Slog Comments
NRA Hits a New Low
2
So much for the "us" v. "them" divisiveness of the last election being over. Way to go, NRA.
So, by being against completely unregulated gun ownership, am I now a member of The Elite? Cool! When's the next party?
So, by being against completely unregulated gun ownership, am I now a member of The Elite? Cool! When's the next party?
3
I am convinced that the NRA is akin to the Catholic Church in America - lots of "members" on the roles, but only a minority of them actually take it seriously.
As for this ad, it's the dumbest thing I've seen in ages. Right down to the cheesy voice-over actor. I think certain kinds of voices (Rush Limbaugh being the prime example) are pitched to appeal to stupid people.
As for this ad, it's the dumbest thing I've seen in ages. Right down to the cheesy voice-over actor. I think certain kinds of voices (Rush Limbaugh being the prime example) are pitched to appeal to stupid people.
4
This is a Teabaggers dream and the beginning of the end for the NRA. Americans have had it with the slaughter.
5
Racial tones aside, YES, THE HIGHEST PROFILE TERRORIST/RANSOM/EXTORTION/BLACKMALE TARGETS IN THE WORLD ARE "MORE IMPORTANT" THAN YOUR SHITTY KID AT PUYALLUP HIGH SCHOOL
(sorry to yell, it makes me want to scream)
It is not elitist nor hypocritical, it is absolutely essential to -gasp- Homeland Security, no matter who their most powerful parent in the world happens to be
(sorry to yell, it makes me want to scream)
It is not elitist nor hypocritical, it is absolutely essential to -gasp- Homeland Security, no matter who their most powerful parent in the world happens to be
6
@5: Haha, "Blackmale" targets.
You just mistakingly spelled out the real fears of the isolated gun hoarders.
You just mistakingly spelled out the real fears of the isolated gun hoarders.
9
You know, Feinstein knows something about guns, since she found the dead bodies of Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone.
She's also a huge target, being a Senator and all.
What a bunch of dumbasses.
Anyone who is still a member of the NRA should feel ashamed.
She's also a huge target, being a Senator and all.
What a bunch of dumbasses.
Anyone who is still a member of the NRA should feel ashamed.
10
"especially if it's true, as has been widely reported, that this first family has faced a unique degree of threat."
... often from NRA members, as it happens.
... often from NRA members, as it happens.
15
You know? Now that I think about it, this NRA ad, about safety for all our children, is the strongest argument ever for completely de-arming the civilian population. No civilian guns = no kids dead from civilian guns. None. Not any.
As for the Obama girls going to a Quaker school, there's an interesting nonviolence aspect to that. The Quaker "Testimony of Peace" would make it very unlikely that openly armed guards would ever be allowed there. I'll bet the whole issue of Secret Service agents on the premises involved much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth on the part of the Trustees, much prayer, and seeking a way forward for the common good.
As for the Obama girls going to a Quaker school, there's an interesting nonviolence aspect to that. The Quaker "Testimony of Peace" would make it very unlikely that openly armed guards would ever be allowed there. I'll bet the whole issue of Secret Service agents on the premises involved much hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth on the part of the Trustees, much prayer, and seeking a way forward for the common good.
16
I'd support putting armed guards in every school if we levy taxes on every gun, ammunition sales AND renewal license fees EVERY year. If we have to do that for cars that a lot of gun advocates claim kill more people than guns then it's reasonable to charge taxes for protection of school.
17
Has the NRA come up with a way to fully fund their "armed guard in every school" policy? Or will it be funded the way the Iraqi invasion was "funded"?
18
As a gun owner, the NRA generally does a terrible job of making their case and isn't nearly as effective as people think they are.
@9 Senator Feinstein used to have a concealed carry permit.
@9 Senator Feinstein used to have a concealed carry permit.
19
Exactly what is "Stand and Fight" supposed to be advocating here? It calls the President names (because the NRA is run by primary school-aged children, apparently), implies he steals all your money and refuses to spend any of it by assigning a Secret Service detail to every child in America, then we see "Stand and Fight" on the screen? Does anyone else think that sounds like a dog whistle call to armed revolt?
No, no, that's ridiculous. I'm sure it meant "call your elected official and voice your opposition to things Obama hasn't actually done yet." I'm sure it didn't intend any seditious undertones for the loonies who might see this. The NRA has scruples and would never do that. Ever.
No, no, that's ridiculous. I'm sure it meant "call your elected official and voice your opposition to things Obama hasn't actually done yet." I'm sure it didn't intend any seditious undertones for the loonies who might see this. The NRA has scruples and would never do that. Ever.
20
@18
Ineffective? The NRA has gutted and hobbled law enforcement. Filibustered a vote on the head of the ATF. Filibustered lower court judicial nominations. You don't need to bribe the whole Senate for a filibuster. They've stopped all funding for any research into gun violence at several different governemnt agencies.
It's more to the point that NRA members do a terrible job of participating in the democracy they say they care about. They write checks and look the other way while the NRA helps criminals get guns.
Ineffective? The NRA has gutted and hobbled law enforcement. Filibustered a vote on the head of the ATF. Filibustered lower court judicial nominations. You don't need to bribe the whole Senate for a filibuster. They've stopped all funding for any research into gun violence at several different governemnt agencies.
It's more to the point that NRA members do a terrible job of participating in the democracy they say they care about. They write checks and look the other way while the NRA helps criminals get guns.
22
@3: you are correct. The NRA administers shooting leagues and competitions all over the country. They do record-keeping, certify officials and safety officers and what-not. Participants in these competitions pay an entry fee, part of which goes to a membership in the NRA. I think you'd have to really work at it to opt out. It happened to me. I didn't know they were going to do it, and one day I got a letter from the NRA welcoming me as a member. Imagine my surprise.
23
Gee, it's almost as if any given President and first family has a greater need for Secret Service protection than Joe fucking Schmo.
24
School never really did much for any American kids, and they're getting dumber by the year. Just stop sending kids to school and the problem is solved.
25
On a similar note, how come *OBAMA* thinks he deserves access to classified documents while hard-working "real" Americans have to sit on our hands and wait for declassification? Does he think he's better than us?
26
As for funding armed guards:
I teach in a school that has five buildings scattered across a wide campus. School activities generally start at about 7:00 a.m. and, what with meetings and extra-curricular activities, they often continue long into the night (9:00 or 10:00 p.m.). So, assuming one armed guard in each building, and assuming we'd need two labor shifts to cover all activities, that's ten full-time salaries BEFORE we talk about how to staff security for weekend activities (like dances and plays).
In the meantime, we've lost three teaching positions in the last three years due to budget cuts.
So, fine. If the NRA insists we need armed guards, I'll be willing to entertain the proposal. But first the NRA has to come up with how we're going to pay for them.
I teach in a school that has five buildings scattered across a wide campus. School activities generally start at about 7:00 a.m. and, what with meetings and extra-curricular activities, they often continue long into the night (9:00 or 10:00 p.m.). So, assuming one armed guard in each building, and assuming we'd need two labor shifts to cover all activities, that's ten full-time salaries BEFORE we talk about how to staff security for weekend activities (like dances and plays).
In the meantime, we've lost three teaching positions in the last three years due to budget cuts.
So, fine. If the NRA insists we need armed guards, I'll be willing to entertain the proposal. But first the NRA has to come up with how we're going to pay for them.
27
Yeah, I'm sure that individuals *swamp* the amount of money donated to the NRA compared to Smith and Wesson, Colt, and Remington.
Oh wait, they don't: http://www.vpc.org/studies/bloodmoney.pd…
Oh wait, they don't: http://www.vpc.org/studies/bloodmoney.pd…
28
@26
The NRA plans to pay for the armed guards by cutting public school spending and givng tax breaks to the wealthy of course!
The NRA plans to pay for the armed guards by cutting public school spending and givng tax breaks to the wealthy of course!
29
The NRA ad is so incredibly disingenuous ! By all accounts, Obama is the most threatened President in history. He gets between 50 and 100 potential death threats A DAY. 365 days a year. And as # 10 pointed out, probably a (un)healthy chunk are coming from NRA members.
I'm glad I didn't bet on how low they would sink-I'd have lost that one.
I'm glad I didn't bet on how low they would sink-I'd have lost that one.
30
The NRA ad is so incredibly disingenuous ! By all accounts, Obama is the most threatened President in history. He gets between 50 and 100 potential death threats A DAY. 365 days a year. And as # 10 pointed out, probably a (un)healthy chunk are coming from NRA members.
I'm glad I didn't bet on how low they would sink-I'd have lost that one.
I'm glad I didn't bet on how low they would sink-I'd have lost that one.
31
HOLY SHIT. When Papa Bush throws up his hands and says lose my number, you are beneath contempt. And any first family, let alone the first black first family, is in need of more security than an ordinary citizen's family. This is disgusting on SO many levels.
32
Yep. Remember everyone leaving Chelsea alone during her dad's scandals? That's the way to do it. That way we don't have insano princes like that stupid English dude who wore a Nazi uniform to a Halloween party. Paws off the offspring!
33
@ 26. And not pay minimum wage for them. In order for those guards to be useful, they would have to be well trained, and well vetted. Can't just use a bunch of high school dropout doorknob shakers.
I wonder, too, at how many highly trained individuals there are out there who would be eager to spend their professional lives standing around guarding a place where the odds are very good it would never be attacked. I mean, yes, there are far too many school shootings, no question. Still, compared to the number of schools out there, a school shooting is a very rare thing.
I wonder, too, at how many highly trained individuals there are out there who would be eager to spend their professional lives standing around guarding a place where the odds are very good it would never be attacked. I mean, yes, there are far too many school shootings, no question. Still, compared to the number of schools out there, a school shooting is a very rare thing.
34
@17: They are specifically "funding" it by calling on retired cops to volunteer for this as a full-time zero-pay job.
My town has 4 elementary schools, 1 middle school, 1 high school. I imagine you would need more than one cop at each. I don't think we have that many retired cops in this town, certainly not who are young and spry enough for a full-time gig.
My town has 4 elementary schools, 1 middle school, 1 high school. I imagine you would need more than one cop at each. I don't think we have that many retired cops in this town, certainly not who are young and spry enough for a full-time gig.
35
@ 34 - "a full-time zero-pay job. "
From now on, not just as a temporary measure to bridge an emergency, but as policy for the ongoing future. Yeah, good luck with that.
From now on, not just as a temporary measure to bridge an emergency, but as policy for the ongoing future. Yeah, good luck with that.
36
Yeah, because cops on retirement are going to be so eager to work full time now that they don't have to.
Cops are not stupid. They know that when someone wants to hire them for their experience and training, they should expect commensurate pay. It's not uncommon for cops to have 2nd jobs as security guards where they command high hourly wages.
Cops are not stupid. They know that when someone wants to hire them for their experience and training, they should expect commensurate pay. It's not uncommon for cops to have 2nd jobs as security guards where they command high hourly wages.
37
My objection to the NRA ad is a very obvious one.
Let me start out with a rhetorical question: NRA how stupid and callous can you be?
Apparently, quite stupid and quite callous.
The ad in question seeks to equate the security needs for the average child to the security needs for a child of, like it or not, the political leader of the free world.
Obviously, the Obama kids and family need more security than do average kids. I suppose that a terrorist might kidnap one of mine and demand that I release prisoners. However, since I have no authority to do that, the efficacy of the demand is pretty limited, and so our risk level is less than that endured by the Obamas, (or by the Bushs, the Clintons, the Fords, the Nixons, etc., etc., etc.).
Hence, the average person must be extremely unlucky to have their family embroiled in such a terrorist political incident.
However, the Obama children are logical targets because the average terrorist would see threatening the Obama kids, but much less so mine, as potentially politically efficacious.
But let us ignore the NRA's disingenuous ad for the moment.
I probably will never know someone personally who was touched by terrorism involving a close family member as victim.
That said, because of the lax gun laws and the NRA advocacy for same, it is a virtual certainty that that I will know or be related to a person murdered or gravely injured with a gun.
As, in fact, I already have/am.
One of my close relatives, was murdered with a gun.
Not by a stranger, though.
She was murdered by a family "friend"
NRA is complicit in all of the gun murders that happen in the US every year, including that of my relative.
How about establishing concretely the connection of the NRA leadership and their ilk to the extreme ease of murder using the deadly devices they have advocated for and to the high frequency of gun murder?
Sure looks like a strong and valid connection between NRA advocacy and tragedy.
Therefore, let us pursue wrongful death suits against NRA for each and every one gun murder.
NRA has had a hand in every gun tragedy that has occurred in the US.
Unregulated, widespread gun ownership is a public health crisis with huge body count, which NRA is greatly exacerbating.
In toto, it seems to me that that NRA actions are MUCH more likely to cause gun deaths than they are to prevent gun deaths.
One gets the sense that NRA would happily allow the murder of my children, your children, all the children in the world, rather than contemplate any regulation of the deadly implements they favor for their own pleasure and financial gain, no matter how reasonable those regulations are.
How selfish can they be?
My relative's family was not consoled in the least by the thought that, though their loved one was brutally murdered, at least gun fanciers had free access to guns.
Time to start actively ignoring NRA and opposing their nutty anti-citizen political agenda with extreme prejudice.
Whatever they advocate for will be bad for the American people. You can take that to the bank.
Therefore, tax NRA out of existence. Fine NRA out of existence. Go after them for facilitating wrongful deaths, and seek monetary compensation for each and every death and injury that the state of affairs NRA has engineered has contributed to.
They have demonstrated their callous irresponsibility They clearly do NOT have the integrity or compassion to accept reasonable regulation for the safety of their countrymen, neighbors, friends or family members.
They are monomaniacs.
Leadership by monomaniacs ALWAYS leads to woe.
We die so they can enjoy shooting. And make money.
Why do we put up with NRA?
More...
Let me start out with a rhetorical question: NRA how stupid and callous can you be?
Apparently, quite stupid and quite callous.
The ad in question seeks to equate the security needs for the average child to the security needs for a child of, like it or not, the political leader of the free world.
Obviously, the Obama kids and family need more security than do average kids. I suppose that a terrorist might kidnap one of mine and demand that I release prisoners. However, since I have no authority to do that, the efficacy of the demand is pretty limited, and so our risk level is less than that endured by the Obamas, (or by the Bushs, the Clintons, the Fords, the Nixons, etc., etc., etc.).
Hence, the average person must be extremely unlucky to have their family embroiled in such a terrorist political incident.
However, the Obama children are logical targets because the average terrorist would see threatening the Obama kids, but much less so mine, as potentially politically efficacious.
But let us ignore the NRA's disingenuous ad for the moment.
I probably will never know someone personally who was touched by terrorism involving a close family member as victim.
That said, because of the lax gun laws and the NRA advocacy for same, it is a virtual certainty that that I will know or be related to a person murdered or gravely injured with a gun.
As, in fact, I already have/am.
One of my close relatives, was murdered with a gun.
Not by a stranger, though.
She was murdered by a family "friend"
NRA is complicit in all of the gun murders that happen in the US every year, including that of my relative.
How about establishing concretely the connection of the NRA leadership and their ilk to the extreme ease of murder using the deadly devices they have advocated for and to the high frequency of gun murder?
Sure looks like a strong and valid connection between NRA advocacy and tragedy.
Therefore, let us pursue wrongful death suits against NRA for each and every one gun murder.
NRA has had a hand in every gun tragedy that has occurred in the US.
Unregulated, widespread gun ownership is a public health crisis with huge body count, which NRA is greatly exacerbating.
In toto, it seems to me that that NRA actions are MUCH more likely to cause gun deaths than they are to prevent gun deaths.
One gets the sense that NRA would happily allow the murder of my children, your children, all the children in the world, rather than contemplate any regulation of the deadly implements they favor for their own pleasure and financial gain, no matter how reasonable those regulations are.
How selfish can they be?
My relative's family was not consoled in the least by the thought that, though their loved one was brutally murdered, at least gun fanciers had free access to guns.
Time to start actively ignoring NRA and opposing their nutty anti-citizen political agenda with extreme prejudice.
Whatever they advocate for will be bad for the American people. You can take that to the bank.
Therefore, tax NRA out of existence. Fine NRA out of existence. Go after them for facilitating wrongful deaths, and seek monetary compensation for each and every death and injury that the state of affairs NRA has engineered has contributed to.
They have demonstrated their callous irresponsibility They clearly do NOT have the integrity or compassion to accept reasonable regulation for the safety of their countrymen, neighbors, friends or family members.
They are monomaniacs.
Leadership by monomaniacs ALWAYS leads to woe.
We die so they can enjoy shooting. And make money.
Why do we put up with NRA?
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