Slog Comments
SL Letter of Day: Double Crossdressed
2
I was really hoping, from the title, that this would be a letter from someone who gets off on dressing as a woman who dresses as a man.
It would have been very Shakespearean.
It would have been very Shakespearean.
4
Hold on...8 hour bus ride away? On dwindling finances? I'm calling fake. Or somebody has a lot of money for a long shot.
5
Good advice as how to handle it. Probably the best way to handle the situation. But after I'd conquered shame and claimed my identity, I'd want to enact some serious revenge on Evil Bitch. But I'm just like that.
6
Please, please, please say "could not care less who knows..." - especially in a scenario like this that's already convoluted. Thank you.
7
@1
Me too. There are people who do bad things, and the righteous crusader in me wants to smite and punish.
But, as my mama taught me, it's better to take the high road, and in this case, I think the high road is truly best. Imagine how bad it would look if the cross-dressing individual responded to the Evil Bitch by some form of action: counter-posts on Facebook, Twitter wars, accusations of Evil Bitchery... none of it would accomplish anything at all, and all of it would look bad.
Any action will look defensive, and defensive is always the weaker position. Even though s/he is emphatically in the right, the more s/he protests, the worse s/he will look.
Me too. There are people who do bad things, and the righteous crusader in me wants to smite and punish.
But, as my mama taught me, it's better to take the high road, and in this case, I think the high road is truly best. Imagine how bad it would look if the cross-dressing individual responded to the Evil Bitch by some form of action: counter-posts on Facebook, Twitter wars, accusations of Evil Bitchery... none of it would accomplish anything at all, and all of it would look bad.
Any action will look defensive, and defensive is always the weaker position. Even though s/he is emphatically in the right, the more s/he protests, the worse s/he will look.
8
@1
What I'm trying to say is that the Evil Bitch would probably get a kick out of any kind of "action" on the part of the victim, whereas inaction, though frustrating and less rewarding, would give her nothing to work with.
What I'm trying to say is that the Evil Bitch would probably get a kick out of any kind of "action" on the part of the victim, whereas inaction, though frustrating and less rewarding, would give her nothing to work with.
10
@4 Megabus. Boltbus. The various Chinatown buses. Some routes with Greyhound, Peter Pan, etc. You find the right day, it costs $10 to go from Boston to DC.
11
Story doesn't really hold together: Your Friend (YF) got kicked out because of coming out to the hosting relative, and then YF is all worried someone will out YF to YF's family? YF's family already knows, or at least the ones who are open to it know.
Nevertheless, assuming YF is in some kind of shitty situation, you should encourage YF to find other people who will sympathize with YF's situation -- somewhere there is a cross-dressing, trans, and/or gender-queer community suited to YF. Also, you could consider lending YF enough money to get YF through this difficult time.
Also, just one editorial comment. I think it should be:
"But they all WOKE up one day happy to be free from the stress of keeping a big secret"
Nevertheless, assuming YF is in some kind of shitty situation, you should encourage YF to find other people who will sympathize with YF's situation -- somewhere there is a cross-dressing, trans, and/or gender-queer community suited to YF. Also, you could consider lending YF enough money to get YF through this difficult time.
Also, just one editorial comment. I think it should be:
"But they all WOKE up one day happy to be free from the stress of keeping a big secret"
12
@11 edit: YF's family already knows, or at least the ones who think they get a say in other people's personal lives.
13
Too. Much. Drama.
Let's look at what happened: Someone went out to dinner crossdressed. No one got tied up and shtupped (much to their apparent chagrin!). Any pictures are G-Rated. There are .two. .separate. coasts involved, and not very many overlapping acquaintances.
Letter writer's crossdressing friend is supposedly contemplating transition? Transsexual people may dress opposite their birth sex, but crossdressers are not usually transsexual, and gender-transgressive fetishists are almost never transsexual. Letter writer either doesn't understand their friend, or just slapped together a bunch of stuff to get a letter printed in a famous sex-advice writer's column.
Whether it's real or fake, this letter is useless, other than as motivation to go look up the actual parameters and expressions of transgender identity and life.
Let's look at what happened: Someone went out to dinner crossdressed. No one got tied up and shtupped (much to their apparent chagrin!). Any pictures are G-Rated. There are .two. .separate. coasts involved, and not very many overlapping acquaintances.
Letter writer's crossdressing friend is supposedly contemplating transition? Transsexual people may dress opposite their birth sex, but crossdressers are not usually transsexual, and gender-transgressive fetishists are almost never transsexual. Letter writer either doesn't understand their friend, or just slapped together a bunch of stuff to get a letter printed in a famous sex-advice writer's column.
Whether it's real or fake, this letter is useless, other than as motivation to go look up the actual parameters and expressions of transgender identity and life.
14
@10 I think what tipped me strange is 8 hours. I thought most of those were like 2-4 hours at most.
15
I don't think it's fake. I've known plenty of crossdressers that turned out to be trans. If this person was already living as a woman most of the time, wouldn't that rule out Tranvestic Fetishism? You act as if you assume the person was already a gender-transgressive fetishist, instead of it being just sex in the person's normal attire. And why is this letter useless? Said friend could have been linked here by the letter-writer to get advice that she wasn't willing to ask for herself. I've had secrets outed on me by people I thought were friends, and it sucked. The advice the columnist wrote is sound. Don't react, and you won't get a reaction.
16
Ugh. Props to you Dan for just wadding through this shit. Remember back in the good ol' days when people wrote to you on paper? glad you at least don't have to decipher sloppy handwriting.
17
@14 winter roads might have delayed the journey, and I'll allow a little room for exaggeration before calling fake.
18
I can't help but notice the lack of genitals and/or body fluids in this letter. What the fuck is this?
19
@17 It's that very exaggeration that makes me skeptical. The LW seems to go for Maximum Pathos at every turn. Victor Hugo would have been proud.
I'm not calling this fake. It just seems that the goal of the LW isn't to ask a question, but in telling a tale of sordid woe.
I'm not calling this fake. It just seems that the goal of the LW isn't to ask a question, but in telling a tale of sordid woe.
20
The thing that makes this a fake is the dinner photos. Also, the dinner. The woman sexually rejects this person's friend upon seeing her ... which if true has gotta hurt something fierce, right? Has gotta be fairly crushing and humiliating? You would not want to hang around another second with the person, right? Yet accepts an offer of dinner ... and then let's capture the moment with pictures? Didn't happen.
The thing that makes this a fake is the dinner photos. Also, the dinner. The woman sexually rejects this person's friend upon seeing her ... which if true has gotta hurt something fierce, right? Has gotta be fairly crushing and humiliating? You would not want to hang around another second with the person, right? Yet accepts an offer of dinner ... and then let's capture the moment with pictures? Didn't happen.
21
@13 I agree with @15 that it's not as black and white as you say. The trans spectrum is a slippery slope.
That said, I know a few things about crossdressers; I've got a fetish for 'em. I think this letter is a fake. I think it was written BY the crossdresser, who is now masturbating like crazy seeing their story in print. There are some exceptions, but almost all crossdressers (I'm not talking about transsexuals) are sexually submissive, and the most terrifying and potent fantasy is being forced to be dressed in public. When I talk dirty to My girlfriend, one of the threats I use to get her off is that I might punish her by forcing her to take the train home dressed in female mode. The idea of being publicly humiliated like that by an "Evil Bitch": bus ride, dinner out, and then the full Facebook outing to family and friends--this is crossdresser fantasy #1. Of course after they come they are horrified at the idea.
The details clinch it, "mani, pedi, newly pierced ears". Only a mani is really noticeable in public--a friend describing this would talk about the actual women's clothes the person was wearing. CD's like the idea of longlasting changes--mani, pedi, pierced ears, full body waxing, feminine hair cuts and dye jobs. They like the idea of difficulty going back to boy mode.
That said, I know a few things about crossdressers; I've got a fetish for 'em. I think this letter is a fake. I think it was written BY the crossdresser, who is now masturbating like crazy seeing their story in print. There are some exceptions, but almost all crossdressers (I'm not talking about transsexuals) are sexually submissive, and the most terrifying and potent fantasy is being forced to be dressed in public. When I talk dirty to My girlfriend, one of the threats I use to get her off is that I might punish her by forcing her to take the train home dressed in female mode. The idea of being publicly humiliated like that by an "Evil Bitch": bus ride, dinner out, and then the full Facebook outing to family and friends--this is crossdresser fantasy #1. Of course after they come they are horrified at the idea.
The details clinch it, "mani, pedi, newly pierced ears". Only a mani is really noticeable in public--a friend describing this would talk about the actual women's clothes the person was wearing. CD's like the idea of longlasting changes--mani, pedi, pierced ears, full body waxing, feminine hair cuts and dye jobs. They like the idea of difficulty going back to boy mode.
22
You are sharp, Marrena and others. In the off chance that someone else is in a similar real situation, a calm ambiguous Facebook response like "This is mean." Without specifying why it is mean will allow anyone to interpret any way they want yet point out that Evil Bitchy was...mean. Clean and simple but you have more experience to know if it would be an effective response.
23
@21 I think the slipperiest part of this "slippery slope" is not the identity of the "trans" person, but the language we use to to discuss it.
Sex (birth), gender (identity), libido (sex/fetish), orientation (preference) and presentation (esthetic) are, believe it or not, all separate and independent variables. Some non-vanilla people can have a set of these that makes their life more awkward than others.
Not every straight, crossdressing (MtF) male, however, can be assumed to be either submissive or a fetishist, especially those who are comfortable and well-groomed in public. Our language and assumptions often fail us when we try discussing them. Not everyone is 100% male or 100% female in either their gender identity or esthetic/presentation. I think we need to discuss gender separately from sexuality, in all meanings of both words. In our society, women can dress/express/explore their masculine side with infinitely greater freedom than we allow males to dress/express/explore their feminine side. We have to stop thinking in terms of male part-time MtF crossdressers as always being fetishists. Which is certainly not to say they never are.
As for the letter writer, I agree with you that they're likely describing their very own masturbatory fantasy. At least with email, Dan doesn't have to worry about handling written letters covered in spooge stains.
Sex (birth), gender (identity), libido (sex/fetish), orientation (preference) and presentation (esthetic) are, believe it or not, all separate and independent variables. Some non-vanilla people can have a set of these that makes their life more awkward than others.
Not every straight, crossdressing (MtF) male, however, can be assumed to be either submissive or a fetishist, especially those who are comfortable and well-groomed in public. Our language and assumptions often fail us when we try discussing them. Not everyone is 100% male or 100% female in either their gender identity or esthetic/presentation. I think we need to discuss gender separately from sexuality, in all meanings of both words. In our society, women can dress/express/explore their masculine side with infinitely greater freedom than we allow males to dress/express/explore their feminine side. We have to stop thinking in terms of male part-time MtF crossdressers as always being fetishists. Which is certainly not to say they never are.
As for the letter writer, I agree with you that they're likely describing their very own masturbatory fantasy. At least with email, Dan doesn't have to worry about handling written letters covered in spooge stains.
25
I don't get why the cross-dressing friend doesn't just say they were going to a halloween-style dress-up party where ppl were encouraged to wear drag. And even though it wasn't his thing he went along with it cause he thought it would be fun to try once. Am I missing something??
26
Whether this letter is real or fake is irrelevant. As Dan mentioned in the past, fake letters do slip by, however the advice is not just for the LW. The advice can be for anyone else reading who would be in a similar situation.
To be honest, this letter does smell fishy but take away should be, what do you know if someone outs you this way (whether that is your kinks, your gender identity, your sexual orientation).
Here are my 2 cents on how I would handle it. Given that is outing is confined to social media I would use that medium to out Evil Bitch for the evil bitch that they are. Write a blog, make an online post, whatever, describing how you were wronged by this person. Own up to who you are (whether you're a kinky person who dresses up for fun, a bigendered crossdresser expressing yourself or crossdresser not yet ready to accept transition, or any other identity on the crossdressing spectrum) and mention that there is nothing wrong with you (because it's true). Then describe the evil bitch, show the messages of false promises, of her wanting to have a bi encounter, of her doing a 180 and then calling you a faggot, of her not respecting your privacy. Put it all out in the open. The beauty of social media is that you will garner far more support and people will see Evil Bitch for who she really is.
To be honest, this letter does smell fishy but take away should be, what do you know if someone outs you this way (whether that is your kinks, your gender identity, your sexual orientation).
Here are my 2 cents on how I would handle it. Given that is outing is confined to social media I would use that medium to out Evil Bitch for the evil bitch that they are. Write a blog, make an online post, whatever, describing how you were wronged by this person. Own up to who you are (whether you're a kinky person who dresses up for fun, a bigendered crossdresser expressing yourself or crossdresser not yet ready to accept transition, or any other identity on the crossdressing spectrum) and mention that there is nothing wrong with you (because it's true). Then describe the evil bitch, show the messages of false promises, of her wanting to have a bi encounter, of her doing a 180 and then calling you a faggot, of her not respecting your privacy. Put it all out in the open. The beauty of social media is that you will garner far more support and people will see Evil Bitch for who she really is.
27
@1: "when jerks get rewarded with inaction on the part of the offended"
We all hate that, but challenging these horrible people isn't as satisfying as you're playing off here. The people who care, will already care. They win because they don't care about burning bridges.
We all hate that, but challenging these horrible people isn't as satisfying as you're playing off here. The people who care, will already care. They win because they don't care about burning bridges.
28
@26 Yes. If one has the courage for it, the best way to respond to a blackmailer or sadistic information releaser/malicious meddler is to take away their power to further hurt you by owning up to the truth and, if likely to have a positive effect, exposing what they are doing.
29
Honestly, what does Evil Bitch have that isn't trivially easy to fake or misrepresent?
So EB had dinner with someone who looks like one might imagine Your Friend in drag?
Depending on what your friend has publicly stated about this, a combination of bemusement and bewilderment might totally diffuse this.
"Wow! She totally does look like me!" "That's kinda funny" "I don't get why Evil Bitch is presenting it quite like that"
So EB had dinner with someone who looks like one might imagine Your Friend in drag?
Depending on what your friend has publicly stated about this, a combination of bemusement and bewilderment might totally diffuse this.
"Wow! She totally does look like me!" "That's kinda funny" "I don't get why Evil Bitch is presenting it quite like that"
30
@23 I've found, in my admittedly small sample, that very few crossdressers are 100% fetishistic, or at least don't stay that way. Or maybe those types are able to easily stay fully closeted and I'm not exposed to them, the kind that can only beat off wearing pantyhose or a girdle. I think that's more of an item fetish than a crossdressing fetish.
What I've found with crossdressers is that they find dressing relaxing, and over time they will want to dress even when they aren't turned on. I've even watched basketball games with crossdressers completely dressed. But they aren't transsexuals either--they like their male life and their maleness (even if they might tuck when dressed).
I shouldn't say that most crossdressers are always sexually submissive. My girlfriend, when male, fucks me like a longshoreman--always missionary, very athletic, last time we got together eight times in one weekend! Girthy too, and hang-a-towel-on-it boners. :D I know, TMI, but I'm trying to contrast with the stereotype that sissies aren't interested in intercourse. But when dressed, she's very submissive. And that's been my experience, even with very experienced CD's who no longer feel a thrill when out and about dressed--get them in the bedroom and if they are dressed they love to be tied up. I can think of some exceptions, some switches, but crossdressing and bondage seem to go together like peanut butter and jelly.
Of course there are vanilla crossdressers out there, but with conversing with many of them online, I get the feeling that the lack of bondage is out of fear of spooking the already GGG wife/girlfriend. And I completely get that--women who like CD's are rare and should be treasured and accommodated. But when I ask, "Would you like it if your wife decided to tie you up?" the answer has always been yes.
On the other hand, I'm probably like those gay men who think everybody is gay. Just because I like to tie, doesn't mean that everyone likes to be tied.
More...
What I've found with crossdressers is that they find dressing relaxing, and over time they will want to dress even when they aren't turned on. I've even watched basketball games with crossdressers completely dressed. But they aren't transsexuals either--they like their male life and their maleness (even if they might tuck when dressed).
I shouldn't say that most crossdressers are always sexually submissive. My girlfriend, when male, fucks me like a longshoreman--always missionary, very athletic, last time we got together eight times in one weekend! Girthy too, and hang-a-towel-on-it boners. :D I know, TMI, but I'm trying to contrast with the stereotype that sissies aren't interested in intercourse. But when dressed, she's very submissive. And that's been my experience, even with very experienced CD's who no longer feel a thrill when out and about dressed--get them in the bedroom and if they are dressed they love to be tied up. I can think of some exceptions, some switches, but crossdressing and bondage seem to go together like peanut butter and jelly.
Of course there are vanilla crossdressers out there, but with conversing with many of them online, I get the feeling that the lack of bondage is out of fear of spooking the already GGG wife/girlfriend. And I completely get that--women who like CD's are rare and should be treasured and accommodated. But when I ask, "Would you like it if your wife decided to tie you up?" the answer has always been yes.
On the other hand, I'm probably like those gay men who think everybody is gay. Just because I like to tie, doesn't mean that everyone likes to be tied.
31
How about this for a response to Evil Bitch's facebook post:
"I told you that this stuff was private, Evil Bitch, but if you want this all in public, I just have to say you seriously need to get over me refusing to shit on your breasts. It's gross and unhygienic. And you need to learn to accept it when people don't want to do your weird shit."
"I told you that this stuff was private, Evil Bitch, but if you want this all in public, I just have to say you seriously need to get over me refusing to shit on your breasts. It's gross and unhygienic. And you need to learn to accept it when people don't want to do your weird shit."
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