Slog Comments
Obama Considering Proposal to Fund Universal Preschool for 4-Year-Olds
2
Oh my lord, the Republicans are gonna have a field day with the "free stuff / how-you-gonna-pay-for-it" angle. War? Fine. School? TOO EXPENSIVE.
4
Countdown until Fox News, Rick Santorum, and a host of others codemn this proposal as "liberal indoctrination of our children"...
5
4 is too young. It's just another parental outsourcing option. Better those additional two years at home and then start first grade. And the jury is still out on how effective it is anyway.
7
On the basis of having a 5-year-old, I would disagree that 4-years-old is too young for part-time pre-school. My two kids loved part-time Montessori.
9
@5 The jury is not still out on its efficacy. In fact, it's the only education reform repeatedly demonstrated work. Nothing does more to improve academic and life results than high quality early learning, and nothing does more to close the achievement gap.
So please stop lying.
So please stop lying.
10
@5, you're wrong. I actually did research on this for a college class. There have been studies indicating significant improvement in children who have had a preschool program vs. children who have not.
11
@5 "4 is too young. It's just another parental outsourcing option. Better those additional two years at home and then start first grade. And the jury is still out on how effective it is anyway."
Perhaps things are different where you live but a lot of babies go pretty much straight from the womb to daycare.
The utility of instruction at that age may be debatable, but I think the benefits of having more time spent being talked to and read to during early childhood development are pretty well substantiated.
Perhaps things are different where you live but a lot of babies go pretty much straight from the womb to daycare.
The utility of instruction at that age may be debatable, but I think the benefits of having more time spent being talked to and read to during early childhood development are pretty well substantiated.
12
@9: Perhaps, but there are more important things that what you enumerated. If I were to go into them, I'd be flamed as a concern troll again. Nevertheless, I appreciate your response Goldy.
14
@4 and @5 - Wow, Phoebe in Wallingford! Your neighborhood must be some amazing place where all families can afford to send one parent to work while the other stays at home. Yes, that would be great for kids, but it's not based in economic reality today.
15
@12 - It has a similar effect as preventative medicine on health outcomes later in life. Positive feedback loop of well adjusted citizens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HighScope
16
This should pretty much be mandatory for any society that expects most families to rely on two incomes. Though really, it should be open to even younger kids if they are ready for it. Our daughter started preschool at 3 1/2, going to a kind of crappy school for six months before switching to a good Montessori school for the next two years. From that experience I've learned that decent preschool is expensive even for most middle-income people.
While he's at it, throw in universal daycare for 1-3 year olds.
While he's at it, throw in universal daycare for 1-3 year olds.
17
When my daughter started kindergarten, she was reading at a 4th grade level and doing 2nd grade math. When we talked to the school about her advanced reading skills, the response was, "Don't worry, we'll have her with the other kids in no time." After she started school, she stopped wanting to do extracurricular work because A) it was above her "grade level", B) her teacher didn't want her to be advanced beyond everyone and C) none of the other kids had to.
Whether or not the kids love it, public education is nice, and provides some value in peer interaction, but it is no replacement for the time a parent can invest. I'd much rather see that $10 billion invested in college education subsidies. (Most parents are probably able to teach children basic skills, such as reading and writing, whereas most parents are probably not able to teach Calculus or college level writing skills.)
Whether or not the kids love it, public education is nice, and provides some value in peer interaction, but it is no replacement for the time a parent can invest. I'd much rather see that $10 billion invested in college education subsidies. (Most parents are probably able to teach children basic skills, such as reading and writing, whereas most parents are probably not able to teach Calculus or college level writing skills.)
18
As someone with no children of my own and no (current) intentions of having any, I'd be more than happy to see my taxes go to this obvious social good, rather than, say, unfunded wars or oil subsidies. Helluvah lot cheaper, too.
19
With a five year old now and a baby due in march, I'd be elated if this happened. We had pre-school covered for about six months last year and our daughters social, vocal and analytical skills went through the roof in an incredibly short period of time.
I can personally vouch, although not through any academic way, for the benefits of early childhood education. As it is now, my wife and I are trying everything to be able to put our next one in some ECE program.
I can personally vouch, although not through any academic way, for the benefits of early childhood education. As it is now, my wife and I are trying everything to be able to put our next one in some ECE program.
20
Actually Phoebe @5 and the AssHoles (@9,10,11,14,etc) are both right.
In Real American families that actually parent their children those years are much better spent with a parent at home.
In the HomoLiberal Child Hating Qunited States of Gammorica those same children are much better off at school than they would be at home, or parked in daycare.
So it makes perfect sense that Baby Daddy Barack would offer FREE preschool to the tens of millions of unmarried Hoochie HoMama women who make up his base.....
Moral of the story: If HomoLiberal HoMamas are not going to slaughter their babies (the merciful thing to do...) they best send them off to school as soon as possible.
In Real American families that actually parent their children those years are much better spent with a parent at home.
In the HomoLiberal Child Hating Qunited States of Gammorica those same children are much better off at school than they would be at home, or parked in daycare.
So it makes perfect sense that Baby Daddy Barack would offer FREE preschool to the tens of millions of unmarried Hoochie HoMama women who make up his base.....
Moral of the story: If HomoLiberal HoMamas are not going to slaughter their babies (the merciful thing to do...) they best send them off to school as soon as possible.
22
Listen to an account of how Oklahoma (!) has already gotten away with it. Act Four of this episode of TAL.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-ar…
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-ar…
23
Oh Phoebe, you wouldn't be "flamed for being a concern troll".
You would be flamed, and quite rightly so, for being so dense as to spout your ill-informed wrong opinions on Slog. Yet again.
Even after folks have (politely) pointed out links to fact-based and peer-reviewed studies that prove the opposite of what you assert.
You would be flamed, and quite rightly so, for being so dense as to spout your ill-informed wrong opinions on Slog. Yet again.
Even after folks have (politely) pointed out links to fact-based and peer-reviewed studies that prove the opposite of what you assert.
24
@21
Not really. School tends to pound everyone down to the same level. It makes the teachers' jobs easier, and we all know teachers are the number one top martyrs anywhere. Anything to make their jobs easier. And no bragging! Everyone be the same, or at least learn to act like you are.
Not really. School tends to pound everyone down to the same level. It makes the teachers' jobs easier, and we all know teachers are the number one top martyrs anywhere. Anything to make their jobs easier. And no bragging! Everyone be the same, or at least learn to act like you are.
26
@21
You'd be surprised.
(Most parents are probably able to teach children basic skills, such as reading and writing, whereas most parents are probably not able to teach Calculus or college level writing skills.)
You'd be surprised.
27
@23: Peer-reviewed studies provide important information to consider, but that is just one factor. Every situation is different, and I don't begrudge other's choices. I admit fully, I'm a relic from the old days and economic times dictate choices.
The sad part, to me anyway, is is that you're not seeing those years at home until 6 as precious as they are, and are willing to so freely subjugate the last 2 for what you see as the greater good as you see it. We can only agree to disagree on this one, there is no one size fits all.
The sad part, to me anyway, is is that you're not seeing those years at home until 6 as precious as they are, and are willing to so freely subjugate the last 2 for what you see as the greater good as you see it. We can only agree to disagree on this one, there is no one size fits all.
28
A scary large percentage of babies are being born to single parents. I think giving all parents to pre-school their kids might bring down this percentage.
29
With out parental involvement, SERIOUS parental involvement, these poor and lower income children will not really benefit as what is built up at age 4 will be torn down at age 9. The parent(s) are THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT factor in a child's education, not money nor the government.
30
Yeah yeah the parents are very important. But the evidence shows that preschool has dramatic long-term benefits for poor kids. Throw all the unsubtantiated opinions and irrelevant anecdotes you all want at it, but facts is facts.
For good measure: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-ar…
For good measure: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-ar…
31
30
Poor kids, maybe.
Getting them out of their dysfunctional homes is advantageous to them.
But taking children from functional homes where they receive parental care and attention from competent loving parents (admittedly, rarer and rarer in the Qunited States of Gammorica...) sets those children back.
Your studies won't tell you that because your Liberal researchers are not looking to prove that and design their studies accordingly.
Surely you are aware how social "science" research (aka HomoLiberal Advocacy) works.....
Poor kids, maybe.
Getting them out of their dysfunctional homes is advantageous to them.
But taking children from functional homes where they receive parental care and attention from competent loving parents (admittedly, rarer and rarer in the Qunited States of Gammorica...) sets those children back.
Your studies won't tell you that because your Liberal researchers are not looking to prove that and design their studies accordingly.
Surely you are aware how social "science" research (aka HomoLiberal Advocacy) works.....
32
@27 It's not mandatory preschool. It's universal access to affordable, high quality preschool. Parents are free to opt out, but as Oklahoma has demonstrated (yes, Oklahoma funds universal preschool) most won't.
34
Given that parents are free to opt out and that the benefits are indisputable, it's naughty to not support this. It would help a lot of kids.
35
Just to chime in from a Canadian perspective..... in Ontario, we start Kindergarten at age 4 (or, in my case, 3, but my birthday's in October). It was a half day for us. I'm not sure what it is now. It was mostly playing, drawing, and learning to share, from what I remember.
I started French immersion in the second year of Kindergarten - my first year had been English, but Sesame Street made me think that learning another language would be cool.
I had no idea that the US didn't have two years of Kindergarten.
I started French immersion in the second year of Kindergarten - my first year had been English, but Sesame Street made me think that learning another language would be cool.
I had no idea that the US didn't have two years of Kindergarten.
36
@ 35, judging from your description, your first year of kindergarten (at age four) is the same thing our four year olds get in preschool or ECE (early childhood education). Kindergarten (for five year olds) is a bit more structured, with actual lessons and a lot less in-classroom playing, because kids are five and better able to begin focusing and sitting still at desks. Not entirely, which is why it isn't "first grade," but it's a progression.
Typically, American kids have two years of preschool available to them, beginning at age 3. Depending on the district, it may or may not be offered through the public schools; there are always preschools with no affiliation to a school district, or to a private or parochial school. But it's completely voluntary, and parents usually have to pay tuition, even if it's at public school.
Typically, American kids have two years of preschool available to them, beginning at age 3. Depending on the district, it may or may not be offered through the public schools; there are always preschools with no affiliation to a school district, or to a private or parochial school. But it's completely voluntary, and parents usually have to pay tuition, even if it's at public school.
39
@37, True. Although we live in an extremely rural community now. I never knew that Band (marching bands) was such a big thing.
40
Pre-school for 4 years olds? That used to be the age they put kids in kindergarten! Universal day care for anyone who needs it up to 2 years old and pre-k for ages 2+. Four and five year olds can do all day kindergarten depending on readiness. A little bit of learning, a little bit of story time, and half the day running around in the fresh air playing games.
41
" the parents are very important. But the evidence shows that preschool has dramatic long-term benefits for poor kids"
Exactly. The less time po' kids spend around their mamas the better.
Exactly. The less time po' kids spend around their mamas the better.
42
@ 40, what you describe is called preschool in America. What we call Kindergarten is more structured, which is why it's reserved for five year olds.
I've never heard of Kindergarten for kids younger than five, personally. Many, many decades ago, when I was four, I went to preschool, and then Kindergarten when I was five.
I've never heard of Kindergarten for kids younger than five, personally. Many, many decades ago, when I was four, I went to preschool, and then Kindergarten when I was five.
43
L?NO NO NO! 4 year olds are in their most formative years they need to be with a parent picking up language and morals!!! Omg please no!
45
Who named this initiative, Napoleon the pig? Calling this proposal "universal" is just an outright lie, and Goldy's "yeah, I know" doesn't gild that lily.
Also pretty hilarious timing coming after this month's HHS report on the inefficacy of Head Start:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports…
Also pretty hilarious timing coming after this month's HHS report on the inefficacy of Head Start:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports…
46
" 4 year olds are in their most formative years they need to be with a parent picking up language and morals!!!"
So they can learn how to cuss, smoke weed, watch TV, do nothing all day but sleep around and have multiple babies with multiple daddies? Better they be taken by the state 8 hrs a day.
So they can learn how to cuss, smoke weed, watch TV, do nothing all day but sleep around and have multiple babies with multiple daddies? Better they be taken by the state 8 hrs a day.
Comments (46) RSS