Slog Comments
SL Letter of the Day: Get Your Twink On
1
She's attracted to males and she calls her self "Bi"? WTF. I think she needs to understand that attraction to the opposite sex does not make on "Bi".
2
How bout she lets him know about her attraction to the little twink boys; and being the dom he is, he fucks her while a hot twink is on the tv or computer? He gets off by telling her what a little bitch the guy is, so he gets his, and she is able to look at what she wants while he fucks her the way that makes her cum harder than she ever has.
Sounds kinda hot and fun to me. Whaddya think Dan?
Sounds kinda hot and fun to me. Whaddya think Dan?
3
"I don't see any reason why his non-twink status places your relationship at any greater risk of sexlessness in the future. Make BDSM sex your default setting"
Except that it's possible that the BDSM may diminish over time, either as they both get busier with other parts of their lives, or they have kids, or he gets tired of always being the Top. Unless they have the energy to keep doing SM, there's a fairly reasonable chance it might get deprioritized: Topping take a lot of energy and effort, after all.
That said, perhaps she can grow to find him sexy. This might not be for everyone, but I've found personally that if I'm with someone I like who is not my physical ideal, I can grow to find them attractive. I still fantasize about Lorilei Lee, but I can get hot for my overweight partner too. She could always initiate by getting her head into a 'subby' space and give him blowjobs or something.
Are their libidos relatively evenly matched? That might be something to consider when thinking about the long term and various options they have.
In other, yeah, they sound like a sweet match. I hope it works out for them.
Also, twinks are hot.
Except that it's possible that the BDSM may diminish over time, either as they both get busier with other parts of their lives, or they have kids, or he gets tired of always being the Top. Unless they have the energy to keep doing SM, there's a fairly reasonable chance it might get deprioritized: Topping take a lot of energy and effort, after all.
That said, perhaps she can grow to find him sexy. This might not be for everyone, but I've found personally that if I'm with someone I like who is not my physical ideal, I can grow to find them attractive. I still fantasize about Lorilei Lee, but I can get hot for my overweight partner too. She could always initiate by getting her head into a 'subby' space and give him blowjobs or something.
Are their libidos relatively evenly matched? That might be something to consider when thinking about the long term and various options they have.
In other, yeah, they sound like a sweet match. I hope it works out for them.
Also, twinks are hot.
4
@1 so then, a straight person who hasn't ever had sex or a relationship isn't really straight?
I take offense to your statement. I am a bi woman and have never sustained a relationship with a woman for very long, all LTR have been with males. Does this make me straight?
I take offense to your statement. I am a bi woman and have never sustained a relationship with a woman for very long, all LTR have been with males. Does this make me straight?
7
I've thought this over, through and through, up and down, sideways. I've decided that this letter, while somewhat hot, becomes much, much hotter with the addition of a second dick to the bed. Preferably a bisexual twink bondage bottom.
Bed in vanilla mode: twink fucks letter writer.
With a simple pull of the cord, the bed converts into kink mode. Twink gets tied up and forced to watch bear slap around letter writer.
Bed in vanilla mode: twink fucks letter writer.
With a simple pull of the cord, the bed converts into kink mode. Twink gets tied up and forced to watch bear slap around letter writer.
9
@8 I'm not sure I understand. I looked up "Tumblr Pansexual" and just found a bunch of blogs about semantics. Whatever, I just think its wrong to doubt someone's identity on the fact that she has two hetero relationships on the books.
10
Seems to me the unstated problem is that the ratio of BDSM to vanilla sex is not tuned correctly for LW's taste. Why is that? If you are both into BDSM, who is asking for the vanilla? When does that occur?
If you are worried about not initiating vanilla, why not just make a point of initiating a lot of the stuff that you find hot? It would be one thing if that meant depriving him of his preference, but you say he likes that too. That should end up meaning he feels attractive because you are initiating a lot, and you are fucking most of the time in the way you like best, which should make the comparatively small amount of time left for vanilla sex bearable.
On the other hand, if by vanilla you mean that he has just put down the whip after spending the last forty five minutes making you come like a cattle prod plugged into the house mains, and now wants to hump, it's your turn to work for his pleasure, even if it does feel like work compared to what you just were getting. Lie back and think of England (or your twink) if you must, but if simultaneous orgasms aren't in the cards, he already gave you yours many times over, and it would not do to harbor reservations about returning the favor. If that prospect alarms you, then this goes beyond mere "not my ideal" and is getting into actual "sexually incompatible" territory.
As far as feeling guilty about fantasizing about others: don't worry, I guarantee he fantasizes about people with porn-star bodies too, even if he is telling you you're gorgeous. Maybe his tastes are just broad, or maybe he's just lying to prop up your self-image (in other words, what you admit doing to him), because a sex life with someone who thinks of himself as loathsome is kind of a downer, but in any case you can be sure he fantasizes about other people with other body shapes too. That falls into the area of Don't Inquire Too Closely, because radical honesty is almost certainly not as nice as the way he is treating you now. As long as your fantasies stay inside your head, they aren't hurting him, so don't worry about them.
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If you are worried about not initiating vanilla, why not just make a point of initiating a lot of the stuff that you find hot? It would be one thing if that meant depriving him of his preference, but you say he likes that too. That should end up meaning he feels attractive because you are initiating a lot, and you are fucking most of the time in the way you like best, which should make the comparatively small amount of time left for vanilla sex bearable.
On the other hand, if by vanilla you mean that he has just put down the whip after spending the last forty five minutes making you come like a cattle prod plugged into the house mains, and now wants to hump, it's your turn to work for his pleasure, even if it does feel like work compared to what you just were getting. Lie back and think of England (or your twink) if you must, but if simultaneous orgasms aren't in the cards, he already gave you yours many times over, and it would not do to harbor reservations about returning the favor. If that prospect alarms you, then this goes beyond mere "not my ideal" and is getting into actual "sexually incompatible" territory.
As far as feeling guilty about fantasizing about others: don't worry, I guarantee he fantasizes about people with porn-star bodies too, even if he is telling you you're gorgeous. Maybe his tastes are just broad, or maybe he's just lying to prop up your self-image (in other words, what you admit doing to him), because a sex life with someone who thinks of himself as loathsome is kind of a downer, but in any case you can be sure he fantasizes about other people with other body shapes too. That falls into the area of Don't Inquire Too Closely, because radical honesty is almost certainly not as nice as the way he is treating you now. As long as your fantasies stay inside your head, they aren't hurting him, so don't worry about them.
11
@1 I'd say an attraction to the opposite sex is a big part of what makes one bi. It's half of the definition, in fact.
12
@1: I just don't understand why she's bothering to frame this as "twink" and "bear" when there are well enough descriptors that don't require her to imply other factors at work here.
13
Hey LW- I'm not physically attracted to my hubby of 21 years, either. He's always been a big boy, and I like 'em smaller and not over-weight. He thinks I'm too tall and too skinny, so I'm not his ideal either. HOWEVER, after 20 years, he's grown on me and I do find him boner material. We still have our ideals, and we do have an open marriage, but I wouldn't trade him for the hottest man on earth, and I think he feels the same. But- we had many other guys under our belts before we met, and you're still young.
If you ditch this guy, 10 years from now you'll still be regretting it. Up the BDSM sex, chill on the vanilla, and don't plan on losing your libido. You'll be happier in the long run.
If you ditch this guy, 10 years from now you'll still be regretting it. Up the BDSM sex, chill on the vanilla, and don't plan on losing your libido. You'll be happier in the long run.
14
But she ALSO said that sex with her twink "ex boyfriend, who was 6 feet tall, 160 pounds, and utterly hairless" was in fact "overall underwhelming" So it is really twinks that turn her on? or is she just most turned on by BDSM?
15
#4 Yes it does in YOUR CASE. Why? because that is how you live; AS A straight person, how you act as a str8 person, how you behave as a str8 person, for the world to see. Living in secret, in your heart does not count because we can't SEE that. What you think is of no matter, how you act is what we see.
16
#11 she said herself she is attracted to men, twinks of the male sort. That's not an opposite sex for a woman last time I checked. She's NOT Bi, she's str8. She lives it, acts it, does it, sucks it, fucks it, pegs it. She's str8.
18
@16 She talks about men in her letter because her problem has nothing to do with women. If she says she's bi, then we can assume that she has an attraction to women that she didn't mention in the letter because it's not relevant.
19
Well, there is a risk that if they get married and start a family that her sex drive will go down (not a rule of course, but definitely seems to happen with women often enough). If she doesn't find him at all attractive now I feel sorry for him in the future.
She may have to tell him the truth and let him decide if he can live with not being seen as attractive even a little bit.
She may have to tell him the truth and let him decide if he can live with not being seen as attractive even a little bit.
20
I can't help but think that if the genders were reversed, everyone would be shaming the woman for not putting more effort into losing weight. This guy avoids that somehow.
22
I am going to rain on the LW parade...
She couldn't be more clear: she does NOT find her sexual partner sexually attractive. It's not a question of him not be her ideal, i.e. close but not ideal. She stated she has zero desire to have sex with him.
She is signing herself for a lifetime of faking attraction. Unless she is the Wayne Gretzky of acting, her husband is eventually going to clue in that she has no desire for him. That revelation will be soul crushing - who among us would feel healthy if their monogamous lifetime spouse confessed s/he has zero physical attraction.
She is 25, she has no kids, she should be in no rush. If he proposes, be ready with an "I'm not ready yet" and see how you feel in 2 more years once the non-existent butterflies die off. Kinky guys are a dime a dozen, kinky 25 year old girls should be in demand.
She couldn't be more clear: she does NOT find her sexual partner sexually attractive. It's not a question of him not be her ideal, i.e. close but not ideal. She stated she has zero desire to have sex with him.
She is signing herself for a lifetime of faking attraction. Unless she is the Wayne Gretzky of acting, her husband is eventually going to clue in that she has no desire for him. That revelation will be soul crushing - who among us would feel healthy if their monogamous lifetime spouse confessed s/he has zero physical attraction.
She is 25, she has no kids, she should be in no rush. If he proposes, be ready with an "I'm not ready yet" and see how you feel in 2 more years once the non-existent butterflies die off. Kinky guys are a dime a dozen, kinky 25 year old girls should be in demand.
23
Sargon Bighorn, you keep confusing opposite and same sex attraction ("she is attracted to men, twinks of the male sort. That's not an opposite sex for a woman."), which makes it hard to be sure what you mean.
But I'm guessing you know someone who has strong attraction to the same sex (he's a guy, let's say, and he's very attracted to guys, he fantasizes a lot about guys). But that's all in his head, "in secret, in [his] heart." Those fantasies "do not count because we can't SEE that." All anyone can see is how he acts in the world, and there he is as str8 as they come.
None of my business, of course. But if you do know such a person, you might try suggesting that they experiment with acting on their fantasies. Just one little baby step, maybe. Easy to go back to acting str8 if the experiment isn't very satisfying...
But I'm guessing you know someone who has strong attraction to the same sex (he's a guy, let's say, and he's very attracted to guys, he fantasizes a lot about guys). But that's all in his head, "in secret, in [his] heart." Those fantasies "do not count because we can't SEE that." All anyone can see is how he acts in the world, and there he is as str8 as they come.
None of my business, of course. But if you do know such a person, you might try suggesting that they experiment with acting on their fantasies. Just one little baby step, maybe. Easy to go back to acting str8 if the experiment isn't very satisfying...
24
@1 and in agreement @4,
Why do women have to be equal-opportunity bisexuals to be considered bi? If she says she's bi, she's bi. Who gives a shit? She doesn't have to give out her fuck-resume everytime she declares her sexual orientation. She could be a tapdancing MTF with a scat fetish and webbed toes for all that it matters.
Why do women have to be equal-opportunity bisexuals to be considered bi? If she says she's bi, she's bi. Who gives a shit? She doesn't have to give out her fuck-resume everytime she declares her sexual orientation. She could be a tapdancing MTF with a scat fetish and webbed toes for all that it matters.
25
16, please explain to me why it's any business of yours. Why your understanding of someone else's sexuality is somehow more important than their own understanding, and why, if you're confused, you are somehow owed an explanation. Everything you've written on this thread tells me one thing: it's all your problem, and no one else's.
26
Physical attraction is powerful and irrational. Good luck.
So you're not into bears. How about wolves? Maybe your boyfriend could hit the gym and make that transformation. But if it has to a skinny guy...
So you're not into bears. How about wolves? Maybe your boyfriend could hit the gym and make that transformation. But if it has to a skinny guy...
27
@1
For the record: in order to be bisexual, she HAS to be attracted to males. If she's not attracted to males, she's gay. I don't understand your conundrum, exactly.
For the record: in order to be bisexual, she HAS to be attracted to males. If she's not attracted to males, she's gay. I don't understand your conundrum, exactly.
29
@15: In that case, ex-gay therapy actually does turn people straight, at least for a while. After all, they stop acting gay, right?
Meanwhile, back in the land of REALITY, attraction is the sole defining factor of orientation and it matters not a whit whether or not you can see it.
Meanwhile, back in the land of REALITY, attraction is the sole defining factor of orientation and it matters not a whit whether or not you can see it.
30
Oh thx ppl talking sense. Was about to get vexed at people accusing the LW of not being bi.
It's an orientation. For example, a gay guy, living as a straight guy, pretending, maybe even married, is still a gay guy. A bi woman, when involved with a man, is still a bisexual woman, even if she isn't with both a man & a woman at the same time.
But when seeing a man, if it's monogamous, I'm a very out bi woman. 'cause the more of us people know, the harder it is to discriminate.
FWIW it's very rare that bisexuality has come up in any of these discussion threads w/out some biphobia rearing its head in the 1st 25 posts or so. There's either some questioning of the LW's being bi or someone explaining that bi isn't really a thing.
Can I tell ya, most bi women I know are in relationships with men. We sometimes get to fool around with other women, but gay women = hard to find, & many of them won't date bisexual ladies. Bi women, also hard to spot, as most are with men, therefore making identification challenging.
It's an orientation. For example, a gay guy, living as a straight guy, pretending, maybe even married, is still a gay guy. A bi woman, when involved with a man, is still a bisexual woman, even if she isn't with both a man & a woman at the same time.
But when seeing a man, if it's monogamous, I'm a very out bi woman. 'cause the more of us people know, the harder it is to discriminate.
FWIW it's very rare that bisexuality has come up in any of these discussion threads w/out some biphobia rearing its head in the 1st 25 posts or so. There's either some questioning of the LW's being bi or someone explaining that bi isn't really a thing.
Can I tell ya, most bi women I know are in relationships with men. We sometimes get to fool around with other women, but gay women = hard to find, & many of them won't date bisexual ladies. Bi women, also hard to spot, as most are with men, therefore making identification challenging.
31
One of those times when Dan's advice is word-for-word what I would have said. Though I would add:
"And another thing: if you love this guy and want to spend the rest of your life married to him, why don't you ask him to marry you already? It's the 21st century. Women are allowed to propose, too."
"And another thing: if you love this guy and want to spend the rest of your life married to him, why don't you ask him to marry you already? It's the 21st century. Women are allowed to propose, too."
32
@30 Great explanation. It's also why many bi men are in LTRs with women -- *not* because bi men are less interested in a LTR with a guy, but simply because there are way more women-attracted-to-males seeking LTR in the world than men-attracted-to-males seeking LTR so the odds are a bi person will find an other-sex partner.
And for the subset of bi men who are non-monogamous, it's way easier to graze on the dude side of the fence when being horny & non-monogamous, explaining that stereotype. Despite the overall minority percentage of males-attracted-to-males seeking LTRs, a significant percentage of guys-into-guys are on Grindr at every hour of the day or night looking for Mr. Right Now.
Also, @30, I know of a few lesbian women partnered with women and one out gay man who have said in private they're a bit bi in terms of history and occasional interests, but they find it way too complicated to be out about that part of their lives to most of their friends because (1) some come from the "bi isn't real" perspective, and (2) some of the out bi people that we know are the annoying angry bi type, so ironically that keeps the sane bi people silent.
And for the subset of bi men who are non-monogamous, it's way easier to graze on the dude side of the fence when being horny & non-monogamous, explaining that stereotype. Despite the overall minority percentage of males-attracted-to-males seeking LTRs, a significant percentage of guys-into-guys are on Grindr at every hour of the day or night looking for Mr. Right Now.
Also, @30, I know of a few lesbian women partnered with women and one out gay man who have said in private they're a bit bi in terms of history and occasional interests, but they find it way too complicated to be out about that part of their lives to most of their friends because (1) some come from the "bi isn't real" perspective, and (2) some of the out bi people that we know are the annoying angry bi type, so ironically that keeps the sane bi people silent.
33
@ 32: yah! Mebbe if we didn't have straight AND gay people (oh the irony) telling us our orientation wasn't real, we'd pick a side, we're greedy, we're confused, etc; mebbe bisexuals wouldn't sound so angry or crazy alla time? ;)
Your other point is good. I know at least a few guys who identify as gay, but I they're bi. Know some of their lady exes, have heard them comment on this that or t'other woman, etc. (Not confusing lady exes w/ ladies some guys would date in an attempt to look/be straight.) They'd cop to being bi if it wouldn't make their (sometimes misogynistic) husbands crazy; a couple of them have told me as much.
Your other point is good. I know at least a few guys who identify as gay, but I they're bi. Know some of their lady exes, have heard them comment on this that or t'other woman, etc. (Not confusing lady exes w/ ladies some guys would date in an attempt to look/be straight.) They'd cop to being bi if it wouldn't make their (sometimes misogynistic) husbands crazy; a couple of them have told me as much.
34
Uh..bringing it back to the LW..if your current is up for you ogling twinkies while you have your fun, mazel tov. But I agree with pretty much everything Dan said, w/ the caveat of: don't hurry into marriage. Your mate sounds like a sexy & patient prize, to me, but you're feeling uncertain & that's not a crime, whatever the reason. Why not revisit the idea of a more permanent union in awhile, see how you feel about it then? In the long run, whether someone is your type matters less than you'd think. It does sound like you have chemistry despite that.
Take some time. I'm 40, & very few people I've known since our 20's are with the partner they were then.
Take some time. I'm 40, & very few people I've known since our 20's are with the partner they were then.
35
@Sargon Bighorn Wow, the ignorance in your comments is quite astounding..
@22, you're confusing between being sexually attracted and physically attracted to someone - although there is an overlap they are not synonymous. The LW appears to be very much sexually attracted to her partner, otherwise she would not say things such as:
"he makes me wet and horny like a slut and I come crazy hard."
"[I am] having more orgasms than ever before"
She's not faking these orgasm, she's just faking her physically attraction towards him. Attractions (just like physical appearances) change over time.
@22, you're confusing between being sexually attracted and physically attracted to someone - although there is an overlap they are not synonymous. The LW appears to be very much sexually attracted to her partner, otherwise she would not say things such as:
"he makes me wet and horny like a slut and I come crazy hard."
"[I am] having more orgasms than ever before"
She's not faking these orgasm, she's just faking her physically attraction towards him. Attractions (just like physical appearances) change over time.
37
@27: The point of 1 is, what the fuck does her being Bi have to do with anything if she's only talking about men?
38
@37 A lot of people mention their sexual orientation when they write to Dan, whether it's relevant or not. I guess it's become traditional, or something.
39
Ms Hopkins - Now this is interesting. Why not convince them to dump the misogynists? (I'll pay you the compliment of being able to distinguish which husbands are genuine misogynists and which are Reasonably - or Otherwise - Scared of All Things the Least Bit Hetero-Flavoured.)
Actually, one could make the case that all those relationships ought to end, though it's tricky deciding whose benefit one advocates in recommending so.
Actually, one could make the case that all those relationships ought to end, though it's tricky deciding whose benefit one advocates in recommending so.
40
I would definitely caution the LW to wait before considering a long term commitment here, until she knows what is most important to her.
I am a woman pretty much exclusively attracted to one type of man - not far away from the LW's type. I thought this was just a "physical ideal" and something I could compromise on. I also thought at times I was being shallow, and too picky.
I ended up in a relationship with a man who was tall, broad, quite muscular. A long way from my type. We spent nearly a decade in a relationship which despite trying and trying just didn't work sexually due to my lack of sexual attraction to him.
After a lot of kidding myself that my sex drive was in the wrong we split up for a bit, prompted in large part by me getting involved (with my partner's knowledge) with another guy who was much more my type. I realised then that it was really important to me to be with someone I had a strong sexual desire for.
Then my long-term partner and I got back together on the basis of having an open relationship to deal with my need for adorable hairless men with questionable sexual orientations, and on the basis he could get the sex he wasn't getting from me elsewhere. We did this because we get along so very well as people, we share finances so well, we trust each other so much, we share a lot of interests and dreams for the future, etc.
That lasted until I got involved with another guy who was more my type. Having real intimacy with someone I also desperately want to screw is something I now realise I really need, and I found myself closer and closer to the new partner and with less time for the long term one. I realised I really can't balance multiple serious partners - I focus on one person. This caused a whole load of friction, and before long a conversation where he and I realised we'd really done a lot of damage to each other's self esteem and sex drives. Both of us really needed a partner who offers more than commitment and stability, and really good sex once in a blue moon. I needed someone I really wanted, and he needed someone who really wanted him.
So we split up, but since we work so well and in a lot of ways we're sharing the house, the car, our finances, and so on. Why throw out the good bits? It was hard work but we're as close as ever, just minus the sexual/romantic relationship bit which really wasn't working.
I'm sure for some people compromising over the sexual attraction bit is workable. For other people I'm sure open or poly relationships help sort this situation out. But neither worked for me, and it took me years to figure out the solution. I'm very glad I didn't get married during those years, it would have made an already complicated and difficult situation even worse.
I would also like to echo those commentors who mentioned the effect this might have on your partner - my lack of desire definitely had an effect on my ex. Years of thinking or knowing that you can't turn on the person you desire and love would surely hurt anyone, if the situation is not resolved in some way. Don't ignore this situation and just try to put up with it for both of your sakes. I think there are a lot of potential ways to deal with it, but you need to figure out which one works best for you both.
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I am a woman pretty much exclusively attracted to one type of man - not far away from the LW's type. I thought this was just a "physical ideal" and something I could compromise on. I also thought at times I was being shallow, and too picky.
I ended up in a relationship with a man who was tall, broad, quite muscular. A long way from my type. We spent nearly a decade in a relationship which despite trying and trying just didn't work sexually due to my lack of sexual attraction to him.
After a lot of kidding myself that my sex drive was in the wrong we split up for a bit, prompted in large part by me getting involved (with my partner's knowledge) with another guy who was much more my type. I realised then that it was really important to me to be with someone I had a strong sexual desire for.
Then my long-term partner and I got back together on the basis of having an open relationship to deal with my need for adorable hairless men with questionable sexual orientations, and on the basis he could get the sex he wasn't getting from me elsewhere. We did this because we get along so very well as people, we share finances so well, we trust each other so much, we share a lot of interests and dreams for the future, etc.
That lasted until I got involved with another guy who was more my type. Having real intimacy with someone I also desperately want to screw is something I now realise I really need, and I found myself closer and closer to the new partner and with less time for the long term one. I realised I really can't balance multiple serious partners - I focus on one person. This caused a whole load of friction, and before long a conversation where he and I realised we'd really done a lot of damage to each other's self esteem and sex drives. Both of us really needed a partner who offers more than commitment and stability, and really good sex once in a blue moon. I needed someone I really wanted, and he needed someone who really wanted him.
So we split up, but since we work so well and in a lot of ways we're sharing the house, the car, our finances, and so on. Why throw out the good bits? It was hard work but we're as close as ever, just minus the sexual/romantic relationship bit which really wasn't working.
I'm sure for some people compromising over the sexual attraction bit is workable. For other people I'm sure open or poly relationships help sort this situation out. But neither worked for me, and it took me years to figure out the solution. I'm very glad I didn't get married during those years, it would have made an already complicated and difficult situation even worse.
I would also like to echo those commentors who mentioned the effect this might have on your partner - my lack of desire definitely had an effect on my ex. Years of thinking or knowing that you can't turn on the person you desire and love would surely hurt anyone, if the situation is not resolved in some way. Don't ignore this situation and just try to put up with it for both of your sakes. I think there are a lot of potential ways to deal with it, but you need to figure out which one works best for you both.
41
I am the LW.
@2 I don't know why I didn't think of that. Sounds hot; clearly I should try it.
On the marriage front, we are definitely planning on a long engagement. I am conflicted about this, mostly because I'm afraid of ending up in the sort of situation that @40 describes. But I think the commenter who said I'll regret it for a long time if I ditch him is right.
@2 I don't know why I didn't think of that. Sounds hot; clearly I should try it.
On the marriage front, we are definitely planning on a long engagement. I am conflicted about this, mostly because I'm afraid of ending up in the sort of situation that @40 describes. But I think the commenter who said I'll regret it for a long time if I ditch him is right.
43
@TwinkLover: If you're attracted to him when he's in his dominating role, I wonder if you can incorporate that more into your "vanilla" sex. Maybe you don't want to get out the bondage equipment every time you have sex, but maybe if he just assumed the dominant role (ordering you around, calling you his slave, smacking your ass with his hand as he fucks you doggy-style, whatever) when you have sex sans accessories, that might be enough to get you going.
But if you desire vanilla sex with someone you're attracted to, or he desires vanilla sex in which you act as equals, I really don't know what to tell you. It's dangerous to get super-committed to someone who doesn't satisfy your major urges,
In addition, I think it's worth it to recognize that there's a huge difference between "not my physical ideal" and "not attracted to him at all". The way you phrase your second paragraph in the letter, I wonder if the way he looks repels you a bit. If that's the case, and you or he want vanilla sex to be an active part of your sex life, that's going to come to a head eventually.
But if you desire vanilla sex with someone you're attracted to, or he desires vanilla sex in which you act as equals, I really don't know what to tell you. It's dangerous to get super-committed to someone who doesn't satisfy your major urges,
In addition, I think it's worth it to recognize that there's a huge difference between "not my physical ideal" and "not attracted to him at all". The way you phrase your second paragraph in the letter, I wonder if the way he looks repels you a bit. If that's the case, and you or he want vanilla sex to be an active part of your sex life, that's going to come to a head eventually.
44
I generally agree with Dan's advice, but this is a case where not having long term sexual experience with women really crimps his perspective.
Here is a sentence that really shows it is written by a man whose sexual experience is with other men: "If your relationship isn't sexless now despite your boyfriend's non-twink status, TL, I don't see any reason why his non-twink status places your relationship at any greater risk of sexlessness in the future." It makes perfect sense why Dan would say that because that is how men are. If we at one time wanted to fuck you, we will at all later times also want to fuck you. Women just aren't like that.
I predict that if this couple gets married they will be sexless within two years, perhaps earlier. It is extremely common for women to experience a loss in desire a few years after marriage. This is much less common for men. There is a reason why we hear about "lesbian bed death" and frustrated husbands in sexless marriages while we hear of plenty of gay male couples boning happily until one of them dies.
Her sexual interest in this guy is only going to go down. If it is already so low she can barely muster interest before marriage, there is just no chance her interest will last after marriage.
My own experience may shed a little light. Like the LW, my wife is bi and kinky. She also had an extremely extensive sexual history before we met. Unlike the LW, she has always been more attracted to me than I am to her.
Her high libido and attraction to me meant that we had a lot of sex before marriage. This continued for about a year after our marriage at which point our sex life died out. The conception of our first child is easy to remember because we only tried three times. Her libido returned during her first pregnancy. After our first child was born it seemingly left for good.
She got pregnant two more times which required a total of three tries. Obviously, each of those is easy to remember as well. Despite the fact that she wanted more than one child it required me to take sole responsibility to arrange for the conceptions.
Because she is also a Savage Love reader and podcast listener she seldom refuses if I request a blow job. However, she never initiates sex and generally does not want reciprocation. She would prefer to never have vaginal intercourse again. She no longer really considers herself bi (although she has had primary relationships with women in the past) and seems to have even given up looking at porn in the last year or so.
I don't believe this is because she is not attracted to me. Her nickname for me is "gorgeous." The fact remains that I made the tradeoff Dan suggests and married a person I was otherwise compatible with but who I was not very attracted to. Now I am married (with children) to someone I am not very attracted to who also doesn't want to have sex. This is true even though we started off with a more promising outlook than the LW gives in her letter.
It may be that the LW can have a happy marriage. Mine is generally happy and I love my children. Both of them need to be aware that if their marriage is happy it is despite the fact that it is sexless. The lack of my own sex life is a major problem for me. I stay married because I love my family and my children. If we did not have children I would have divorced her many years ago. Not because I don't like or love her, but because there is no point to a sexless, childless, marriage.
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Here is a sentence that really shows it is written by a man whose sexual experience is with other men: "If your relationship isn't sexless now despite your boyfriend's non-twink status, TL, I don't see any reason why his non-twink status places your relationship at any greater risk of sexlessness in the future." It makes perfect sense why Dan would say that because that is how men are. If we at one time wanted to fuck you, we will at all later times also want to fuck you. Women just aren't like that.
I predict that if this couple gets married they will be sexless within two years, perhaps earlier. It is extremely common for women to experience a loss in desire a few years after marriage. This is much less common for men. There is a reason why we hear about "lesbian bed death" and frustrated husbands in sexless marriages while we hear of plenty of gay male couples boning happily until one of them dies.
Her sexual interest in this guy is only going to go down. If it is already so low she can barely muster interest before marriage, there is just no chance her interest will last after marriage.
My own experience may shed a little light. Like the LW, my wife is bi and kinky. She also had an extremely extensive sexual history before we met. Unlike the LW, she has always been more attracted to me than I am to her.
Her high libido and attraction to me meant that we had a lot of sex before marriage. This continued for about a year after our marriage at which point our sex life died out. The conception of our first child is easy to remember because we only tried three times. Her libido returned during her first pregnancy. After our first child was born it seemingly left for good.
She got pregnant two more times which required a total of three tries. Obviously, each of those is easy to remember as well. Despite the fact that she wanted more than one child it required me to take sole responsibility to arrange for the conceptions.
Because she is also a Savage Love reader and podcast listener she seldom refuses if I request a blow job. However, she never initiates sex and generally does not want reciprocation. She would prefer to never have vaginal intercourse again. She no longer really considers herself bi (although she has had primary relationships with women in the past) and seems to have even given up looking at porn in the last year or so.
I don't believe this is because she is not attracted to me. Her nickname for me is "gorgeous." The fact remains that I made the tradeoff Dan suggests and married a person I was otherwise compatible with but who I was not very attracted to. Now I am married (with children) to someone I am not very attracted to who also doesn't want to have sex. This is true even though we started off with a more promising outlook than the LW gives in her letter.
It may be that the LW can have a happy marriage. Mine is generally happy and I love my children. Both of them need to be aware that if their marriage is happy it is despite the fact that it is sexless. The lack of my own sex life is a major problem for me. I stay married because I love my family and my children. If we did not have children I would have divorced her many years ago. Not because I don't like or love her, but because there is no point to a sexless, childless, marriage.
45
@44 (Learned Hand):
I'm sorry to hear about the lack of sex in your marriage. For what it's worth, while I disagree with Dan, I also disagree with your statement that "If we at one time wanted to fuck you, we will at all later times also want to fuck you." Maybe that's true for some men, but we hear plenty from men who have lost sexual interest in their wives as they have aged, gained or lost weight, etc.
I think we want to understand attraction and desire and to be able to pin them down so we can ensure their longevity, but I don't think it is possible. Sometimes, for some reason, people just stop being attracted to one another, or one person's desire for another just disappears.
We want to blame it on physical changes that the no-longer desirable one has undergone, or a hormonal drop in libido that can be "fixed," preferably with a simple pill taken once daily. We want to solve it by a man's making more of an effort with housework, or a woman's not "letting herself go." We explain it by children being there and time-consuming (with the expectation that they will get older and not be so much of a drain). Undoubtedly, all these things can contribute to a drop in libido in general or the diminishment of interest in a specific person, but ultimately, there is often no one or two identifiable causes.
It's a shame, and a drag, and one of the great mysteries of life, and it throws a lot of people's lives into despair or disarray, but sometimes we just turn off to a person sexually.
I'm sorry to hear about the lack of sex in your marriage. For what it's worth, while I disagree with Dan, I also disagree with your statement that "If we at one time wanted to fuck you, we will at all later times also want to fuck you." Maybe that's true for some men, but we hear plenty from men who have lost sexual interest in their wives as they have aged, gained or lost weight, etc.
I think we want to understand attraction and desire and to be able to pin them down so we can ensure their longevity, but I don't think it is possible. Sometimes, for some reason, people just stop being attracted to one another, or one person's desire for another just disappears.
We want to blame it on physical changes that the no-longer desirable one has undergone, or a hormonal drop in libido that can be "fixed," preferably with a simple pill taken once daily. We want to solve it by a man's making more of an effort with housework, or a woman's not "letting herself go." We explain it by children being there and time-consuming (with the expectation that they will get older and not be so much of a drain). Undoubtedly, all these things can contribute to a drop in libido in general or the diminishment of interest in a specific person, but ultimately, there is often no one or two identifiable causes.
It's a shame, and a drag, and one of the great mysteries of life, and it throws a lot of people's lives into despair or disarray, but sometimes we just turn off to a person sexually.
46
@1 - you need to either look up the definition of bisexual, or share whatever crack you're smoking. Seriously, WTF are you talking about?
47
@44
Your problem seems less about a loss physical attraction, but a complete loss of interest in sex in general. Has your wife gone to the doctor or seen a therapist about her low libido, or have you both chalked it up to "that's what happens to women as the age and progress in relationships" like your post seems to suggests.
Your problem seems less about a loss physical attraction, but a complete loss of interest in sex in general. Has your wife gone to the doctor or seen a therapist about her low libido, or have you both chalked it up to "that's what happens to women as the age and progress in relationships" like your post seems to suggests.
48
@47- I wish I had a dime for every "go see a Dr, there's got to be some medical cause" for female loss of interest in sex, and yet lesbian bed death is real, and mostly caused by two female libidos in action. Of course there are exceptions, but...
If you ask most any MTF transexual, they will tell you that as soon as the testosterone stopped and estrogen/progesterone took its place, their libidos were completely different animals than before. All tied to securing a mate, nesting, etc. Not lust for the orgasm only, which is the case with most men.
So- two women have to fight the bed death. Two men together have to accomodate their desire to spread their seed far and wide and any problems that brings. A straight couple has to fight 'she lost interest and I'm going nuts', or 'he's pestering me constantly for sex I no longer want'.
Sigh.
If you ask most any MTF transexual, they will tell you that as soon as the testosterone stopped and estrogen/progesterone took its place, their libidos were completely different animals than before. All tied to securing a mate, nesting, etc. Not lust for the orgasm only, which is the case with most men.
So- two women have to fight the bed death. Two men together have to accomodate their desire to spread their seed far and wide and any problems that brings. A straight couple has to fight 'she lost interest and I'm going nuts', or 'he's pestering me constantly for sex I no longer want'.
Sigh.
49
@48
Sure, women are more likely to suffer natural losses of libido, but that doesn't mean they are lost causes. You say that two women to need to fight bed death. Well, wouldn't going to see a therapist help in that fight? Furthermore, sudden and complete losses of libido (44 states less than a year) are often the times (but not always of course) the result of an underlying physiological or psychological conditions. Its just best to rule this out right off the bat.
Sure, women are more likely to suffer natural losses of libido, but that doesn't mean they are lost causes. You say that two women to need to fight bed death. Well, wouldn't going to see a therapist help in that fight? Furthermore, sudden and complete losses of libido (44 states less than a year) are often the times (but not always of course) the result of an underlying physiological or psychological conditions. Its just best to rule this out right off the bat.
50
Ultimately, I was just responded to the defeated attitude of 44 when there did seem to be any effort to make any changes and just acceptance of a definitive and permanent loss of libido
51
Due to health issues I've gained quite a bit of weight since my hubby and I married almost 10 years ago but he still finds me attractive. Just because I'm no longer his physical ideal, our emotional connection makes it easy to overlook that. He's never been my physical ideal, I like tall (over 6 ft) strong fire fighter types but the few of those I dated, we couldn't connect intellectually. My hubby and I have an amazing intellectual and emotional connection that makes me far more attracted to him than my physical ideal. We have an open marriage but neither of us has taken advantage of that in a few years, mostly because we are so happy with each other.
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