Slog Comments
Local Coffee Chain Starts Charging Customers a 1.5 Percent "Sick Leave Surcharge"
1
Goddammit Ali, you always stick your head up your own ass just for fun sometimes! Reverse course (again), you know how, you ALWAYS have to.
Great coffee, good food, impulse-control-impaired owner with a super nice staff that put up with his shit until they all of a sudden can't...that's Cherry Street Coffee, always has been
Great coffee, good food, impulse-control-impaired owner with a super nice staff that put up with his shit until they all of a sudden can't...that's Cherry Street Coffee, always has been
2
So, basically, they were blowing snot and germs into our coffee and bagels before, but not charging us?
Wow, that sounds like such a premium business that I'll go somewhere else.
Wow, that sounds like such a premium business that I'll go somewhere else.
3
Ugh, the weird Jesus-y signs in the store should have tipped me off. Sad because they have great baristas.
4
I've known a few of his employees over the years and they are the nicest, most amazing people who get seduced by his warm, loving, open arms, soft spiritual vibe and then end up talking about how batshit he is. It's a damn shame.
6
And of course any business he loses from this will be blamed on the surcharge and not the dickheaded approach to the problem.
7
Very conflicted: I want the owner of this business to pay a price for being such an asshole - but I don't want to hurt the workers by not patronizing the business...
8
Fuck. I go to the Cherry Street location all the time. Love the coffee, bagels and (surly) people. But if the owner is this much of an asshole, I will take my business elsewhere.
10
He could have upped prices by 5% without giving any reason and people wouldn't have made a fuss. Another member of the party of stupid.
11
I used to work across the street from a Cherry Street Coffee and I got to know the employees who worked there because I liked the coffee and food there. We'd bitch to each other about how crazy our respective bosses were, and I heard plenty about Ali. He puts up a bullshit front about peace and love with his pretentious posters but, like many business owners, treats his employees like shit and takes them for granted (hence, no sick leave). In addition, he would occasionally come into our store and condescend to us. One time he came in to yell at one of our customers for legally parking in front of his store. This move doesn't surprise me at all.
13
"He says offering sick leave will cost him "$25,000 to $30,000 a year, easy," for his 45-plus employees."
No, dick, it doesn't cost you jack, as your passive-aggressive condescending horseshit little signs clearly demonstrate. That's kind of how capitalism works.
No, dick, it doesn't cost you jack, as your passive-aggressive condescending horseshit little signs clearly demonstrate. That's kind of how capitalism works.
14
Cherry Street is NOT the enemy your Government not providing health care is. Our Gov spends billions a week to keep the Terrorists from bombing us into the dark ages, but can't provide us with sick leave nor health care. That is the job of government, not selling coffee, which IS the Job of Cherry Street. DEMAND your government provide health care and DEMAND Cherry Street provide good coffee. No business should have to provide a service that is not part of their business.
15
Maybe the owner's of Cafe Ladro and the other non-asshole coffee houses will offer their baristas jobs and then we can boycott these assholes?
16
What's wrong with educating consumers about the effect of policy choices on the price of goods. Shouldn't Cherry Street customers feel good about paying the surcharge since its their choice that created the policy knowing their coffee price was lower when they weren't paying for sick leave. He shouldn't be required to hide the price increase which you apparently want him to. Plus you are assuming that he doesn't support the policy. He just wants to receive benefit for his small business (a healthy income). I think it's a shame you are hurting one of our local small businesses.
18
@16: Maybe he should itemize all the costs that go into the price of your latte: rent, utilities, wages, cups, coffee beans, milk, depreciation of capital, dishrags, etc.
19
The people at the Benaroya Hall Starbucks should take some sick leave...to restore their mental health. I think most of the other customers (as witnesses) would support me in this evaluation!!
20
I don't know what's worse:
1) The need to express his political views with a sign rather than silently raising the price of a $3 drink by a nickel.
2) Explaining to a reporter how all of his employees are such liars that they will use all 40 hours of their sick-leave whether or not they are sick.
What a shame. And they have such good coffee. I wish there were a Cafe Fiore downtown - their coffee is amazing. I guess now I'll get my coffee before I leave my neighborhood.
1) The need to express his political views with a sign rather than silently raising the price of a $3 drink by a nickel.
2) Explaining to a reporter how all of his employees are such liars that they will use all 40 hours of their sick-leave whether or not they are sick.
What a shame. And they have such good coffee. I wish there were a Cafe Fiore downtown - their coffee is amazing. I guess now I'll get my coffee before I leave my neighborhood.
21
Socialists always run out of other people's money to spend. Cherry Street is just illustrating the Effect to the Lib's Cause...
Bravo Cherry Street Coffee! I'm enroute to your location now.
Bravo Cherry Street Coffee! I'm enroute to your location now.
23
San Francisco has some sort of health care law for residents and a number of restaurants added a surcharge. City auditors found out that a lot of restaurants--at least 50, maybe 90 (those are the numbers that spring to mind)--were actually pocketing the surcharge. I wouldn't be surprised if this guy tries shit like that.
24
A few years ago, prices went up at Cherry Street on Lenora. The signs suggested the raises were to provide employees with health insurance. When my friend and I asked the employees about the coverage, they laughed. They did not get health care. Signs were lies. They eventually came down, but the price increase stayed.
26
@12: "Why are you beating this guy up and giving Linda Derschang a pass?"
Care to explain, or are you just going to babble here?
Care to explain, or are you just going to babble here?
27
@18:
I've actually seen coffee shops do that in the past. "Due to increases in rent, our prices have had to increase by 3% this year." Personally, I like to know that my extra cash is going towards something good (like sick leave for food workers), and not just the owner saying "huh, company x raised their prices by y, so if I also raise mine by y I can pocket an extra z%."
I've also seen it when coffee bean prices increase, though not dish rags... Still, it doesn't seem worth getting bent out of shape about. Prices are increasing, he's saying why and what the extra money goes towards. Now customers know why their latte is an extra 5 cents.
I've actually seen coffee shops do that in the past. "Due to increases in rent, our prices have had to increase by 3% this year." Personally, I like to know that my extra cash is going towards something good (like sick leave for food workers), and not just the owner saying "huh, company x raised their prices by y, so if I also raise mine by y I can pocket an extra z%."
I've also seen it when coffee bean prices increase, though not dish rags... Still, it doesn't seem worth getting bent out of shape about. Prices are increasing, he's saying why and what the extra money goes towards. Now customers know why their latte is an extra 5 cents.
28
Raising prices is understandable. Adding a surcharge is extra math, and therefore annoying.
Not that I believe his numbers anyway.
Not that I believe his numbers anyway.
29
"Ugh, buying soap and other cleaning supplies for my restaurant easily costs me $50,000 a year. Onerous health regulations in Washington are forcing me to pass those costs on to YOU, the consumer, so blame Olympia, not me!"
30
I don't drink the shitty "coffee" that Seattle "baristas" think they are making, so fuck them anyway. If someone in Seattle learns how to pull a decent shot (i.e. what you get in *any* cafe in Italy, France or Spain), I might start to give a shit. Otherwise, the owner of this dumb business isn't getting a dime of my money no matter what they do. Fuck off, shitty "coffee" company.
32
Had recently discovered this place and spent a bit of money there.
Amazing how easy this made it for me to "undiscover" it again.
What an asshole. Even if the signs and surcharge disappear, I won't return. Once these assholes decloak themselves, there's no going back for me.
Amazing how easy this made it for me to "undiscover" it again.
What an asshole. Even if the signs and surcharge disappear, I won't return. Once these assholes decloak themselves, there's no going back for me.
33
27: I could sympathize with the owner if this measure forced him to raise prices 10% or something significant. But 1.5%? He just wants to make a point. As @18 points out, he probably had numerous costs go up by at least that amount in the last year, but he's not putting up signs about it.
I really don't understand the opposition to sick leave; simple logic tells you that if an employee can get at least a DAY of rest if its something relatively minor, they're going to get better much quicker and be more productive. Besides, if the owner is so concerned about sick leave abuse, can't he fire people for it in this at-will state?
I really don't understand the opposition to sick leave; simple logic tells you that if an employee can get at least a DAY of rest if its something relatively minor, they're going to get better much quicker and be more productive. Besides, if the owner is so concerned about sick leave abuse, can't he fire people for it in this at-will state?
34
Does Ghambari realize that the employee doesn't need to be "sick" to use one of the days? The "safe time" is mentioned one in this post, but that's an important aspect of the law. It covers not only illness but also...
(For the "Sick TIme" part):
- preventative care
- care for a family member’s illness or preventative care (child, grandparent, parent, parent-in-law, spouse and registered domestic partner).
(For the Safe Time part):
- survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault or stalking.
- closure of workplace or child’s school or place of care by public official to limit exposure to infectious agent, biological toxin or hazardous material.
(above from http://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/spsst… )
Does he consider his employees "liars" if they use the time for some of the above?
(For the "Sick TIme" part):
- preventative care
- care for a family member’s illness or preventative care (child, grandparent, parent, parent-in-law, spouse and registered domestic partner).
(For the Safe Time part):
- survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault or stalking.
- closure of workplace or child’s school or place of care by public official to limit exposure to infectious agent, biological toxin or hazardous material.
(above from http://www.seattle.gov/civilrights/spsst… )
Does he consider his employees "liars" if they use the time for some of the above?
35
Wait: $16.67/hour is a pretty good wage for a position that comes with tips, which is what it would take for the law to cost him $30K. I actually hope he does, but I'm kinda doubtful.
36
I know having to provide paid sick/safe leave is hard on small businesses that didn't have sick leave before, but he doesn't have to be such an asshole about it.
Even if one of his employees does accrue 80 hours of paid sick leave, they can't just use it to take a paid two-week vacation; if it's more than 3 consecutive days, the employer can require documentation, and they only have to pay 40 hours per calendar year. Workers don't "all of a sudden" get 80 hours paid time off.
Customers always wind up paying the expenses, otherwise the business goes under. But that sign and his statements piss me off. He has the power to create a sick leave policy that would prevent abuse of paid sick leave; he should stop whining and acting helpless and work on that.
Even if one of his employees does accrue 80 hours of paid sick leave, they can't just use it to take a paid two-week vacation; if it's more than 3 consecutive days, the employer can require documentation, and they only have to pay 40 hours per calendar year. Workers don't "all of a sudden" get 80 hours paid time off.
Customers always wind up paying the expenses, otherwise the business goes under. But that sign and his statements piss me off. He has the power to create a sick leave policy that would prevent abuse of paid sick leave; he should stop whining and acting helpless and work on that.
37
@35 - Yeah, and that's only if every employee maxed out their 40 hours paid time off per year. I doubt that all 45+ will do that, although maybe they should.
39
I didn't charge my customers a surcharge, I just moved it up to everett. 90 minute street parking is free, our office lease went from $2800 a month to $800 a month, I don't have to double-pay for times when workers are sick, and I'm out of the taxing area for the basketball stadium, sea wall, I90 toll and 99 tunnel toll as well as seattle B&O taxes and all of the other crap that I had to put up with in Seattle as a local business owner.
I only gross about 2 million a year, but all of my purchases of office supplies, equipment, lunch and so on also left the city.
Best decision I ever made. Thank you, City of Seattle, for providing the motivation to move, and ended up putting $4k a month into my pocket.
I only gross about 2 million a year, but all of my purchases of office supplies, equipment, lunch and so on also left the city.
Best decision I ever made. Thank you, City of Seattle, for providing the motivation to move, and ended up putting $4k a month into my pocket.
41
Loved and recommended this place. He could have quietly raised prices if it was such an impact to a tight bottom line. He instead decided to come off as a tea baggy douche, so I'll be un-recommending his place every chance I get.
And buying about 250 x $3.00 = $750 every year. Times the amount of people who do the same thing. Wonder how that math will work out vs his 30k guess.
People will still buy to coffee out every morning...so his nice workers might need start working for less crazy owners though.
And buying about 250 x $3.00 = $750 every year. Times the amount of people who do the same thing. Wonder how that math will work out vs his 30k guess.
People will still buy to coffee out every morning...so his nice workers might need start working for less crazy owners though.
43
I moved across the street from one last year and thought I'd check out the breakfast offerings. I wanted something (with eggs) that needed a microwave. I was told the microwave weren't working just then. And I thought, how strange, the power is on and both microwaves arene't working. Haven't been back since. Note to bearded barista at 1st and Clay, stupid answers are insulting and people spending their time and money can find better ways to use both.
44
Business owners like this drive me nuts. If you don't want to deal with having employees and the attendant managerial duties and costs that go along with having employees, or you don't want to deal with finance and accounting, or work place safety, or hiring and training, or doing the work yourself - YOU SHOULD NOT BE RUNNING A BUSINESS.
46
I'm genuinely confused on this one. So... People aren't pissed he's raising his prices, but rather because he told people why? Would you rather he raised the prices and left you to assume it was because he was greedy?
Sure, he was an asshole with his phrasing. He could easily had said it was due to increased cost or something. But people's problem appears to be with his honesty or specificity, and that strikes me as odd.
Sure, he was an asshole with his phrasing. He could easily had said it was due to increased cost or something. But people's problem appears to be with his honesty or specificity, and that strikes me as odd.
47
@46 If he raised his prices why in the world would someone assume it was because he was greedy? I swear 98% of slog has absolutely no idea how a small business works. Anyway I never heard of this place before and I am going to go out of my way to get some coffee there.
48
@40: Not only does he make an extra $4000 a month by being in Everett, he's free from sanctimonious McGinn-loving douchebags like you.
49
Maybe a bad PR move or maybe not... I like the fact I know exactly where my money is going. My buzz cut at Rudy's went up from $10 to $15 a 50% increase!
When they told me it was to cover the costs of their new health insurance for their employees, I was happy to pay it and felt good about the fact that as a member of their community and customer base, I was doing my part too. We're all in this together.
Times are tough and everyone is working harder for less money. We need to take care of our own and think local.
When they told me it was to cover the costs of their new health insurance for their employees, I was happy to pay it and felt good about the fact that as a member of their community and customer base, I was doing my part too. We're all in this together.
Times are tough and everyone is working harder for less money. We need to take care of our own and think local.
50
I don't see what you're all freaking out about. Pretty much every restaurant I go to in SF has a line-item on the bill that identifies a health insurance surcharge for restaurant staff. I think it's kind of cool, actually.
Where did you think the money for healthcare/sick leave was going to come from, on the backs of the magic unicorns that fly out of his ass?
Where did you think the money for healthcare/sick leave was going to come from, on the backs of the magic unicorns that fly out of his ass?
51
I don't go to Cherry Street because the staff are always rude. My standards for service are pretty low. I just want to get my food without dirty looks or waiting for 20 minutes for a sandwich when there's only one other customer there. I don't need or want my ass kissed. I'm polite. I tip 20% and round up. Even though I like their food I stopped going there because the service was unpleasant and shitty. Whenever restaurant staff are
shitty I always wonder if the owner is an asshole. Seems like
that might be the case here.
Why is this guy so fucking put out by giving his employees sick leave? It's just basic decency.
shitty I always wonder if the owner is an asshole. Seems like
that might be the case here.
Why is this guy so fucking put out by giving his employees sick leave? It's just basic decency.
52
@16, @27, and all the other "what's wrong with posting information" types: it's about publically protesting a liberal law in a liberal city that by his own admission has almost no impact on his bottom line. The law isn't going to change, and it's clear that far more of his customers support it than don't.
That libertarian business owner model may fly in Dallas, but not here.
That libertarian business owner model may fly in Dallas, but not here.
53
Many small business owners supported this law, and were not afraid that it would have an undue burden on them. If you are going to boycott a place for not supporting it, you should be sure to visit the ones that did.
Small business owners need to educate themselves on how the law works, and how it has played out in other cities. No one has to provide 80 hours of paid sick days under this law. The largest companies have to provide a max of 9 paid sick days per year, and the smaller companies a max of 5. That cap doesn't increase if a worker doesn't use their paid time off in the year they accrue it. Ali has a fundamental misunderstanding of the law.
Tipped employees can be rescheduled and not paid for days off.
In other cities, most employees do not use their max days off per year. Especially tipped employees, since many of those make more money from tips than from their hourly wage, so even if they are paid their wage on sick days, they lose a lot of money by taking a day off. So the cost of this law cannot be measured simply by multiplying the wages each employee makes times the max number of house every employee could get if they have accrued the max paid days off. Another reason for this is that the paid sick day hours don't start accruing for the first 2 years a new business is open, nor for the first 6 months a new employee is hired. In coffee shops there is high employee turnover, so many employees will never even qualify for sicks days.
The Council will review the law's impact after 1 year. So we should be able to measure the cost to businesses.
So far, I haven't noticed any major cost nor major benefit at any of my businesses.
Bottom line - employees need days off. The cost to business won't be that much. The real benefit will be to those who aren't paid much when they have a real need not to work. And that's very valuable to that employee, while not a big cost to the employer. Otherwise, on both sides, this seems to be much ado about nothing.
If we make Seattle a great place to work, employers will benefit from being able to hire from a great pool of employees drawn to the city, and those employees will likewise have money to spend at small businesses nearby.
More...
Small business owners need to educate themselves on how the law works, and how it has played out in other cities. No one has to provide 80 hours of paid sick days under this law. The largest companies have to provide a max of 9 paid sick days per year, and the smaller companies a max of 5. That cap doesn't increase if a worker doesn't use their paid time off in the year they accrue it. Ali has a fundamental misunderstanding of the law.
Tipped employees can be rescheduled and not paid for days off.
In other cities, most employees do not use their max days off per year. Especially tipped employees, since many of those make more money from tips than from their hourly wage, so even if they are paid their wage on sick days, they lose a lot of money by taking a day off. So the cost of this law cannot be measured simply by multiplying the wages each employee makes times the max number of house every employee could get if they have accrued the max paid days off. Another reason for this is that the paid sick day hours don't start accruing for the first 2 years a new business is open, nor for the first 6 months a new employee is hired. In coffee shops there is high employee turnover, so many employees will never even qualify for sicks days.
The Council will review the law's impact after 1 year. So we should be able to measure the cost to businesses.
So far, I haven't noticed any major cost nor major benefit at any of my businesses.
Bottom line - employees need days off. The cost to business won't be that much. The real benefit will be to those who aren't paid much when they have a real need not to work. And that's very valuable to that employee, while not a big cost to the employer. Otherwise, on both sides, this seems to be much ado about nothing.
If we make Seattle a great place to work, employers will benefit from being able to hire from a great pool of employees drawn to the city, and those employees will likewise have money to spend at small businesses nearby.
54
clayview@49: really? You're happy to pay 50% more because your vendor gets 1/52nd less productivity from his staff? Really? I have a bridge to sell you that you're really going to love...
55
I've never heard of this chain. I buy my coffee from the stand in City Hall, or the Starbucks on the 40th floor of the Columbia Tower, but I will make a point not to go to any of these stores. Whines are a bore. If you can't afford to run a decent business, you shouldn't be in business.
56
Oversight, please! OK...you want to raise prices to cover sick leave expenses? Fine. But a penny of that increase better not be going for anything other than sick leave pay. Don't start using this humane and civilized law as a tool to increase profits (people of Seattle: you know that's going to happen, right?).
57
I like the baristas at the location I was going to, so I might just slide by and tip them once in a while when I'm a couple bucks to the plus, but won't order anything.
58
Bauhaus 1 - people already have their prices as high as they can have them, based on how it effects demand. Prices aren't set by cost alone. They are determined by demand. If a business can raise prices without losing sales, they will. And should. If costs increase to a point where the prices outstrips the demand, then people stop buying the product, the business changes or closes.
The real bummer of this law is that it allows organized labor to bargain away mandatory sick days, so not everyone is actually covered by it.
The real bummer of this law is that it allows organized labor to bargain away mandatory sick days, so not everyone is actually covered by it.
59
it wasn't that long ago that Ali raised prices more significantly, so I think it's safe to assume he is doing this to be a dick.
As for the employees, I'll take surly over smug any day. (smug is my weekend coffee, I'll be back to cherry st monday).
As for the employees, I'll take surly over smug any day. (smug is my weekend coffee, I'll be back to cherry st monday).
60
I will certainly be avoiding this person's establishments when visiting Seattle. Not because of the surcharge, but because of his attitude. It's a turn-off.
61
Isn't a 1.5% "fee" just a couple of pennies on a coffee purchase??
Isn't this fella a complete idiot to stir-up this much trouble over a few cents per ticket??
Isn't this fella a complete idiot to stir-up this much trouble over a few cents per ticket??
63
One way to absorb the new costs of sick and safe is to spread out the hours of the staff a little more. Schedule more 5 hour shifts as opposed to 8 hour shifts. When someone calls in sick they only have to be paid for the hours scheduled, not an entire 8 hour day. Given that labor is a set percentage of sales it forces small businesses to pay less to employees to offset the new costs. Nothing in life is free.
64
In a more succinct and similar fashion, the top banks and financial services organizations should post signs stating that the various fee charges are to pay for those humongous and undeserved bonuses accorded their senior executives, plus the trillions they've ripped off the American (and other countries') people with their contrived economic meltdown based upon ultra-leveraging and insurance swindles of the first magnitude.
But, as despicable as this is, previous commenters are correct: it is the responsibility of the gov't, were it representative of the electorate and the citizenry, to establish universal healthcare for all.
The Economic Policy Institute, which Madrid and others frequently cite, is structured to be funded by the major corporations to financially belittle the small businesses.
If Micro$oft, or the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, actually cared so much for the little people and American workers, why in the bloody hell did Micro$oft take advantage of the events of 9/11/01, to do an unscheduled, and very quiet, local layoff of around 1,000 people in the Puget Sound region, and offshore those jobs --- something which didn't appear in any publication until about a year and half afterwards (several lines referenced it in the Puget Sound Business Journal)?
But, as despicable as this is, previous commenters are correct: it is the responsibility of the gov't, were it representative of the electorate and the citizenry, to establish universal healthcare for all.
The Economic Policy Institute, which Madrid and others frequently cite, is structured to be funded by the major corporations to financially belittle the small businesses.
If Micro$oft, or the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, actually cared so much for the little people and American workers, why in the bloody hell did Micro$oft take advantage of the events of 9/11/01, to do an unscheduled, and very quiet, local layoff of around 1,000 people in the Puget Sound region, and offshore those jobs --- something which didn't appear in any publication until about a year and half afterwards (several lines referenced it in the Puget Sound Business Journal)?
65
And BTW, everyone should be either buying their coffee from Bauhaus (on Cap Hill), Seattle's Best Coffee, Lighthouse Coffee, Cafe Vita, etc., --- but but from the best local places, puuuhhlease...
66
@21, spleenqueenstoner,
Socialists always run out of other people's money to spend.
Hilarious bullcrap, sonny --- the banksters and shammeisters ONLY use OPM, other people's money --- for everything and anything! Do the math, douchey!
Socialists always run out of other people's money to spend.
Hilarious bullcrap, sonny --- the banksters and shammeisters ONLY use OPM, other people's money --- for everything and anything! Do the math, douchey!
67
It's amazing how quickly someone can become public enemy #1 in Seattle. Do you really have so little to worry about that a coffee shop owner with some bad PR skills can cause you such outrage? You people need to get a fucking life. As for Ali, I know the guy and he is not an asshole.
69
@45 - Ah, that's what I thought. So at minimum wage, plus the employer's share of SS, Medicare, and unemployment insurance, this is more like $17.9K a year if all hours are used.
However, according to the BLS, hospitality workers use an average of 2 sick days a year even when more are offered. (When they stay at home, they don't get tips.) This brings it down to $7.1K.
So if a 1.5% price hike covered $30K, then what he really needs is just a 0.36% price hike, or about a penny on a $3 drink.
What a burden! No wonder he put up that whiney sign.
However, according to the BLS, hospitality workers use an average of 2 sick days a year even when more are offered. (When they stay at home, they don't get tips.) This brings it down to $7.1K.
So if a 1.5% price hike covered $30K, then what he really needs is just a 0.36% price hike, or about a penny on a $3 drink.
What a burden! No wonder he put up that whiney sign.
70
Fuck Cherry Street Coffee.
The cost of doing business is the cost of doing business. Do they also itemize the cost of their property tax, etc. on the receipt?
Ali Ghambari is a huge asshole.
The cost of doing business is the cost of doing business. Do they also itemize the cost of their property tax, etc. on the receipt?
Ali Ghambari is a huge asshole.
71
I disagree withe rollover from year to year, because this does discourage people from using it for minor sickness which if they were going to lose it, they would STAY HOME!
I am an small employer and have been an hourly employee. I now give employees 2 vacation time that does roll over but 1 week of sick time that you lose if you don't use. This also let,s me send sickies home guilt free, but my business can also be flexible with staff as we have no walk-in business.
I am an small employer and have been an hourly employee. I now give employees 2 vacation time that does roll over but 1 week of sick time that you lose if you don't use. This also let,s me send sickies home guilt free, but my business can also be flexible with staff as we have no walk-in business.
72
This guy openly advertises that it's a huge deal to pay people not to work when they're sick? It's a huge deal for me to not get sick again this season, I will gladly spend my money at a business that actively doesn't want sick people working. Talk about fucking thick.
73
@18- this is an outstanding idea. When a coffee shop I was managing was taken over by new owners I did this for them, as a way to see where the costs/profits/losses were. It would be super easy to put up a sign with a simple breakdown of the percentage of an average item's cost, including all inputs and overhead. It would be an rough average, but helpful for customers and employees. I would also love to see similar signage with things like carbon footprint or supply chain. I think if you run an honest, above board business, being reasonable and responsible, this sort of info could really cement a customer base.
74
I can see why the conservatives are defending this guy - they don't like the free market because it's "free" and not "authoritarian." Sure they talk a good game, but when it comes down to brass tacks they'd rather have a daddy figure telling us all what to do, in all areas, not just reproductive rights, etc.
Assume a competitive market (non-corporate food service is pretty close). The law was passed. It applies to all coffee shops. They will have to raise their prices (I don't buy the 1.5% number for 1 second, but maybe the real number is like .2%, it's still greater than 0). Customers might see that and go elsewhere, but then every other coffee shop did the same thing. If other shops do like this guy and try to charge 1.5% instead of .2%, then they'll lose customers but other coffee shops will benefit from that.
People aren't going to pay a higher price if they don't have to, no matter what this guy thinks he's doing with the sign. That's a basic assumption of free market economics, and it's pretty true in the real world. If he had said "1.5% surcharge to feed orphaned dolphins," some people would pay because they're getting something more for their money (altruism), but as it is, they're getting a lecture from an asshole and being charged for it.
Most people won't change behavior, but some people will go elsewhere. This guy will blame the government instead of blaming his business choices, because he's a conservative and conservatives fundamentally don't believe in the free market.
Assume a competitive market (non-corporate food service is pretty close). The law was passed. It applies to all coffee shops. They will have to raise their prices (I don't buy the 1.5% number for 1 second, but maybe the real number is like .2%, it's still greater than 0). Customers might see that and go elsewhere, but then every other coffee shop did the same thing. If other shops do like this guy and try to charge 1.5% instead of .2%, then they'll lose customers but other coffee shops will benefit from that.
People aren't going to pay a higher price if they don't have to, no matter what this guy thinks he's doing with the sign. That's a basic assumption of free market economics, and it's pretty true in the real world. If he had said "1.5% surcharge to feed orphaned dolphins," some people would pay because they're getting something more for their money (altruism), but as it is, they're getting a lecture from an asshole and being charged for it.
Most people won't change behavior, but some people will go elsewhere. This guy will blame the government instead of blaming his business choices, because he's a conservative and conservatives fundamentally don't believe in the free market.
75
@73: Eh, that sounds like slightly less stupid of an idea, but calling out "Obamacare" and "being forced to offer sick leave" as a separate fee to shove in the face of the customer, that's going to make you a prick no matter what other context you offer.
76
Add to it that most food service workers are paid less than minimum wage (tips, you know) and the disparity is worse. I used to work for a "company that cares" and they screwed me !!!
77
@62 - ignorant or not, I get upset when I hear business owners bitch about not being able to afford taking care of their employees. You know the ones - the ones who scream and yell when the idea of raising minimum wage even a quarter is broached (that's $10 a week for a full-time employee). "You'll break me and then we'll all be out of work!" they exclaim. Then, they hop into their $70,000 car and head for their $900,000 house all purchased in part by the labors of their underpaid staff. And if he or she thinks, "Well, I'm the boss. I should live like this," then maybe he/she should be the one who has to come in at 8 o'clock Christmas morning to run things.
78
To use a Farkism:
Rick Romero school of business reports: providing employees with benefits and paid time off has extra costs. Details at 11!
Rick Romero school of business reports: providing employees with benefits and paid time off has extra costs. Details at 11!
79
Ali is just the type of corporate pig that should be scared when the revolution comes. His kind had a hard time in Paris back in 1789
80
Crooks and Liars picked this up, so the story's going national. Expect the guy to be on Fox News soon.
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/s…
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/s…
81
I worked for Ali for several years. He's not an asshole or a crook. A little slimy and thick headed, Yes. But maybe this isn't the problem we should be focusing on. Perhaps we should take a look inside the stores... roaches, black mold and soup that gets reheated five or six times before being thrown away.
82
This guy's Arab-turned-evangelical Christian, forced over-joyfulness and obsession with hiring young kids always made me feel like he's the type who brings in runaways just to sexually harass them. This doesn't improve my view of him.
83
i fucking hate coffee. it's messy and it smells like burnt asshair. plus, people get way snotty about it.
tea is simple and relatively clean. it's also less likely to make you shit your pants. and while there's crazy cultural rituals and ceremonies surrounding it, most people can plop a bag of tea in some hot water without spending six bucks and then talking about it like it's some rare fine wine.
anyway, i don't give a shit about this dude and i hope he gets kicked in the coinpurse by an angry barista. and i hope after it happens, coffee beans spill from his pant legs like a freshly ripped open burlap sack of those precious columbian dirt beans.
tea is simple and relatively clean. it's also less likely to make you shit your pants. and while there's crazy cultural rituals and ceremonies surrounding it, most people can plop a bag of tea in some hot water without spending six bucks and then talking about it like it's some rare fine wine.
anyway, i don't give a shit about this dude and i hope he gets kicked in the coinpurse by an angry barista. and i hope after it happens, coffee beans spill from his pant legs like a freshly ripped open burlap sack of those precious columbian dirt beans.
84
Republican dumbass proudly comes out as the dude who opposes sick leave *and* wants to make sure you know who to blame for his prices going up. Cheap-ass motherfucker with a Fox News sense of entitlement and victimhood.
Dumbass.
Dumbass.
85
I remember visiting San Francisco however many years ago and discovering that every restaurant added a sick leave tax to their prices. The locals I was with were very proud of this fact because it allowed the patrons to feel good about their money going to support the employees' needs.
86
According to this KOMO story today, he has pulled the signs and thinks the SPSST ordinance is "a fantastic policy":
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Sick-…
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Sick-…
87
Ali Ghambari, the owner, is full of shit. I've worked for him and his son AJ (who owns Seattle Bagel Bakery - the bagels at the cafe) and they were the worst bosses I've worked for in the industry. The arrogance here doesn't surprise me the turnover rate for his employees is ridiculous, it's all about money with Cherry Street.
88
His employees must be terrible and untrustworthy. Good thing he pointed that out for us. Asshole owner.
89
Fuckers should open their books to an independent audit to see if the surcharge is necessary. It's profit (and opportunity) gouging if they don't.
90
This seems logical. He didn't want to be a jerk and just raise prices, he wanted everyone to know the impact that this legislation has on them. Good job. Now maybe people will think about the repercussions of legislative action.
91
thinking about it further Ali MAY have a point. Many times when an employee calls in sick they aren't really sick....THEY ARE OUT GOING TO JOB INTERVIEWS!!!!
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
92
@90: I'm pleased by the legislation. I'm displeased in how he's flaming his employees and the impact on them.
"He didn't want to be a jerk and just raise prices"
He's raising prices in the most prickish way possible. Man are you stupid.
"He didn't want to be a jerk and just raise prices"
He's raising prices in the most prickish way possible. Man are you stupid.
93
See, this is the bitch about trying to support small, independent local businesses--they're not giving their employees benefits beyond the minimum required by law (and sometimes not even that, when they give folks the "opportunity" to work under-the-table).
If you boycott this place and they lose business, the owner isn't going to cut his own salary--he's going to fire somebody. So let this whiny idiocy go, pay the extra couple of cents for your luxury item, and take it as a sign that the law was a good idea--now the employees there are getting sick leave! Good for them, good for their customers! The system works!
Oh, and now that you know the boss is an asshole? Leave a good tip.
If you boycott this place and they lose business, the owner isn't going to cut his own salary--he's going to fire somebody. So let this whiny idiocy go, pay the extra couple of cents for your luxury item, and take it as a sign that the law was a good idea--now the employees there are getting sick leave! Good for them, good for their customers! The system works!
Oh, and now that you know the boss is an asshole? Leave a good tip.
94
I never really had a reason to patronize Cherry Street Coffee when there are a variety of superior options with better hours all over Seattle, and I sure as hell have a reason to actively avoid them now.
95
All of this for 3 cents. Really Seattle? Easy for all of you who maybe working for companies who can afford to offer sick leave in the first place.
So many of these ugly comments are very typical Seattle-ite remarks - so totally involved in your own little world you cant see ast your own nose.
So many of these ugly comments are very typical Seattle-ite remarks - so totally involved in your own little world you cant see ast your own nose.
96
All of this for 3 cents. Really Seattle? Easy for all of you who maybe working for companies who can afford to offer sick leave in the first place.
So many of these ugly comments are very typical Seattle-ite remarks - so totally involved in your own little world you cant see past the end of your own nose.
So many of these ugly comments are very typical Seattle-ite remarks - so totally involved in your own little world you cant see past the end of your own nose.
97
@96: "All of this for 3 cents."
It would help if you actually read peoples posts before you responded.
It would help if you actually read peoples posts before you responded.
98
So fucking what if he is charging extra for sick leave and so fucking what if he points it out. Businesses will pass on costs to the customers. Sick leave is a good thing, the city was right in passing the ordinance, but it costs a lot and yes a lot of people do take sick time when they are not sick. EVERYONE knows people who fake an illness or do somthing stupid like stay up too late, drink too much and not feel well enough to go to work the next day. If people did not do that then sick leave would not cost so much. Like it or not he makes a good point.
99
all the misdirected anger in this thread took me from Viva La Revolution back to who gives a shit. They make a great cup of coffee, so I'm going back.
101
I don't mind paying an additional 1.5%, or .06 cents, on a coffee drink that costs $4.00, so that workers can get the sick leave they deserve. I can't believe I'm even wasting my time responding to this...
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