Slog Comments
Anti-Gay Bigots Surprised to Learn They Don't Speak for Sullivan, Sullivan First Christian Church, Or Sullivan High School
3
Freedom of speech is NOT the same thing as freedom from the consequences of your speech. ESPECIALLY SO if your speech just so happens to be hate speech, as Medley's was. I wasn't going to sign that petition before, but having to see people whine about the first amendment has given me the strength to come up with a login to sign that bitch.
4
Taxpayers deserve and expect better. Medley should go teach her nonsense in some religious brainwashing school.
5
Fundamentalist Christians of this particular sort often suffer from closed social systems and epistemic closure and sincerely believe that most Americans hold the same "values" as they do, and are quite surprised when there is a serious blowback like in this case. Of course, such blowback then feeds into their persecution and suffering for Christ complexes.
I don't remember who said it first, but it is worth repeating: Ms. Medley et al., you are not being persecuted because you aren't allowed to dictate laws, define God, demand acquiescnece of everyone else's lives to your faith, and demonize those you've placed on this month's waterslide to hell list.
I don't remember who said it first, but it is worth repeating: Ms. Medley et al., you are not being persecuted because you aren't allowed to dictate laws, define God, demand acquiescnece of everyone else's lives to your faith, and demonize those you've placed on this month's waterslide to hell list.
6
It's a totally different state, but that 8th grade science teacher in California who was doing a good job got canned when they found out that she had been in porn previously, even though it was her legal right to have done so.
7
David Badesh did put it best. If Medley is a howling bigot but does her duty at the workplace—if all her actions in front of the students are consistent with all of them having worth—then there is no reason to fire her.
To continue with Mr. Savage's metaphor, if a teacher thought that her black students didn't deserve to attend prom but performed no actions interfering with their right to do so such as telling them not to go to prom or expressing even silent disapproval when they discussed their prom plans, then that teacher has not done anything to merit a firing. If a teacher of any subject believed his or her black/disabled/gay/female/anything students to have no potential but still did his or her job and helped them reach their potential, then that teacher should not be fired.
Yes, most people act out what they think, but students are not magical telepathic Betazoids from Star Trek. They are directly affected only by actions, not by thoughts.
To continue with Mr. Savage's metaphor, if a teacher thought that her black students didn't deserve to attend prom but performed no actions interfering with their right to do so such as telling them not to go to prom or expressing even silent disapproval when they discussed their prom plans, then that teacher has not done anything to merit a firing. If a teacher of any subject believed his or her black/disabled/gay/female/anything students to have no potential but still did his or her job and helped them reach their potential, then that teacher should not be fired.
Yes, most people act out what they think, but students are not magical telepathic Betazoids from Star Trek. They are directly affected only by actions, not by thoughts.
8
@6 makes an excellent point. If a teacher can be fired for low moral character, like having been in a porn, then other forms of low moral character should be fair game as well. However, do we want to establish that people can be fired for expressing political opinions? Twenty years ago, "I think homosexuality is not a choice" was the statement that would have letter-writers calling for a canning.
9
Northeast school corporation. Northeast school corporation. Northeast. School....CORPORATION......WTF.
10
Here are some handy facts for your emails to Superintendant Mark A. Baker bakerm@nesc.k12.in.us. which I haven't seen mentioned in this national debate:
Medley stated that gay kids have no purpose in life ON TELEVISION, not just in a "church meeting."
This particular County (Sullivan) leads the entire state of Indiana in Suicide Rates. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/i…
Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death in Indiana among people 15-24. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/india…
Gay teens are 4 to 5 TIMES more likely to attempt suicide than their straight peers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_amo…
-- @MileHighJoe1
Medley stated that gay kids have no purpose in life ON TELEVISION, not just in a "church meeting."
This particular County (Sullivan) leads the entire state of Indiana in Suicide Rates. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/i…
Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death in Indiana among people 15-24. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/india…
Gay teens are 4 to 5 TIMES more likely to attempt suicide than their straight peers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_amo…
-- @MileHighJoe1
11
@7: Her action was going on live television and telling the world that she thinks her gay students have zero value in their lives. Does this clear that up for you?
12
"first amendment" is just the latest in double standards. These are the same people who though bob Costas should be fired for talking about gun control but defend anti-gay speech as protected by the first amendment.
14
You guys are the bullies here. When a person starts thinking any other human being's life does not matter, he or she is questioning their own worth. Every person matters. Your approach, to bully, to intimidate, to call out - that's just the same unloving mean bs tactics used by in schools every day against gay teens. Her hatred is some deep f'dup shit but to see you guys pulled so quickly into being just like them, that's sad.
15
In trying to send an e-mail I am being told that the e-mail address is wrong. I am using exactly what is listed in the blog. Anyone else having this problem?
16
Under Pickering v. Board of Education, 391 U.S. 563 (1968), the District would likely be allowed to terminate the teacher/counselor without violating her first amendment rights, even though her speech was on a matter of public concern, and made while off-duty. Under Pickering, a public school employer may discipline a teacher for certain types of speech which "either impeded the teacher's proper performance of his daily duties in the classroom or to have interfered with the regular operation of the schools generally."
I would say both apply.
I would say both apply.
17
Ooh, this one made my blood boil:
"Fired? If it’s determined she’s creating or has created a hostile environment for these kids, then yes."
She JUST DID THAT by going on the teevee and saying what she said. I don't care if before that, she sent all the gay kids flowers and gave them hugs and told them they're fine the way they are. Those actions would now ring hollow because everyone knows what she *really* feels.
In fact, if you're a frickin' music teacher and you say that everyone who can't carry a tune a waste of breath, one can reasonably assume that you won't have a job come Monday. The same goes here. She has now gone out of her way to create a hostile environment for these kids.
"Fired? If it’s determined she’s creating or has created a hostile environment for these kids, then yes."
She JUST DID THAT by going on the teevee and saying what she said. I don't care if before that, she sent all the gay kids flowers and gave them hugs and told them they're fine the way they are. Those actions would now ring hollow because everyone knows what she *really* feels.
In fact, if you're a frickin' music teacher and you say that everyone who can't carry a tune a waste of breath, one can reasonably assume that you won't have a job come Monday. The same goes here. She has now gone out of her way to create a hostile environment for these kids.
18
What if it came out she spoke for communism ? Or it he passionately spoke out against religion? You could make the argument that that impeded the mental well being of religious children.
This woman is a bigot but we don't know how she interacts with the kids in her care. For all we know her personal beliefs have no barring in her conduct in the classroom. Taking away someone's livelihood is a big deal and those fighting for gay rights shouldn't give in to a mob mentality of destroying a persons' life without all the facts.
This woman is a bigot but we don't know how she interacts with the kids in her care. For all we know her personal beliefs have no barring in her conduct in the classroom. Taking away someone's livelihood is a big deal and those fighting for gay rights shouldn't give in to a mob mentality of destroying a persons' life without all the facts.
19
My email would consist of the sentence: ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND? several hundred times, so I think I'll pass. My blood pressure can't tolerate me sitting down and actually trying to put into WORDS how fucking offensive it is that homophobia is a 'free speech' issue and directly harming kids is ... okay, I'm going to work myself into an aneurysm here. Kudos to those of you who managed to send something vaguely civilized.
20
I'm truly stunned that any parent would allow this woman to have contact with their child. If my child were a student at this school, I would be in the principal's office demanding some assurance that this woman would never have contact with my child in any way.
21
@2 Oh No Danny....back to deleting posts?
You really ARE at war with the First amendment, aren't you, Slick....
You really ARE at war with the First amendment, aren't you, Slick....
22
While I don't particularly like defending Ms. Medley, to play devil's advocate, according to her beliefs homosexuality is a choice. Thus I think the analogy to African-Americans doesn't really apply, as someone can not refrain from being black in the way someone can refrain from engaging in homosexual acts. The fact that this is total bullshit is irrelevant, she could nevertheless claim that she does in fact "love" all her students, she just disagrees with one particular choice made by a few of them. For example, if I think smoking is immoral, does that mean I hate my students who smoke and am unfit to be their teacher?
23
You don't know the half of it...
She taunted a classroom of gay students;
called them Pansy-Assed;
said they needed to get over the BULLSHIT that homosexuality is innate or normal.
Fired?
She should be strung up.....
She taunted a classroom of gay students;
called them Pansy-Assed;
said they needed to get over the BULLSHIT that homosexuality is innate or normal.
Fired?
She should be strung up.....
24
IT GETS WORSE!
She said that Religion was BULLSHIT.
That it has NO CLEAR PURPOSE!
That NO GOOD comes from it.
tell that to the Rev Martin Luther King, Jr.........
She said that Religion was BULLSHIT.
That it has NO CLEAR PURPOSE!
That NO GOOD comes from it.
tell that to the Rev Martin Luther King, Jr.........
25
I refer the assembled company of those concerned with Ms Medley's on-the-job performance to "Rumpole and the Rights of Man" in which a bigoted judge gives a defendant of colour a fair trial, then gives a speech to the Rugby Club spelling out his racist views in full.
26
@8, "If a teacher can be fired for low moral character, like having been in a porn..." You've got a faulty premise there, lady.
@14, Calling for the removal of a teacher who has publicly stated her negative beliefs about some of her students is not the same as picking on a kid because of who they are. In fact calling for the removal of said teacher is entirely congruent with the goal of better protecting vulnerable youth.
@14, Calling for the removal of a teacher who has publicly stated her negative beliefs about some of her students is not the same as picking on a kid because of who they are. In fact calling for the removal of said teacher is entirely congruent with the goal of better protecting vulnerable youth.
27
@21, @23, @24: I know you're just a fucking troll but I feel like taking you down anyway.
1. Pretty sure the Stranger website deleted the post, not Dan.
2. He apologized for the pansy-assed comment. As for the "bullshit in the bible" comment, there's historical precedent for that (i.e. all the pro-slavery shit in both the Old and New Testaments that every Christian in their right mind now disavows).
3. Religion is quite demonstrably a choice, a belief. He never said that religious PEOPLE served no purpose in life. In fact, he has a term (NALT=Not All Like That) for Christians who do not actively condemn to hell those who make them uncomfortable. Calling out the Christians who do isn't bigotry, it's common sense and it's completely just.
4. To even remotely associate Martin Luther King's Christian outreach with Medley's hateful, separatist insularity only proves what a totally delusional asshole you are. That is all.
1. Pretty sure the Stranger website deleted the post, not Dan.
2. He apologized for the pansy-assed comment. As for the "bullshit in the bible" comment, there's historical precedent for that (i.e. all the pro-slavery shit in both the Old and New Testaments that every Christian in their right mind now disavows).
3. Religion is quite demonstrably a choice, a belief. He never said that religious PEOPLE served no purpose in life. In fact, he has a term (NALT=Not All Like That) for Christians who do not actively condemn to hell those who make them uncomfortable. Calling out the Christians who do isn't bigotry, it's common sense and it's completely just.
4. To even remotely associate Martin Luther King's Christian outreach with Medley's hateful, separatist insularity only proves what a totally delusional asshole you are. That is all.
28
I'm SO SICK of hearing people refer to bigots expressing their ass-backward beleifs about gay people is a matter of "political opinion". Thinking people don't deserve rights, or that they deserve to be treated as second class citizens is a little stronger than a political opinion. It's hate.
29
27
you shouldn't have bothered.
Danny is a hateful toxic bigot who is not above inflicting his bile on a captive auditorium of children; worse than what he claims Medley is.
And ALL bigots claim that THEIR narrow minded ignorant views are TRUE so its "OK".
Please provide peer reviewed scientific evidence that PROVES that homosexuality is any more innate than religious belief.
Spoiler Alert, there is none....
Danny and the FagHags repeating it over and over and over doesn't make it true.
Danny seeks to destroy those who disagree with him.
That is incompatible with a pluralistic society that recognizes EVERYONE's right to free speech and free thought.
Danny might be more comfortable hanging out with the Taliban.
you shouldn't have bothered.
Danny is a hateful toxic bigot who is not above inflicting his bile on a captive auditorium of children; worse than what he claims Medley is.
And ALL bigots claim that THEIR narrow minded ignorant views are TRUE so its "OK".
Please provide peer reviewed scientific evidence that PROVES that homosexuality is any more innate than religious belief.
Spoiler Alert, there is none....
Danny and the FagHags repeating it over and over and over doesn't make it true.
Danny seeks to destroy those who disagree with him.
That is incompatible with a pluralistic society that recognizes EVERYONE's right to free speech and free thought.
Danny might be more comfortable hanging out with the Taliban.
30
Read " The Arising Voice" column in the Sullivan Daily times newspaper . Friday , Feb 8th for my opinion on the whole matter at hand.
31
@27: You thinking homosexuality is a choice and stating it over and over again doesn't make it true either, now does it?
You calling Savage out as a bigot and then referring to him and his supporters as "Danny and the FagHags" is such bald hypocrisy I'm shocked you could type through the embarrassment.
I'm sure if a gay teacher taught his/her students to love and accept their fellow queer students, you'd accuse them of corrupting the youth. However, a straight teacher spreading intolerance and hatred is a victim of Dan's bigotry and not a perpetuator of her own? Because you agree with her side? That's awful selective for a pluralistic worldview.
BTW, it's post 9/11 Fox News bullshit 101 to equate liberal critique with violent theocracies.
Also, the American Psychiatric Association took homosexuality off its list of disorders in the seventies. Catch up.
You calling Savage out as a bigot and then referring to him and his supporters as "Danny and the FagHags" is such bald hypocrisy I'm shocked you could type through the embarrassment.
I'm sure if a gay teacher taught his/her students to love and accept their fellow queer students, you'd accuse them of corrupting the youth. However, a straight teacher spreading intolerance and hatred is a victim of Dan's bigotry and not a perpetuator of her own? Because you agree with her side? That's awful selective for a pluralistic worldview.
BTW, it's post 9/11 Fox News bullshit 101 to equate liberal critique with violent theocracies.
Also, the American Psychiatric Association took homosexuality off its list of disorders in the seventies. Catch up.
33
Gosh, I guess I'm more of a drama queen than I thought as I'm LOVING this story. Pretty pumped at the outrage this stupid person has brought upon herself, I mean how dumb is she to say "gay people have no purpose" and they "offend her"? Probably not aware of the ole internets and it's viral nature. Can't wait to see how it ends. I'm guessing she will get shit canned.
34
While I find Mrs. Medley's remarks about gays grossly inaccurate, I don't that's the reason she should be fired. She appears to equate her "special needs' students with the same lack of purpose she views gays.
When I was very young I was mis dianosed as "retarded"
( that's the term they used so chill). I can tell you from first hand experience how children with disabilities are treated as defective, broken and useless. If she indeed views her students this way she should be fired.
When I was very young I was mis dianosed as "retarded"
( that's the term they used so chill). I can tell you from first hand experience how children with disabilities are treated as defective, broken and useless. If she indeed views her students this way she should be fired.
35
@34
Actually, she DID say that even her special needs students had a purpose, but was uh ... um ... SORRY to say that gay students didn't. Watch the news video and read the transcript for confirmation.
Actually, she DID say that even her special needs students had a purpose, but was uh ... um ... SORRY to say that gay students didn't. Watch the news video and read the transcript for confirmation.
36
Great letter by Ms. Holt. I would argue, however, that she is quite wrong about J Edgar Hoover. His contributions to life and to America, specifically, were horrendous.
For my mind, the only thing of value in his life is demonstrating the horrible consequences of living in the closet, how it twists your mind & destroys either yourself or the people around you or both.
I feel we should instead elevate the many brave men & women who have fought for LGBT equality & respect. It affects us all, and their efforts have made this a better world.
For my mind, the only thing of value in his life is demonstrating the horrible consequences of living in the closet, how it twists your mind & destroys either yourself or the people around you or both.
I feel we should instead elevate the many brave men & women who have fought for LGBT equality & respect. It affects us all, and their efforts have made this a better world.
37
Ashley N. Holt, whoever you are, wherever you are, good for you for sticking up for your brother. You made my day.
38
I have a thought. What if--to make our point--we all send in and/or compile a list of LGBT people that have done significant things and made a difference. They could be activists, inventors, writers, actors, scientists--anyone. They can be famous or not. Personal stories acceptable. Then we can show Medley that gay people do have a purpose. A gay man invented the computer. She can't discount that.
41
@14: If she's questioning her own worth and taking that confusion out on the LGBT students (regardless of her actions in the classroom, those televised comments were guaranteed to get to her students), then she is not in a psychological state suitable for working as an authority figure and pseudo-caretaker for children. The well-being of the students must be the primary concern when considering who can and cannot work as a teacher.
42
31
No.It doesn't.
But tens of millions of "homosexuals" leading rich full heterosexual lives before, during, and after outing themselves as "homosexual" does.
We do not know what is in the mind or hearts of "homosexuals"; we can, however, observe their actions.
And those make the claim that "homosexuality" is a biological state of being laughable.
What? You didn't realize Slog was a big fat Danny Cult-o-Personality Fest?
Sorry to bust your cherry.....
No.It doesn't.
But tens of millions of "homosexuals" leading rich full heterosexual lives before, during, and after outing themselves as "homosexual" does.
We do not know what is in the mind or hearts of "homosexuals"; we can, however, observe their actions.
And those make the claim that "homosexuality" is a biological state of being laughable.
What? You didn't realize Slog was a big fat Danny Cult-o-Personality Fest?
Sorry to bust your cherry.....
43
@14 I think you're missing the point entirely. Someone whose job it is to care for, nurture, and educate the most vulnerable children has a duty, a job responsibility, not to carry evisceral hate, especially for anyone who might end up in her care. If she was able to conceal it, to lock it away, to never reveal it in her duties, or where those who depend on her services might encounter it, and to behave as if she didn't harbor it, then fine, it might be a non-issue.
But, in this case, it's not. She's disqualified herself from her position.
I'm sure she'll be fine, though. There are "Christian" academies that will be lining up to hire her after she's booted by the local public school system. Which can't happen soon enough.
But, in this case, it's not. She's disqualified herself from her position.
I'm sure she'll be fine, though. There are "Christian" academies that will be lining up to hire her after she's booted by the local public school system. Which can't happen soon enough.
44
Disgusting fags we hope you die;
Eliminating perverts would make no one cry;
You gross and queer;
Because you take it in the rear;
You are extremely sick;
Because you get off from poop on your di--;
The only role for nasty as faggots;
Is in the ground feeding maggots.
Eliminating perverts would make no one cry;
You gross and queer;
Because you take it in the rear;
You are extremely sick;
Because you get off from poop on your di--;
The only role for nasty as faggots;
Is in the ground feeding maggots.
45
Oh my god, 44! I love that you couldn't bring yourself to spell out "dick". Now go do your homework.
46
An Open Letter to Diana Medley of Sullivan, Indiana (7000 hits and growing!)
http://jpatrickredmond.tumblr.com/post/4…
http://jpatrickredmond.tumblr.com/post/4…
47
An Open Letter to Diana Medley of Sullivan, Indiana (Over 7000 hits and growing!)
http://jpatrickredmond.tumblr.com/post/4…
http://jpatrickredmond.tumblr.com/post/4…
48
@44:
Your poem, posted in this thread,
Must have rung nicely in your head.
You'd say your piece in rhyme and verse
To fill our poor queer hearts with dread.
Alas, it did not happen so;
Your triumph now a tale of woe,
You made it clear you're gay-averse
But only entertained your foe.
No rhythm; basic, feeble rhyme;
One wonders that you took the time
To censor "dick" while leaving "fag"
In this rhapsody so sublime.
A scant eight lines you wrote, and yet,
A typo plagues your grim octet.
Attacking folks for who they shag
Requires more skill to make them sweat.
I must suggest you stick to prose;
Your greenness at poetry shows.
Your poem, posted in this thread,
Must have rung nicely in your head.
You'd say your piece in rhyme and verse
To fill our poor queer hearts with dread.
Alas, it did not happen so;
Your triumph now a tale of woe,
You made it clear you're gay-averse
But only entertained your foe.
No rhythm; basic, feeble rhyme;
One wonders that you took the time
To censor "dick" while leaving "fag"
In this rhapsody so sublime.
A scant eight lines you wrote, and yet,
A typo plagues your grim octet.
Attacking folks for who they shag
Requires more skill to make them sweat.
I must suggest you stick to prose;
Your greenness at poetry shows.
49
@44 ... You should think yourself to be quite talented, for no one else will.
@48 ... "grim octet" is so spot on. Thanks for the laugh of the day. I hope we see more of your verse here.
@48 ... "grim octet" is so spot on. Thanks for the laugh of the day. I hope we see more of your verse here.
51
ha ha! @44 Burn!
Also, how come so many heterosexual couples like to do it in the butt too? Lotsa nice opposite-sex couple have anal sex. Should they burn in hell too? I'm mean, come on, show some consistency in your hatred.
Also, how come so many heterosexual couples like to do it in the butt too? Lotsa nice opposite-sex couple have anal sex. Should they burn in hell too? I'm mean, come on, show some consistency in your hatred.
52
@6 I would not compare this to the CA teacher porn example. Instead, I would focus on the concept of cause vs. speech.
1. The CA teacher wasn't urging kids to do porn, nor urging the school to encourage porn, nor using school facilities. it was a personal activity on her own time. So, I don't think she should have been fired, even if she were making porn after her career as a teacher started, and certainly not for something from before. No cause for adverse job action as the labor lawyers say, because her activity did not affect her job directly.
2. The IN teacher's personal beliefs/prejudice & activities are spilling over into the classroom, she is trying to push her beliefs down the throats of the children. Hence, it is OK to fire her, as the actions she is lobbying her school for hurt not only the LGBTQ kids but also all kids.
If she had a blog where she was being homophobic, then it would be less clear cut that there is cause -- kids don't have to google her blog. I am uncomfortable with those who would advocate that it's OK for an employer to silence any employee and "owns" their speech 24/7. Do we really want to cede that much power to corporations/employers? I know the US *does* permit this, but many countries in Europe do not permit employers to fire employees unless there is cause, and personal-time speech is not cause for termination of employment. Although, in most European countries there is no freedom for hate speech, so she could face legal consequences for certain types of speech if they step over the limit, and committing an offense on personal time is cause for job termination.... speech is complex area of law. But in this woman's case, a clear-cut case can be made for firing her under US law.
1. The CA teacher wasn't urging kids to do porn, nor urging the school to encourage porn, nor using school facilities. it was a personal activity on her own time. So, I don't think she should have been fired, even if she were making porn after her career as a teacher started, and certainly not for something from before. No cause for adverse job action as the labor lawyers say, because her activity did not affect her job directly.
2. The IN teacher's personal beliefs/prejudice & activities are spilling over into the classroom, she is trying to push her beliefs down the throats of the children. Hence, it is OK to fire her, as the actions she is lobbying her school for hurt not only the LGBTQ kids but also all kids.
If she had a blog where she was being homophobic, then it would be less clear cut that there is cause -- kids don't have to google her blog. I am uncomfortable with those who would advocate that it's OK for an employer to silence any employee and "owns" their speech 24/7. Do we really want to cede that much power to corporations/employers? I know the US *does* permit this, but many countries in Europe do not permit employers to fire employees unless there is cause, and personal-time speech is not cause for termination of employment. Although, in most European countries there is no freedom for hate speech, so she could face legal consequences for certain types of speech if they step over the limit, and committing an offense on personal time is cause for job termination.... speech is complex area of law. But in this woman's case, a clear-cut case can be made for firing her under US law.
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