Slog Comments
A Pastor Would Like to Address the Controversy over His Events that "Mock" the "Orientals" and "Blacks"
1
I am so confused by all of that that I can't even understand whether or not I'm supposed to be offended. So, whatever, I guess...
4
This is a pretty good snapshot of Seattle: deeply repressed racial tensions masked through mockery. I assume they'll all dance, have fun, eat, make fun of people to their faces and pretend that it's okay because "NOT RACIST!!" like anyone would expect a fine Seattle-based establishment to do.
Then they'll come online and anonypost on Slog in any post referencing non-white folks or gay marriage or similar.
Then they'll come online and anonypost on Slog in any post referencing non-white folks or gay marriage or similar.
5
People of various ethnicities hosting events to share and maybe poke a little fun at their own traditions. Nothing to see here except a badly-designed poster. (I knew Mr. Finley briefly, years ago. I no longer share his beliefs, but he was always a nice fella.)
7
Eh, I could get worked up about this, but why? My political correctness muscles are tired this morning. Probably sounds way more offensive and exciting than it actually is.
8
"Oriental" is only offensive to Americans. It's not offensive in the UK, where it is used to distinguish Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc from people from the Indian subcontinent, who are more commonly called Asians in Britain. There is no "Asian = people, Oriental = rugs" problem in Europe.
11
"As a sort of poke in the eye to the over pc sensitivity to stuff like this"
See folks? This statement has never been made by a sincere bigot, ever.
See folks? This statement has never been made by a sincere bigot, ever.
12
As the non-Occidental half of my household recently pointed out: far-eastern ("Oriental") cultures don't use -- or make -- rugs. When those items first entered the western marketplace, the Orient was closer to the Atlantic than the Pacific.
Also, since he asked and I'm Scandinavian, there's no "a" in "lefse."
Also, since he asked and I'm Scandinavian, there's no "a" in "lefse."
13
I think the primary problem with this is one of understanding intent. Within the youth group, everyone understands the intent of these events -- any mockery is directed towards the stereotypes and the people (racists) that really believe them. But, in the broader community, people don't know the intent, and so it can come off as racist.
I think it's similar with jokes about racial/gender/LGBT stereotypes. It might be okay to mock the stereotypes with your close friends, because they understand that what you're really doing is mocking the racists/sexists/homophobes. But, any time there's someone present who might not 100% understand your intentions, it's usually a bad idea.
With a public event (and a public poster).... I probably would have erred on the side of "not everyone's going to understand our intent."
I think it's similar with jokes about racial/gender/LGBT stereotypes. It might be okay to mock the stereotypes with your close friends, because they understand that what you're really doing is mocking the racists/sexists/homophobes. But, any time there's someone present who might not 100% understand your intentions, it's usually a bad idea.
With a public event (and a public poster).... I probably would have erred on the side of "not everyone's going to understand our intent."
14
Fuck PC, and all of you crying about this. People are just too damned sensitive and easily offended. Grow up and get a sense of humor, America.
15
Perhaps instead of trying really hard to decide if we are/should be offended, we should just consider if it makes us feel bad, and if not, just accept that outcome.
16
@8: No, they just call them "wogs" instead.
Contextually, we don't live in the fucking UK. We live where "oriental" itself is and has been used pejoratively.
Contextually, we don't live in the fucking UK. We live where "oriental" itself is and has been used pejoratively.
18
"It started a couple of years ago when we did an Ethnic Night where people came dressed representing their ethnicity."
I mean, this is cool, but geez, the framing and followup is really poorly handled.
Also of interest to the thread discussion-
http://english.stackexchange.com/questio…
I mean, this is cool, but geez, the framing and followup is really poorly handled.
Also of interest to the thread discussion-
http://english.stackexchange.com/questio…
20
I think the whole issue with angry people could have been avoided by using a better-designed poster that makes it obvious that these are ethnic minorities poking fun at themselves. For starters, maybe instead of "Mock The Differences", "Mock Our Differences" would have worked better.
26
Dominic -
Craig Finley is not at Calvary Temple. He's at Calvary Fellowship in MLT. Calvary Temple != Calvary Fellowship.
Craig Finley is not at Calvary Temple. He's at Calvary Fellowship in MLT. Calvary Temple != Calvary Fellowship.
27
"Mr. Hanky the Christmas Poo. Stifling with over-the-top rigidity"
What ever in hell does that mean?
What ever in hell does that mean?
29
I used to go to a poker night with a very diverse group- a Jew, Italian, African-American, Irish, Latino, Pacific Islander, etc., etc. The major running jokes were about the various stereotypes and it was all in good fun. The Italian guy had a huge flag on his wall that he was so proud of and one night the Mexican guy brought over a big pic of the eagle and snake and slapped it on there.
So anyway I have no problem with the "ethnic" but the "nite" I CANNOT STAND. "Nite" "tonite" those aren't real words people! And they're only one letter shorter than the properly spelled word! Just don't do it! It's not worth it!
/rant
So anyway I have no problem with the "ethnic" but the "nite" I CANNOT STAND. "Nite" "tonite" those aren't real words people! And they're only one letter shorter than the properly spelled word! Just don't do it! It's not worth it!
/rant
31
Why is serving Lutefisk on Scandinavian night the place where he thinks they may be "stepping a bit over the line of racial insensitivity?" Has he not seen the poster? Referring to any member of your group as the "token" anything is probably closer to that line, IMO.
32
Oh, those silly ethnics. Let's all indulge them as they pretend that their culture has anything of value. It's only one night, after all. Then we can go back to being Americans, where we don't have culture at all: we're simply right about everything and that's that.
33
I actually go to this church (which is actually called Calvary Fellowship, not Calvary Temple, which is an unaffiliated church in our area). I don't go to this particular group, it's the highschool group, but I'm part of the college/post-college group called CREW. I can understand the confusion over the poster, and I can understand people who (from the outside) would get a little worked up over it. I think it would help some people to know that this poster was more intended as internal advertisement to people who are already involved with Calvary than for public promotion. The person who took the picture, which created a small stir on Facebook because they linked to several people from the church directly, was taken by someone walking through our property on the way to a library. To the best of my knowledge, this was only visible from a parking lot for the church itself in a side area used for some of the smaller groups. Not that I think it's something to be ashamed of or that anyone did anything wrong in the first place, but that might be a little helpful in understanding what's going on.
Calvary is a great group of people. I know Craig personally, he's an awesome guy. I'm glad to call him my pastor. He loves pushing the boundaries sometimes for the sake of humor, I'll admit (and I'm pretty sure he would too), but would you prefer he be a starchy characterture of a pastor? I sure wouldn't. He's true to his personality, and he doesn't pretend to be the Pope or think he's better than everyone else. He's real, and he cares about people. All people. What else can you ask for?
I'm also friends with a lot of the leaders who are over this stuff, and I know what they're like. If there was any legitimate racism around, I wouldn't be a part of it in the first place. We're a big family who love each other and care about each other and have community. But we're also an open, welcoming family. Jesus taught constantly about loving people no matter who they are, what they believe, or where they're at in life. We take that seriously. If you've don't believe it, drop by CREW (Sunday nights at 7. Come by early, I'll probably be in the coffee bar making free espresso drinks. Ask around for the dude named Sparky, you'll find me quickly). You can call me crazy, you can tell me I have a dog's name, I'll laugh, and then I'll introduce you to all the friends I have there who have changed my life because of the acceptance and love I've found there. I'll introduce you to my friend in art college, my friend who is training to be an naturopathic doctor, my friend who works in a women's shelter helping homeless and abused women and children, my friend who works in a school, my aspiring poet friend, my chef friend... and a couple hundred more. I'm far from perfect, and they accept me. We don't all believe the same thing, we all aren't even sure what we believe, but we're all welcome, all accepted, all loved. To me, that's awesome.
Thanks to The Stranger for the fair story. I know it's probably funner to chuck a rock and hope a bunch of pissed off Bible thumpers biggots will try to call down lightening on you or something. ;) We'll be talking about "The time The Stranger talked about us" for years to come.
More...
Calvary is a great group of people. I know Craig personally, he's an awesome guy. I'm glad to call him my pastor. He loves pushing the boundaries sometimes for the sake of humor, I'll admit (and I'm pretty sure he would too), but would you prefer he be a starchy characterture of a pastor? I sure wouldn't. He's true to his personality, and he doesn't pretend to be the Pope or think he's better than everyone else. He's real, and he cares about people. All people. What else can you ask for?
I'm also friends with a lot of the leaders who are over this stuff, and I know what they're like. If there was any legitimate racism around, I wouldn't be a part of it in the first place. We're a big family who love each other and care about each other and have community. But we're also an open, welcoming family. Jesus taught constantly about loving people no matter who they are, what they believe, or where they're at in life. We take that seriously. If you've don't believe it, drop by CREW (Sunday nights at 7. Come by early, I'll probably be in the coffee bar making free espresso drinks. Ask around for the dude named Sparky, you'll find me quickly). You can call me crazy, you can tell me I have a dog's name, I'll laugh, and then I'll introduce you to all the friends I have there who have changed my life because of the acceptance and love I've found there. I'll introduce you to my friend in art college, my friend who is training to be an naturopathic doctor, my friend who works in a women's shelter helping homeless and abused women and children, my friend who works in a school, my aspiring poet friend, my chef friend... and a couple hundred more. I'm far from perfect, and they accept me. We don't all believe the same thing, we all aren't even sure what we believe, but we're all welcome, all accepted, all loved. To me, that's awesome.
Thanks to The Stranger for the fair story. I know it's probably funner to chuck a rock and hope a bunch of pissed off Bible thumpers biggots will try to call down lightening on you or something. ;) We'll be talking about "The time The Stranger talked about us" for years to come.
34
I actually go to this church (which is actually called Calvary Fellowship, not Calvary Temple, which is an unaffiliated church in our area). I don't go to this particular group, it's the highschool group, but I'm part of the college/post-college group called CREW. I can understand the confusion over the poster, and I can understand people who (from the outside) would get a little worked up over it. I think it would help some people to know that this poster was more intended as internal advertisement to people who are already involved with Calvary than for public promotion. The person who took the picture, which created a small stir on Facebook because they linked to several people from the church directly, was taken by someone walking through our property on the way to a library. To the best of my knowledge, this was only visible from a parking lot for the church itself in a side area used for some of the smaller groups. Not that I think it's something to be ashamed of or that anyone did anything wrong in the first place, but that might be a little helpful in understanding what's going on.
Calvary is a great group of people. I know Craig personally, he's an awesome guy. I'm glad to call him my pastor. He loves pushing the boundaries sometimes for the sake of humor, I'll admit (and I'm pretty sure he would too), but would you prefer he be a starchy characterture of a pastor? I sure wouldn't. He's true to his personality, and he doesn't pretend to be the Pope or think he's better than everyone else. He's real, and he cares about people. All people. What else can you ask for?
I'm also friends with a lot of the leaders who are over this stuff, and I know what they're like. If there was any legitimate racism around, I wouldn't be a part of it in the first place. We're a big family who love each other and care about each other and have community. But we're also an open, welcoming family. Jesus taught constantly about loving people no matter who they are, what they believe, or where they're at in life. We take that seriously. If you've don't believe it, drop by CREW (Sunday nights at 7. Come by early, I'll probably be in the coffee bar making free espresso drinks. Ask around for the dude named Sparky, you'll find me quickly). You can call me crazy, you can tell me I have a dog's name, I'll laugh, and then I'll introduce you to all the friends I have there who have changed my life because of the acceptance and love I've found there. I'll introduce you to my friend in art college, my friend who is training to be an naturopathic doctor, my friend who works in a women's shelter helping homeless and abused women and children, my friend who works in a school, my aspiring poet friend, my chef friend... and a couple hundred more. I'm far from perfect, and they accept me. We don't all believe the same thing, we all aren't even sure what we believe, but we're all welcome, all accepted, all loved. To me, that's awesome.
Thanks to The Stranger for the fair story. I know it's probably funner to chuck a rock and hope a bunch of pissed off Bible thumpers biggots will try to call down lightening on you or something. ;) We'll be talking about "The time The Stranger talked about us" for years to come.
More...
Calvary is a great group of people. I know Craig personally, he's an awesome guy. I'm glad to call him my pastor. He loves pushing the boundaries sometimes for the sake of humor, I'll admit (and I'm pretty sure he would too), but would you prefer he be a starchy characterture of a pastor? I sure wouldn't. He's true to his personality, and he doesn't pretend to be the Pope or think he's better than everyone else. He's real, and he cares about people. All people. What else can you ask for?
I'm also friends with a lot of the leaders who are over this stuff, and I know what they're like. If there was any legitimate racism around, I wouldn't be a part of it in the first place. We're a big family who love each other and care about each other and have community. But we're also an open, welcoming family. Jesus taught constantly about loving people no matter who they are, what they believe, or where they're at in life. We take that seriously. If you've don't believe it, drop by CREW (Sunday nights at 7. Come by early, I'll probably be in the coffee bar making free espresso drinks. Ask around for the dude named Sparky, you'll find me quickly). You can call me crazy, you can tell me I have a dog's name, I'll laugh, and then I'll introduce you to all the friends I have there who have changed my life because of the acceptance and love I've found there. I'll introduce you to my friend in art college, my friend who is training to be an naturopathic doctor, my friend who works in a women's shelter helping homeless and abused women and children, my friend who works in a school, my aspiring poet friend, my chef friend... and a couple hundred more. I'm far from perfect, and they accept me. We don't all believe the same thing, we all aren't even sure what we believe, but we're all welcome, all accepted, all loved. To me, that's awesome.
Thanks to The Stranger for the fair story. I know it's probably funner to chuck a rock and hope a bunch of pissed off Bible thumpers biggots will try to call down lightening on you or something. ;) We'll be talking about "The time The Stranger talked about us" for years to come.
35
I'm Korean and I go to the church. This doesn't offend me so how does this offend others?! Pastor Craig is a mix of everything too! Look, if he was doing this cause he was actually racist, obviously a no. It's definitely unique and I understand why it might be controversial, but I'm going tomorrow!
36
I've known pastor Craig for years and know that he doesn't have a racist bone in his body! At Calvary Fellowship we Celebrate the different Gifts of the Spirit, which we have received through the Holy Spirit! And if you were to attend Calvary you would see that we have great love and a respect for each other and we not only celebrate our gifts but our differences as well. Life would be pretty boring if we all had the same gift and nothing different to be proud of. If you don't think that you're worth celebrating, then you haven't come to understand the love of Christ who died for yours and my sins! Let the Celebration begin!
God Bless!
God Bless!
37
Craig is probably the nicest guy you will ever meet, and one of the funniest. Often his humor is just as the advert. poster suggests, and not for everyone, but FUNNY. C'mon Seattle, are you really that uptight?? I think if all church going types/politicians were as great as Craig, the world would be a much better place. And, I'm not just saying that, he's been a huge positive influence in my life over the past several decades. Stop by Calvary sometime and say Hi, I guarantee you'll love the bald Filipino-Irishman as much as I do.
38
I am offended at this kind of event and there should never be an event like this in a church. It would never occur to me that a Church would host such a thing. We are all created equal and our LORD died for us all! We are all lost without HIM and HE is the only one who can save us.
The fact that this church thinks this is ok is quite scary! I would rethink what they think is fun and actually have an event that includes everyone. This is very backwards and wrong. I hope they have their eyes opened to the truth. Excluding others is wrong!!! God is No respecter of persons. HE loves us all!
The fact that this church thinks this is ok is quite scary! I would rethink what they think is fun and actually have an event that includes everyone. This is very backwards and wrong. I hope they have their eyes opened to the truth. Excluding others is wrong!!! God is No respecter of persons. HE loves us all!
40
I've never been accused of being PC and I make fun of myself and others at times. BUT, if we are going to celebrate our differences, I think mocking is a poor way to do it. Magnify our unity and varied beauties not stereotypes that stir anger. The anger is stirred for good reason. The stereotypes often DON'T rightly represent that ethnic culture or it is a reminder of abuse or oppression, which is why they cause offense. It is MISrepresentation, NOT representative of that group. No group of people wants represented that way.
I grew up in a culturally diverse setting and my family is culturally diverse: African, Asian, European and other decent. I am neither PC nor easily offended but this bothers me because it comes across as DISrespectful. There are many ways to acknowledge, embrace and celebrate our differences without being PC and yet without mocking or being offensive. You don’t have to be PC to not offend and you don’t have to be stuffy to show respect. There is much in between those extremes.
As Christian, we are exhorted to edify others and to not offend and cause others to stumble even if that means giving up something , we as Christians have the freedom to do. “All things are lawful but not all are profitable.” If you feel people lack a sense of humor and just make too big of a deal over it, well those are the people you are called to minister to by being tender hearted and gentle with them. Not by pushing the boundaries to see how far you can take it to make a point and make people laugh.
I’m an outsider and don’t see the whole picture but from what I see, could use modifying.
I grew up in a culturally diverse setting and my family is culturally diverse: African, Asian, European and other decent. I am neither PC nor easily offended but this bothers me because it comes across as DISrespectful. There are many ways to acknowledge, embrace and celebrate our differences without being PC and yet without mocking or being offensive. You don’t have to be PC to not offend and you don’t have to be stuffy to show respect. There is much in between those extremes.
As Christian, we are exhorted to edify others and to not offend and cause others to stumble even if that means giving up something , we as Christians have the freedom to do. “All things are lawful but not all are profitable.” If you feel people lack a sense of humor and just make too big of a deal over it, well those are the people you are called to minister to by being tender hearted and gentle with them. Not by pushing the boundaries to see how far you can take it to make a point and make people laugh.
I’m an outsider and don’t see the whole picture but from what I see, could use modifying.
41
Don't you love the wishful thinking that undergirds the reasoning of anti-PC assholes? As if racism/sexism/homophobia have already been thoroughly transcended and those still offended by jokes involving any one of them are just locked in the past? It doesn't make you progressive to think we live in a Post-Racial Society, it makes you either foolishly naïve (at best), a moron (neutral), or a disingenuous douchebag trying to hide your bigotry in glib South Park "humor" (at worst, and exactly the case with a lot of people on this thread).
42
I'm confused why people who are not involved are getting so up in arms about this? If an ethnic group wants to have an evening celebrating and sharing their culture how is that a bad thing? All of the white people getting so angry is, I think, the reason that they are hosting this event. This whole "color blind" shit that liberals tend to embrace these days is just as damning as overt racism. Also: pretty sure his joke about maybe crossing the line with the Scandinavian "nite" was just that: a joke.
43
You have purposely intended to offend to garner attention to your church. The scripture Romans 14:13 instructs us to not put a stumbling block in front of others. Jesus did not preach his Father's message in a tone that would disrespect people's cultural or racial differences.
To offend others so blatantly with ignorant stereotypes and then basically laugh and blame it on "humor" is the worst type of disrespect. To do so to your fellow brothers and sisters is highly abusive and then even worse, you hide behind God's name to spew your racism.
For shame.
To offend others so blatantly with ignorant stereotypes and then basically laugh and blame it on "humor" is the worst type of disrespect. To do so to your fellow brothers and sisters is highly abusive and then even worse, you hide behind God's name to spew your racism.
For shame.
44
You have purposely intended to offend to garner attention to your church. The scripture Romans 14:13 instructs us to not put a stumbling block in front of others. Jesus did not preach his Father's message in a tone that would disrespect people's cultural or racial differences.
To offend others so blatantly with ignorant stereotypes and then basically laugh and blame it on "humor" is the worst type of disrespect. To do so to your fellow brothers and sisters is highly abusive and then even worse, you hide behind God's name to spew your racism.
For shame.
To offend others so blatantly with ignorant stereotypes and then basically laugh and blame it on "humor" is the worst type of disrespect. To do so to your fellow brothers and sisters is highly abusive and then even worse, you hide behind God's name to spew your racism.
For shame.
46
How about doing a month about youth pastors who have been fucking their congregations? That would be hysterically funny, huh?
47
Ugh, this poster is so offensive. Try posting this crap in Seattle (nobody is that clueless and stupid around here) Craig Finley is the male version of Michelle Malkin.
48
https://www.facebook.com/groups/16003948…
photos of oriental nite
Check out the racist squinty eye photos featuring Craig Finley and his sheeple. Spreading hate, oppression, and division with his ignorant stereotypes in front of these white teenagers is a travesty and yes, very laughable.
photos of oriental nite
Check out the racist squinty eye photos featuring Craig Finley and his sheeple. Spreading hate, oppression, and division with his ignorant stereotypes in front of these white teenagers is a travesty and yes, very laughable.
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