Slog Comments
Slog Bible Study Bonus: The Gospel of Redemption
1
This is what happens when a single fragment of logic, a shred of humanity, cuts off an inner dialogue that has been forced on you. You suddenly see the real world staring you in the face. And it's far, far more awesome than any religion.
2
The utter folly and ridiculousness of anyone setting himself up as the emissary, proxy, or arm of god is as blindingly obvious as the sun to anyone not already in the tank.
If you think you know something about being a "good" person, show by example and live your convictions; word will spread without your having to harangue other people.
If you think you know something about being a "good" person, show by example and live your convictions; word will spread without your having to harangue other people.
3
I rejected Catholic doctrine at eight after being told that unbaptized babies and the heathens who had "never heard the word of God" (Catholic theology) couldn't go to heaven.
They'd br relegated to Limbo, where they'd never see the face of God.
"Heathens" who had heard of Catholicism and hadn't converted, would be sent to hell.
I remember thinking that not only wasn't fair, it didn't make sense.
If there was a God, He couldn't possibly be that petty and picayune.
Didn't take me 40 years to figure that out, either.
They'd br relegated to Limbo, where they'd never see the face of God.
"Heathens" who had heard of Catholicism and hadn't converted, would be sent to hell.
I remember thinking that not only wasn't fair, it didn't make sense.
If there was a God, He couldn't possibly be that petty and picayune.
Didn't take me 40 years to figure that out, either.
5
This is one of my favorite episodes. Last summer I was driving from Colorado to Mississippi, and stopped overnight in Tulsa. I spent Sunday morning there driving around, drinking coffee, and listening to this story one more time.
I was raised Unitarian Universalist. This story didn't teach me anything about Pentecostal or evangelical doctrines that I didn't already know. But it renewed my hope that we can find common ground. Still does.
I was raised Unitarian Universalist. This story didn't teach me anything about Pentecostal or evangelical doctrines that I didn't already know. But it renewed my hope that we can find common ground. Still does.
6
@ 3, I didn't hear that myself until I was going through confirmation, and it led me to make the same rejection. That, and the fact that basically everyone in the Old Testament who had done God's work was condemned by Original Sin, since there was no such thing as baptism before that point. (I may have gotten that one wrong, but I didn't stick around long enough to find out if that's what they actually believed.)
7
Originally, in America, more than twice as many people believed in Hell as believed in our official religions.
Now, fewer believe in Hell than believe that the GOP is not an al-Qaeda terrorist offshoot determined to destroy America.
Now, fewer believe in Hell than believe that the GOP is not an al-Qaeda terrorist offshoot determined to destroy America.
8
I've always been bemused at the notion of Hell. What? Failure to achieve Heaven wasn't a threatening enough concept to keep the sheeples in the fold, so the sheeple-herders needed to escalate and cobble up a formal Hell?
No way in hell, to coin a phrase, is the concept of Hell compatible with the notion of a loving God. So, paradox alert.
I don't even see how empowering an imaginary Satan is compatible with monotheism. For all their talk of Satan, I often wonder if certain denominations aren't spending more time being in awe of Satan than of God, in effect worshiping the big red imaginary bastard, elevating him to the status of another godhead.
As for my own denomination, I'm pretty thankful, and often amazed, that it manages to function just fine without a formal dogma.
No way in hell, to coin a phrase, is the concept of Hell compatible with the notion of a loving God. So, paradox alert.
I don't even see how empowering an imaginary Satan is compatible with monotheism. For all their talk of Satan, I often wonder if certain denominations aren't spending more time being in awe of Satan than of God, in effect worshiping the big red imaginary bastard, elevating him to the status of another godhead.
As for my own denomination, I'm pretty thankful, and often amazed, that it manages to function just fine without a formal dogma.
9
I always chuckle when I hear people say, "Why are you GOD allowing this?" Well because have you ever tried to tell anyone that the way they are living is wrong? They fuck all over you and call you names. God, who ever she or he is, is no idiot. And remember, it's NOT God who is committing the evil. Put the blame where the blame belongs.
There is no such place as "hell" the Bible does not teach a literal physical place like that. Death is compared to sleep in the Bible. "Hell" is a wicked tool, created by people.
There is no such place as "hell" the Bible does not teach a literal physical place like that. Death is compared to sleep in the Bible. "Hell" is a wicked tool, created by people.
10
"Fascinating and touching" isn't often what you aim at with your posts, so I gotta say, when you do it, you really do it right. Fucking outstanding, sir.
11
I listened to this a few years ago. I think TAL reran it. Pretty sad that all his underling pastors left him and a good chunk of his parishioners did the same. I had two evangelical friends who when I asked if Mother Teresa and Gandhi were going to hell, they said "yep." I caught up with these two recently and I thought they may have grown up but nope, they were talking about celebrating Jeeezus when they went to Chik-Fil-A during the gay marriage hubbub. You can't change stupid.
12
@6, it bothered many medieval theologians as well, leading to the doctrine of the Harrowing of Hell. Supposedly, that's where Jesus was for the three days he was dead...releasing the righteous unbaptized. It's a fairly common topic for quite a bit of impressive artwork actually.
13
I remember hearing this years ago. I think of it from time to time, and I remembered this story the other day when I read about the two women who left Westboro Church.
14
I've heard this episode twice now, and I still can't bring myself to feel bad for the guy. He got rich and famous selling fear and lies. Then, he claims god spoke to him directly and told him there's no hell, so he lost all of his sheeple. Now he has a sad. Big deal.
15
To me, that bit of doctrine always seemed like a darn good argument against missionary work.
"Heathens" who had heard of Catholicism and hadn't converted, would be sent to hell.
To me, that bit of doctrine always seemed like a darn good argument against missionary work.
16
Ten Commandments
No gods, no heroes. Just people.
All life is sacred
This life and this world are enough
Life your life as much as you can. It is a mistake to do otherwise
Be a lantern unto yourself.
Try to be happy
Everyone has a responsibility to help everybody else.
Do not seek pity
Never trust anyone who tries to coerce you or control you, either by fear, or by guilt, or by promising you what they cannot deliver.
It is important to do what you are good at. Focus on one thing at a time, and do it better than anybody else.
No gods, no heroes. Just people.
All life is sacred
This life and this world are enough
Life your life as much as you can. It is a mistake to do otherwise
Be a lantern unto yourself.
Try to be happy
Everyone has a responsibility to help everybody else.
Do not seek pity
Never trust anyone who tries to coerce you or control you, either by fear, or by guilt, or by promising you what they cannot deliver.
It is important to do what you are good at. Focus on one thing at a time, and do it better than anybody else.
17
I loved this episode! It made me sad that he has a much smaller microphone now that he actually has something constructive to say, though.
18
You can tell who listened to the program and who didn't by the comments. Pearson never expresses sadness; his work now is different, but as good for him and his family as when he was famous. And, as a fallen-away Quaker, I can certainly understand people who describe their internal dialog as the voice of God.
20
19,
Christianity can exist without a hell. It then becomes a matter of the individual seeking to become a better person through faith.
Christianity can exist without a hell. It then becomes a matter of the individual seeking to become a better person through faith.
21
If Goldy will quit trying to parse Christian sects, I'll quit trying to figure out the differences between Jewish orthodox, conservative, reform, and reconstructionists, and will stop asking myself why the right-wing Likud has such a hold on American foreign policy.
22
@19
It depends on how you see hell -- primarily as a literal supernatural thing, or primarily as metaphor. Evangelicals are very literal-minded, and their thinking has informed the pop culture view of hell.
But another way to look at it is that hell and heaven are both present now, in the world, and you can participate in creating one or the other. I think the latter is actually closer to the original message as intended.
It depends on how you see hell -- primarily as a literal supernatural thing, or primarily as metaphor. Evangelicals are very literal-minded, and their thinking has informed the pop culture view of hell.
But another way to look at it is that hell and heaven are both present now, in the world, and you can participate in creating one or the other. I think the latter is actually closer to the original message as intended.
23
@19 Maybe it depends how you define Christianity.
Jesus' message was all about treating people as equals, elevating the downtrodden, healing the sick, practicing peace, telling the truth, not being a fucking greedy bastard, living a simple life and, optionally, finding a deeper spiritual meaning in it if you're capable of it.
As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." This is true, to the extent that most of them are focused elsewhere.
However, different denominations focus on different things. Some are less involved with Dogma and instead go back to the earliest stories. Equality, Peace, Simplicity, Truth/Integrity may be completely compatible with a secular life, but there are those who find it essential for seeking the Spirit, and choose to concentrate on those teachings.
Jesus' message was all about treating people as equals, elevating the downtrodden, healing the sick, practicing peace, telling the truth, not being a fucking greedy bastard, living a simple life and, optionally, finding a deeper spiritual meaning in it if you're capable of it.
As Ghandi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." This is true, to the extent that most of them are focused elsewhere.
However, different denominations focus on different things. Some are less involved with Dogma and instead go back to the earliest stories. Equality, Peace, Simplicity, Truth/Integrity may be completely compatible with a secular life, but there are those who find it essential for seeking the Spirit, and choose to concentrate on those teachings.
24
This broadcast was lifechanging for me when I heard it about 7 years ago. It still gets me. Unless you've been raised in that kind of evangelical world, you don't fully realize the hold that hell has on you. The fear of it, constantly there in your subconscience, is hard to describe. But once you've been shown that fear is based on nothing, it is so freeing and such a relief- you cannot believe you ever fell for something so dumb. Don't feel sorry for Carson- he's got another congregation and he preaches the gospel of inclusion- but don't mock the path to freedom he gave alot of us out there.
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