Slog Comments
"She is so raped. Her puss is about as dry as the sun right now."
1
Here on Slog, I've been told to stop talking about rape culture, that such things are rare, and most women are overestimating the risk and are wrong/paranoid to act fearfully. Thanks, Cienna, for keeping up the good work.
2
Two things about this:
1. It's disgusting what teenage boys will say in the company of other teenage boys. No question. I've heard worse than this and, if I could go back in time 16yrs, I'd probably kick my own ass for some of the stupid shit that came out of my mouth.
2. All hope isn't lost; you can hear at least a couple of the guys having a problem with it. It isn't much, I admit, but it's more of a protest than many kids that age will make when their friend is being an asshole. It's better than nothing.
Someone needs to hit this little shit. Often, and with enthusiasm.
1. It's disgusting what teenage boys will say in the company of other teenage boys. No question. I've heard worse than this and, if I could go back in time 16yrs, I'd probably kick my own ass for some of the stupid shit that came out of my mouth.
2. All hope isn't lost; you can hear at least a couple of the guys having a problem with it. It isn't much, I admit, but it's more of a protest than many kids that age will make when their friend is being an asshole. It's better than nothing.
Someone needs to hit this little shit. Often, and with enthusiasm.
3
"Raped harder than the Duke Lacrosse team."
Wasn't that the case where it turned out the woman had lied about her gang rape?
Wasn't that the case where it turned out the woman had lied about her gang rape?
4
I saw this on Jezebel. There are so many ways this is wrong I have no place to start. Until we no longer live in a world where any man feels that physical strength trumps human rights, women will not ever feel completely safe. I wonder how those little shits would feel if they were anally raped themselves. Not so funny then, I would bet.
5
Yeah, this kind of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud. Parental guidance, please! But you are also right in saying that high schools students are notoriously unschooled in life and can say some pretty heartless shit. They haven't been raped or they don't know anyone who is has been raped. I'm guessing if this genius had a sister who'd been attacked, he'd be a tad more sensitive (not advocating that!).
Seems to me this is the story of a young man who has lost touch with his parents (or vice versa) and has been given some wrong ideas about what a man is, what a woman is, what's really important in life through, maybe, peer pressure or beer ads on TV. Who knows?
It's now time for someone with an IQ above 80 to sit down with him and put this young man back on track.
Seems to me this is the story of a young man who has lost touch with his parents (or vice versa) and has been given some wrong ideas about what a man is, what a woman is, what's really important in life through, maybe, peer pressure or beer ads on TV. Who knows?
It's now time for someone with an IQ above 80 to sit down with him and put this young man back on track.
7
If he was black, and rapping this, Cienna would be writing about this in the 'Arts' section praising him for his honest appraisal of inner city poverty and struggle.
8
I got through about 5 minutes of stupid rehashes of "raped harder than" jokes(?!) and lazy, incoherent sports references before I couldn't stand any more.
With the proliferation of the Internet, you can't say stupid shit like this anymore and expect it won't bite you in the ass. Even if this was some elaborate performance art/joke, it won't matter. In the future, any potential employer worth his salt will Google this kid's name and find a reference to this, proving the kid doesn't have the common sense and discretion to merit hiring him.
With the proliferation of the Internet, you can't say stupid shit like this anymore and expect it won't bite you in the ass. Even if this was some elaborate performance art/joke, it won't matter. In the future, any potential employer worth his salt will Google this kid's name and find a reference to this, proving the kid doesn't have the common sense and discretion to merit hiring him.
10
As horrible as it looks I always hesitate to jump on an internet vigilante justice bandwagon, no matter how tempting. There just isn't enough reliable information about what actually happened.
12
Arg. I feel sorry for boys like that, so far they have to go to comprehend even the slightest sense of what equality means.
But so much sorrier especially for the girl in question, but also the other girls in that H.S. that they have to deal with these privileged dips on a daily basis.
But so much sorrier especially for the girl in question, but also the other girls in that H.S. that they have to deal with these privileged dips on a daily basis.
13
@7 If you are right, then link that shit. Otherwise stop trying to imply there's any other issue besides these assholes are in the wrong and society should punish them.
I for one hope these fuckers never get a job offer, whether or not they are guilty of this particular rape. Their attitude is literally intolerable. It is about time that decent humans used the power of the internet as effectively as toxic pieces of shit like this.
I for one hope these fuckers never get a job offer, whether or not they are guilty of this particular rape. Their attitude is literally intolerable. It is about time that decent humans used the power of the internet as effectively as toxic pieces of shit like this.
15
Nobody has mentioned high school football. Specifically the culture of entitlement that surrounds small town high school football. These kids are not just random douches, but part of a football team that can do no wrong. It's not just them, but all the adults in their community that care FAR more about a fast 40 than they do anything else, up to and including violent felonies. And if you think this is just about small town mid-west football "circle the wagons" bullshit, look up Jerramy Stevens, University of Washington, and King County Prosecutors office and you'll see it can happen anywhere.
17
That stupid, stupid kid. Not only drunk, but high too, I'd bet. You know how funny everything is when you're high. What an idiot.
19
You people are missing the point, as always. Whatever these boys may or may not have done, which in a civilized society would play out in a court of law, the worse crime here is what the ADULTS have done. The special classes for athletes, the organized cheating resulting in a 100% pass rate, the protection from prosecution, the provision by adults of drugs and alcohol (including the roofie that allegedly knocked out this girl) as a reward for football performance, to say nothing of the illicit photos of naked underage students on the booster's cell phone: we've heard all of this before. Usually it's at the college level, but Steubenville is a pretty small town. This is where the real crime lies: it's a criminal conspiracy in which these boys, while undoubtedly sociopaths and criminals, are just pawns in the bigger game. It's the bigger game that needs to be taken down. If you just hit a couple of these boys, there will be new ones doing the same thing next year.
This is going to tear this high school and this town apart, and they richly deserve it for letting this poison into every corner of their institutions, not just the high school but the court house and the sheriff's office.
This is going to tear this high school and this town apart, and they richly deserve it for letting this poison into every corner of their institutions, not just the high school but the court house and the sheriff's office.
23
I remember all too well hearing stuff like this being said by high school football and hockey players decades ago. I keep hoping the world will get better and it seems to have gotten a tiny bit better, but we still have such a long way to go. Hopefully these boys will actually pay for their crime. In my youth, boys like them always got away with it as far as I could tell.
#16: You sound very much like a guy I was stupid enough to date, but smart enough to dump
#16: You sound very much like a guy I was stupid enough to date, but smart enough to dump
24
Just a footnote: though this kid doesn't appear to know it, the Duke lacrosse players were falsely accused. Last month their accuser was deemed mentally competent to stand trial for her boyfriend's murder.
25
Something tells me this kid is going to inherit his dad's lumber yard or whatever. He'll be clueless and sheltered his entire life, just the way his parents intended.
27
If we lived in a 'culture of rape', would this be causing outrage? It really takes a massive leap in logic to extrapolate shitty behavior and callous comments by a couple of highschoolers into an entire 'culture.'
We live in an anti-rape culture. Videos of people making jokes isn't going to change that fact.
We live in an anti-rape culture. Videos of people making jokes isn't going to change that fact.
28
@26 Maybe I'm wrong about Fnarf not being a sport fan, but I still think he's being a bit of a moralistic sour puss about the way high school and college athletes are treated. Schools shouldn't cover up rapes for the sake of a good football program, but if some rich alum wants to ply members of the team w/ hookers and blow why is that a big deal? If some stupid law prevented colleges from paying Dan a speaking fee, would anybody be surprised if people connected to the places where he answered students' sex questions hooked him up w/ free dinners at fancy restaurants or some kind bud or whatever?
29
@22, season ticket holder for the Sounders. I watched Tottenham Hotspur mangle Reading yesterday in a sports bar. I'm not normally much of a gridiron fan but I did watch the last two Seahawks games, or most of them, and I've seen them play live, as well as the Sonics (in the Coliseum and the Kingdome), Mariners (starting in 1977), Pilots (in Sicks Stadium), Thunderbirds, Totems, and Rainiers (Sicks again) play, as well as the Huskies once, long long ago -- including once in Stanford's stadium. I watched the Dallas Cowboys beat the Detroit Lions in a famous 5-0 playoff game at the Cotton Bowl, and saw both the first game and the first regular-season game at the old Texas Stadium. I've attended three different codes of football matches in stadiums on three continents, including Anfield in Liverpool and what was then called the Tesla Dome in Melbourne. I've seen the Harlem Globetrotters twice. I saw the longest nine-inning game in history (since surpassed) in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium, against the Red Sox, on the hottest day in the history of the universe, with the added bonus of having a dozen Yankees fans dump beer on me while trying to throw it on a drunken Red Sox fan who more than deserved it (I did not). I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours compiling baseball statistics, including a couple of my own invention. One of my earliest memories is seeing Mickey Mantle's grotesquely swollen knees as he prepared to bat in his final season. I (or my family) was a Sports Illustrated subscriber for more than thirty years. I have several thousand baseball cards and over one hundred enamel Spurs pins. I have a library of close to a hundred volumes of books on baseball and soccer. One of my proudest moments was when I got a letter to the editor printed in The Sporting News. It was about Babe Ruth's slugging percentage.
Oh, yeah, and I am the world's worst fly fisherman. Does that count?
What happened in Steubenville, like what happened at Penn State and what happened here at the UW under Rick Neuheisel, is not "sports". I am a sports fan. I am not a rape fan, or a criminal coverup fan, or a subversion of justice fan, or a perversion of educational institutions fan. To suggest that being a sports fan means turning a blind eye to the things that went on at this high school is an attitude I would very much like to stamp out forever. You?
More...
Oh, yeah, and I am the world's worst fly fisherman. Does that count?
What happened in Steubenville, like what happened at Penn State and what happened here at the UW under Rick Neuheisel, is not "sports". I am a sports fan. I am not a rape fan, or a criminal coverup fan, or a subversion of justice fan, or a perversion of educational institutions fan. To suggest that being a sports fan means turning a blind eye to the things that went on at this high school is an attitude I would very much like to stamp out forever. You?
31
@27 This is causing such a stir because A) Anonymous very publicly outed all those involved in the conspiracy, and B) There is no doubt that they are guilty of drugging and raping this girl. How many times do you hear people say a girl was "asking for it" because she drank too much, or was wearing slutty cloths?
32
@28, I'm going to start calling you "Osmium".
Why don't you ask the parents of girls at that high school if they think it's OK to provide the football team with "hookers and blow"? Especially if the "hookers" in question are their underage daughters, and they're not hookers at all, they're drugged-up rape victims? That's what we're talking about here.
Seriously, do you listen to yourself before you post?
They're covering up a disgusting group rape here, because they are protecting the football program. How is it possible for you to not see this? It's happened a thousand times before. Need I remind you that the purpose of a high school is not football at all, it's education. And a fine one these boys are getting, too. The football team at this high school employs NINETEEN COACHES. How many librarians do you think they have? Or Spanish teachers?
Hookers and blow? What the fuck? We're talking about the sheriff and a county prosecutor providing criminal cover here.
Why don't you ask the parents of girls at that high school if they think it's OK to provide the football team with "hookers and blow"? Especially if the "hookers" in question are their underage daughters, and they're not hookers at all, they're drugged-up rape victims? That's what we're talking about here.
Seriously, do you listen to yourself before you post?
They're covering up a disgusting group rape here, because they are protecting the football program. How is it possible for you to not see this? It's happened a thousand times before. Need I remind you that the purpose of a high school is not football at all, it's education. And a fine one these boys are getting, too. The football team at this high school employs NINETEEN COACHES. How many librarians do you think they have? Or Spanish teachers?
Hookers and blow? What the fuck? We're talking about the sheriff and a county prosecutor providing criminal cover here.
34
@Ken, what Fnarf describes in sports culture is pretty much true. I love sports, I grew up in a super sporty family, two of my uncles were drafted in MLB, one uncle was coaching in the NFL until 2011, shit, there's two Olympians in my family. So, I've been around sports a lot, the sense of entitlement is mind blowing. I'm glad my own family described me as a two tool catcher,so I could move on and pursue my own interests and get away from the douchiness. Sports are awesome, I watch entirely too much baseball but the culture is fucked up.
35
@32 I agree that what went on at Penn State, and apparently in Steubenville as well, was over the line and shouldn't be tolerated. I don't understand why anybody would get upset about football players being allowed to ditch class. Do you think education is the reason those guys are in school? Really?
36
@24, we live in a lying-about-rape culture. Things are never going to change until we start teaching girls it's not OK to lie about rape.
37
@34 I'm not taking issue with Fnarf's description of sports culture. What I'm saying is that, except in cases where the cover up of a serious crime is involved, I don't see a problem with it.
38
@35 for football players it's even more important they get an education. No guaranteed contracts and if you do play football on that level, you're body will be way too messed up to do manual labor.
But back to Fnarf's point about a culture of entitlement and generally douchiness. Being allowed to skip class completely feeds into that, it's a profound message you're sending to the kid.
But back to Fnarf's point about a culture of entitlement and generally douchiness. Being allowed to skip class completely feeds into that, it's a profound message you're sending to the kid.
39
@37 you think it's okay to believe you are above the social norms and laws due to a task you can perform?
40
There is no such thing as rape culture. It's a made up academic/feminist/far left term. Rape in the US is treated as a serious crime and is relatively rare. The concept is as unserious and absurd as the "legitimate rape" theories that exist on the radical right.
41
@37, you're incapable of making the most obvious of connections, though. It's not just a "culture of entitlement", it's a culture of covering up crimes if their exposure threatens the football program. It's not just one or two cases, it's in HUNDREDS of them -- and there is not a university in the country that wouldn't do exactly the same thing as Penn State did, or the UW did, or any of the other schools. It's rarer in high school, because there's not usually that much money on the line in high school -- but it's getting more common.
It is a straight line between the jock entitlement privileges and coverups of small offenses, like fake classes and fake grades, and the bigger deal of rapes, spousal abuses, and murders. It's rather disingenuous to deny that that's what's happening when this very item is about that happening.
Pro sports are different, because pro sports are a business -- and their business is the one it says on the tin: sports. And the athletes are paid a fair wage, not tricked into slavery. Schools are different, because the stated mission of any school is education, not sports. But we all know that's not true in practice. And every school, including this high school, has a deep well of resentment from people who DON'T get to cut those corners and are in fact endlessly screwed by their institution's misplaced priorities.
It is a straight line between the jock entitlement privileges and coverups of small offenses, like fake classes and fake grades, and the bigger deal of rapes, spousal abuses, and murders. It's rather disingenuous to deny that that's what's happening when this very item is about that happening.
Pro sports are different, because pro sports are a business -- and their business is the one it says on the tin: sports. And the athletes are paid a fair wage, not tricked into slavery. Schools are different, because the stated mission of any school is education, not sports. But we all know that's not true in practice. And every school, including this high school, has a deep well of resentment from people who DON'T get to cut those corners and are in fact endlessly screwed by their institution's misplaced priorities.
42
@39 I think people who work their asses off honing a skill that allows them to perform a difficult task that thousands of screaming fans love seeing them perform are entitled to some form of compensation. Players in highly competitive college football programs deserve to be paid, but we have a hypocritical system of rules that prevents that from happening. So colleges find other ways to keep their star athletes happy. Is that so wrong?
43
@41 "It is a straight line between the jock entitlement privileges and coverups of small offenses, like fake classes and fake grades, and the bigger deal of rapes, spousal abuses, and murders."
It's a straight line, but it's a long line. I don't think it's disingenuous to say that educational institutions should only be punished for covering up the misdeeds of their football players and coaches in extreme cases, like Penn State.
It's a straight line, but it's a long line. I don't think it's disingenuous to say that educational institutions should only be punished for covering up the misdeeds of their football players and coaches in extreme cases, like Penn State.
44
@42 it is dumb that colleges don't pay their players. Especially since so few will make in the NFL and the colleges make a lot of money off the players. We cant say there's a set of laws for people and then another set for people with fans, thats a gross misuse of the concept of justice.
45
@43, you are such a fucking idiot. Read a fucking book. Start with "The Cartel" by Taylor Branch. It's short, a hundred pages. Then move on to "Scoreboard, Baby". There is a voluminous literature on why big-time college sports, and increasingly high school sports as well, are completely corrupt top to bottom.
"Keep their star athletes happy" -- WHY? Tell me again why colleges should have football programs in the first place? And since when does "keep them happy" mean "protect them from the law when they rape unconscious underage girls they have drugged"?
"Keep their star athletes happy" -- WHY? Tell me again why colleges should have football programs in the first place? And since when does "keep them happy" mean "protect them from the law when they rape unconscious underage girls they have drugged"?
46
I wouldn't say we live in a culture of rape, but we clearly live in a culture where at least a few noteworthy individuals (and high school fucktards) are shockingly unconcerned and heartless about the reality of rape, and even lie about rape, for political gain (though it amounted to nothing but political loss, which was awesome). I think in this kid's case, it's Internet Culture that's a problem: uninformed, vomitous, inane drivel freely spewed to the entire computer-using world. I don't see where this is going somewhere *good*.
47
More bad news. Washington women files rape charge, but is not believed by cops and is charged with false reporting a rape. Three years later the rapist is caught after raping/kidnapping yet another woman and pictures of the Washington women were found. The cops are now expunging the Washington woman's record and have given her back her $500.
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/…
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/…
48
More bad news about a rape culture that doesn't exist yet keeps on raping.
Woman raped at gunpoint wins $1.5m payout from police
Police told Pittsburgh woman that she had fabricated her story
Nice to know she got some justice after being arrested and put in jail after she reported being raped at gun point, too bad it took 8 years. The rapist was later caught after raping another woman and confessed.
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/woman_ra…
Woman raped at gunpoint wins $1.5m payout from police
Police told Pittsburgh woman that she had fabricated her story
Nice to know she got some justice after being arrested and put in jail after she reported being raped at gun point, too bad it took 8 years. The rapist was later caught after raping another woman and confessed.
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/woman_ra…
49
Rape culture? What rape culture?
The website allows users to label any woman a "potential prostitute" by submitting her photo, phone number and location. This information is then posted on the site without the woman's consent. If someone wishes to be removed from the site, they are asked to pay a one-time fee of $99.95.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28…
The website allows users to label any woman a "potential prostitute" by submitting her photo, phone number and location. This information is then posted on the site without the woman's consent. If someone wishes to be removed from the site, they are asked to pay a one-time fee of $99.95.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28…
50
What a shithole Steubenville looks like. No wonder they throw their whole lives into their football team.
That said, Traci Lords is from there, so they have that.
@40 - Your trying to convince us that rape is "relatively rare" tells me that rape culture is alive and well. 16% of women in the US are victims of rape or attempted rapes in their lifetimes. 29% of women in the military are raped. Still sound rare to you? Or are these not legitimate rapes?
That said, Traci Lords is from there, so they have that.
@40 - Your trying to convince us that rape is "relatively rare" tells me that rape culture is alive and well. 16% of women in the US are victims of rape or attempted rapes in their lifetimes. 29% of women in the military are raped. Still sound rare to you? Or are these not legitimate rapes?
51
@45 Colleges should have football programs because people like football. People like football teams that are associated with educational institutions that they go to, graduated from, or live near. People like the romantic notion of student-athletes, but they also want their team to win. So, college football programs are saddled w/ an unrealistic set of rules about how they treat their players. A set of rules nobody really expects them to follow. Your as naive as the Tea Bagger who is against amnesty for illegal aliens, because all those people (gasp) broke the law when they came into our country illegally. In both cases, yes a rule was broken, but it was the kind of rule people are encouraged to break.
52
@38 I think we're sending young people the right message by letting jocks get away with shit. Click here and skip to the 00:50 mark, you'll see what I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b5g1avyC…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b5g1avyC…
53
@2 I volunteer to take a turn.
@7 Troll harder, n00b.
@11 If it's one of these shitstains, JOKE ON!
@51 The core problem is that the NFL and NBA are too fucking cheap to set up a decent farm system like MLB and the NHL have. The fact is that this sort of corrupt bullshit does not happen with college baseball and college hockey at anywhere near the level as it does with football and basketball. The reason is simple -- the people who want to play baseball or hockey professionally start doing so immediately out of high school. No passing go, no absurd scholarships or hypocrisy. They just go get an entry level job doing what they want to be doing.
With basketball and football, we've reached the absurd state where colleges and providing the farm system for professional sports. FUCK THAT SHIT.
@7 Troll harder, n00b.
@11 If it's one of these shitstains, JOKE ON!
@51 The core problem is that the NFL and NBA are too fucking cheap to set up a decent farm system like MLB and the NHL have. The fact is that this sort of corrupt bullshit does not happen with college baseball and college hockey at anywhere near the level as it does with football and basketball. The reason is simple -- the people who want to play baseball or hockey professionally start doing so immediately out of high school. No passing go, no absurd scholarships or hypocrisy. They just go get an entry level job doing what they want to be doing.
With basketball and football, we've reached the absurd state where colleges and providing the farm system for professional sports. FUCK THAT SHIT.
54
"This is going to tear this high school and this town apart"
I so doubt this. God I hope I'm wrong.
@28: "I still think he's being a bit of a moralistic sour puss about the way high school and college athletes are treated"
Oh go fuck yourself. Your morals are obviously lacking-to-nonexistent if you think this shit is tolerable.
I so doubt this. God I hope I'm wrong.
@28: "I still think he's being a bit of a moralistic sour puss about the way high school and college athletes are treated"
Oh go fuck yourself. Your morals are obviously lacking-to-nonexistent if you think this shit is tolerable.
55
@51: "Your as naive as the Tea Bagger who is against amnesty for illegal aliens, because all those people (gasp) broke the law when they came into our country illegally. In both cases, yes a rule was broken, but it was the kind of rule people are encouraged to break."
"Your" functionally retarded for believing that immigration is something to be compared to high school "boys will be boys" behavior.
"Your" functionally retarded for believing that immigration is something to be compared to high school "boys will be boys" behavior.
56
"I'm not going to apologize about the rapists, that was terrible."
*Proceed to apologize for the rapists*
See I can be one of the informative trolls too!
*Proceed to apologize for the rapists*
See I can be one of the informative trolls too!
57
"by the anonymous hacking collective known as Anonymous"
Laziest journalism in the world. What the fuck is this even? There's a group of anonymous people with some kind of council making decisions for justice or evil? Fucking no. There are people who exist on the internet who have enough balls to claim you'll never know who they are/were and they are doing things because they believe in them. THESE ARE INDIVIDUAL ANONYMOUS HACKERS MAKING INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS. Calling this a collective is wrong, lazy and counter productive to the movement. When you are hacked or exposed by anonymous what you are saying is that you have no idea who exposed you. Remember that scene from Odysseus? "Nobody is my name" Please use English better. >.
Laziest journalism in the world. What the fuck is this even? There's a group of anonymous people with some kind of council making decisions for justice or evil? Fucking no. There are people who exist on the internet who have enough balls to claim you'll never know who they are/were and they are doing things because they believe in them. THESE ARE INDIVIDUAL ANONYMOUS HACKERS MAKING INDIVIDUAL DECISIONS. Calling this a collective is wrong, lazy and counter productive to the movement. When you are hacked or exposed by anonymous what you are saying is that you have no idea who exposed you. Remember that scene from Odysseus? "Nobody is my name" Please use English better. >.
58
Ken is dead wrong on this. There's no separating the culture of exclusive entitlement and rape. This is is true in sports, fraternities, religion, and with business and political elites. Once they put themselves "above" those other worth less people the rape and abuse of their privilege is never far behind. Ken must have grown up in one of these bubbles for this not to be apparent.
59
For fuck's sake, the comments in this thread are a complete wankfest of male privilege. Sports! Me, I talk better about sports, wank wank! No, I talk better about sports, wank, spurt, gurgle.
@58 gets it.
@58 gets it.
61
She's dead-er than Caylee Anythony, she's deader than TrayVon Martin. We have a REAL intelligent group of individuals. The fact that they can ramble on incoherently for minutes on end reveling in a possible rape, murder, a murder of a three-year old. . . intoxication is no excuse for cruel, inflammatory comments. These sad excuses for human beings need to be helped-I'd put it on shout-out and make sure the parents of each individual shown are notified and they are required to get whatever help we could possibly give them. Apathy is rampant these days, disgustingly so.
63
@62 No, these particular males are exhibiting privilege by turning a discussion about rape culture into a discussion about them and sports.
Male privilege=making everything male-centric.
But wank on, by all means.
Male privilege=making everything male-centric.
But wank on, by all means.
64
I'd like to see a high school or college that had no sports programs, only education.
Surely there must be enough people in America who would want to go to something like that.
Surely there must be enough people in America who would want to go to something like that.
65
I sometimes literally laugh out loud when reading the 'net. Today I physically scratched my head while reading this thread.
"NEWS ITEM: Hai you guys, look at this horrible facet of/product of rape culture, brought to us by Anonymous. That poor girl, those asshole football player guys."
THREAD: "What rape culture? Let's talk about sports. If you wanna talk a culture, clearly this is a SPORTS culture, not a rape culture.
And if you disagree, you're a radical feminist."
What am I, on Rush Limbaugh's site by mistake or summat?
I had this discussion with my older brother, who is a smart, good-hearted sort of guy. He didn't understand the idea of rape culture or how rape permeates so much of a woman's life. I gave him the example of computers. They have main processes/programs & subroutines.
Scenario: you have left a club, late at night, in the city. You need to walk to the Metro/subway to get back home. As you walk onto a long block, someone turns the corner & is now on the same block, side of the street opposite you, but walking towards you.
A man in this situation: his main process is calculating the route & putting his body in motion. I can't presume to know what their subroutine is, but my brother would likely be analyzing the show, did he like the choice of songs by the band, did he find the trip/ticket price/show to his liking.
After a brief subconscious check of person across the street for potential threat or to see if they know them, the main train of thought takes back over if neither of those things happens.
A woman in the same position, once the person across the street has been spotted, is likely a whole host of alarm bells pop up as a complex set of subroutines. Immediately the calculations begin.."if person across the street begins to approach me, how close am I to the nearest storefront/taxi/other escape route? Are the shoes I'm wearing good to run in? Do I have my hand on my cel phone/keys/mace/etc?"..& it's not a conscious thing. Most women I've talked to about it acknowledge a certain degree of basic unsafe-feeling they have if they go out at night alone. Maybe not all neighborhoods & maybe not always, but frequently. That coworker that looks at you too long could be a rapist. So could the guy who took you out for drinks. The cashier at the grocery store. Anyone.
The entitlement that comes with sports culture is part of the problem. But rape culture is out there. I don't mean the kinky stuff people get up to in their consensual free time, either. It's not sex-negative to talk about this.
I have worked for many years in comic books & was told earnestly that there was no sexism in the comic book industry, by a male college somewhat younger than myself. He'd never seen it, he explained, so it couldn't be real. Good on him if ppl have magically somehow sorted all that out, but is statement is a typical male reaction to the idea of rape culture. It doesn't exist, because it doesn't happen to you.
I hope that poor girl is getting some serious psychological care. Imagine this being out there int he world, & it's about you. I don't like the "public square" aspect of what Anonymous has done but it's forcing actual examination/conversation. Maybe it will help a few other young people avoid this situation in either role.
If agreeing that rape culture exists makes one some angry radical crazy feminist, BTW, fine, that's who I am. And I forgot to shave my legs this week, so let me confirm that assumption also. ;)
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"NEWS ITEM: Hai you guys, look at this horrible facet of/product of rape culture, brought to us by Anonymous. That poor girl, those asshole football player guys."
THREAD: "What rape culture? Let's talk about sports. If you wanna talk a culture, clearly this is a SPORTS culture, not a rape culture.
And if you disagree, you're a radical feminist."
What am I, on Rush Limbaugh's site by mistake or summat?
I had this discussion with my older brother, who is a smart, good-hearted sort of guy. He didn't understand the idea of rape culture or how rape permeates so much of a woman's life. I gave him the example of computers. They have main processes/programs & subroutines.
Scenario: you have left a club, late at night, in the city. You need to walk to the Metro/subway to get back home. As you walk onto a long block, someone turns the corner & is now on the same block, side of the street opposite you, but walking towards you.
A man in this situation: his main process is calculating the route & putting his body in motion. I can't presume to know what their subroutine is, but my brother would likely be analyzing the show, did he like the choice of songs by the band, did he find the trip/ticket price/show to his liking.
After a brief subconscious check of person across the street for potential threat or to see if they know them, the main train of thought takes back over if neither of those things happens.
A woman in the same position, once the person across the street has been spotted, is likely a whole host of alarm bells pop up as a complex set of subroutines. Immediately the calculations begin.."if person across the street begins to approach me, how close am I to the nearest storefront/taxi/other escape route? Are the shoes I'm wearing good to run in? Do I have my hand on my cel phone/keys/mace/etc?"..& it's not a conscious thing. Most women I've talked to about it acknowledge a certain degree of basic unsafe-feeling they have if they go out at night alone. Maybe not all neighborhoods & maybe not always, but frequently. That coworker that looks at you too long could be a rapist. So could the guy who took you out for drinks. The cashier at the grocery store. Anyone.
The entitlement that comes with sports culture is part of the problem. But rape culture is out there. I don't mean the kinky stuff people get up to in their consensual free time, either. It's not sex-negative to talk about this.
I have worked for many years in comic books & was told earnestly that there was no sexism in the comic book industry, by a male college somewhat younger than myself. He'd never seen it, he explained, so it couldn't be real. Good on him if ppl have magically somehow sorted all that out, but is statement is a typical male reaction to the idea of rape culture. It doesn't exist, because it doesn't happen to you.
I hope that poor girl is getting some serious psychological care. Imagine this being out there int he world, & it's about you. I don't like the "public square" aspect of what Anonymous has done but it's forcing actual examination/conversation. Maybe it will help a few other young people avoid this situation in either role.
If agreeing that rape culture exists makes one some angry radical crazy feminist, BTW, fine, that's who I am. And I forgot to shave my legs this week, so let me confirm that assumption also. ;)
66
BTW: yes, I know men have been attacked & raped. It's horrible when anyone abuses anyone. The above rant is about your more typical configuration of sexual violence. Thx.
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@Eva Hopkins
Thank you so much for your rant.
Yes, being a female means knowing, from early childhood on, that one is at high risk of being snatched and never heard from again. Getting older, one is told about rape. As adults, rape is always a possibility for us, strongest when out with "bad persons". And if we do happen to meet those "bad persons" and become a victim of them, we're told we haven't been careful enough.
Removing the "bad persons" from society is never considered as valid an option as telling females to be extra cautious.
Besides, don't worry about shaving your legs. Real men and real women don't obsess over someone else's pilosity. Natural, hairy legs, as nature intended : gorgeous.
Thank you so much for your rant.
Yes, being a female means knowing, from early childhood on, that one is at high risk of being snatched and never heard from again. Getting older, one is told about rape. As adults, rape is always a possibility for us, strongest when out with "bad persons". And if we do happen to meet those "bad persons" and become a victim of them, we're told we haven't been careful enough.
Removing the "bad persons" from society is never considered as valid an option as telling females to be extra cautious.
Besides, don't worry about shaving your legs. Real men and real women don't obsess over someone else's pilosity. Natural, hairy legs, as nature intended : gorgeous.
68
Yes, thanks to @65 for getting back on topic.
@66 is unnecessary, but does point directly to a symptom of rape culture--men always have to be acknowledged in the discussion to soothe their sensitivity to being associated with the gender that perpetrates 99.99% of rape and sexual violence. Ugh, get over yourselves. Got a problem with other men making women fear men in general? Take it up with other men. Speak up when a douchedick spouts rape apologia. Hold yourself and your friends accountable for your words and attitudes. Rape culture devalues women's autonomy and voice--help your sisters out. The kinds of guys who don't respect women do respect other guys; that's how the culture will change.
@66 is unnecessary, but does point directly to a symptom of rape culture--men always have to be acknowledged in the discussion to soothe their sensitivity to being associated with the gender that perpetrates 99.99% of rape and sexual violence. Ugh, get over yourselves. Got a problem with other men making women fear men in general? Take it up with other men. Speak up when a douchedick spouts rape apologia. Hold yourself and your friends accountable for your words and attitudes. Rape culture devalues women's autonomy and voice--help your sisters out. The kinds of guys who don't respect women do respect other guys; that's how the culture will change.
70
@68: Painting with so broad a brush risks alienating potential allies. Yeah, you have to acknowledge where your allies are at in the discussion if you want them to get on board with what you're saying. Sorry. That's just the way it works. You don't get to just demand things of innocent, uninvolved people... and you certainly aren't going to be very compelling if you're dragging people into being blamed for the crimes of other people by making them party to some imagined "rape culture". You can be pissed, or you can be effective. Up to you, and no sweat off my ass, either way.
71
@70--think of it this way: If women are scared of men they don't know well, they're less likely to chat with men on the subway, smile at men on the street, or accept a walk/ride home after a party. Is that a world you want? It's not the world I want.
So, it's in men's best interest to tell the jerks and rapists who make women feel unsafe to knock that shit off.
So, it's in men's best interest to tell the jerks and rapists who make women feel unsafe to knock that shit off.
72
@70, 71: Additionally, those men who say that rape culture is "imagined" also contribute to the problem. When a person tells me that, what he is saying is that women are exaggerating, overestimating risk, and making shit up. That regardless of what my experience has been, there is nothing wrong on a cultural level. If someone denies the existence of rape culture, and minimizes the difficult (sometimes traumatic) experiences of women in the process, they are part of the problem of silence surrounding sexual assault.
Maybe the phrase "rape culture" just offends people. The more accurate phrase would be something like, "the choices/feelings/perceptions of half our population as a result of the likelihood of sexual assault, the experiences of our friends and ourselves with sexual assault, the way assault victims are treated by the media/justice system, and the constant exposure to various elements of culture that reinforce the idea that women lack autonomy and/or exist primarily for the sexual gratification of men". Or something like that.
Maybe the phrase "rape culture" just offends people. The more accurate phrase would be something like, "the choices/feelings/perceptions of half our population as a result of the likelihood of sexual assault, the experiences of our friends and ourselves with sexual assault, the way assault victims are treated by the media/justice system, and the constant exposure to various elements of culture that reinforce the idea that women lack autonomy and/or exist primarily for the sexual gratification of men". Or something like that.
73
@59, @65, It's bizarre to me (woman, feminist) that the discussion here is being dismissed because it's not about the moment of rape in every post. Talking about sports culture IS talking about rape culture, because one is being used to house the other. I take this to be Ffnarf's point, and a few others', too. Surely if one wants people, including men, to actively engage in the business of figuring out how and where masculinity supports rape (i.e. to examine rape culture, instead of making it women's problem) this is exactly the discussion that needs to happen. How are the institutions setting up a sneaky privilege and cover-up system? How can that be dismantled? These ARE the important questions!
74
About Victims
44% of victims are under age 18
80% are under age 30
Sexual Assault Numbers
Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted
There is an average of 207,754 victims (age 12 or older) of sexual assault each year
Reporting to Police
54% of sexual assaults are not reported to the police
97% of rapists will never spend a day in jail
About Rapists
Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance
About Victims
44% of victims are under age 18
80% are under age 30
Sexual Assault Numbers
Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted
There is an average of 207,754 victims (age 12 or older) of sexual assault each year
Reporting to Police
54% of sexual assaults are not reported to the police
97% of rapists will never spend a day in jail
About Rapists
Approximately 2/3 of assaults are committed by someone known to the victim
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance
76
@70 You're not a potential ally.
Patronizing, minimizing, and trying to stop the debate - you call that being an ally ?
I'm not saying you're a rapist, though. But you say you do feel uninvolved in what happens to 51% of human beings. You were born out of a woman, may I remind you. No female can turn her back on every male's issue. And no male can turn his back on every female's issue.
If you don't feel solidarity nor compassion for an abused majority - then you're a definite enemy.
Patronizing, minimizing, and trying to stop the debate - you call that being an ally ?
I'm not saying you're a rapist, though. But you say you do feel uninvolved in what happens to 51% of human beings. You were born out of a woman, may I remind you. No female can turn her back on every male's issue. And no male can turn his back on every female's issue.
If you don't feel solidarity nor compassion for an abused majority - then you're a definite enemy.
77
You know, Fnarf was not just bringing up sports because he wanted to talk about sports due to his ownership of testicles. They were not arguing box scores, for heaven's sake.
He was bringing up how sports culture (which many men belong to) contributes to the culture of entitlement everyone is blaming for events such as these. If you indeed believe that male entitlement leads to rape, the sports culture is the incubator of many males and often where they get a large portion of their male role models, for better or for worse. It should be examined.
If you want to change the culture you can not just ignore a large segment of the culture, just because you do not like sports, and you should not simply ignore someone trying to expand an understanding of the topic just because of their gender.
He was bringing up how sports culture (which many men belong to) contributes to the culture of entitlement everyone is blaming for events such as these. If you indeed believe that male entitlement leads to rape, the sports culture is the incubator of many males and often where they get a large portion of their male role models, for better or for worse. It should be examined.
If you want to change the culture you can not just ignore a large segment of the culture, just because you do not like sports, and you should not simply ignore someone trying to expand an understanding of the topic just because of their gender.
78
Unfortunately this shit society of ours still rewards jock-bro fuckers like this, for being jock-bro fuckers. To most people they probably seem like the charismatic, confident, standard American boys we've all been expected to grow up as. And they hide their dark side from them. When they unwind with their buddies they're their true selves, selfish careless little monsters. Actually not so 'little' when they end up raping girls, bullying other people, teaching younger kids that it's respectable to be an asshole, etc. You know, 'boys will be boys'. This is going to keep happening because this is our culture. We just aren't civilized enough to love and respect one another, and loving and respecting one another in this culture, for the most part, is considered being a pussy. A lot of young men in this country strive to be as opposite as they possibly can be from being a 'pussy'. So this is what we get
This happens more often than some may think, just doesn't always get a) recorded and b) published online. The guys in this video, hell millions of guys like the ones in this video, are going to land good careers, get laid often, marry beautiful people etc. Figure that one out
I sure hope everyone seen and heard in this video will be forced to stand trial. An earlier commenter said something about how, at least someone in the video spoke out about how raping this girl wasn't cool. Fuck that, if your buddy just raped someone you call the cops and do everything you can to help the victim and get her the hell out of there
This happens more often than some may think, just doesn't always get a) recorded and b) published online. The guys in this video, hell millions of guys like the ones in this video, are going to land good careers, get laid often, marry beautiful people etc. Figure that one out
I sure hope everyone seen and heard in this video will be forced to stand trial. An earlier commenter said something about how, at least someone in the video spoke out about how raping this girl wasn't cool. Fuck that, if your buddy just raped someone you call the cops and do everything you can to help the victim and get her the hell out of there
79
"In spite of the abduction and attack’s high profile in social media, townspeople have been reluctant to aid the prosecution of the crime in any way, lest it jeopardize The Big Red’s chances at another state championship."
The Big Red is the football team these high schoolers are in.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/03/ha…
The Big Red is the football team these high schoolers are in.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/03/ha…
80
42: When that "compensation" takes the form of officials turning a blind eye when they violate other people, then yes. Yes it is wrong.
81
I had to have "that conversation" with my daughter just today about what attempting to safeguard her personal safety on at college would be like for her next year. Damn. I sure wish my own mom had had that conversation with me when I was 18. Four rape attempts in my first month at college taught me a lot.
82
Justice will be served cold buffet style: I'm sure these dudes will get raped when they're in jail.
83
Cienna, part of the rape culture is passive aggressively condemning an entire gender because of the actions of some members of that gender.
For example, you did this by stating that these fools would only be "hated by at least half the world." Others in the comments did this by stating that the fact that some girls lie about being raped means that we cannot know for certain when any girl tells the truth about being raped.
Both are lies - damned lies.
Broad generalities tend to weaken the argument to the point of undoing it. If you're angry say you're angry, don't exaggerate the guilt of an entire gender to express your anger.
Violence in response to violence only makes you part of the cycle. If you want to be part of the solution, you cannot be part of the problem.
By making this situation a "we versus them" situation defined by nothing more than gender, you have completed the cycle of violence by putting ALL men in the category of being equal to rapists and ALL women in the category of being rape victims...who apparently must rely on the big, bad world of men to change because women are just too weak and helpless to expect it and demand it.
In regards to rape culture...
Rape culture is NOT the result of ONE gender. Rape culture is a byproduct of a fucked up society that raises its children, specifically its heterosexual children, to compete for status and rank by virtue of "winning" the mate that everyone else wants.
Americans are obsessed with winning - at any cost - no matter the game.
In this fucked up culture, women and men from the "right" families with the "right" looks and the "right" social affiliations and the "right" financial achievements are told that they are "better than" other women and men.
Women and men who rank as "less than" these trophies of humanity are valued as less than in every way.
Thus, when you set women and men in a competition for social rank and status based on winning the trophy mate, anyone ranked less than the trophy may be used and discarded by anyone ranked better. Trophy men become "entitled" to use, abuse and discard lesser ranking women sexually and lesser ranking men socially. Trophy women do much the same.
In this game anyone can move up or down in rank by their perceived association with or representation of prevailing value factors, which in America include among other things wealth, social status, religious affiliation, education, career, age, sexual desirability, military service and physical ability or disability. The higher you rank the more entitled you become and the more your behavior mirrors this sense of entitlement.
Rape culture is just one part of the greater failure of our nation's culture. If you want to heal the nation, you have to treat the whole society and its failed culture of entitlement and exploitation from yesterday's plantation lords to today's media superstars. Treating one part or one symptom won't cure the patient of this systemic disease.
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For example, you did this by stating that these fools would only be "hated by at least half the world." Others in the comments did this by stating that the fact that some girls lie about being raped means that we cannot know for certain when any girl tells the truth about being raped.
Both are lies - damned lies.
Broad generalities tend to weaken the argument to the point of undoing it. If you're angry say you're angry, don't exaggerate the guilt of an entire gender to express your anger.
Violence in response to violence only makes you part of the cycle. If you want to be part of the solution, you cannot be part of the problem.
By making this situation a "we versus them" situation defined by nothing more than gender, you have completed the cycle of violence by putting ALL men in the category of being equal to rapists and ALL women in the category of being rape victims...who apparently must rely on the big, bad world of men to change because women are just too weak and helpless to expect it and demand it.
In regards to rape culture...
Rape culture is NOT the result of ONE gender. Rape culture is a byproduct of a fucked up society that raises its children, specifically its heterosexual children, to compete for status and rank by virtue of "winning" the mate that everyone else wants.
Americans are obsessed with winning - at any cost - no matter the game.
In this fucked up culture, women and men from the "right" families with the "right" looks and the "right" social affiliations and the "right" financial achievements are told that they are "better than" other women and men.
Women and men who rank as "less than" these trophies of humanity are valued as less than in every way.
Thus, when you set women and men in a competition for social rank and status based on winning the trophy mate, anyone ranked less than the trophy may be used and discarded by anyone ranked better. Trophy men become "entitled" to use, abuse and discard lesser ranking women sexually and lesser ranking men socially. Trophy women do much the same.
In this game anyone can move up or down in rank by their perceived association with or representation of prevailing value factors, which in America include among other things wealth, social status, religious affiliation, education, career, age, sexual desirability, military service and physical ability or disability. The higher you rank the more entitled you become and the more your behavior mirrors this sense of entitlement.
Rape culture is just one part of the greater failure of our nation's culture. If you want to heal the nation, you have to treat the whole society and its failed culture of entitlement and exploitation from yesterday's plantation lords to today's media superstars. Treating one part or one symptom won't cure the patient of this systemic disease.
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