Slog Comments
Grand Jury Refusers: So What Can I Do About It?
2
It's taking the Feds a different amount of time because they are pursuing charges for a different crime. Also this was an entirely avoidable situation, all they had to do was spend a day or two testifying and they would never have needed to go to prison. The fact is they probably did know something about the people who went around breaking windows and refused to testify against them. Defend vandals all you like, no one made them run around breaking stuff during the May Day protests, plenty of people protested peacefully, except the anarchists who were busy getting their jollies wreaking things for the hell of it. I have no sympathy for them.
3
Thanks for adding the other methods.
But, I should point out, snail mail is typically far more effective than email for making change, even if it's a postcard.
(yes, I know I brought it up when you had no email links)
But, I should point out, snail mail is typically far more effective than email for making change, even if it's a postcard.
(yes, I know I brought it up when you had no email links)
4
You know, they could ANSWER THE EFFING QUESTIONS the judge asked of them in an otherwise low-rent prosecution.
5
I read most of the attorney's response as "she wants to work out and finds it hard to do so"
I mean really, that's the best you could focus on? It hurts to do sit-ups?
I mean really, that's the best you could focus on? It hurts to do sit-ups?
6
No judge is going to read, nor care, what a bunch of people with no understanding of the law have to say about these dumb kids.
7
Oh, Fed-loving Slog commenters. You have once again outdone yourself in your lack of analysis, compassion, and general humanity.
9
@4 and since when do we live in Soviet Russia? Or Red China?
@6 how about posting those snail mail addresses?
@6 how about posting those snail mail addresses?
11
I'm glad that we're using the resources of our government to investigate social networks that might have been involved in petty vandalism. Why is the grand jury focused on this and why do they think that these people's social group is important? Who's trying to make a career out of this? The grand jury has no evidence that any of them know anything about the May Day events. This is another "Are you now or have you ever been..." sort of situation.
Those held have no recourse beyond hoping that the court will lose interest or show mercy. Principle is great and all but the screws of compliance are beginning to twist.
Those held have no recourse beyond hoping that the court will lose interest or show mercy. Principle is great and all but the screws of compliance are beginning to twist.
12
@7 pretty much sums it up --- and if Brendan is still under the impression we exist in a "democracy" and writing one's congress critters, or this matter, truly accomplishes anything, he really is beyond stupidity!
Do a Dorner . . .
Do a Dorner . . .
13
It would seem to me that their incarceration is a clear violation of the 5th Amendment:
"No person shall be ... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"
Totally fucked up that they can be put in frickkin solitary for not answering questions about who knows who in whatever social network. Clear example of the state's overreach.
@12 - I'm sorry Mr. sgt_doom. I appreciate your viewpoints and information, but saying that the apparent solution is to "Do a Dorner..." is totally bananas. So we all should shoot a few people, probably some cops?, and then lead the police on a massive manhunt? How will that effect positive change again? You've really lost me.
Things can and do change for the positive in this country. I recognize the clear threats to the liberty of the place that, among others, incoming immigrants recognize as the one of the freest countries in the world. We have our issues and hypocrisies, and we have our work cut out for us, but "Doing a Dorner" is not a useful answer or solution.
"No person shall be ... compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"
Totally fucked up that they can be put in frickkin solitary for not answering questions about who knows who in whatever social network. Clear example of the state's overreach.
@12 - I'm sorry Mr. sgt_doom. I appreciate your viewpoints and information, but saying that the apparent solution is to "Do a Dorner..." is totally bananas. So we all should shoot a few people, probably some cops?, and then lead the police on a massive manhunt? How will that effect positive change again? You've really lost me.
Things can and do change for the positive in this country. I recognize the clear threats to the liberty of the place that, among others, incoming immigrants recognize as the one of the freest countries in the world. We have our issues and hypocrisies, and we have our work cut out for us, but "Doing a Dorner" is not a useful answer or solution.
15
@11: Oh, and a prosecutor attacking those who have vandalized banks is probably an easy way to ensure they get plenty of campaign contributions when they decide to run for office. If that prosecution falls apart because these people won't cave then the banksters will be angry.
16
This situation of jailing people with no charges is utterly ridiculous. It is simply intended to instill fear in people to stop them from resisting all that is wrong in this country. It won't work. I spent 4 months in jail for my first civil disobedience against the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant in 1982. I was put in a county jail with a federal contract so prisoners "committed" a spectrum of crimes, mostly economic, as well as many seriously mentally ill when Reagan dumped people with severe problems onto the streets. The cruelty back then was bad, but i know that in these times of corporatized criminalization, people are seriously mistreated. Those comments displaying such lack of compassion perhaps will soon know what it is like as citizens continue to be marginalized as poverty increases. Some states are already jailing those who can't pay rent. These young people committed no crimes. None. Expecting them to compromise their admirable principles is in line with the same mentality that is complicit with the growing police state impacting all of us, some more immediately than others.
17
They obviously want to be in jail. And you don't get put in solitary unless you've screwed up pretty badly, because from the prison's point of view solitary is expensive (more staffing) and a hassle (more surveillance). Notice that the Stranger didn't ask why they're in solitary, nor did the lawyers say why. Of course, once that gets discussed, they'll come up with some bullshit story, and of course no one will ever dare commit some real journalism and start asking other inmates or guards.
Their fifth amendment rights haven't been violated. That's what immunity is all about. And it's not just breaking a few windows. There's an anarchist network in the Northwest that has done many millions of dollars worth of damage all over the place. That's what the investigation is about, but the Stranger won't talk about that, either.
Reading the Stranger is sort of like when the Russians would scrutinize pictures of officials in Pravda for hints of what was really going on. You look through the propaganda to parse the subtleties. A good tactic is to see what the story did not cover, because the writer was too afraid to bring it up.
Their fifth amendment rights haven't been violated. That's what immunity is all about. And it's not just breaking a few windows. There's an anarchist network in the Northwest that has done many millions of dollars worth of damage all over the place. That's what the investigation is about, but the Stranger won't talk about that, either.
Reading the Stranger is sort of like when the Russians would scrutinize pictures of officials in Pravda for hints of what was really going on. You look through the propaganda to parse the subtleties. A good tactic is to see what the story did not cover, because the writer was too afraid to bring it up.
18
Some of the grand jury resisters were immediately put in solitary. Your logic is jammed by ignorance.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012…
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012…
19
@17: The investigation is about a prosecutor who wants to reassure of the banksters and protect political careers. That is all that this is about.
20
@17 - "that's what immunity is all about". Pray tell, please explain more. What "immunity" allows the state to deprive someone of "life, liberty and property without due process of law". There was no due process here, there have been no crimes and no charges, yet they are deprived of their liberty. This is punitive incarceration, with no crime.
There is an "anarchist network" in the northwest? Really now. I'm sure they are very, very well organized (/snark). Is there not also a "international banker's network" that has done many BILLIONS of damage over the last 5 years? Why are not many bankers now sitting in solitary? Gravity of crime does not appear to be the root issue here.
There is an "anarchist network" in the northwest? Really now. I'm sure they are very, very well organized (/snark). Is there not also a "international banker's network" that has done many BILLIONS of damage over the last 5 years? Why are not many bankers now sitting in solitary? Gravity of crime does not appear to be the root issue here.
21
They are charged with contempt of court, and their refusal to testify is an admission of guilt to that charge. They are in prison until they stop breaking the law. It's their choice to stay in jail. Jailing people for contempt of court wasn't invented for these folks. It's centuries old established law in this country.
23
@ 17. Follow some of the links. The attorneys have asked but say they haven't gotten clear answers from the FDC.
24
Let's clear a few things up, the people the feds are going after were the people who damaged federal property (the courthouse), not the "banks" as some tin foil hat wearing commenters would have you think.
Second, they were provided with immunity, so that they could testify without implicating themselves, they chose not to, it's their choice to be in prison right now as a protest, they could leave if they'd just answer some questions for a judge.
Third, this so called "principled and noble cause" they're defending was breaking a bunch of windows which caused tens of thousands of dollars in damages that we're now all paying off in our federal taxes. They're not bringing down the system, they're a bunch of immature lunatics who imagine they're going to create change by shattering the windows of the big bad government and corporations.
Second, they were provided with immunity, so that they could testify without implicating themselves, they chose not to, it's their choice to be in prison right now as a protest, they could leave if they'd just answer some questions for a judge.
Third, this so called "principled and noble cause" they're defending was breaking a bunch of windows which caused tens of thousands of dollars in damages that we're now all paying off in our federal taxes. They're not bringing down the system, they're a bunch of immature lunatics who imagine they're going to create change by shattering the windows of the big bad government and corporations.
25
#18, are you too stupid to link to the story? I don't want to read the entire contents of your favorite magazine.
#20, the "immunity" is immunity from prosecution for any self-incriminating statements they might make. That removes any 5th amendment issues. Of course, you already knew that. They still refused to talk, so that put them in contempt of court. Which you, and they, and their lawyers also knew. So you can knock it off with the faux-ignorant act here.
Yes, there's an international banker network. So what? We're supposed to call off every investigation until your hobby horse is attended to? Sorry, but that's not the way it works. But then you know that, too. And you also know that there's an anarchist network in this part of the country, and that they've done a hell of a lot more than break a few windows.
I have no sympathy for these punks, and hope the federal prosecutors will keep squeezing them for as long as it takes. They should impanel grand jury after grand jury after grand jury after grand jury, and if they won't testify then they can go to jail after jail after jail after jail. And if you don't like it, you can post comment after comment after comment after comment.
#20, the "immunity" is immunity from prosecution for any self-incriminating statements they might make. That removes any 5th amendment issues. Of course, you already knew that. They still refused to talk, so that put them in contempt of court. Which you, and they, and their lawyers also knew. So you can knock it off with the faux-ignorant act here.
Yes, there's an international banker network. So what? We're supposed to call off every investigation until your hobby horse is attended to? Sorry, but that's not the way it works. But then you know that, too. And you also know that there's an anarchist network in this part of the country, and that they've done a hell of a lot more than break a few windows.
I have no sympathy for these punks, and hope the federal prosecutors will keep squeezing them for as long as it takes. They should impanel grand jury after grand jury after grand jury after grand jury, and if they won't testify then they can go to jail after jail after jail after jail. And if you don't like it, you can post comment after comment after comment after comment.
26
What would be even better would be if they'd do what a few commenters on the Slog have suggested, and claim not to remember anything. Depending on who else has said what to prosecutors, that could open them up to federal felony charges of perjury, conspiracy, and obstruction of justice. Then they could do hard time, and we could really have a good laugh.
29
"We have ways of making you talk!" Thumbscrews or isolation cages; this insane. That someone should be locked up simply because he or she minded his own business and declined to participate in some prosecutor's investigation---no trial or conviction? What the hell is wrong with you people?
If you think someone has done wrong, you allow him or her to face the accuser in a fair trial before a jury of peers; you don't fucking torture until compliance is achieved.
If you think someone has done wrong, you allow him or her to face the accuser in a fair trial before a jury of peers; you don't fucking torture until compliance is achieved.
34
@33
Unfortunately, that piece has no original reporting in it-- it's just a collection of quotes publicly available on the internet strung together with polemic.
Of all the paid journalists still working on this story, none seem to have gotten any closer to answering the question, and I'm guessing most of them* are no longer actively investigating the Leah Lynn-Plante side of the tale.
* Whether or not this includes The Stranger's Theater Editor, I have no idea.
Unfortunately, that piece has no original reporting in it-- it's just a collection of quotes publicly available on the internet strung together with polemic.
Of all the paid journalists still working on this story, none seem to have gotten any closer to answering the question, and I'm guessing most of them* are no longer actively investigating the Leah Lynn-Plante side of the tale.
* Whether or not this includes The Stranger's Theater Editor, I have no idea.
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