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[BJ] The answer is to date feminist and preferably bisexual woman They might have such an internal reaction, but they're so much more strongly motivated by not wanting to be charged with Doing Feminism Wrong that they'd never admit it.
Posted by vennominon on July 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM · Report this
I'd be so into it. Hot as fuck.
Posted by og on July 3, 2013 at 6:18 PM · Report this
The gay bars in Tucson are very laid back. If you'd like to go out dressed, I doubt you'd be "recognized". I've met many straight cross-dressing men at various gay watering holes in Tucson.

Don't know about meeting a woman through that venue though. Good luck.
Posted by MaiaD on July 3, 2013 at 7:55 PM · Report this
Most 23 year-olds haven't met the right person yet.
Posted by Amanda on July 3, 2013 at 8:49 PM · Report this
Move to a bigger city.
Posted by puddles on July 3, 2013 at 9:57 PM · Report this
soundz totes hot to me...
Posted by ellarosa on July 3, 2013 at 11:12 PM · Report this
+1 Amanda @4. If, at 23, he was saying he'd met the love of his life and was on a plane to Vegas to get married by an Elvis impersonator, we (and Dan) would be telling him to slow the fuck down.
Posted by DAVIDinKENAI on July 3, 2013 at 11:19 PM · Report this
The answer is join your local wiccan community.
Posted by Marrena on July 4, 2013 at 1:15 AM · Report this
Why, oh Why, is this guy including women in his fantasy to have sex with a man. Such a misleading closeted jerk. Heaven help any woman who kindly deals with his kinks as he slowly rolls them out (I think this GGG stuff has limits) should run for the hills! Dude is Gay, not a transvestite, probably a drag queen with humiliation / cuck thrown in. Run, Ladies, Run!
Posted by fotoeve on July 4, 2013 at 2:35 AM · Report this
Sabotage 10
@9: Biphobic much?
Posted by Sabotage on July 4, 2013 at 5:41 AM · Report this
Sea Otter 11
@9 Firstly, cross dressers are almost always straight (or at least straight leaning). Cross dressers and drag queens are two different things - they both wear women's clothes but their motivations are different. Secondly, many mostly-straight guys fantasize about or seek out sexytimes with other men. It's quite common and it does not automatically make them gay. Thirdly, you sound like you're a homophobe who would be no fun in bed.

Add me to the list of women who think this sounds hot, btw. Why can't I find a guy like this?? Where are they??
Posted by Sea Otter on July 4, 2013 at 5:46 AM · Report this
I think kinks like these need to be advertised up front. If you do it like that, they aren't bugs but features.
Posted by Pope Buck I on July 4, 2013 at 6:24 AM · Report this
The LW sounds a lot like my bi and genderqueer husband, and the scenario suggested at the end of the letter sounds super hot. There are women who would be really into what he's proposing. I hope that nearly five years later the LW has found a woman who accepts him and sees his kinks as both positive and hot.
Posted by canada girl on July 4, 2013 at 7:55 AM · Report this
Should "guy-on-guy stuff" be in the same sentence as "wearing panties." If I wanted to cross dress, my GF would have no issue. Probably she'd even warm up to going out with me dressed that way. But asking to fuck a dude? No way. That's bringing another person into the relationship which many people aren't okay with.

"Where can I meet my dream girl who will watch me with a different girl while I am wearing a skirt?"
Posted by kg8484 on July 4, 2013 at 7:56 AM · Report this
I just wanna say I'm not sure Dan is right about man-on-man sex seeming unmasculine to most straight women. I think the other explanation is most of it-- it seems GAY to them. Most of the straight boys we know are not only NOT interested man-on-man, but they are vehemently averse to it (part homophobia, part wiring if the science I've read is right). So when we meet a young20's guy who 'just for fun' wants to float the idea of fucking another guy, we think, "Dude, you must be gay!" because of all the stigmas he has to push through to get to this. So yes, this is bi-phobic (or maybe bi-unaware, just maybe... generally accurate). So I think most women take a step back because it seems like an orientation thing rather than a masculinity thing. And I think most women are much more threatened by the idea of their guy wanting to fuck guys than wanting to fuck other girls.

Now, if the girls already know you are Bi when they start dating you and they still say Eww, gross, that's on them. And maybe you need to explain what "Bi" means because maybe it has a different definition in Tucson than everywhere else!
Posted by Kathy23 on July 4, 2013 at 10:01 AM · Report this
@15 you're reading old science when you said:

"Most of the straight boys we know are not only NOT interested man-on-man, but they are vehemently averse to it (part homophobia, part wiring if the science I've read is right)."

That was a few studies a while ago. But they didn't pan out.

Now that gay is more acceptable culturally, a lot more straight boys are neutral on the gay, or even up for a little man-on-man "snogging" (kissing) just for drunk laughs -- see some new studies on English college athletes or youtube. Not gay chicken, outright open-mouthed tongues in kissing. American college dudes are a bit behind the curve but it's probably coming here soon. Happily :-).
Posted by delta35 on July 4, 2013 at 12:43 PM · Report this
Fistique 17
How can you be dating other 23 year-olds and still run into girls that think crossdressing or gay sex is gross? Are you sure you're not accidentally dating octogenarians?
Posted by Fistique on July 4, 2013 at 1:49 PM · Report this
@11, I find that many cross-dressers (maybe half) like the idea of sex with men while they are dressed as women. They still identify as straight, not bi, because when dressed as men they like women and when dressed as women they like men. But it can be hard for someone new to the concept to think of that approach as "straight."

As for where to find them, try

Posted by EricaP on July 4, 2013 at 1:54 PM · Report this
@1 You can't possibly "do feminism wrong". That's like saying you can do bisexuality wrong. And let me just prove that by saying, "Hi! I'm a bisexual feminist female, and am very into cross dressing bi guys."

To the letter writer: My current bf is bi, but even though he's not into cross dressing, he does it for me once in a while 'cause he's GGG like that. I'm sorry you're stuck in a small town with few options. But cheer up! There is very likely a girl for you there somewhere, who feels she'll never meet a guy who wants to put on panties for her. I'd suggest going to your local munch. A lot of people in BDSM are into cross dressing. That is how I met my last cross-dressing boyfriend, actually! Alternatively, you could attend a showing of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" and look for the girls who are drooling at Tim Curry. I have it on authority from at least three other women that's how they got into cute boys in corsets. :) Good luck!!
Posted by blondegrrl on July 4, 2013 at 2:46 PM · Report this
Corylea 20
I used to date a cross-dresser. I wasn't LOOKING for one, but when I met a very interesting man at a party ... who happened to be wearing the same outfit I was ... I decided to give it a try. He had a full, bushy beard and male pattern baldness, so he wasn't trying to pass for female, but his black suede mini-skirt revealed great legs, and his conversation revealed an interesting mind and a great sense of humor.

All of which is to say that there ARE women who aren't turned on by the idea of cross-dressing who will be open to it if they meet the right guy. But ... and this may be key ... the man I used to date was completely secure in his identity as a cross-dresser. He wore a skirt not just around the house but to work, to the grocery store, out on dates with me, everywhere. He was amazingly expert at deflecting flak from narrow-minded fools, and I saw him talk down men who had thought that they needed to beat him up, until Glenn talked to them. Glenn KNEW that he was supposed to be wearing a skirt, and in the face of his calm certainty of the rightness of his actions, everyone else found themselves giving way. It was truly amazing.

Both of us were science fiction fans, so we went to a few science fiction conventions together (where a man in a dress will definitely NOT be the most strangely-dressed person there :-D). I watched once as a little girl -- who was maybe 6 years old -- asked him why he was wearing a dress. He replied, "Because I like to feel pretty. Don't you like to feel pretty?" She shyly agreed that she did. He started talking about his favorite party dress, then she talked about HER favorite party dress, and they were completely adorable together.

It probably helped that he earned his living as a computer programmer, since computer geeks are known for their tolerance. And it probably helped that his primary hobby was playing the guitar, since "I'm with the band" was a great excuse for being dressed strangely on those days when he was too busy or tired to do his usual amazing job of public relations.

Nearly all of his girlfriends were bisexual women, because most bisexual women think that someone who gives off both male and female cues is intriguing, not broken. :-)

So, work on your own self-acceptance, date bisexual women, and seek out subgroups where the unusual is socially acceptable, and you, too, can have a great life.
Posted by Corylea on July 4, 2013 at 2:50 PM · Report this
Ophian 21
@9, "Why, oh Why, is this guy including women in his fantasy to have sex with a man.(sic)"

Because his fantasy is to have sex with a man while his girlfriend watches. Dumbass.

@15 "So when we meet a...guy who...float[s] the idea of fucking another guy, we think, "Dude, you must be gay!" because of all the stigmas he has to push through to get to this."

That is one of the major "stigmas" a bi guy has to deal with vis-à-vis being out to a straight SO.

@11, that sounds like the gradation from cross-dressing to autogynephilia. If one considers autogynephilia to be a paraphilia and not an orientation...then, yeah I guess you could consider that the guy over their in fishnets getting it up the ass from a man is straight. Or is that when we have hit the limits of usefulness for current standard terminology?
Posted by Ophian on July 4, 2013 at 3:04 PM · Report this
@22, you may be describing crossdressers and drag queens you know, but it's a big world and I don't think your descriptions hold true for most men who like to wear women's clothing.

I think many of those "hairy dudes" in dresses want to shave and only don't because there's not much room for middle ground in our society. If they're not ready to go full-time female, then they're going to get a lot of looks wearing shorts with shaved legs. Also if they're in a relationship with a straight woman, she may want him to have hair on his body. That doesn't mean that the guy wouldn't prefer to look prettier.

Also, many drag queens are into the performance side of it, and don't necessarily want to become a woman.
Posted by EricaP on July 4, 2013 at 4:22 PM · Report this
lolorhone 24
All this speculation about CPSP's "real" desires w/r/t men and cross-dressing only reinforces the problem he's writing about w/r/t girlfriends and his hometown. There's no need for speculation at all- as Ophian @21 pointed out, he states both his orientation (bi, mostly attracted to women) and his specific fantasy (sex with a guy while cross-dressed and watched by his girlfriend) quite clearly. There is nothing else "up" here, and this assumption of his dishonesty- presuming he's hiding something dark, that the cross-dressing and man-craving mean he's actually closeted and asking some girl to help him stutter-step into Total Queersville-is biphobia in extremis. He said who he is and what he wants plainly; respect him enough to take his word for it.
Posted by lolorhone on July 4, 2013 at 7:08 PM · Report this
Neptune 25
Will there EVER be a Savage Love dating site?!

Posted by Neptune on July 4, 2013 at 9:00 PM · Report this
i was surprised the way Dan didn't pick up on the fact that he throws in the 'guy-on-guy stuff' in the second half, as though that isn't kind of a bigger deal.

i think i'm pretty GGG, and my reaction to a partner wanting to cross-dress in bed was 'sure, we can try that'. but i am 100% monogamous and absolutely not interested in sharing - so any wish to act out fantasies involving another person, male or female would be 'hell no.'

if some form of non-monogamy is important to this guy, that's fair enough, but he needs to remember that that is a big deal, even for a woman who could get on board with cross-dressing.
Posted by lucifermourning on July 5, 2013 at 4:56 AM · Report this
SRK83 27
I know this letter is old,but sign me the fuck up. I'm increasingly finding to my utter confusion that I am attracted to gay men and any man who's into man on man sex. Confusing because I've always been a straight female. I keep asking the men I hook up with if they'd fuck another guy while I watch and I get eww gross.

So if Mr. Savage is still in touch with letter writer, tell him there are women out there who'd be interested BIG TIME.
Posted by SRK83 on July 5, 2013 at 5:00 AM · Report this
@11: In Tuscon, apparently.
Posted by clashfan on July 5, 2013 at 6:28 AM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 29
Yep. Or maybe in Tucson.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty on July 5, 2013 at 7:14 AM · Report this
I'm a few decades - or more - past his age group, but holy hell is the idea of dating a guy into other guys is hot. It wouldn't bother me if he were a cross-dresser as well even though it's not one of my kinks, but two guys together? One of my major turn ons.
Posted by eroticawriter on July 5, 2013 at 4:03 PM · Report this
@29: D'oh! That'll teach me to not proofread even the shortest comments.
Posted by clashfan on July 5, 2013 at 8:22 PM · Report this
Oh my frackin' god, there are *so* many women out there that are totally into that kind of threesome! I'm a bi guy, and my wife *loves* to watch me get my butt pounded by another guy. And she loves it when I cross-dress, too, although I'm not *that* into it that it's an integral part of my sexuality.

This dude is just unlucky, if you ask me, but a personals ad saying "bi guy seeks woman who likes the occasional three-way with another guy" would probably get the kind of responses he's looking for. After that, cross-dressing is just icing on the cake.
Posted by gromm on July 6, 2013 at 12:07 PM · Report this
Look me up on OkStupid! RRawr!
Posted by PinkieB on July 7, 2013 at 1:05 PM · Report this

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