Slog Comments
SL Letter of the Day: Gay Slaves, Power Bottoms, and Bonus Advice
1
Glad his friends came to their senses. I've been a dominate bottom on many occasions, and Dan is spot on, as usual. It's all the dynamics of two personalities- it has very little to do with plumbing.
2
I have a good friend who is a transperson. She used to disclose on her online dating profile that she is trans. However, more than one of the people that she met this way ended up being abusive, emotionally or physically. While I appreciate Buck Angel's advice, I'm not sure that it's always safe to disclose so publicly.
3
Yes, Masters get fucked (and fisted).
Masters in fact train their subs to fuck and fist them in exactly the way that they like, sometimes without regard to the subs pleasure at all (although I'd argue in a healthy BDSM relationship, the sub was getting his satisfaction out of serving).
Masters in fact train their subs to fuck and fist them in exactly the way that they like, sometimes without regard to the subs pleasure at all (although I'd argue in a healthy BDSM relationship, the sub was getting his satisfaction out of serving).
5
I appreciate the chat and respect Mr Angel's opinion, though it would have been nice had he been able to address the question of the difference between dating someone open to dating a trans man and someone looking to date a trans man. Perhaps because I'm the sort of person who wouldn't feel entitled to much in the way of dealbreakers, I'd be in the open camp if I were still dating, but being on such a site as his would seem like being a chaser. I don't know that I'd be a good match for someone who wanted to date people who took his being trans as a plus.
6
Buck's cool. Given the past discussions of straight guys attracted to transwomen, the fact that Buck, a transman, gets interest from a lot of gay men was interesting to hear.
7
If a guy can't take it up the ass like a hero, he'll have a tough time convincing me he's "Master".
8
Ya, thanks Dan!
I do wonder about straight trans women though...especially because a lot of guys who are into women like this are all about the contradiction of attractive woman with a cock as a fetish or fantasy lay. Or at least that's my main impression. Maybe they would be into a serious, long term relationships but my main thought is that most trans women are not planning on staying that way or have already had the surgery?
And if you're post-op or planning to be...I would still think disclosure is essential but isn't the "trans" part as attraction rather diminished as merely a footnote for this woman? So how to come out right away on more conventional dating websites where "LGBT" isn't often part of the conversation?
I guess the question is would a post-op (or planning to be) woman find much of an audience on a trans dating site? I suppose there would at least be men with open minds...curious/open straight or bi guys where genitals are less of a priority one way or the other...
I do wonder about straight trans women though...especially because a lot of guys who are into women like this are all about the contradiction of attractive woman with a cock as a fetish or fantasy lay. Or at least that's my main impression. Maybe they would be into a serious, long term relationships but my main thought is that most trans women are not planning on staying that way or have already had the surgery?
And if you're post-op or planning to be...I would still think disclosure is essential but isn't the "trans" part as attraction rather diminished as merely a footnote for this woman? So how to come out right away on more conventional dating websites where "LGBT" isn't often part of the conversation?
I guess the question is would a post-op (or planning to be) woman find much of an audience on a trans dating site? I suppose there would at least be men with open minds...curious/open straight or bi guys where genitals are less of a priority one way or the other...
9
@5 ya...I wonder about the "open to" vs "preference for". It might be fun to get attention for this aspect of yourself that is more often a secret or something to worry about...but it can't be the whole basis for why someone wants to be with you, right?
Maybe it doesn't matter...if any potential relationship is good, it's good... regardless of how or why people find each other. And we all start with those initial "shallow" preferences when looking for a partner.
Maybe it doesn't matter...if any potential relationship is good, it's good... regardless of how or why people find each other. And we all start with those initial "shallow" preferences when looking for a partner.
10
Yeah, everyone gets to make their own rules and write their own definitions. We know that. Now let's look at what people really want down in their sexual rat brain where politics and politeness are the ultimate soft-ons.
Down in the unmentionable place, a "Sub" wants to get fucked by a "Dom" who's on top. When that "Dom" decides to order the "Sub" to do the fucking, the "Sub" is going to be pissed. He's going to feel defrauded for the umpteenth time.
In that very incorrect rat brain, Dom=Top=Penetrate, and Sub=Bottom=Be Penetrated. Yeah, yeah, point out all the exceptions. Which are usually soft-ons and compromises and self-deception and disappointment.
Doms, if you're getting older and have erectile dysfunction, do what I did: Look at it as an engineering issue and get testosterone, Viagra, Cialis, or the like. But don't play the I'm going to be your master and order you to fuck me game. It's a dodge, and you know it. So (especially) does he. Call yourself "versatile" and be done with it.
I'm the mythical gay Dom 100% top. Trust me, this is well received, pardon the pun. I can't tell you how many Subs say to me, "It's about damn time."
But really, everyone gets to make their own rules and write their own definitions. But if you want to satisfy someone, and your own self, pay attention to the very incorrect shit that goes down in that rat brain. No one ever argued themselves into a hardon, trust me on that.
Down in the unmentionable place, a "Sub" wants to get fucked by a "Dom" who's on top. When that "Dom" decides to order the "Sub" to do the fucking, the "Sub" is going to be pissed. He's going to feel defrauded for the umpteenth time.
In that very incorrect rat brain, Dom=Top=Penetrate, and Sub=Bottom=Be Penetrated. Yeah, yeah, point out all the exceptions. Which are usually soft-ons and compromises and self-deception and disappointment.
Doms, if you're getting older and have erectile dysfunction, do what I did: Look at it as an engineering issue and get testosterone, Viagra, Cialis, or the like. But don't play the I'm going to be your master and order you to fuck me game. It's a dodge, and you know it. So (especially) does he. Call yourself "versatile" and be done with it.
I'm the mythical gay Dom 100% top. Trust me, this is well received, pardon the pun. I can't tell you how many Subs say to me, "It's about damn time."
But really, everyone gets to make their own rules and write their own definitions. But if you want to satisfy someone, and your own self, pay attention to the very incorrect shit that goes down in that rat brain. No one ever argued themselves into a hardon, trust me on that.
11
@6 &@8- For gay men, it's about MEN, and FTM transmen are usually very manly MEN, regardless of the plumbing. Which reinforces Dan's take on straight men liking WOMEN with dicks, and gay dudes liking MEN, even those with a vagina.
Buck Angel is nothing, if not all man.....swoon. I'd love to play with him. But he's a gay man with little interest in dating women. He wants men who want his plumbing, not women and not men who 'are open to' dating a trans man. He's proud of his body, with all its parts, and it seems to me that all FTMen would do well to emulate him, regardless whether they're into men or women.
Buck Angel is nothing, if not all man.....swoon. I'd love to play with him. But he's a gay man with little interest in dating women. He wants men who want his plumbing, not women and not men who 'are open to' dating a trans man. He's proud of his body, with all its parts, and it seems to me that all FTMen would do well to emulate him, regardless whether they're into men or women.
12
"And nowadays plenty of Mistress's have cocks of their own..."
.
Oh for fuck sake, would you PLEASE fucking learn how to fucking use apostrophes? It's "Mistresses", not "Mistress's"
.
Oh for fuck sake, would you PLEASE fucking learn how to fucking use apostrophes? It's "Mistresses", not "Mistress's"
13
My wife is a top. More a sadist than a domme, but I'm not going to split hairs on this one. Because lots of S&Mers like to say that taking it up the butt is an inherently submissive act.
That's only because they haven't seen my wife taking it up the butt. There is very little control on my part about what happens. She is totally in control of the situation. She is getting *exactly* what she wants at any given moment in time, and she has a way of making that expressly clear without having to so much as utter a word.
When *she's* stuffing *her* cock up *my* ass on the other hand, there's plenty of words exchanged. ;)
That's only because they haven't seen my wife taking it up the butt. There is very little control on my part about what happens. She is totally in control of the situation. She is getting *exactly* what she wants at any given moment in time, and she has a way of making that expressly clear without having to so much as utter a word.
When *she's* stuffing *her* cock up *my* ass on the other hand, there's plenty of words exchanged. ;)
14
11: Transmen are men regardless of what genitalia they have; I have no hesitation about that. However. Dan says that "there are gay men out there" for whom the lack of a penis/presence of a vagina is a deal breaker. I would say that was MOST gay men, just as most straight men aren't interested in women who have penises.
15
Dan, Dan, Dan. This is so unlike you of the pristine spelling and grammar! To wit:
- The plural of Mistress is Mistresses, not Mistress's.
- "Afterwords"? You were looking for "afterwards". (Afterwards can be used instead of afterward as long as it's being used as an adverb, and relating to time, both of which were true in your sentence.)
I guess we all have brain fart days. The content was top-notch though!
- The plural of Mistress is Mistresses, not Mistress's.
- "Afterwords"? You were looking for "afterwards". (Afterwards can be used instead of afterward as long as it's being used as an adverb, and relating to time, both of which were true in your sentence.)
I guess we all have brain fart days. The content was top-notch though!
16
Anyone who thinks a bottom can't be the dominant one in the encounter needs to get out more.
After all, the role of the submissive is to service the needs of the dominant. If the dominant one wants to get his ass fucked, but he isn't getting what he wants because it doesn't fit some stereotype of what the dominant should want, then he really isn't dominant at all.
You can't call yourself the master or dom if you aren't getting what you want from your submissive / slave. The slave services you, in what ever way you want, and so long as they do what you want, the way you want it, then you are the one in charge.
And to touch on what Seandr said @7, anyone can be a top. It takes a real man to take a good ass pounding and come back for more, dom or sub.
After all, the role of the submissive is to service the needs of the dominant. If the dominant one wants to get his ass fucked, but he isn't getting what he wants because it doesn't fit some stereotype of what the dominant should want, then he really isn't dominant at all.
You can't call yourself the master or dom if you aren't getting what you want from your submissive / slave. The slave services you, in what ever way you want, and so long as they do what you want, the way you want it, then you are the one in charge.
And to touch on what Seandr said @7, anyone can be a top. It takes a real man to take a good ass pounding and come back for more, dom or sub.
17
@10, do you not see how much of your post is about trying to please those demanding subs?
> a "Sub" wants to get fucked by a "Dom"
> [if the] "Dom" orders the "Sub" to do the fucking, the "Sub" is going to be pissed.
> He's going to feel defrauded
> It's a dodge, and you know it. So (especially) does he.
> I can't tell you how many Subs say to me, "It's about damn time."
> if you want to satisfy someone
In some D/s relationships, as shown above, the sub is really in charge, and everything follows the fantasy script. The dom wears a costume, utters phrases the sub wants to hear, and fucks the way the sub wants. If that's your kink - excellent. Have fun.
In other D/s relationships, the doms seek to please themselves, first and foremost. Their subs get off knowing that the dom is taking what the dom wants, and not posturing, pretending to be some big Fantasy Dom who just happens to want to fulfill the sub's own turn-ons. And those relationships -- where the dom's desires are put first -- are just as real as the other kind.
> a "Sub" wants to get fucked by a "Dom"
> [if the] "Dom" orders the "Sub" to do the fucking, the "Sub" is going to be pissed.
> He's going to feel defrauded
> It's a dodge, and you know it. So (especially) does he.
> I can't tell you how many Subs say to me, "It's about damn time."
> if you want to satisfy someone
In some D/s relationships, as shown above, the sub is really in charge, and everything follows the fantasy script. The dom wears a costume, utters phrases the sub wants to hear, and fucks the way the sub wants. If that's your kink - excellent. Have fun.
In other D/s relationships, the doms seek to please themselves, first and foremost. Their subs get off knowing that the dom is taking what the dom wants, and not posturing, pretending to be some big Fantasy Dom who just happens to want to fulfill the sub's own turn-ons. And those relationships -- where the dom's desires are put first -- are just as real as the other kind.
18
@9 words of wisdom:
> we all start with those initial "shallow" preferences when looking for a partner.
> we all start with those initial "shallow" preferences when looking for a partner.
19
@14 right on. Most gay men probably aren't into transmen, even though transmen are men.
Having, um, encountered a wide variety of bodies cis-gendered and non-cisgendered, for a range of sexes and identities -- for better or worse, cisgendered bodies on the outside are a bit different from transbodies on the outside, especially genitalia -- for MTF taste & function is a bit different; for FTM taste, function, & appearance is a bit different. It's just a fact of life given the state of technology & surgery in 2013.
Having, um, encountered a wide variety of bodies cis-gendered and non-cisgendered, for a range of sexes and identities -- for better or worse, cisgendered bodies on the outside are a bit different from transbodies on the outside, especially genitalia -- for MTF taste & function is a bit different; for FTM taste, function, & appearance is a bit different. It's just a fact of life given the state of technology & surgery in 2013.
20
@17 Well said EricaP, you make a good distinction between these two types of D/s dynamics (among the many that are out there).
I found @10 comment quite amusing, stating at first how "everyone gets to make their own rules and write their own definitions." and then making statements about how what subs really want and how it should all go down and therefore contradicting your very first statement.
I found @10 comment quite amusing, stating at first how "everyone gets to make their own rules and write their own definitions." and then making statements about how what subs really want and how it should all go down and therefore contradicting your very first statement.
21
@9 / @18 ya. Nothing wrong with "open to" vs. "preference for" it's just life. Be up front in online profiles on cis-gendered dating sites, it's as much a part of one's outward self as height, weight, age, all of which are in the front page on dating profiles.
Caveat -- online dating eliminates the chances "clicking" with someone who isn't one's usual cup of tea, so since transman is into other men, he should also try in-person gay speed dating.
While I think he should be upfront in his online profile, I don't see the need for him to reveal on a 5 min. speed date that he's a transman, because in speed dating it's all about whether you click or not in person. But he should come in the first full length date, if it looks like it's going someplace, as it's a reasonably salient thing to know early on, kind of like if you're a single parent and have a kid at home.
Caveat -- online dating eliminates the chances "clicking" with someone who isn't one's usual cup of tea, so since transman is into other men, he should also try in-person gay speed dating.
While I think he should be upfront in his online profile, I don't see the need for him to reveal on a 5 min. speed date that he's a transman, because in speed dating it's all about whether you click or not in person. But he should come in the first full length date, if it looks like it's going someplace, as it's a reasonably salient thing to know early on, kind of like if you're a single parent and have a kid at home.
22
This brings me to another topic: how there are multiple definitions to the labels we use (and many other words for that matter - see translation of french word "baiser"). When we use words to describe ourselves it's not always good enough to just say that, for example, you are a poly bisexual crossdressing dom as there are multiple definitions to each of those terms. You also have to state what these words mean to you if you want someone to better understand you. It makes life more difficult but it also avoids the flawed thinking of "Dom=Top=Penetrate, and Sub=Bottom=Be Penetrated", since not everyone uses that definition.
23
@22, yes, and getting to know what someone means when they say they like to submit, or they are poly, or they like gaming, or they're progressive, or they have a crazy ex-wife... that gives you something to talk about during dates.
24
@10: It seems to me that a sub who would happily do dishes for his Master but would feel betrayed by Master ordering him to use his dick to pleasure Master is the one who is a fraud. Anyone who is telling their partner "That's not how Doms work!" is trying to control how the Dom operates, which means that fundamentally, _he_ is the one who isn't truly what he says he is (namely, a sub), not the other way around.
Also, where do you make the leap of logic that the only reason a Dom would want to be on the receiving end is because he can't get it up? That might have been your personal experience with whatever person you are basing your rant on, but as either a general principle or a logical conclusion it is totally unsupported.
Also, where do you make the leap of logic that the only reason a Dom would want to be on the receiving end is because he can't get it up? That might have been your personal experience with whatever person you are basing your rant on, but as either a general principle or a logical conclusion it is totally unsupported.
25
@21 You're right (about dating online) and I suppose the most important thing is to do and try different things...increase odds/exposure. As opposed to, say...watching internet porn and then crying into the furry belly of your cat night after night...*cough*artbasketsara *cough* ;)
I haven't seen it mentioned a lot but those meetup groups (www.meetup.com) are a pretty good idea...A good way to meet new people with common interests in a generally safe and controllable situation...and little commitment to go to any event that you don't want to or don't feel comfortable with.
I haven't seen it mentioned a lot but those meetup groups (www.meetup.com) are a pretty good idea...A good way to meet new people with common interests in a generally safe and controllable situation...and little commitment to go to any event that you don't want to or don't feel comfortable with.
26
#17, who ever said that a Sub isn't supposed to have his needs met? Look, until we re-institute slavery for real (impossible in a culture defined by "inalienable rights" and "all men are created equal"), the Dom-Sub dynamic will always be a matter of voluntary servitude. No one will continue in such a role involuntarily, least of all someone who's bought into BDSM and sought out what he wants.
So the idea that a Dom is the only one who gets "pleased," well, that might be your idea but it's not mine. Like I said before, anyone gets to write their own rules and call themselves anything they want to call themselves. All I tried to say was that, in my experience, down deep where none of these words matter, it's usually "Dom=Top=Penetrate" and "Sub=Bottom=Get Penetrated."
Gay Subs are always looking for the elusive "real" Dom, which almost always means someone who'll fuck them and never want to be fucked. It just so happens that my rat brain wants to fuck and never get fucked. It works for me, and for the Subs I see out there. I get A LOT of feedback about this along the lines of, "Finally, a dominant top."
I'm not telling you I'm right and everyone else is wrong. It probably sounds like I am, but I'm trying to say what I think most Subs are actually looking for. It's real simple: "Stick it in my mouth. Stick it up my ass. Don't touch my dick. Better yet, don't even look at it. And please, sir, please don't suck my dick or tell me to stick it up your ass, because I'm not going to be able to get stiff for that."
I've got more than a little experience at this, and I think this is the way most Subs are wired. I want 'em to like it. I want 'em to like it so much, in fact, that they fuckin' beg for more of it. And you wanna know what? That's what they do.
#20, if someone else wants to make different rules and call themselves whatever, I don't care. I'm only offering this view. If it amuses you, great. If you're finding enough people to do it your way, you've got my congratulations.
More...
So the idea that a Dom is the only one who gets "pleased," well, that might be your idea but it's not mine. Like I said before, anyone gets to write their own rules and call themselves anything they want to call themselves. All I tried to say was that, in my experience, down deep where none of these words matter, it's usually "Dom=Top=Penetrate" and "Sub=Bottom=Get Penetrated."
Gay Subs are always looking for the elusive "real" Dom, which almost always means someone who'll fuck them and never want to be fucked. It just so happens that my rat brain wants to fuck and never get fucked. It works for me, and for the Subs I see out there. I get A LOT of feedback about this along the lines of, "Finally, a dominant top."
I'm not telling you I'm right and everyone else is wrong. It probably sounds like I am, but I'm trying to say what I think most Subs are actually looking for. It's real simple: "Stick it in my mouth. Stick it up my ass. Don't touch my dick. Better yet, don't even look at it. And please, sir, please don't suck my dick or tell me to stick it up your ass, because I'm not going to be able to get stiff for that."
I've got more than a little experience at this, and I think this is the way most Subs are wired. I want 'em to like it. I want 'em to like it so much, in fact, that they fuckin' beg for more of it. And you wanna know what? That's what they do.
#20, if someone else wants to make different rules and call themselves whatever, I don't care. I'm only offering this view. If it amuses you, great. If you're finding enough people to do it your way, you've got my congratulations.
27
#24, I didn't say that not being able to get it up is "the only reason a Dom would want to be on the receiving end." But it's a very, very common reason. And I'm not "ranting." I'm giving my viewpoint, that's all. If people are getting laid and having fun and satisfaction in some other way, I am 1,000% for it.
28
Now that I've pissed off some of you, maybe I can piss off all of you. To me, anything "trans" is a soft-on. Now, after having spent a good chunk of my adolescence trying to convince myself to get stiff for women and finding my dick totally uncooperative in the effort, I decided I'd play to my strengths, so to speak, and go get what I wanted. And it's not a "trans."
Nothing against "trans" as people. I sympathize. I think it'd be a tough road to travel, usually a very tough road. But I'm not going to get hard. And I can always tell. Damn that wiring, but I can always tell, or the part of my brain that tells my blood to go fill up my dick can always tell. And if you're smart, you celebrate that part of your brain. You nurture it and trust it and honor it, and above all, you listen to it. Talk about submissive! Here I am, the big swaggerin' "Dom" who's completely submissive to what I bet is a shockingly small corner of real estate somewhere at the base of his skull. Oh well.
So should an online trans-man tell the other guy? The answer: Yeah, and right away, if you actually intend to meet up. Why? Because no matter how alluring your talk, this will eventually boil down to a real estate merger in a part of two brains that couldn't really give a flyin' fuck about the words.
Here's something else. The male is a much more visual animal than the female, unless maybe he's blind and then other sense take over. This is why the profiles without pictures don't work too well with men. We want to see what ya look like, and God help ya if you don't resemble your pics on the actual meeting. It's not about your character or your story. It's about whether you get my dick hard. We'll work out the rest later.
Here's something else: The only reason to communicate online is to arrange a meeting in person. If you swap more than two or three e-mails before that happens, someone's usually bullshitting someone else.
More...
Nothing against "trans" as people. I sympathize. I think it'd be a tough road to travel, usually a very tough road. But I'm not going to get hard. And I can always tell. Damn that wiring, but I can always tell, or the part of my brain that tells my blood to go fill up my dick can always tell. And if you're smart, you celebrate that part of your brain. You nurture it and trust it and honor it, and above all, you listen to it. Talk about submissive! Here I am, the big swaggerin' "Dom" who's completely submissive to what I bet is a shockingly small corner of real estate somewhere at the base of his skull. Oh well.
So should an online trans-man tell the other guy? The answer: Yeah, and right away, if you actually intend to meet up. Why? Because no matter how alluring your talk, this will eventually boil down to a real estate merger in a part of two brains that couldn't really give a flyin' fuck about the words.
Here's something else. The male is a much more visual animal than the female, unless maybe he's blind and then other sense take over. This is why the profiles without pictures don't work too well with men. We want to see what ya look like, and God help ya if you don't resemble your pics on the actual meeting. It's not about your character or your story. It's about whether you get my dick hard. We'll work out the rest later.
Here's something else: The only reason to communicate online is to arrange a meeting in person. If you swap more than two or three e-mails before that happens, someone's usually bullshitting someone else.
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