Slog Comments
The Seattle Times Makes the Case for Denying Middle-Class Children Access to an Affordable College Education
1
Because people should be taking financial advice from the ongoing fiscal mismangement fuckups at The Seattle Slimes. Pffft. Why won't they just go bankrupt already???
4
Anyone who is willing to pay $17,200 for one year's tuition at a public university needs to have his head examined. At such a university, only 5-10% of the money you are paying actually goes towards undergraduate education (i.e. professors' salaries, building and maintenance costs, administration costs, and so on). The other 90% or so goes directly towards subsidizing the rest of the university's programs and activities.
On the other hand, Universities such as SUNY and CSU are a good deal.
Go to junior college and transfer, people.
On the other hand, Universities such as SUNY and CSU are a good deal.
Go to junior college and transfer, people.
5
@2 You're such an ignorant fucker. As Goldy pointed out, participants in the GET program pay money -- cold hard cash -- into the system in exchange for a return in the form of tuition. No bailout involved.
6
Next week: AAPL investor, Goldensteinenberg, defends Apple's labor abuses as long as it lines his shareholder pockets.
7
"in exchange for a return in the form of tuition."
Yes, but this no longer looks like he simply wants a 'return', now he's demanding vigorish from taxpayers.
Yes, but this no longer looks like he simply wants a 'return', now he's demanding vigorish from taxpayers.
8
And at an annualized return of 8.4 percent over the 15-year life of program, it's still considerably less than historical stock market returns.
Bullshit. The historical average return on stocks is 9.2%, but that's not tax affected. GET is a bonanza, and everyone knows it. The state can't afford it, unless we raise taxes. Which we are not going to do.
Bullshit. The historical average return on stocks is 9.2%, but that's not tax affected. GET is a bonanza, and everyone knows it. The state can't afford it, unless we raise taxes. Which we are not going to do.
9
If the state were operating according to free market interests, it would only take out of state and foreign students who see tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars as no object when sending their kids to the US to "see the world" and between drinks, get an education.
As such, you taxaous types should welcome unfettered fees for tuition as it would bring much more capital back to Washington State and pay the high salaries of employees.
At the same time Universities could offer far more scholarships, internships with free tuition riding on the coattails of EuroPartiers and Oil rich jet set brats for those who qualify academically. For the rest of people, they'd be happier getting a high wage job up at Boeing Renton, sticking luggage racks on the 737. Like in the old days.
As such, you taxaous types should welcome unfettered fees for tuition as it would bring much more capital back to Washington State and pay the high salaries of employees.
At the same time Universities could offer far more scholarships, internships with free tuition riding on the coattails of EuroPartiers and Oil rich jet set brats for those who qualify academically. For the rest of people, they'd be happier getting a high wage job up at Boeing Renton, sticking luggage racks on the 737. Like in the old days.
10
p.s.: Maybe a GET program for Western Governors University, which is all-online, accredited, and costs about one-quarter (maybe even less?) what the brick-and-mortar schools do. But wait: It's really not about education, is it, "progressives?"
11
Seems like a dumbass idea to buy an education where your kid might not even want to go. If your kid wants to go to Stanford or UMass, those GET dollars are just gone. I've seen many kids, even poor kids, go through the college admissions process. Most would move heaven and earth to go to their "dream college", debt be damned. Kids are 17 and have been fed the marketing for years.
12
@wxPDX, you are misinformed or just lazy. From the GET website FAQ: You can use your GET units at nearly any public or private college, university or technical school in the United States and at selected colleges in other countries. Your GET units may not be enough to cover the full cost of tuition and fees at private or out-of-state colleges. If your school costs more than University of Washington or Washington State University, you pay the difference. If it costs less, you can also use GET units to pay other higher education costs such as room and board, books, etc.
13
@8 Gee, I hadn't realized 8.4 percent wasn't less than 9.2 percent. Though I dispute your numbers. The average annual S&P 500 return since its inception is 11.69 percent. And that includes the previous atypically crappy decade (due to the financial collapse).
Back in 2002, when we bought into GET, financial advisors warned that it's projected 6.5 percent return was too conservative. And it would have been, had the state not abdicated on its responsibility to fully fund our state university system.
Back in 2002, when we bought into GET, financial advisors warned that it's projected 6.5 percent return was too conservative. And it would have been, had the state not abdicated on its responsibility to fully fund our state university system.
14
It is my sincere hope to someday be intubated by a nurse with a degree from Western Governors Univ. whose "In-Hospital Clinical Experience" consists of "mandatory attendance to high fidelity Clinical Simulation Learning Labs".......NOT
15
The GET party is already over, Goldy. You said it yourself ... $172 for $117.82 worth of tuition. That's a 45% mark-up, or a 5-6 year delay before realizing even a penny of the 8.4% average return you cited. It is no longer a good deal.
16
@15 Hold the line on tuition for a few years, and those premiums will come down. Then GET can go back to what it was intended to be: A safe, secure financial instrument for planning ahead for your children's education.
(Or, instead of paying out $1.7 billion over the next couple decades to close GET, the state could put a portion of that into GET to shore up its finances. )
(Or, instead of paying out $1.7 billion over the next couple decades to close GET, the state could put a portion of that into GET to shore up its finances. )
17
Most comments seem to forget that the state university system was designed to provide local higher education in order to make American students equally competitive in a world market. American graduates were to be the equal of every other major nation. I challenge anyone to find a charter which lists a primary goal of luring foreign students in order to make a profit.. State schools should benefit the residents of the state first.
18
Lower tuition is the best form of financial aid, period. Even if low-income students, like myself, are able to have their education funded, the prospect of debt, or the inability to pay, are a deterrent to achieving a college education, especially for first-generation and students of color. Every piece of paper is an obstacle.
Lower tuition helps everybody, and this article pinpoints the structural problem. It's only because the legislature hasn't committed to specifically funding affordability in higher education (we can talk about new programs, which are good, but need to be paired with affordability measures) that GET is even a problem.
I do have a smaller correction, though. The State Need Grant currently doesn't fund 33,000 eligible students, not 22,000. It's much worse than the number in this article, and when you add cuts to work study, the picture just darkens.
http://www.leapwa.org/Downloads/SNG%EF%8…
Lower tuition helps everybody, and this article pinpoints the structural problem. It's only because the legislature hasn't committed to specifically funding affordability in higher education (we can talk about new programs, which are good, but need to be paired with affordability measures) that GET is even a problem.
I do have a smaller correction, though. The State Need Grant currently doesn't fund 33,000 eligible students, not 22,000. It's much worse than the number in this article, and when you add cuts to work study, the picture just darkens.
http://www.leapwa.org/Downloads/SNG%EF%8…
21
Don't fuck with the numbers, you slimy piece of shit. I actually was generous when I wrote 9.2%. The rule of thumb taught in business schools is 8%, but more recent experience is higher. There are reasons for that, none of which you would like. (Hint: Look at the change in average R.O.E. in the past 40 years, and ask yourself exactly how that happened.)
In any case, if you don't apply taxes to stock returns you're lying. Of course, you're a "progressive" so lying isn't a problem. But for everyone else, when Goldy compares the untaxed inside buildup of the state guaranteed GET program to inherently risky equity returns, he's pumping bullshit out of every orifice.
In any case, if you don't apply taxes to stock returns you're lying. Of course, you're a "progressive" so lying isn't a problem. But for everyone else, when Goldy compares the untaxed inside buildup of the state guaranteed GET program to inherently risky equity returns, he's pumping bullshit out of every orifice.
23
Goldy, you are 100% correct to rail on this. The failure of this state to invest in the education of its residents (at all levels) will be our everlasting shame. When the Seattle Times concedes that its own special tax exemption loophole is repulsive and utterly unjustified, then they can start preaching to the rest of us about how to spend tax revenues. But until then, they should just shut the fuck up already.
24
@11
I've been teaching in a high school for 24 years. Every year I see students either apply to their dream schools ad not get in, or they do get in, but even with financial aid, they realize they can't afford to go. When they realize it is a choice between Dream University with six figures in student loans at the end of four years, or State University with much, much less, many of them go to State. Yes, we do have alumns who have gone to Stanford or Harvard or Yale or Tulane. But for every one who attends, we have at least one who decided to go to State so they could wait to incur debt until grad school.
I've been teaching in a high school for 24 years. Every year I see students either apply to their dream schools ad not get in, or they do get in, but even with financial aid, they realize they can't afford to go. When they realize it is a choice between Dream University with six figures in student loans at the end of four years, or State University with much, much less, many of them go to State. Yes, we do have alumns who have gone to Stanford or Harvard or Yale or Tulane. But for every one who attends, we have at least one who decided to go to State so they could wait to incur debt until grad school.
25
We bought GET credits about ten years ago, too. Everyone said it was a bad investment, that we should invest in a 529, that 'we can borrow for school but not for retirement,' etc...
GET was always an insurance plan.
Goldy is spot-on on this issue. I only wish he could sum up his points in under 200 words.
Rodney Tom can suck my crank.
GET was always an insurance plan.
Goldy is spot-on on this issue. I only wish he could sum up his points in under 200 words.
Rodney Tom can suck my crank.
26
GET is a subsidy for the upper middle class, which is what Seattle "progressives" are all about. Tax the working stiffs, and send the money upward. Same with the buses, which are subsidized for the well-off, and the various rail schemes. In the end, Seattle's "progressives" are no different than Bellevue's Republicans.
27
@26 A) I'm not "upper middle class." I earn less than the median wage. B) GET is not a subsidy. It has never cost taxpayers a dime. And absent perpetual double-digit tuition hikes, if left alone, it will never cost taxpayers a dime. Zero subsidy.
28
The hell it's not a subsidy. The reason the closing GET would require a state outlay is because there wouldn't be new money coming in to pay off the prior investors. The only difference between GET and a classic Ponzi scheme is that the state's taxpayers are on the hook.
If this were a private plan, the GET people would be sitting next to Bernie Madoff. A financially sound plan would be backed by a sinking fund. This one isn't. Face it, Goldy, you're just another piglet at the trough.
If this were a private plan, the GET people would be sitting next to Bernie Madoff. A financially sound plan would be backed by a sinking fund. This one isn't. Face it, Goldy, you're just another piglet at the trough.
Comments (28) RSS