Slog Comments
News from the Animal Kingdom: Some Animals Can Display Grief for the Dead
2
Charles reads these passages and sees only dumb animal nature (smelling and stomping about). But I would bet that many people read them and see humanity.
8
@5 I passed upon a crow funeral/wake about 2 weeks ago. I could tell instantly what was happening, and so I looked around a little bit to see their fallen friend on the ground. I stopped briefly, looked up at the throng in the tree and then down at the deceased, and then moved along.
It's best to be respectful of these scenes, but not get involved. You wouldn't want strangers crashing your grandma's funeral, would you?
It's best to be respectful of these scenes, but not get involved. You wouldn't want strangers crashing your grandma's funeral, would you?
11
Household animals know when one of their own has passed. Dogs definitely grieve in their way: I've had one who refused to play for a week, sitting by the bed of the lost companion looking forlorn. Humans who think all animals are just dumb bundles of instinct are kidding themselves.
14
Charles,
I saw a photo of two gorillas embraced about a year or so ago:
http://www.foxnews.com/images/344586/0_6…
Initially, I thought it a platonic/empathetic embrace and way cool. I cut out the picture from the newspaper and placed it on my desk. However, it turns out to be a photo of gorillas having rare face to face sex. I still think it cool. Thought you might like it.
I saw a photo of two gorillas embraced about a year or so ago:
http://www.foxnews.com/images/344586/0_6…
Initially, I thought it a platonic/empathetic embrace and way cool. I cut out the picture from the newspaper and placed it on my desk. However, it turns out to be a photo of gorillas having rare face to face sex. I still think it cool. Thought you might like it.
15
The NYT published a tragic cover story in the magazine about 3 years ago about how elephants packs are collectively going insane because their parents are being poached so regularly. It's a heartbreaking but worthwhile read.
16
Re: Crow funerals.
Two birds got zapped on a transformer in my neighborhood landing at the bottom of the telephone pole. Later, in the early evening, a long stream of crows coming from the NW off the sound alit in a huge redwood across the street - hundreds of them. Once the final bird arrived, they all ceased cawing and were completely and utterly silent for 3 minutes. (I tracked it on my phone.) Then, without audible communication (to me anyway), they peeled off in a stream of crow, heading the same direction inland they'd been going before stopping to pay respect to their fallen idrin/sistren.
It was an emotional scene that felt honored to witness.
Two birds got zapped on a transformer in my neighborhood landing at the bottom of the telephone pole. Later, in the early evening, a long stream of crows coming from the NW off the sound alit in a huge redwood across the street - hundreds of them. Once the final bird arrived, they all ceased cawing and were completely and utterly silent for 3 minutes. (I tracked it on my phone.) Then, without audible communication (to me anyway), they peeled off in a stream of crow, heading the same direction inland they'd been going before stopping to pay respect to their fallen idrin/sistren.
It was an emotional scene that felt honored to witness.
17
" As for humans, some of us can completely contain our emotions and turn the grief into a dark, inner sea that's wide and deep. We know the depths of death. No crying, no smelling, no stomping about—just the silent sea of grief."
Kind of a leap, don't you think? Can't animals have a silent sea of grief? We don't see it because it isn't manifested externally.
Kind of a leap, don't you think? Can't animals have a silent sea of grief? We don't see it because it isn't manifested externally.
18
There was a nature program about chimps in the wild. I remember watching it years ago. It was the story about a family of chimps and one was the matriarch. She had a son. He was still too young to fend for himself very well when one day she dropped dead in a stream. He screamed and pulled at her body for hours. Then he sat on the bank and sobbed for days, wailing and rocking and starring at the body until he too died right next to her from a broken heart.
20
Now for a video of a chimp making a live frog suck his dick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI4xVeRju…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI4xVeRju…
21
@2:
Julie, you see these things and think animals are acting like humans.
Charles reads them and thinks beings are beings are beings...
...and that Humans are differentiated only in their ability to secret away non-being within their souls (Consciousnesses is indeed the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.)
"The fault lies not in your sight but in your philosophy"
Julie, you see these things and think animals are acting like humans.
Charles reads them and thinks beings are beings are beings...
...and that Humans are differentiated only in their ability to secret away non-being within their souls (Consciousnesses is indeed the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.)
"The fault lies not in your sight but in your philosophy"
22
@21. Charles has repeatedly expressed a disdain for animals. Therefore, he takes these descriptions of their grieving processes and sees them simply as more evidence that they are dumb, brutish beings. Whereas others might see these processes as evidence that they are more "conscious" than we are often willing to recognize.
24
julie, i want to give charles some credit here. i thinks he's come around from prior bias toward sarte's ill-informed stance of animals being bio-bots. he's embracing a more modern, science-based view of animal emotion. even if he is throwing in a few charles-style non-sequitters in the process.
25
What you're (mistakenly) attributing to consciousness isn't.
You've got the right idea, but you're drawing the dividing lines in all the wrong places.
You've got the right idea, but you're drawing the dividing lines in all the wrong places.
26
Emotional intelligence is not a product of consciousness.
You're standing on your head declaring that the apple falls upwards.
You're standing on your head declaring that the apple falls upwards.
28
Many humans are uncomfortable with the grieving process. Out of their discomfort they ridicule the honest feelings of others, in this case animals. It would be far better to spend time dealing with their issues, but alas that is not the easy route.
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