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keshmeshi 1
Why isn't it good enough for parents to prove residency?

Posted by keshmeshi on January 15, 2013 at 1:33 PM · Report this
Goldy 2
@1 That's not how the bill is written. Because Haler is stupid, and didn't think this through.
Posted by Goldy on January 15, 2013 at 1:35 PM · Report this
But I thought we wanted to register and license people using dangerous machinery? Seems like a good idea to me. Unless there's a difference between requiring proof of residency for a gun license - which you should have to do - and for a driver's license - which you should also have to do.
Posted by NateMan on January 15, 2013 at 1:35 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 4
My guess is it's about republicans' unwarranted fears of widespread voter fraud. They want people to "prove" they're not illegal immigrants.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on January 15, 2013 at 1:39 PM · Report this
@3: Why do you think one should reside in Washington in order to be licensed by the state to operate motor vehicles on our public roads?
Posted by Phil M on January 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM · Report this
Timrrr 6
He's from Richland. He's afraid "illegals" will get drivers licenses and steal all our good-paying Amer'kin pizza delivery jobs, dontchaknow!
Posted by Timrrr on January 15, 2013 at 1:47 PM · Report this
@5: Sorry, is this a trick question? Cuuuuz typically you need to be a resident to get a license and insurance, and at least here in MA you need both of those to operate a vehicle. And rightly so.
Posted by NateMan on January 15, 2013 at 1:50 PM · Report this
Unregistered User 8
Kids old enough to get their learner's don't have jobs and bank accounts already?
Posted by Unregistered User on January 15, 2013 at 1:53 PM · Report this
seandr 9
How is this different from current law? I recall having to show proof of residency (think I brought in a utility bill) back in 1992 to get my WA state driver's license.
Posted by seandr on January 15, 2013 at 1:56 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 10
Why can't they just use their concealed weapons permits?
Posted by Will in Seattle on January 15, 2013 at 1:57 PM · Report this
seandr 11
After my wife mistakenly throw away the $140 my son had managed to saved up during his 8 years in this world (he had wrapped it in paper that looked like garbage), both my kids now have bank accounts.
Posted by seandr on January 15, 2013 at 2:00 PM · Report this
Timrrr 12
Of course, he's an idiot too.

Washington State Law already requires those documents if you lack (or don't want to give) a Social Security # to get a license:

2. Social Security number

You must provide your Social Security number to get a driver license.

If you don’t have a Social Security number, you may sign a declaration form and provide proof of Washington residence.
If you’re applying for a Commercial Driver License (CDL), you must provide your Social Security number. We can’t issue you a CDL if you don’t have one.

Proof of Washington residence

If you don’t have a Social Security number:

1) Bring as many of the following documents as possible to be reviewed as proof of your Washington residence address:

Home utility bill (gas, electric, water, garbage, land-line telephone, or ISTA. etc).
Not acceptable: Cable, internet or satellite TV bills.

A college or university document that has your current residential address on file.
Off-campus students: Bring the printout from the SEVIS database which:
Is in a sealed envelope with the college return address.
Has your address
Has proof it was printed by the “Designated School Official” or “Responsible Officer.”

WA Department of Corrections (DOC) electronic ID Letter that has your current residential address.

Selective Service card with your current residential address.

Vehicle title (not a Quick Title with a tamper proof tape over the VIN and Title number).

Bank-issued documents, for the last 30 days which include your current residential address, such as:

Account statement

Credit card statement

Mortgage statement

Note: Your documents must include your name and current Washington residential address. It’s illegal to present fraudulent documents. If we find that your documents are fraudulent, you won’t be able to reapply for 364 days.

When you apply, you’ll get a handout with instructions for completing the application process.
Within 2 weeks, we’ll send you a letter and form to request an appointment with us to review your documents.
Complete the form and send it back to us by mail or fax following the instructions on the form.
We’ll call you to schedule an appointment, and meet with you to verify your proof of Washington residence.
After we verify your Washington residence address, we’ll issue your driver license, photo instruction permit, or ID card.

Silly GOP legislator, doesn't even know the law he's seeking to change!
Posted by Timrrr on January 15, 2013 at 2:05 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 13
@ 9, were you 15 or 16 then?
Posted by Matt from Denver on January 15, 2013 at 2:06 PM · Report this
seandr 14
@13: No, but the question still stands - what is this this law changing? Has it removed special provisions for minors, or simply reduced the number of options for establishing residency?

Seems like an important info if we're to understand exactly we're griping about, here.
Posted by seandr on January 15, 2013 at 2:15 PM · Report this
Matt the Engineer 15
I recommend a VoIP phone account. They're $10 a month, count as a utility, and they'll print any address you want on your bill. Of course, I'm not sure how the state can really verify your address - are we sending DOL workers house to house knocking on doors now?
Posted by Matt the Engineer on January 15, 2013 at 2:19 PM · Report this
Goldy 16
@14 Well, I took my daughter to get her permit a couple weeks ago, and no proof of residence was required for her. She provided her Social Security number and used her passport as ID, and I showed my driver's license in vouching for her as her parent. But she didn't put my address on the form, she put her mother's, and that's where her permit was sent.

The way this bill is written, she would have had to additionally show proof of residence as per paragraph 7. A parent can vouch for the child's ID, but there's no provision for vouching for their residence.

Haler just didn't think this through.
Posted by Goldy on January 15, 2013 at 2:28 PM · Report this
I have to say that I don't remember what documentation I had to show to get a driver's lisence the first time, because that was 40 years ago.

I know for a fact, though, that I didn't have a utility bill, a paycheck, or a government check.

My guess is that my mother went with me and signed a statement verifying that I lived with her at her address. Having a parent or guardian vouch for an address seemed (and still seems) perfectly reasonable to me, but that option is not allowed in this proposed bill.
Posted by Clayton on January 15, 2013 at 2:29 PM · Report this
Once a thoughtful legislator in my home district. Sad....
Posted by Bean on January 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM · Report this
SchmuckyTheCat 19
My daughter got her first state ID card around age 6. And an Enhanced ID (passport replacement for N America) around age 11. She was supposed to have a paycheck first?
Posted by SchmuckyTheCat on January 15, 2013 at 2:45 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 20
@ 14, I was more interested in your bringing up how you brought in a utility bill for your first WA license. Because if you were an adult living on your own, your experience doesn't really have any bearing on the matter.

Anyway, the point wasn't as much as "what does the law change" (although I believe it means that the parent won't be able to vouch for the child anymore) as much as "how stupid is it to require these things of minors." When I register my daughters at school, I show my utility bill but I have nothing to really show that they live with my wife and I. They're names aren't on the bill. I have their birth certificates, social security cards and immunization records, but they could still be living with their grandparents across town for all they know, or with out of state relatives. Sure, they have savings accounts, but it's silly to require everyone to have one. What if my family was chronically indigent? What if we were in the dreaded Checks system? How would that affect the girls' ability to open accounts? Or would we be subject to additional fees and the like thanks to our helplessness in the face of this requirement?

It's like Goldy says. It's a poorly thought out bill, a knee-jerk thing to show his constituents that he's keeping illegals in check, creating the very red tape he claims to fight and inconveniencing Washingtonians who don't need the hassle.
Posted by Matt from Denver on January 15, 2013 at 2:49 PM · Report this
@7: No, it's not a trick question. I didn't ask you what the law is, I asked you for more detail about your expressed opinion of it. Again: Why do you think one should reside in Washington in order to be licensed by the state to operate motor vehicles on our public roads? I think we should license anyone who proves qualified and pays the fee to drive on our roads.
Posted by Phil M on January 15, 2013 at 2:50 PM · Report this
Do we know that Haler wrote this bill himself? My understanding is most legislation is written by lobbyist groups who then hand it to a Rep along with a "campaign donation" or other inducement.

Given his district, party, and target, I'd wager that this is a anti-immigrant bill that he introduced on behalf of a dimwitted Tea Party type of group.
Posted by Sir Vic on January 15, 2013 at 3:14 PM · Report this
Joe Szilagyi 23
@21 that gets sticky if a driver's license can be used to validate/authenticate one as a Washington State voter.
Posted by Joe Szilagyi on January 15, 2013 at 3:28 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 24

But they're not. I've never had to show my driver's license to vote in this state. Have you? If you have, I recommend contacting a civil rights attorney.
Posted by keshmeshi on January 15, 2013 at 3:36 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 25
And do "illegals" not pay utilities? How is this law a check on them?
Posted by keshmeshi on January 15, 2013 at 3:37 PM · Report this
@23: Looking at a certificate indicating that one is authorized by the state to operate motor vehicles on public roads is a bone-headed way of determining voter eligibility. If we need proof of residency in our pockets, then let's issue residency cards to residents.
Posted by Phil M on January 15, 2013 at 3:41 PM · Report this
I think you're all reading it wrong. Section 1 states:

"5 Sec. 1. RCW 46.20.035 and 2008 c 267 s 8 are each amended to read
6 as follows:
7 The department may not issue an identicard or a Washington state
8 driver's license that is valid for identification purposes unless the
9 applicant meets the identification requirements of subsections (1),
10 (2), or (3) and (7) of this section."

With the way the punctuation is laid out, I think that you have to meet the requirements in subsection (1), or subsection (2), or both subsections (3) AND (7). If you meet the requirements in subsections (1) or (2), subsection (7) is irrelevant.

At least that's the way I'm reading it. If I'm wrong, I agree with all of the other posters that this was written very poorly. But I think the way I'm seeing it is the way it was intended. Pulling subsection (7) out of the whole law is an example of misleading reporting.
Posted by kcharm on January 15, 2013 at 4:08 PM · Report this
Knat 29
A GOP legislator proposing licensing legislation outside an election yeah? Whaaaa...?
Posted by Knat on January 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 30
Can King County leave Washington State now..please???
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on January 15, 2013 at 5:20 PM · Report this
orino 31
Except for the notarization, Oregon does this. Always has, as far as I know, tho I don't think you can use a P.O. box at the UPS Store anymore. Of course, in Oregon you can get a driver's license and license plates at the same office...
Posted by orino on January 15, 2013 at 5:38 PM · Report this
Goldy 32
@28 Read on. The bill amends two different statutes. The second, the one controlling permits, specifically references section 7 of the first.
Posted by Goldy on January 15, 2013 at 7:36 PM · Report this
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe 33
After spending a week in Puerto Vallarta with my son, 19, who was able to go out clubbing and drinking in a safe downtown and then take a low cost taxi back to the resort, I now believe that:

Drinking Age, 18
Voting Age, 21
Driving Age, 25

(Age of marriage for males should also be 27 or greater..but that is another comment, in another thread!)
Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe http://_ on January 15, 2013 at 9:28 PM · Report this
He is definitely an idiot, but the people he represents are worse idiots and this is the time (first week of the session) that legislators drop bills that pay off those worse idiots for voting for them. Then they can go back to futzing about the evil gummint.
Posted by sarah70 on January 15, 2013 at 9:53 PM · Report this

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