Slog Comments
Boy Scouts Delay Decision on Admitting Gay Members and Leaders
1
When you talk about how they should "grant equal rights to a minority" you make it sound like they're they Montgomery City Bus line. Like a public utility.
See long ago I accepted the Boy Scouts' claim that they're a private club, just like the Ku Klux Klan. They want to be a discriminatory club? Okie dokie. Just don't come around asking for my endorsement. Or any public recognition. I like it that way because I can write them off and not worry about what fucked up shit they get up to over in the Boy Scouts. To me this is them voting on whether they want to be part of America's mainstream or become further marginalized, and eventually forgotten.
If the BSA wants to be a bunch of fringe kooks, that's they're problem.
See long ago I accepted the Boy Scouts' claim that they're a private club, just like the Ku Klux Klan. They want to be a discriminatory club? Okie dokie. Just don't come around asking for my endorsement. Or any public recognition. I like it that way because I can write them off and not worry about what fucked up shit they get up to over in the Boy Scouts. To me this is them voting on whether they want to be part of America's mainstream or become further marginalized, and eventually forgotten.
If the BSA wants to be a bunch of fringe kooks, that's they're problem.
2
I'm sorry they're delaying, but as to your last line: though voting on gay rights is stupid and always used to mean further delay, didn't such votes just recently start having rather terrific outcomes, one after another?
3
@2 --
The thing about rights: they're rights. They're not privileges decided upon by whatever the majority happens to believe at the moment.
IIRC, rights are the unalienable endowment all men are given by their Creator(s).
Or some other kind of American History bullshit.
A right voted upon is not an unalienable endowment.
And, as @1 said, an entirely private organization does not have to respect or acknowledge the rights of anyone if they so decide.
The thing about rights: they're rights. They're not privileges decided upon by whatever the majority happens to believe at the moment.
IIRC, rights are the unalienable endowment all men are given by their Creator(s).
Or some other kind of American History bullshit.
A right voted upon is not an unalienable endowment.
And, as @1 said, an entirely private organization does not have to respect or acknowledge the rights of anyone if they so decide.
4
As an Eagle Scout, I am very disappointed in the Boy Scouts' delay of a decision to admit gay scouts. Looking back, I am sure there were gay kids in my Troop, but it really wasn't germane to the adventures and fun that we had. Many may point to the 'morally straight' in the Oath, but what is more righteous than standing up to discrimination? If they vote to discriminate, they are depriving a lot of kids the opportunity to learn the great lessons that are the core of scouting: honor, loyalty, service to community.
5
Can't wait for NOM to declare this a "victory" that their donation dollars achieved. Anything to keep those dirty dollars rolling in from the terrified and ignorant.
6
They're delaying it until the national meeting, which gives the religious nutcases in leadership plenty of time to make sure they can attend. Then, they will have a vote, at which it discrimination will be upheld, and they will say it was the will of their membership, and use all sorts of flowery language about Democracy and The American Way.
Pretty cowardly for an organization that supposedly promotes character.
Pretty cowardly for an organization that supposedly promotes character.
7
@3
It's fun to pretend that rights are facts of nature, like gravity. But they're not. They're laws like any other laws.
Some laws are easy to change, others are hard to change. There's a hierarchy of laws. Some are meta laws and some are meta meta laws. But in the end they all get created by voters, or by representatives of voters, or by appointees of representatives of voters. Or by tyrants. Or bureaucrats.
There are lots of different tools for making different kinds of laws, and some are better suited to one task than another.
All this hand-waving bullshit about "inalienable" and "rights" is just a rhetorical tactic, generally used to say "accept my interpretation of the law, not yours" and "this discussion is over!" It's a way of making people bow their heads and go along, rather than think. It's a way of avoiding supporting your argument with facts.
It's fun to pretend that rights are facts of nature, like gravity. But they're not. They're laws like any other laws.
Some laws are easy to change, others are hard to change. There's a hierarchy of laws. Some are meta laws and some are meta meta laws. But in the end they all get created by voters, or by representatives of voters, or by appointees of representatives of voters. Or by tyrants. Or bureaucrats.
There are lots of different tools for making different kinds of laws, and some are better suited to one task than another.
All this hand-waving bullshit about "inalienable" and "rights" is just a rhetorical tactic, generally used to say "accept my interpretation of the law, not yours" and "this discussion is over!" It's a way of making people bow their heads and go along, rather than think. It's a way of avoiding supporting your argument with facts.
8
@3, my only point is that it's not like there's reason to give up all hope for BSA just yet. Until a few days ago, who among us figured they'd be batting the notion around at all?
9
Scouting is an activity enjoyed by boys and girls all over the world. Rather than allow the bigots to taint scouting in this country it's well beyond time we force the BSA to embrace the principles of equality on which this country was founded.
The BSA is obviously betting that everyone will get distracted over the next couple months. Of course the other possibilities is that we are going to have months to plan competing gazillion gays and billion bigots marches and really turn up the heat.
The BSA is obviously betting that everyone will get distracted over the next couple months. Of course the other possibilities is that we are going to have months to plan competing gazillion gays and billion bigots marches and really turn up the heat.
11
I don't know, I think the longer they drag it out and the more they discuss it, the harder it will be for the bigots to keep the status quo. What the bigots really wanted was to cover it up and making it go away. Dragging it out and bringing it to the forefront of their national meeting is going to have the opposite effect.
Comments (11) RSS