Slog Comments
DC Mayor Wants to Rethink the Name "Redskins"
1
yes, change it to something less offensive. Like the Washington Lobbyists. Or the Washington Plutocracy. Or the Washington Bought Off Legislators. Go BOLs!! Go BOLs!!
Then get rid of Dan Snyder as the owner. No bigger douchebag in the NFL. Seriously.
Then get rid of Dan Snyder as the owner. No bigger douchebag in the NFL. Seriously.
3
Cleveland Browns are named after Paul Brown, their first coach.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_…
And Curly Lambeau didn't own that company, he was just a clerk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_…
And Curly Lambeau didn't own that company, he was just a clerk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_…
4
Can I vote for Obama making a presidential decree against white girls wearing bindis? Because that shit needs to stop.
5
I'm fine with white girls wearing bindis.
Hindi is a language. Hindu is a religion.
That said, why not rename them High Fiving White Guys?
Cause their seats are filled with those, even if the playing field isn't.
Hindi is a language. Hindu is a religion.
That said, why not rename them High Fiving White Guys?
Cause their seats are filled with those, even if the playing field isn't.
6
As Giffy said, you're skirting some context on your way to your larger point, Chelsea, and it does you a bit of a disservice.
The Browns were initially to be named after coach Paul Brown, who was embarrassed about having a team named after him and rejected the idea. The team's fans then voted to keep the name, claiming it was a reference to the aforementioned Brown Bomber, but it seems a bit nudge-and-wink, no?
The Raiders, again, by popular vote, were named the Senors by fans. That lasted all of a week before the team changed its name to the Raiders, and it appears the name Senors actually was a reference to the team's non-hispanic owner. (It's complicated. Google it)
Now, that said, it's absolutely abhorrent that anyone is OK with a professional sports team being named "the Redskins," so you're right on that. But there's a bit of a hint of 'OHMYGODFOOTBALLIZRACIST!' in your post.
Professional sports—and specifically football—get a bit of a bad rap here on Slog, so let's please be clear that not every NFL team or fan is a fan of the kind of racism and xenophobia that was unfortunatly all too common EVERYWHERE during the era that birthed modern football. —See, for example, "Chink Hill," right here in South Seattle:http://www.rainiervalleyhistory.org/stories/articles/bombers-over-the-rainier-valley-world-war-two-defenses
Anyways, there are plenty of football fans that think it's disgusting the Redskins are allowed to exist. The end.
The Browns were initially to be named after coach Paul Brown, who was embarrassed about having a team named after him and rejected the idea. The team's fans then voted to keep the name, claiming it was a reference to the aforementioned Brown Bomber, but it seems a bit nudge-and-wink, no?
The Raiders, again, by popular vote, were named the Senors by fans. That lasted all of a week before the team changed its name to the Raiders, and it appears the name Senors actually was a reference to the team's non-hispanic owner. (It's complicated. Google it)
Now, that said, it's absolutely abhorrent that anyone is OK with a professional sports team being named "the Redskins," so you're right on that. But there's a bit of a hint of 'OHMYGODFOOTBALLIZRACIST!' in your post.
Professional sports—and specifically football—get a bit of a bad rap here on Slog, so let's please be clear that not every NFL team or fan is a fan of the kind of racism and xenophobia that was unfortunatly all too common EVERYWHERE during the era that birthed modern football. —See, for example, "Chink Hill," right here in South Seattle:http://www.rainiervalleyhistory.org/stories/articles/bombers-over-the-rainier-valley-world-war-two-defenses
Anyways, there are plenty of football fans that think it's disgusting the Redskins are allowed to exist. The end.
7
@4 can we just compromise and have him decree no white girls wearing bindis on the Platinum Trillion Dollar Coin?
8
They should definitely change their name to the Washington G-Strings. OK, not a great name for a team, but watching the cheerleaders would make up for it.
9
There's a big difference between 'Redskins' and 'Chiefs.'
That being said, there's a group of very dedicated Washington football fans called 'the Hogs.' They dress is this weird pig-faced drag like some post-apocalyptic mardi gras mutant-girls.
The Washington Hogs.
Let's hear it!
That being said, there's a group of very dedicated Washington football fans called 'the Hogs.' They dress is this weird pig-faced drag like some post-apocalyptic mardi gras mutant-girls.
The Washington Hogs.
Let's hear it!
12
Hold on, the Redskins want to move out of that stadium? It's only 15 years old, and aside from the turf, is pretty much state of the art. I would be shocked if that was true. Do you have a cite for that assertion?
14
The history of the Cleveland Browns' name is a little muddled, but most accounts point towards them being named after Paul Brown. When Cleveland got the team, the Plain-Dealer held a contest to name them. Paul Brown, who coached Ohio State, was exceptionally popular in the region, so most votes went to "The Browns." Brown himself didn't care for the name, but bowed to public sentiment. Still, he offered the Joe Louis explanation to throw people off, but finally admitted before he died that the team was named after him.
16
Miami University of Ohio changed their name from Redskins to Redhawks 10+ years ago. Its past time to change it.
How about the Washington Bullets? It has a nostalgic ring, and is still ironically appropos.
How about the Washington Bullets? It has a nostalgic ring, and is still ironically appropos.
17
The media relations office of the Browns disagrees: "The Official NFL Encyclopedia of Pro Football also credits the legendary first coach and general manager of the team. But according to the media relations office of the Browns, the team is named after the "Brown Bomber," boxer Joe Louis."
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-11…
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-11…
18
@12 I'm in the same boat of disbelief as you. Jack Kent Cooke spent a pretty penny putting that place together, and it's owned by the team. They may be trying to move some offices to DC, but after the Nat's stadium deal, I can't see anything big getting built for a while.
19
The Cleveland Browns' official website currently promotes the Paul Brown theory - "Brown, the founding coach of the Cleveland Browns and the man for whom the team is named..."
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/hist…
Click on the "Head Coaches" link.
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/hist…
Click on the "Head Coaches" link.
20
Dear Unpaid Intern: They're not flouting anything but (perhaps) public opinion. They're flaunting an inappropriate and possibly racist moniker. The dictionary is your friend.
22
How about the White Sox?
Everyone knows socks are smelly and go on feet. Why do we associate this undergarment with whites?
24
@23: And the Atlanta Braves. They all need to go.
But, are specific tribal names OK? Florida Seminoles, Utah Utes, Illinois Illini?
What about the Fighting Irish?
But, are specific tribal names OK? Florida Seminoles, Utah Utes, Illinois Illini?
What about the Fighting Irish?
25
I'd like to see all the racial and tribal names go (yeah, sure, even the Fighting Irish.) But let's start by just getting rid of the blatant ethnic slurs. "Redskins" is the worst (and their logo is pretty bad too), but the Cleveland Indians logo is as bad as the word "Redskins," and the whole tomahawk thing for the Atlanta Braves is appalling.
29
The Washington City Paper wants to change the name to the Pigskins, which just sounds super weird to me.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs…
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs…
31
@25: low-hanging fruit 1st, yes.
but I wonder: if the Seminole tribe is OK with the FL State Seminoles, or the Utes/Paiutes are OK with the Utah Utes, what then?
but I wonder: if the Seminole tribe is OK with the FL State Seminoles, or the Utes/Paiutes are OK with the Utah Utes, what then?
33
I think when we're talking about specific tribes, it depends on the tribe. From what I've heard, the Seminole tribe is OK with the Florida State Seminoles, but the Sioux were not OK with the North Dakota Fighting Sioux.
There's absolutely no excuse for the Braves, Indians, or Redskins, though. Executive Order it.
There's absolutely no excuse for the Braves, Indians, or Redskins, though. Executive Order it.
34
@29 Pigskins makes sense. But I fear it would rapidly devolve into the "Pigs" which I don't think will help win over the female fans. Cowboys vs. Pigskins? Sigh.
36
My understanding: The Seminoles in Flroida work with the university to keep things acceptable but the name is more controversial with the Seminoles who live in Oklahoma.
37
sure "redskins" should be changed. but then:
1. are you going to work for voting rights for DC residents, or is their lack of voting rights okey dokey?
2. are you going to change teh symbol of Seattle, why isn't that misappropriation too?
3. what about the seahawks totemic image?
isn't actual voting rights inequality more important than naming issues anyway?
1. are you going to work for voting rights for DC residents, or is their lack of voting rights okey dokey?
2. are you going to change teh symbol of Seattle, why isn't that misappropriation too?
3. what about the seahawks totemic image?
isn't actual voting rights inequality more important than naming issues anyway?
38
@33 actually, most Native Americans aren't bothered by these mascots (even Redskins, Indians, Braves, etc.). Unpaid Intern didn't bother providing such information because it destroys the narrative: a bunch of overcompensating white people being offended on behalf of another culture.
39
@37:
1. I favor voting rights for DC residents. I think most people do. It doesn't happen because of a lot of stupid political and procedural BS. (It's not even electoral votes, as the Constitution already guarantees them three.) Seems kind of pointless to tie the mascot issue to DC voting rights. (The mayor probably supports voting rights too.)
2. The city logo honors a particular person, just as King County's logo does. It's not a caricature of a complete ethnicity.
3. The Seahawks image is not a caricature of a person or group of people. It's a stylized drawing of a type of animal, though granted in a style more common north of here than in Seattle proper.
1. I favor voting rights for DC residents. I think most people do. It doesn't happen because of a lot of stupid political and procedural BS. (It's not even electoral votes, as the Constitution already guarantees them three.) Seems kind of pointless to tie the mascot issue to DC voting rights. (The mayor probably supports voting rights too.)
2. The city logo honors a particular person, just as King County's logo does. It's not a caricature of a complete ethnicity.
3. The Seahawks image is not a caricature of a person or group of people. It's a stylized drawing of a type of animal, though granted in a style more common north of here than in Seattle proper.
40
Well, Native Americans do not seem to care that much:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6093796/
Perhaps because they have a bit more to worry about than the names of football teams?
Been a Skins fan my whole life, not sure if I could live with a name change unless it was the Washington Monuments.
Personally, I find it quite funny that the name can still exist, so I like it a lot. Part of the reason it still exists is because every time people actually ask Native Americans, they do not find it offensive or do not care.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6093796/
Perhaps because they have a bit more to worry about than the names of football teams?
Been a Skins fan my whole life, not sure if I could live with a name change unless it was the Washington Monuments.
Personally, I find it quite funny that the name can still exist, so I like it a lot. Part of the reason it still exists is because every time people actually ask Native Americans, they do not find it offensive or do not care.
41
I think the origins of the name are worse than more people realize. Dave Zirin talks about it in his book "Bad Sports" about some of the most evil owners in sports (Redskins owner Dan Snyder being one of the worst) but I couldn't find any links to his wording of the name origins. All I could find was something similar from wikianswers:
"Back not so long ago, when there was a bounty on the heads of the Indian people, the trappers would bring in Indian scalps along with the other skins that they had managed to trap or shoot. The term "scalp" offended the good Christian women of the community and they asked that another term be found to describe these things. So, the trappers and hunters began using the term "redskin". The term came from the bloody mess that one saw when looking at the scalp. Thus the term "red" skin because it was the "skin" of an "animal" just like the others that they had, so it became "redskins."
"Back not so long ago, when there was a bounty on the heads of the Indian people, the trappers would bring in Indian scalps along with the other skins that they had managed to trap or shoot. The term "scalp" offended the good Christian women of the community and they asked that another term be found to describe these things. So, the trappers and hunters began using the term "redskin". The term came from the bloody mess that one saw when looking at the scalp. Thus the term "red" skin because it was the "skin" of an "animal" just like the others that they had, so it became "redskins."
42
Actually 40, many Native people find the name annoying and say so. It's typical of fans and team owners, and university boosters to do whatever they have to in order to protect their racist names.
Usually it starts with some fucking yahoo claiming the name is an "honor" and then when Native people object, other genius says "What about the fighting Irish" and then when Native people persist in saying "hey this is unacceptable" the people who claimed it was an honor start hurling a variety of the usual racial insults at the Native people who refused to feel honored.
So....if people say they aren't bothered by it, my guess is that people understand that racism doesn't go away easily and they can predict exactly how the conversation will devolve and then have to decide if that is a battle that is worth the effort. Usually it isn't and so it is much easier to just shrug and say "yeah, I don't care."
It doesn't necessarily mean that the person doesn't really care. He or she might just not care to engage you on the topic.
That said, why is it so goddamned important for white people to poll Native Americans and then when they find some that don't care, feel relieved to wallow in their favorite racist team name---like you for example?
If say, the Washington Racial Slurs had carried the name the Big Black Sambos do you think that media outlets would poll African Americans over and over to determine that they were okay with the name? Or would fucking common sense take over and the asshole owners get rid of that name realizing that having sports teams with names like Big Black Sambos is disgusting on it's face and that a poll was unnecessary?
Usually it starts with some fucking yahoo claiming the name is an "honor" and then when Native people object, other genius says "What about the fighting Irish" and then when Native people persist in saying "hey this is unacceptable" the people who claimed it was an honor start hurling a variety of the usual racial insults at the Native people who refused to feel honored.
So....if people say they aren't bothered by it, my guess is that people understand that racism doesn't go away easily and they can predict exactly how the conversation will devolve and then have to decide if that is a battle that is worth the effort. Usually it isn't and so it is much easier to just shrug and say "yeah, I don't care."
It doesn't necessarily mean that the person doesn't really care. He or she might just not care to engage you on the topic.
That said, why is it so goddamned important for white people to poll Native Americans and then when they find some that don't care, feel relieved to wallow in their favorite racist team name---like you for example?
If say, the Washington Racial Slurs had carried the name the Big Black Sambos do you think that media outlets would poll African Americans over and over to determine that they were okay with the name? Or would fucking common sense take over and the asshole owners get rid of that name realizing that having sports teams with names like Big Black Sambos is disgusting on it's face and that a poll was unnecessary?
43
My favorite team name is the University of Northern Colorado intramural basketball team's Fightin' Whities, so I'm probably disqualified from voting.
44
@42: Seems to me that if we are talking about an offensive name, the people it it supposed to offend should be asked about it. Whenever they do, about 90% of that group say they are not offended.
I just find it funny that white people are more offended by the name than actual Native Americans. Not surprising, white people love finding new ways to be offended on behalf of other people they see as helpless and therefore in need of some caucasian help. All this hand wringing is just a modern day "white man's burden" for lazy people.
Maybe Native Americans are tired of white people assuming they need our sympathies and pity. Of all the problems facing the Native American community, a fucking football team is not a priority. How much have you done for them, or is posting your manufactured outraged online the limit of your advocacy for Native Americans?
But all in all, I just don't care, because the team name hurts no one, just like Dan Savage saying "faggot" hurts no one. Love that fight song though, would hate it if it changed.
I just find it funny that white people are more offended by the name than actual Native Americans. Not surprising, white people love finding new ways to be offended on behalf of other people they see as helpless and therefore in need of some caucasian help. All this hand wringing is just a modern day "white man's burden" for lazy people.
Maybe Native Americans are tired of white people assuming they need our sympathies and pity. Of all the problems facing the Native American community, a fucking football team is not a priority. How much have you done for them, or is posting your manufactured outraged online the limit of your advocacy for Native Americans?
But all in all, I just don't care, because the team name hurts no one, just like Dan Savage saying "faggot" hurts no one. Love that fight song though, would hate it if it changed.
45
Names like "Chiefs", "Braves", and "Blackhawks" are okay because they're at least somewhat respectful of the people they're referencing. "Redskins" needs to go. We wouldn't tolerate the Brooklyn Kikes, would we?
46
Won't somebody please think of the poor white man and his diminishing ability to use racial slurs without getting frowned at?
47
Mr 44: I am Tlingit which is Alaskan Native. My outrage is not manufactured, sparky.
The survey cited was from 2004. Hardly current. Plus I would be fascinated to know how they identified the respondents as "Native American." If I had to guess, it was mostly people with imagined connections to heritage based on stories about a "dark-haired" ancestor of mysterious lineage-but probably royal.
I think even, the concept of "offense" is misleading. Taking offense, or being offended is in reference to a singular event, or a moment.
The reason why most Native people have bigger things to worry about than the name "redskins" is because the same thing that is at work that allows such a name to persist also are at work in affecting Native communities and their lives.
The survey cited was from 2004. Hardly current. Plus I would be fascinated to know how they identified the respondents as "Native American." If I had to guess, it was mostly people with imagined connections to heritage based on stories about a "dark-haired" ancestor of mysterious lineage-but probably royal.
I think even, the concept of "offense" is misleading. Taking offense, or being offended is in reference to a singular event, or a moment.
The reason why most Native people have bigger things to worry about than the name "redskins" is because the same thing that is at work that allows such a name to persist also are at work in affecting Native communities and their lives.
49
I'm part Cherokee, part Creole, and most African American. If anybody decided to name a football team the Darkies or the Frogs I'd be disgusted and so would anybody with any kind of goddamn sense. Change it yesterday.
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