competent to stand trial for her boyfriend's murder.
Posted by Tim Appelo on January 2, 2013 at 3:30 PM · Report this
heywhatsit!? 25
Something tells me this kid is going to inherit his dad's lumber yard or whatever. He'll be clueless and sheltered his entire life, just the way his parents intended.
Posted by heywhatsit!? on January 2, 2013 at 3:46 PM · Report this
emma's bee 26
@22: I take it you've not been hanging around Slog during World Cup season.
Posted by emma's bee on January 2, 2013 at 3:48 PM · Report this
TortoiseTurtle 27
If we lived in a 'culture of rape', would this be causing outrage? It really takes a massive leap in logic to extrapolate shitty behavior and callous comments by a couple of highschoolers into an entire 'culture.'

We live in an anti-rape culture. Videos of people making jokes isn't going to change that fact.
Posted by TortoiseTurtle on January 2, 2013 at 3:51 PM · Report this
@26 Maybe I'm wrong about Fnarf not being a sport fan, but I still think he's being a bit of a moralistic sour puss about the way high school and college athletes are treated. Schools shouldn't cover up rapes for the sake of a good football program, but if some rich alum wants to ply members of the team w/ hookers and blow why is that a big deal? If some stupid law prevented colleges from paying Dan a speaking fee, would anybody be surprised if people connected to the places where he answered students' sex questions hooked him up w/ free dinners at fancy restaurants or some kind bud or whatever?
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 4:46 PM · Report this
Fnarf 29
@22, season ticket holder for the Sounders. I watched Tottenham Hotspur mangle Reading yesterday in a sports bar. I'm not normally much of a gridiron fan but I did watch the last two Seahawks games, or most of them, and I've seen them play live, as well as the Sonics (in the Coliseum and the Kingdome), Mariners (starting in 1977), Pilots (in Sicks Stadium), Thunderbirds, Totems, and Rainiers (Sicks again) play, as well as the Huskies once, long long ago -- including once in Stanford's stadium. I watched the Dallas Cowboys beat the Detroit Lions in a famous 5-0 playoff game at the Cotton Bowl, and saw both the first game and the first regular-season game at the old Texas Stadium. I've attended three different codes of football matches in stadiums on three continents, including Anfield in Liverpool and what was then called the Tesla Dome in Melbourne. I've seen the Harlem Globetrotters twice. I saw the longest nine-inning game in history (since surpassed) in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium, against the Red Sox, on the hottest day in the history of the universe, with the added bonus of having a dozen Yankees fans dump beer on me while trying to throw it on a drunken Red Sox fan who more than deserved it (I did not). I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours compiling baseball statistics, including a couple of my own invention. One of my earliest memories is seeing Mickey Mantle's grotesquely swollen knees as he prepared to bat in his final season. I (or my family) was a Sports Illustrated subscriber for more than thirty years. I have several thousand baseball cards and over one hundred enamel Spurs pins. I have a library of close to a hundred volumes of books on baseball and soccer. One of my proudest moments was when I got a letter to the editor printed in The Sporting News. It was about Babe Ruth's slugging percentage.

Oh, yeah, and I am the world's worst fly fisherman. Does that count?

What happened in Steubenville, like what happened at Penn State and what happened here at the UW under Rick Neuheisel, is not "sports". I am a sports fan. I am not a rape fan, or a criminal coverup fan, or a subversion of justice fan, or a perversion of educational institutions fan. To suggest that being a sports fan means turning a blind eye to the things that went on at this high school is an attitude I would very much like to stamp out forever. You?
Posted by Fnarf on January 2, 2013 at 4:57 PM · Report this
heywhatsit!? 30
Thanks for the resume, Fnarf.
Posted by heywhatsit!? on January 2, 2013 at 5:04 PM · Report this
@27 This is causing such a stir because A) Anonymous very publicly outed all those involved in the conspiracy, and B) There is no doubt that they are guilty of drugging and raping this girl. How many times do you hear people say a girl was "asking for it" because she drank too much, or was wearing slutty cloths?
Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER on January 2, 2013 at 5:07 PM · Report this
Fnarf 32
@28, I'm going to start calling you "Osmium".

Why don't you ask the parents of girls at that high school if they think it's OK to provide the football team with "hookers and blow"? Especially if the "hookers" in question are their underage daughters, and they're not hookers at all, they're drugged-up rape victims? That's what we're talking about here.

Seriously, do you listen to yourself before you post?

They're covering up a disgusting group rape here, because they are protecting the football program. How is it possible for you to not see this? It's happened a thousand times before. Need I remind you that the purpose of a high school is not football at all, it's education. And a fine one these boys are getting, too. The football team at this high school employs NINETEEN COACHES. How many librarians do you think they have? Or Spanish teachers?

Hookers and blow? What the fuck? We're talking about the sheriff and a county prosecutor providing criminal cover here.
Posted by Fnarf on January 2, 2013 at 5:08 PM · Report this
Rap isnt that bad.
Posted by LetterForgetter on January 2, 2013 at 5:15 PM · Report this
@Ken, what Fnarf describes in sports culture is pretty much true. I love sports, I grew up in a super sporty family, two of my uncles were drafted in MLB, one uncle was coaching in the NFL until 2011, shit, there's two Olympians in my family. So, I've been around sports a lot, the sense of entitlement is mind blowing. I'm glad my own family described me as a two tool catcher,so I could move on and pursue my own interests and get away from the douchiness. Sports are awesome, I watch entirely too much baseball but the culture is fucked up.
Posted by CbytheSea on January 2, 2013 at 5:39 PM · Report this
@32 I agree that what went on at Penn State, and apparently in Steubenville as well, was over the line and shouldn't be tolerated. I don't understand why anybody would get upset about football players being allowed to ditch class. Do you think education is the reason those guys are in school? Really?
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 5:43 PM · Report this
@24, we live in a lying-about-rape culture. Things are never going to change until we start teaching girls it's not OK to lie about rape.
Posted by GermanSausage on January 2, 2013 at 5:46 PM · Report this
@34 I'm not taking issue with Fnarf's description of sports culture. What I'm saying is that, except in cases where the cover up of a serious crime is involved, I don't see a problem with it.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 5:51 PM · Report this
@35 for football players it's even more important they get an education. No guaranteed contracts and if you do play football on that level, you're body will be way too messed up to do manual labor.
But back to Fnarf's point about a culture of entitlement and generally douchiness. Being allowed to skip class completely feeds into that, it's a profound message you're sending to the kid.
Posted by CbytheSea on January 2, 2013 at 5:54 PM · Report this
@37 you think it's okay to believe you are above the social norms and laws due to a task you can perform?
Posted by CbytheSea on January 2, 2013 at 5:58 PM · Report this
There is no such thing as rape culture. It's a made up academic/feminist/far left term. Rape in the US is treated as a serious crime and is relatively rare. The concept is as unserious and absurd as the "legitimate rape" theories that exist on the radical right.

Posted by ryanmm on January 2, 2013 at 5:58 PM · Report this
Fnarf 41
@37, you're incapable of making the most obvious of connections, though. It's not just a "culture of entitlement", it's a culture of covering up crimes if their exposure threatens the football program. It's not just one or two cases, it's in HUNDREDS of them -- and there is not a university in the country that wouldn't do exactly the same thing as Penn State did, or the UW did, or any of the other schools. It's rarer in high school, because there's not usually that much money on the line in high school -- but it's getting more common.

It is a straight line between the jock entitlement privileges and coverups of small offenses, like fake classes and fake grades, and the bigger deal of rapes, spousal abuses, and murders. It's rather disingenuous to deny that that's what's happening when this very item is about that happening.

Pro sports are different, because pro sports are a business -- and their business is the one it says on the tin: sports. And the athletes are paid a fair wage, not tricked into slavery. Schools are different, because the stated mission of any school is education, not sports. But we all know that's not true in practice. And every school, including this high school, has a deep well of resentment from people who DON'T get to cut those corners and are in fact endlessly screwed by their institution's misplaced priorities.
Posted by Fnarf on January 2, 2013 at 6:06 PM · Report this
@39 I think people who work their asses off honing a skill that allows them to perform a difficult task that thousands of screaming fans love seeing them perform are entitled to some form of compensation. Players in highly competitive college football programs deserve to be paid, but we have a hypocritical system of rules that prevents that from happening. So colleges find other ways to keep their star athletes happy. Is that so wrong?
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 6:22 PM · Report this
@41 "It is a straight line between the jock entitlement privileges and coverups of small offenses, like fake classes and fake grades, and the bigger deal of rapes, spousal abuses, and murders."

It's a straight line, but it's a long line. I don't think it's disingenuous to say that educational institutions should only be punished for covering up the misdeeds of their football players and coaches in extreme cases, like Penn State.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 6:37 PM · Report this
@42 it is dumb that colleges don't pay their players. Especially since so few will make in the NFL and the colleges make a lot of money off the players. We cant say there's a set of laws for people and then another set for people with fans, thats a gross misuse of the concept of justice.
Posted by CbytheSea on January 2, 2013 at 6:40 PM · Report this
Fnarf 45
@43, you are such a fucking idiot. Read a fucking book. Start with "The Cartel" by Taylor Branch. It's short, a hundred pages. Then move on to "Scoreboard, Baby". There is a voluminous literature on why big-time college sports, and increasingly high school sports as well, are completely corrupt top to bottom.

"Keep their star athletes happy" -- WHY? Tell me again why colleges should have football programs in the first place? And since when does "keep them happy" mean "protect them from the law when they rape unconscious underage girls they have drugged"?
Posted by Fnarf on January 2, 2013 at 6:42 PM · Report this
I wouldn't say we live in a culture of rape, but we clearly live in a culture where at least a few noteworthy individuals (and high school fucktards) are shockingly unconcerned and heartless about the reality of rape, and even lie about rape, for political gain (though it amounted to nothing but political loss, which was awesome). I think in this kid's case, it's Internet Culture that's a problem: uninformed, vomitous, inane drivel freely spewed to the entire computer-using world. I don't see where this is going somewhere *good*.
Posted by Racing Turtles on January 2, 2013 at 6:43 PM · Report this
Rape culture? What rape culture?

The website allows users to label any woman a "potential prostitute" by submitting her photo, phone number and location. This information is then posted on the site without the woman's consent. If someone wishes to be removed from the site, they are asked to pay a one-time fee of $99.95.…
Posted by Won't be knitting mittens on January 2, 2013 at 7:04 PM · Report this
Free Lunch 50
What a shithole Steubenville looks like. No wonder they throw their whole lives into their football team.

That said, Traci Lords is from there, so they have that.

@40 - Your trying to convince us that rape is "relatively rare" tells me that rape culture is alive and well. 16% of women in the US are victims of rape or attempted rapes in their lifetimes. 29% of women in the military are raped. Still sound rare to you? Or are these not legitimate rapes?
Posted by Free Lunch on January 2, 2013 at 7:08 PM · Report this
@45 Colleges should have football programs because people like football. People like football teams that are associated with educational institutions that they go to, graduated from, or live near. People like the romantic notion of student-athletes, but they also want their team to win. So, college football programs are saddled w/ an unrealistic set of rules about how they treat their players. A set of rules nobody really expects them to follow. Your as naive as the Tea Bagger who is against amnesty for illegal aliens, because all those people (gasp) broke the law when they came into our country illegally. In both cases, yes a rule was broken, but it was the kind of rule people are encouraged to break.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 7:28 PM · Report this
@38 I think we're sending young people the right message by letting jocks get away with shit. Click here and skip to the 00:50 mark, you'll see what I mean.…
Posted by Ken Mehlman on January 2, 2013 at 7:41 PM · Report this
@2 I volunteer to take a turn.

@7 Troll harder, n00b.

@11 If it's one of these shitstains, JOKE ON!

@51 The core problem is that the NFL and NBA are too fucking cheap to set up a decent farm system like MLB and the NHL have. The fact is that this sort of corrupt bullshit does not happen with college baseball and college hockey at anywhere near the level as it does with football and basketball. The reason is simple -- the people who want to play baseball or hockey professionally start doing so immediately out of high school. No passing go, no absurd scholarships or hypocrisy. They just go get an entry level job doing what they want to be doing.

With basketball and football, we've reached the absurd state where colleges and providing the farm system for professional sports. FUCK THAT SHIT.
Posted by rocketgeek on January 2, 2013 at 10:01 PM · Report this
Pick1 56
"I'm not going to apologize about the rapists, that was terrible."

*Proceed to apologize for the rapists*

See I can be one of the informative trolls too!
Posted by Pick1 on January 2, 2013 at 10:55 PM · Report this
watchout5 57
"by the anonymous hacking collective known as Anonymous"

Laziest journalism in the world. What the fuck is this even? There's a group of anonymous people with some kind of council making decisions for justice or evil? Fucking no. There are people who exist on the internet who have enough balls to claim you'll never know who they are/were and they are doing things because they believe in them. THESE ARE INDIVIDUAL ANONYMOUS HACKERS MAKING INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS. Calling this a collective is wrong, lazy and counter productive to the movement. When you are hacked or exposed by anonymous what you are saying is that you have no idea who exposed you. Remember that scene from Odysseus? "Nobody is my name" Please use English better. >.
Posted by watchout5 on January 3, 2013 at 3:30 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 59
For fuck's sake, the comments in this thread are a complete wankfest of male privilege. Sports! Me, I talk better about sports, wank wank! No, I talk better about sports, wank, spurt, gurgle.

@58 gets it.
Posted by femwanderluster on January 3, 2013 at 10:55 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 63
@62 No, these particular males are exhibiting privilege by turning a discussion about rape culture into a discussion about them and sports.
Male privilege=making everything male-centric.
But wank on, by all means.
Posted by femwanderluster on January 3, 2013 at 7:40 PM · Report this
I'd like to see a high school or college that had no sports programs, only education.

Surely there must be enough people in America who would want to go to something like that.
Posted by James Hutchings on January 4, 2013 at 3:48 AM · Report this
Eva Hopkins 65
I sometimes literally laugh out loud when reading the 'net. Today I physically scratched my head while reading this thread.
"NEWS ITEM: Hai you guys, look at this horrible facet of/product of rape culture, brought to us by Anonymous. That poor girl, those asshole football player guys."

THREAD: "What rape culture? Let's talk about sports. If you wanna talk a culture, clearly this is a SPORTS culture, not a rape culture.
And if you disagree, you're a radical feminist."

What am I, on Rush Limbaugh's site by mistake or summat?

I had this discussion with my older brother, who is a smart, good-hearted sort of guy. He didn't understand the idea of rape culture or how rape permeates so much of a woman's life. I gave him the example of computers. They have main processes/programs & subroutines.

Scenario: you have left a club, late at night, in the city. You need to walk to the Metro/subway to get back home. As you walk onto a long block, someone turns the corner & is now on the same block, side of the street opposite you, but walking towards you.

A man in this situation: his main process is calculating the route & putting his body in motion. I can't presume to know what their subroutine is, but my brother would likely be analyzing the show, did he like the choice of songs by the band, did he find the trip/ticket price/show to his liking.

After a brief subconscious check of person across the street for potential threat or to see if they know them, the main train of thought takes back over if neither of those things happens.

A woman in the same position, once the person across the street has been spotted, is likely a whole host of alarm bells pop up as a complex set of subroutines. Immediately the calculations begin.."if person across the street begins to approach me, how close am I to the nearest storefront/taxi/other escape route? Are the shoes I'm wearing good to run in? Do I have my hand on my cel phone/keys/mace/etc?"..& it's not a conscious thing. Most women I've talked to about it acknowledge a certain degree of basic unsafe-feeling they have if they go out at night alone. Maybe not all neighborhoods & maybe not always, but frequently. That coworker that looks at you too long could be a rapist. So could the guy who took you out for drinks. The cashier at the grocery store. Anyone.

The entitlement that comes with sports culture is part of the problem. But rape culture is out there. I don't mean the kinky stuff people get up to in their consensual free time, either. It's not sex-negative to talk about this.

I have worked for many years in comic books & was told earnestly that there was no sexism in the comic book industry, by a male college somewhat younger than myself. He'd never seen it, he explained, so it couldn't be real. Good on him if ppl have magically somehow sorted all that out, but is statement is a typical male reaction to the idea of rape culture. It doesn't exist, because it doesn't happen to you.

I hope that poor girl is getting some serious psychological care. Imagine this being out there int he world, & it's about you. I don't like the "public square" aspect of what Anonymous has done but it's forcing actual examination/conversation. Maybe it will help a few other young people avoid this situation in either role.

If agreeing that rape culture exists makes one some angry radical crazy feminist, BTW, fine, that's who I am. And I forgot to shave my legs this week, so let me confirm that assumption also. ;)

Posted by Eva Hopkins on January 4, 2013 at 4:37 AM · Report this
Eva Hopkins 66
BTW: yes, I know men have been attacked & raped. It's horrible when anyone abuses anyone. The above rant is about your more typical configuration of sexual violence. Thx.
Posted by Eva Hopkins on January 4, 2013 at 4:39 AM · Report this
sissoucat 67
@Eva Hopkins

Thank you so much for your rant.

Yes, being a female means knowing, from early childhood on, that one is at high risk of being snatched and never heard from again. Getting older, one is told about rape. As adults, rape is always a possibility for us, strongest when out with "bad persons". And if we do happen to meet those "bad persons" and become a victim of them, we're told we haven't been careful enough.

Removing the "bad persons" from society is never considered as valid an option as telling females to be extra cautious.

Besides, don't worry about shaving your legs. Real men and real women don't obsess over someone else's pilosity. Natural, hairy legs, as nature intended : gorgeous.
Posted by sissoucat on January 4, 2013 at 8:03 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 68
Yes, thanks to @65 for getting back on topic.

@66 is unnecessary, but does point directly to a symptom of rape culture--men always have to be acknowledged in the discussion to soothe their sensitivity to being associated with the gender that perpetrates 99.99% of rape and sexual violence. Ugh, get over yourselves. Got a problem with other men making women fear men in general? Take it up with other men. Speak up when a douchedick spouts rape apologia. Hold yourself and your friends accountable for your words and attitudes. Rape culture devalues women's autonomy and voice--help your sisters out. The kinds of guys who don't respect women do respect other guys; that's how the culture will change.
Posted by femwanderluster on January 4, 2013 at 10:27 AM · Report this
Lissa 69
65-68: Thank you both so much.
Posted by Lissa on January 4, 2013 at 12:00 PM · Report this
@68: Painting with so broad a brush risks alienating potential allies. Yeah, you have to acknowledge where your allies are at in the discussion if you want them to get on board with what you're saying. Sorry. That's just the way it works. You don't get to just demand things of innocent, uninvolved people... and you certainly aren't going to be very compelling if you're dragging people into being blamed for the crimes of other people by making them party to some imagined "rape culture". You can be pissed, or you can be effective. Up to you, and no sweat off my ass, either way.
Posted by pheeeew!crack!boom! on January 4, 2013 at 3:02 PM · Report this
@70--think of it this way: If women are scared of men they don't know well, they're less likely to chat with men on the subway, smile at men on the street, or accept a walk/ride home after a party. Is that a world you want? It's not the world I want.

So, it's in men's best interest to tell the jerks and rapists who make women feel unsafe to knock that shit off.
Posted by clashfan on January 4, 2013 at 3:11 PM · Report this
@70, 71: Additionally, those men who say that rape culture is "imagined" also contribute to the problem. When a person tells me that, what he is saying is that women are exaggerating, overestimating risk, and making shit up. That regardless of what my experience has been, there is nothing wrong on a cultural level. If someone denies the existence of rape culture, and minimizes the difficult (sometimes traumatic) experiences of women in the process, they are part of the problem of silence surrounding sexual assault.

Maybe the phrase "rape culture" just offends people. The more accurate phrase would be something like, "the choices/feelings/perceptions of half our population as a result of the likelihood of sexual assault, the experiences of our friends and ourselves with sexual assault, the way assault victims are treated by the media/justice system, and the constant exposure to various elements of culture that reinforce the idea that women lack autonomy and/or exist primarily for the sexual gratification of men". Or something like that.
Posted by wxPDX on January 4, 2013 at 4:40 PM · Report this
@59, @65, It's bizarre to me (woman, feminist) that the discussion here is being dismissed because it's not about the moment of rape in every post. Talking about sports culture IS talking about rape culture, because one is being used to house the other. I take this to be Ffnarf's point, and a few others', too. Surely if one wants people, including men, to actively engage in the business of figuring out how and where masculinity supports rape (i.e. to examine rape culture, instead of making it women's problem) this is exactly the discussion that needs to happen. How are the institutions setting up a sneaky privilege and cover-up system? How can that be dismantled? These ARE the important questions!
Posted by diner mo on January 4, 2013 at 8:18 PM · Report this

About Victims

44% of victims are under age 18
80% are under age 30

Sexual Assault Numbers

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted
There is an average of 207,754 victims (age 12 or older) of sexual assault each year

Reporting to Police

54% of sexual assaults are not reported to the police
97% of rapists will never spend a day in jail

About Rapists

Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance
Posted by harriettubman on January 4, 2013 at 11:01 PM · Report this
Lissa 75
@70: Of course it's no sweat off your ass. I don't doubt that for a moment. Not a single moment.
Posted by Lissa on January 4, 2013 at 11:37 PM · Report this
sissoucat 76
@70 You're not a potential ally.

Patronizing, minimizing, and trying to stop the debate - you call that being an ally ?

I'm not saying you're a rapist, though. But you say you do feel uninvolved in what happens to 51% of human beings. You were born out of a woman, may I remind you. No female can turn her back on every male's issue. And no male can turn his back on every female's issue.

If you don't feel solidarity nor compassion for an abused majority - then you're a definite enemy.
Posted by sissoucat on January 5, 2013 at 8:00 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 77
You know, Fnarf was not just bringing up sports because he wanted to talk about sports due to his ownership of testicles. They were not arguing box scores, for heaven's sake.

He was bringing up how sports culture (which many men belong to) contributes to the culture of entitlement everyone is blaming for events such as these. If you indeed believe that male entitlement leads to rape, the sports culture is the incubator of many males and often where they get a large portion of their male role models, for better or for worse. It should be examined.

If you want to change the culture you can not just ignore a large segment of the culture, just because you do not like sports, and you should not simply ignore someone trying to expand an understanding of the topic just because of their gender.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on January 5, 2013 at 11:24 AM · Report this
i'm pro-science and i vote 78
Unfortunately this shit society of ours still rewards jock-bro fuckers like this, for being jock-bro fuckers. To most people they probably seem like the charismatic, confident, standard American boys we've all been expected to grow up as. And they hide their dark side from them. When they unwind with their buddies they're their true selves, selfish careless little monsters. Actually not so 'little' when they end up raping girls, bullying other people, teaching younger kids that it's respectable to be an asshole, etc. You know, 'boys will be boys'. This is going to keep happening because this is our culture. We just aren't civilized enough to love and respect one another, and loving and respecting one another in this culture, for the most part, is considered being a pussy. A lot of young men in this country strive to be as opposite as they possibly can be from being a 'pussy'. So this is what we get

This happens more often than some may think, just doesn't always get a) recorded and b) published online. The guys in this video, hell millions of guys like the ones in this video, are going to land good careers, get laid often, marry beautiful people etc. Figure that one out

I sure hope everyone seen and heard in this video will be forced to stand trial. An earlier commenter said something about how, at least someone in the video spoke out about how raping this girl wasn't cool. Fuck that, if your buddy just raped someone you call the cops and do everything you can to help the victim and get her the hell out of there
Posted by i'm pro-science and i vote on January 5, 2013 at 11:42 AM · Report this
i'm pro-science and i vote 79
"In spite of the abduction and attack’s high profile in social media, townspeople have been reluctant to aid the prosecution of the crime in any way, lest it jeopardize The Big Red’s chances at another state championship."

The Big Red is the football team these high schoolers are in.…
Posted by i'm pro-science and i vote on January 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM · Report this
Bonefish 80
42: When that "compensation" takes the form of officials turning a blind eye when they violate other people, then yes. Yes it is wrong.
Posted by Bonefish on January 5, 2013 at 7:22 PM · Report this
I had to have "that conversation" with my daughter just today about what attempting to safeguard her personal safety on at college would be like for her next year. Damn. I sure wish my own mom had had that conversation with me when I was 18. Four rape attempts in my first month at college taught me a lot.
Posted by Sarah in Olympia on January 6, 2013 at 12:12 AM · Report this
Justice will be served cold buffet style: I'm sure these dudes will get raped when they're in jail.
Posted by fotoeve on January 6, 2013 at 1:53 AM · Report this

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