Line Out Comments
Tonight In this City
3
@2, your glib comment comes from a place of having zero information. The zest, intent, vitriol and time Carr and his staff have spent attacking Seattle nightlife can not be underemphasized. The guy is truly Evil and needs to be voted out.
4
Does anyone actually think that the goal of the city of Seattle is to shut down bars and nightclubs? I understand why people are angry, but that is a real Michigan Militia type statement. Anyone who legitimately thinks this is the case can go live in the woods and wait out the apocalypse, leaving the thinking (and voting) to the non-crazies.
5
@3 How many bars have been closed? How many liquor licenses have been revoked? What is the total net monetary loss that local businesses have paid because of this "evil"? The answers, respectively are: zero, zero, and zero. You can be opposed to Carr all you want, but this is still a nation of laws, and it is inaccurate and wholly misrepresentative to create some kind of boogey man that simply doesn't exist. My "glib" comments come from a place of rational and informed reality, whereas yours come from the perspective of a sheep who is merely falling for the scare tactics. Think for yourself. Educate yourself about how the legal process works. Because despite what people like Holden say (a high-school dropout who somehow claims to be an expert in all things legal), Carr or any city attorney does not have a license to run around town unchecked. The burden regarding any impropriety is ALWAYS on the state. That's how the process works. And trust me, Dom Holden wouldn't know the first thing about the legal process because he is solely concerned with riling people up by speaking in platitudes. The paranoia and irrationality of Stranger "writers" is simply astounding. Failing Logic is an obvious pre-requisite for working for the master-logician-failure: Dan Savage.
7
@4 - I think you're taking a few words used as dramatic flair in a press release to miss the gist of the argument. Tom Carr has definitely harassed and made business more difficult for both music clubs and gay bars while in office, he's done so with an unexplained zeal for over-enforcement on these specific types of establishment. I don't think he wants to shut them all down, but I think he wants to quiet them down, make them less numerous and stifle their ability to make clubs a place where we can go to have a fun, rowdy night with our friends. It's sorta the same way straight Christians want to have say over what goes on in the bedrooms or relationships of gay men, they just don't like what's going on and will use whatever political weapons they have to try to control other people's behavior. Carr's approach hurts businesses, stifles creativity, and attempts to take away our fun. We just don't need big government breathing down our necks like that, they are our employees and should be spending our tax dollars in tackling real crime issues instead of messing with music fans, bands and clubs. This protest is just an attempt to get more press and awareness about Carr's tactics and behavior as to get everyone that enjoys or cares about the local music community to vote for his opponent in the upcoming election.
8
#5
I think you have Tom Carr posting here .... sure sounds like him. Read it for a mini intro .. now you know why you should support Mr. Holmes.
Good idea, get some unity.
Carr has been part of many attempts to fuck with gay bars and cops walking thru making inspections and taunting customers and bartenders. One Hispanic bartender, 3rd generation American, was asked for his "papers."
Shit.
DO NOT VOTE FOR TOM CARR.
Signed: Jesus Gomez
I think you have Tom Carr posting here .... sure sounds like him. Read it for a mini intro .. now you know why you should support Mr. Holmes.
Good idea, get some unity.
Carr has been part of many attempts to fuck with gay bars and cops walking thru making inspections and taunting customers and bartenders. One Hispanic bartender, 3rd generation American, was asked for his "papers."
Shit.
DO NOT VOTE FOR TOM CARR.
Signed: Jesus Gomez
10
@8 Funny how you can't refute any of the points made. Not really funny. More like it is so sad that your mother failed so hard. Let me guess, you're a high-school dropout paranoid pothead "musician", right? Down with the m-a-a-a-n, man!
11
@4, I stand corrected, you're coming from a place of dis-information (it's telling that you refer to Dominic with an insidery "Dom"). While I don't disagree that Savage, Holden, the Stranger & co can be reactionary chicken-littles, this is simply not the case when it comes to Tom Carr and the activist anti-nightlife missions of his office (the Stranger have always done a disservice to themselves and their credibility with their now-I-hate-Obama and goat-sucking crap, obviously you're taking that into consideration with this issue).
Carr in office with a weak incoming Mayor (which is, no matter who's elected, what they'll be) would mean effectively unapposed anti-nightlife agendas from the City Attorney's office. "Dom's" recent article not only hits the nail on the head, it's only the tip of the iceberg.
Carr in office with a weak incoming Mayor (which is, no matter who's elected, what they'll be) would mean effectively unapposed anti-nightlife agendas from the City Attorney's office. "Dom's" recent article not only hits the nail on the head, it's only the tip of the iceberg.
12
""What is the total net monetary loss that local businesses have paid because of this "evil"? ... zero"
Please let us know the statistics you used to reach this zero hypothesis, because I find it's nearly impossible to come up with a monetary value unrealized gains. Consider, perhaps, that your unproven assumption has no basis in fact and might indeed be wrong. But more importantly, I'm not sure why this matters to music fans. We have the choice to vote for candidate A or B, and A turns out to be quite a jerk towards the music and communities, so those communities are asking you to vote for his opponent. That's not paranoia or irrational.
Please let us know the statistics you used to reach this zero hypothesis, because I find it's nearly impossible to come up with a monetary value unrealized gains. Consider, perhaps, that your unproven assumption has no basis in fact and might indeed be wrong. But more importantly, I'm not sure why this matters to music fans. We have the choice to vote for candidate A or B, and A turns out to be quite a jerk towards the music and communities, so those communities are asking you to vote for his opponent. That's not paranoia or irrational.
13
@11 But where are the tangible "evils" you speak of? There are none! That's why the argument fails. Carr's been in this position for years and the sky has not fallen. Check your facts. And don't ever make conclusions without substantial premises. Seriously, Logic 101 dude.
14
@12 "Unrealized Gains? What the fuck does that even mean? Does it mean that because you have bought into scare-tactics that have no factual, tangible basis, that no one can argue against you? It's so hard explaining things to those without the cognitive ability to understand logic. Go back to "band practice", dude, and leave the actual work for those of us with intellectual ability leaps and bounds above the paranoid potheads.
15
@11 Not "evils", HE is Evil. That's the only way I'd describe his nature. The smiling, nice-guy, friend of all communities facade he's worn during the election season may have fooled you, but it doesn't cover his actions. You're right, the sky has not fallen in with Carr in office, thanks only to awareness and counter activism against his crusades.
16
The city attorneys lied about crime stats in order to "crack down" on Cap Hill Clubs. I know because I was there. When the Stranger and Seattle times fact checked Milner/ Carr. It turned out they LIED. Ginned up stats in order for their own political agenda. LIARS shouldn't hold office! I'm sick of my club being harassed!
17
Wow, you pro Carr people are scary. Lets see YOUR facts.
You can put other people down really well, but what are the facts to defend YOUR case. Why is it that the entire music community is wary of Carr?
Show us how Carr is pro nightlife and pro music.
You can put other people down really well, but what are the facts to defend YOUR case. Why is it that the entire music community is wary of Carr?
Show us how Carr is pro nightlife and pro music.
18
I suspect that if Carr has his way, not ALL bars will be shut down. He's probably fine with everyone going to down to TGIFriday's for an Appletini, or rocking out at your neighborhood Red Robin.
What's that? You go to a night club? No no no, those will definitely go away. Night clubs are frequented by sexual deviants, loose women, and the Negro. Tom Carr will abolish these dens of opium smoking and jazz music; making the city safe again for children, land-owning males, and white women.
What's that? You go to a night club? No no no, those will definitely go away. Night clubs are frequented by sexual deviants, loose women, and the Negro. Tom Carr will abolish these dens of opium smoking and jazz music; making the city safe again for children, land-owning males, and white women.
20
@14 Unrealized gains = monetary loss. You said these businesses have experienced zero monetary loss because of Carr's policies. I don't understand how you think you can account for that loss.
It's great you think you're smart, instead of how I see you, as someone namecalling, overly-dramatic, and failing to put a logical argument together. It boils down to who do you think is worse for the music community, Carr or Holmes. Nightclub owners and The Stranger have put forth their argument for voting for Holmes, why not instead of whining about why they don't like Carr, you tell us why we should vote for him?
It's great you think you're smart, instead of how I see you, as someone namecalling, overly-dramatic, and failing to put a logical argument together. It boils down to who do you think is worse for the music community, Carr or Holmes. Nightclub owners and The Stranger have put forth their argument for voting for Holmes, why not instead of whining about why they don't like Carr, you tell us why we should vote for him?
21
@19: Clearly. I mean, he's basically Batman, except instead of criminals killing his parents, booze killed his childhood. Also, instead of inspiring terror in the hearts of the criminal underworld, he inspires terror in the hearts of people whose bed time is after 9:00 PM.
But the molded rubber nipples? Those are the same.
But the molded rubber nipples? Those are the same.
22
HERE ARE SOME FACTS PEOPLE.........WE LOST APROX 60K in revenue May 2008 when the city attorneys office decided to change, reinterpret, re-inspect Fire, Noise, and capacity in our business.
The final outcome??? We are running the exact same business we were before the crack down. There were no citations, and they found nothing wrong with our operation in the end, but their attack on our business daily, cost us 60k over a 6 - 8 week period.
Capital Hill Business.
The final outcome??? We are running the exact same business we were before the crack down. There were no citations, and they found nothing wrong with our operation in the end, but their attack on our business daily, cost us 60k over a 6 - 8 week period.
Capital Hill Business.
23
Ohh Hey 17. The Facts ARE COMING. By next Thursday you will understand since you don't already that this is a real issue.
24
carr has got to go. he attacks good, legitimate businesses that honestly care about a healthy and safe nightlife. he hurts good people trying to a good job. it's unfortunate more people don't know how this guy operates.
his approach is unfair, unbalanced and 100% unsupportive of nightlife establishments. he sees seattle nightlife as a hindrance instead of the vital asset that it is to seattle culture.
good, honest business people fall under carrs personal agenda. like i said, his approach is aggressive and threatening. he hurts good businesses and their efforts at producing a safe, vibrant nightlife. in turn, he's negatively affecting that very notion by stifling the responsible business owners. go away tom carr. you suck and make good business owners question whether or not they want to be in the nightlife business any longer. the businesses go away... so will our killer, world renowned nightlife. go pete holmes!!!!
mahalo
his approach is unfair, unbalanced and 100% unsupportive of nightlife establishments. he sees seattle nightlife as a hindrance instead of the vital asset that it is to seattle culture.
good, honest business people fall under carrs personal agenda. like i said, his approach is aggressive and threatening. he hurts good businesses and their efforts at producing a safe, vibrant nightlife. in turn, he's negatively affecting that very notion by stifling the responsible business owners. go away tom carr. you suck and make good business owners question whether or not they want to be in the nightlife business any longer. the businesses go away... so will our killer, world renowned nightlife. go pete holmes!!!!
mahalo
25
My household turned in 2 of 2 votes for Holmes.
What pisses me off most about Carr is that he talks about Operation Sobering Thought as a success. ZERO convictions. It was 100% intimidation... and it fell flat! On top of his disingenuous arguments for his record, he has an anger problem. Go fuck yourself, Tom.
What pisses me off most about Carr is that he talks about Operation Sobering Thought as a success. ZERO convictions. It was 100% intimidation... and it fell flat! On top of his disingenuous arguments for his record, he has an anger problem. Go fuck yourself, Tom.
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