Slog Comments
Obamacare's Breast Pump Boom
2
@1 - in the old days, women would seetheir own mothers/sisters/aunts/etc. doing it and other lactating women may be around if she's unable. Since we live in a time not too long after formula was thought best and breastfeeding was considered "low class" or "impolite anywhere other than behind your own locked doors", it's necessary.
Most women don't get any kind of exposure to breastfeeding until they have to do it themselves. Parenting knowledge isn't passed on by genetic memory and it isn't instinctual!
Most women don't get any kind of exposure to breastfeeding until they have to do it themselves. Parenting knowledge isn't passed on by genetic memory and it isn't instinctual!
3
@2, I agree. When I became a father, I learned, the hard way, how little my daughter's mother knew about breast feeding. Her mom didn't know either, since formula was promoted as a better option. Thanks to a consultant of The Leche League my daughter received the best food during many months.
4
So many of my friends didn't know that pumps could be covered by insurance in the past few years and ended up paying $400+ out of pocket for theirs-- sure, you could not pump and stay home, but when it's necessary for both parents to work, pumps are essential to being able to continue to breastfeed. I was able to get mine covered by insurance, but still paid $70 OOP.
@1: I saw lactation consultants repeatedly in an attempt to get my kid's latch straightened out. You've obviously never had the special pleasure of a screaming, despereately hungry newborn biting your nipples at 3am in a desperate attempt to eat. They weren't covered, so there was at least $500 OOP. While I was lucky enough to have a mother and MIL who had both breastfed, they both were about 30 years out of practice. A LC sees babies and mothers all day every day and are not only lactation consultants, but baby whisperers and sounding boards for panicky, depressed, and guilty mothers. They're fucking angels and anyone who wants to talk shit about them can come through me first.
@1: I saw lactation consultants repeatedly in an attempt to get my kid's latch straightened out. You've obviously never had the special pleasure of a screaming, despereately hungry newborn biting your nipples at 3am in a desperate attempt to eat. They weren't covered, so there was at least $500 OOP. While I was lucky enough to have a mother and MIL who had both breastfed, they both were about 30 years out of practice. A LC sees babies and mothers all day every day and are not only lactation consultants, but baby whisperers and sounding boards for panicky, depressed, and guilty mothers. They're fucking angels and anyone who wants to talk shit about them can come through me first.
5
My best friend, a highly-educated individual and off-the-chart smart, was surprised at how much trouble she had breastfeeding. "There is nothing natural about breastfeeding" she would declare, especially after she got a nasty infection in one of her nipples ("pain worse than a bad tooth"). She was able to get advice from her in-laws (medical professionals), but she still had to work at it til she got the hang of breastfeeding. So, thank you to the Affordable Care Act for addressing the realities of life.
6
@1: how did babies ever survive before immunization and antibiotics? A: many of them didn't. Christ, what a nonsensical comment.
8
@6
It really is one of the stupider Slog comments I've seen in a few years.
how did babies ever survive before immunization and antibiotics? A: many of them didn't. Christ, what a nonsensical comment.
It really is one of the stupider Slog comments I've seen in a few years.
9
@6 it's not nonsensical. Eating is a natural biological function. Obviously many babies and mothers figured out how to breast feed before the days of highly paid ($200/hr!) lactation consultants, or else our ancestors wouldn't have made it.
Of course I realize that some infants wouldn't have made it if they or their mothers couldn't get it to work but its not a life or death situation these days, since formula is available, even if not condidered optimal.
Of course I realize that some infants wouldn't have made it if they or their mothers couldn't get it to work but its not a life or death situation these days, since formula is available, even if not condidered optimal.
10
I grew up semi-country, and come from a huge extended family. There was always somebody walking around with a baby clamped to their bosom, including Mother Vel-DuRay. I had no idea breast feeding was considered tacky until I moved out here. When my sister-in-law (who is the epitome of a redneck woman, living in Suburban Puyallup) got preggers and declared she would NEVER breast feed, I was thunderstruck. Thunderstruck, I tell you!
(By the way, when Mother Vel-DuRay had her first child in 1959, the nun at the hospital told her to drink a little beer when nursing. Now she tells everyone that. I have no idea if that is good advice, but the family endures, and reproduces at an alarming rate, so it must not be that bad)
(By the way, when Mother Vel-DuRay had her first child in 1959, the nun at the hospital told her to drink a little beer when nursing. Now she tells everyone that. I have no idea if that is good advice, but the family endures, and reproduces at an alarming rate, so it must not be that bad)
11
Here. The Role of Cultural Factors in Human Breastfeeding: Adaptive Behaviour or Biopower. Reviews how breastfeeding is learned behavior for humans and other primates. Chimp colonies have different breastfeeding cultural norms that they've learned from older generations. Or just Google "primates breastfeeding captivity". Gorilla babies starve if their mothers don't have someone to teach them how to breastfeed. Research goes back forty years and more. It's not breaking news.
It's weird on this topic, there's so much (male) prejudice that is simultaneously anti-science and anti-family. How often do you see two biases together?
It's weird on this topic, there's so much (male) prejudice that is simultaneously anti-science and anti-family. How often do you see two biases together?
12
@9, and if a newborn can't latch onto a nipple, it'll bottle feed just fine?
Getting that food into a newborn isn't the easiest thing. As I said, earlier, there were many women around to learn from or watch. Now, not so much. WHich is why we need consultants. It's really not an easy thing to learn.
This is a bit of a point with me - everyone seems to assume that women have some inborn knowledge of how to care for babies. Ummm, no, it's a skill to learn like everything else in life. It leads to a lot of depression and feelings in inferiority of women who just can't get it right away.
Let me tell you from experience, a newborn latching incorrectly can cause tremendous amounts of pain and be frustrating for the baby. Plus, the little buggers can hold on like anything if you need to reposition and are dying from pain! Lactation consultants were a godsend to help get things sorted out properly and make it a good experience for me and my baby.
Getting that food into a newborn isn't the easiest thing. As I said, earlier, there were many women around to learn from or watch. Now, not so much. WHich is why we need consultants. It's really not an easy thing to learn.
This is a bit of a point with me - everyone seems to assume that women have some inborn knowledge of how to care for babies. Ummm, no, it's a skill to learn like everything else in life. It leads to a lot of depression and feelings in inferiority of women who just can't get it right away.
Let me tell you from experience, a newborn latching incorrectly can cause tremendous amounts of pain and be frustrating for the baby. Plus, the little buggers can hold on like anything if you need to reposition and are dying from pain! Lactation consultants were a godsend to help get things sorted out properly and make it a good experience for me and my baby.
13
@9
Breast milk is wildly more healthy than formula and all the nutrition any infant needs for the first year at least of life. Additionally, it transfers a strong antibody system and immunities to the child as well as populating their gut with very healthy flora, neither of which they get from formula. Formula also been linked to later obesity.
Last, formula is expensive. Breast milk is free. We had trouble with our child--he needed his frenulum snipped (tongue tied, couldn't extend his tongue beyond his lower lip) for $200, and had an absolutely amazing local Seattle lactation consultant and registered nurse named Sarah Tyack that we paid out of pocket for a couple sessions. I think $300~. So for around $500~ dollars we got our kid completely sorted out on the breast, and haven't had to touch formula but for two weeks early on.
Formula, for the past year, may have cost us upward of $800-$1000. Add in next year as we transition to solids, at least a total of $1500+ versus $500. On top of all the health benefits it's more cost effective to nurse than use formula.
The only people that lose out here are the stock holders at the companies that make formula, which I could care less about.
Of course I realize that some infants wouldn't have made it if they or their mothers couldn't get it to work but its not a life or death situation these days, since formula is available, even if not condidered optimal.
Breast milk is wildly more healthy than formula and all the nutrition any infant needs for the first year at least of life. Additionally, it transfers a strong antibody system and immunities to the child as well as populating their gut with very healthy flora, neither of which they get from formula. Formula also been linked to later obesity.
Last, formula is expensive. Breast milk is free. We had trouble with our child--he needed his frenulum snipped (tongue tied, couldn't extend his tongue beyond his lower lip) for $200, and had an absolutely amazing local Seattle lactation consultant and registered nurse named Sarah Tyack that we paid out of pocket for a couple sessions. I think $300~. So for around $500~ dollars we got our kid completely sorted out on the breast, and haven't had to touch formula but for two weeks early on.
Formula, for the past year, may have cost us upward of $800-$1000. Add in next year as we transition to solids, at least a total of $1500+ versus $500. On top of all the health benefits it's more cost effective to nurse than use formula.
The only people that lose out here are the stock holders at the companies that make formula, which I could care less about.
14
@1,9
Women and babies also managed to survive before obstetricians and gynecologists (at least some women and babies did) but I don't notice you implying that those highly-paid professionals are somehow superfluous, too.
Women and babies also managed to survive before obstetricians and gynecologists (at least some women and babies did) but I don't notice you implying that those highly-paid professionals are somehow superfluous, too.
15
@12 so if newborn can't latch either onto a bottle or breast, and gets no nourishment, one waits for an appointment with a consultant? I have no doubt that new mothers need lots of help with new motherhood, I'm just not sure that $200/hr consultants, "baby whisperers", etc., while probably valuable for some mothers, are the best use of limited healthcare dollars. After all, the money the insurance company is spending on these consultants comes out of the pockets of all who pay premiums.
16
@ everyone. I don't have children. Had no idea it is such an issue getting infants to nurse. Shocked the species has lasted this long. Enjoy your lactation consultations.
17
@15 you obviously know nothing about natal medicine and nutrition, and are a dickhead, if you're lumping in "baby whisperers" with lactation consultants, who are medical professionals. Go back to the 1950s where you belong.
18
@9 "Of course babies survived before vaccines. Living is a natural biological function. Who needs all these vaccinations by $200/hr immunologists?"
I was almost going to ask you if you were a familiar with a condition known as "failure to thrive," but then I came to the conclusion that you're pretty much retarded, and it doesn't really matter.
I was almost going to ask you if you were a familiar with a condition known as "failure to thrive," but then I came to the conclusion that you're pretty much retarded, and it doesn't really matter.
19
@15
One of the points of paraprofessionals is that they are much cheaper, and much more available, than MDs. So instead of waiting around for your expensive pediatrician to squeeze you in, you go straight to an LPN who will see you right away and spend all the time with you that you need. Who can even drive out to your house. It's cost efficient and -- if you've ever studied a thing we call capitalism -- an example of increased productivity through specialization. It's freaky to be anti-science AND anti-family AND anti-capitalist. Is there even a name for that?
It's excusable that you're ignorant of that shit, but to be completely lost about the concept of lactation itself? And you call yourself a mammal.
One of the points of paraprofessionals is that they are much cheaper, and much more available, than MDs. So instead of waiting around for your expensive pediatrician to squeeze you in, you go straight to an LPN who will see you right away and spend all the time with you that you need. Who can even drive out to your house. It's cost efficient and -- if you've ever studied a thing we call capitalism -- an example of increased productivity through specialization. It's freaky to be anti-science AND anti-family AND anti-capitalist. Is there even a name for that?
It's excusable that you're ignorant of that shit, but to be completely lost about the concept of lactation itself? And you call yourself a mammal.
20
I bet @1,@16 knows how to grow crops and butcher an animal, because, you know, if we needed experts to train people how to do that stuff, it'd be amazing that our species had survived.
21
"...with consumers."
Not citizens, mind you, consumers. Because, we're just a bunch of parasitic grubs. Fuck you "Wonkblog" and all news outlets that continue to refer to the citizenry as simplistic, apolitical, ravenous, flapping pie-holes.
Not citizens, mind you, consumers. Because, we're just a bunch of parasitic grubs. Fuck you "Wonkblog" and all news outlets that continue to refer to the citizenry as simplistic, apolitical, ravenous, flapping pie-holes.
22
@16, yes, that's obvious.
Just a reminder, that "natural" doesn't mean "everyone knows how and can do it easily". I constantly amazes that people assume that women have some mommy knowledge gene that suddenly activates! BAM! You have all the knowledge necessary to do everything for your baby the instant he/she is born.
Nope!
Just a reminder, that "natural" doesn't mean "everyone knows how and can do it easily". I constantly amazes that people assume that women have some mommy knowledge gene that suddenly activates! BAM! You have all the knowledge necessary to do everything for your baby the instant he/she is born.
Nope!
23
This thread is beautiful because it demonstrates the archetypal male reaction to being caught talking shit about something they don't understand, and also explains how congress handles reproductive health legislation
24
I can only assume that WestSeven came out of the womb fully self-sufficient and has never needed anyone to teach them anything, ever. How else would they have survived? Jesus H Christ, I don't go around scoffing at male-specific medical issues that I have no personal experience with and know nothing about, how about you shut up about lactation consultants.
Comments (24) RSS