Slog Comments
Catholics Are the New Mormons
1
So you think this means that they won't act surprised when protesters start picketing outside their doors, like the Mormons did? Because I think they'll still play the victim if that happens.
2
One hot tub, a Catholics, a Jew, a Muslim, a Wiccan, and an atheist, no clothing, a lot of alcohol, a video camera, and a stamped envelope addressed to your nearest parish with the following note: "Thanks for not ruining my fun by forcing legally binding monogamy on my lifestyle."
3
on the other hand, local Catholics were heavily involved in the Mallahan campaign, which caused Seattle voters to vote and King County to vote, and this resulted in 71 passing in this state ....
not everything is a square peg.
not everything is a square peg.
4
Good luck with that. I've been trying to get excommunicated for years. Once you're in, you can't get out.
5
I'm an ex-catholic. You may have read me write how much I despise that disgusting church and religion. Ugly, ugly religion. It should give you some comfort that the catholic bishops in this state were against 71 as they were against "Death with dignity". Losers.
6
Instead of painting with broad brush, why not look to the inclusive Catholic parish a block from where you were brought up . . . or to the woman in Maine, a eucharistic minister at her church, who penned an op-ed in support of same-sex marriage.
Is she strutting?
State Sen. Ed Murray, chief architect of everything-but-marriage, is a Catholic. He's still inside, fighting for social justice.
'Realize there's a Stranger party line -- Christians are not part of community, as we define it -- but don't be a pander bear.
Is she strutting?
State Sen. Ed Murray, chief architect of everything-but-marriage, is a Catholic. He's still inside, fighting for social justice.
'Realize there's a Stranger party line -- Christians are not part of community, as we define it -- but don't be a pander bear.
8
I still have a consecrated communion host on my bookshelf that I decided not to swallow a few years ago. Maybe I'll Fed Ex it or mail out like some sort of chain messiah. Does anybody know if these things have an expiration date. What is the shelf life of saviours these day anyway. Do deities go stale?
12
Did anyone for one minute think the enemies of Gay Americans are NOT the Radical Religious Extremists? It's always been the "Communities of Faith" (what ever that means) that have caused horrible bloodshed, misery, and ignorance. They used to burn Homos at the stake (faggot) thinking it was the right thing to do. They still think it's okay to dehumanize Gay Americans as unworthy of the same civil rights they enjoy.
13
fashion tip for Catholics becoming the new Mormons - invest in firms that produce really boring art - no, more boring - paintings that totally lack any life in them - yeah, like that.
14
Remember Maine: Full Federal Equality Now!
By SHERRY WOLF
IN STARK contrast to the surge of pro-LGBT activism, and legislative and legal progress in recent months, Maine voters overturned equal marriage rights on Election Day by a margin of 53 percent to 47 percent.
Voter turnout of nearly 50 percent, local efforts by 8,000 volunteers—many of them straight—and a national blitz of phone banking to try to sway Mainers to uphold equal marriage was not sufficient to retain same-sex marriage in that state. Maine’s Question 1—similar to California’s Proposition 8 that reversed same-sex marriage rights in that state exactly a year ago—once again placed civil rights on the ballot, this time in an off-year election.
In Washington state, a new law that greatly expands the rights of LGBT couples—though doesn’t grant marriage itself—was approved by voters, but by an unexpectedly narrow margin of 51 percent to 49 percent.
The failure of the same-sex marriage forces in Maine’s No on 1 campaign to retain marriage equality passed earlier this year by the legislature highlights four central problems: 1) Civil rights activists are weakest outside of urban areas where the financial and institutional resources of the right can dominate rural politics; 2) President Obama and the Democrats have failed to deliver on their promise of “fierce advocacy” of LGBT civil rights; 3) LGBT rights must be enacted into law by the federal government; and 4) Civil rights should not be reduced to election fodder to be manipulated by well-financed bigots.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NATIONWIDE, LGBT activists scrambled in a monumental effort to try to stop right-wingers in Maine from succeeding in what was often termed a “mini-Prop 8” effort that relied on money from the Catholic Church and blitzed the media with lies about how gay marriage would be taught in the schools and imposed on religious institutions.
Local groups will assess the No on 1 organizing efforts in coming weeks, but suffice it to say that despite what appears to have been an energetic and collaborative campaign, equal marriage has lost in every state it has been put to a popular vote—31 in all. Despite the fact that the No on 1 campaign, Protect Maine Equality, raised $4 million and the anti-same-sex marriage forces raised only $2.5 million, the strategy of statewide ballot initiatives plays to activists’ weaknesses, especially in non-urban areas.
In addition to the purposely confusing language used by the right in these initiatives—voting “yes” denied equality, voting “no” would have retained it—larger population centers create opportunities for activists to reach people in groups, as in Portland, Maine, where the vote was an overwhelming 73 percent against Question 1. At University of Maine’s Orono campus, 81 percent of students voted against taking away equal marriage rights, also showing the generation gap that persists on this question.
Similarly, in Washington state, it was urban King County that voted overwhelmingly for the “everything but marriage” referendum, while the less populated eastern part of the state voted against it.
Just three weeks after the massively successful LGBT National Equality March that drew more than 200,000 people demanding full federal equality now, conservatives are punching back. Right-wing bigots like Pat Robertson have attacked recently enacted federal hate crimes legislation, saying, “The noose has tightened around the necks of Christians to keep them from speaking out on certain moral issues.”
In the face of this hostility and legal challenges, the Democrats have been passive at best and hostile at worst. The White House and Congress have failed to deliver so far on promises to reverse decades of legal discrimination in federal and state laws.
When Attorney General Eric Holder was asked about Maine’s Question 1, he said that he and President Obama “are of the view it is for states to make these decisions.” Holder later said to one blogger, “I don’t really know enough about the referendum over there to comment.” As National Equality March organizer Cleve Jones said on MSNBC of President Obama’s silence on Question 1, “This is a far cry from the fierce advocacy he promised us in his campaign.”
Even more outrageous, not only did the Democratic National Committee (DNC) refuse to help finance the No on 1 campaign, but it expressed crass indifference to LGBT rights when the DNC’s organization “Organizing for America” (formerly known as “Obama for America”) e-mailed Maine voters the day before the election about getting involved…in the gubernatorial contest in New Jersey (which lost)!
The failure of the Democrats to hold onto huge gains made in the 2008 election in New Jersey and Virginia gubernatorial races—and the flaccid response from Obama’s base in this off-year election—reveals that the inability of the Democrats in power to deliver on their promises is alienating progressives.
“President Obama and his team were zero help in this critical battle, and in the last week might actually have hurt us,” said David Mixner, long-time Democratic Party activist and initiator of the call for the National Equality March.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MAINE’S REVERSAL on marriage equality proves once again the bankruptcy of the state-by-state, issue-by-issue strategy upheld by many establishment LGBT forces. This approach concedes that civil rights must remain on the precarious turf of the states, in a country where one Constitution is supposed to guarantee equal protection under the law.
Activists can no longer accept that LGBT civil rights can be attained outside the federal government. Even if Maine voters had rejected Question 1, most marriage rights like Social Security are only gained through the federal government and married LGBT people in Maine, as in the equal marriage states, would have remained second-class citizens under the law.
The right’s strategy of placing LGBT civil rights on state ballots for a vote places the battle for human equality on an unstable and hostile terrain. Why should anyone have to battle in each locality for equal treatment in a country where the Fourteenth Amendment—passed after the Civil War!—guarantees equal protection to all U.S. citizens? Why should LGBT people have to repeatedly reassert that we are equal human beings in every state and municipality 45 years after the Civil Rights Act prohibited discrimination?
Civil rights cannot wait for the approval of reactionaries. According to that logic, Blacks, too, should have waited for public opinion to catch up with their demands. But in 1968, one year after the Supreme Court struck down bans on interracial marriage as unconstitutional, Gallup polls showed that only 20 percent of Americans approved of marriages between Blacks and whites.
The failure of Maine’s No on 1 campaign highlights why the National Equality March demand for full equality in all matters of civil law in all 50 states must continue to be the rallying cry of grassroots activists across the country.
This is the Week of Initiative called by Equality Across America, the national network attempting to gather these groupings to map out a national strategy to continue this fight. In cities and towns across the country this week, activists will be marching and protesting this defeat in Maine—and celebrating victories in Washington state and Kalamazoo, Michigan, where pro-LGBT referenda passed.
Remember Maine. Get out and organize for full federal equality now!
SHERRY WOLF is the author of Sexuality and Socialism: History, Politics and Theory of LGBT Liberation (Haymarket Books, 2009) and was on the steering committee of the National Equality March.
More...
By SHERRY WOLF
IN STARK contrast to the surge of pro-LGBT activism, and legislative and legal progress in recent months, Maine voters overturned equal marriage rights on Election Day by a margin of 53 percent to 47 percent.
Voter turnout of nearly 50 percent, local efforts by 8,000 volunteers—many of them straight—and a national blitz of phone banking to try to sway Mainers to uphold equal marriage was not sufficient to retain same-sex marriage in that state. Maine’s Question 1—similar to California’s Proposition 8 that reversed same-sex marriage rights in that state exactly a year ago—once again placed civil rights on the ballot, this time in an off-year election.
In Washington state, a new law that greatly expands the rights of LGBT couples—though doesn’t grant marriage itself—was approved by voters, but by an unexpectedly narrow margin of 51 percent to 49 percent.
The failure of the same-sex marriage forces in Maine’s No on 1 campaign to retain marriage equality passed earlier this year by the legislature highlights four central problems: 1) Civil rights activists are weakest outside of urban areas where the financial and institutional resources of the right can dominate rural politics; 2) President Obama and the Democrats have failed to deliver on their promise of “fierce advocacy” of LGBT civil rights; 3) LGBT rights must be enacted into law by the federal government; and 4) Civil rights should not be reduced to election fodder to be manipulated by well-financed bigots.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
NATIONWIDE, LGBT activists scrambled in a monumental effort to try to stop right-wingers in Maine from succeeding in what was often termed a “mini-Prop 8” effort that relied on money from the Catholic Church and blitzed the media with lies about how gay marriage would be taught in the schools and imposed on religious institutions.
Local groups will assess the No on 1 organizing efforts in coming weeks, but suffice it to say that despite what appears to have been an energetic and collaborative campaign, equal marriage has lost in every state it has been put to a popular vote—31 in all. Despite the fact that the No on 1 campaign, Protect Maine Equality, raised $4 million and the anti-same-sex marriage forces raised only $2.5 million, the strategy of statewide ballot initiatives plays to activists’ weaknesses, especially in non-urban areas.
In addition to the purposely confusing language used by the right in these initiatives—voting “yes” denied equality, voting “no” would have retained it—larger population centers create opportunities for activists to reach people in groups, as in Portland, Maine, where the vote was an overwhelming 73 percent against Question 1. At University of Maine’s Orono campus, 81 percent of students voted against taking away equal marriage rights, also showing the generation gap that persists on this question.
Similarly, in Washington state, it was urban King County that voted overwhelmingly for the “everything but marriage” referendum, while the less populated eastern part of the state voted against it.
Just three weeks after the massively successful LGBT National Equality March that drew more than 200,000 people demanding full federal equality now, conservatives are punching back. Right-wing bigots like Pat Robertson have attacked recently enacted federal hate crimes legislation, saying, “The noose has tightened around the necks of Christians to keep them from speaking out on certain moral issues.”
In the face of this hostility and legal challenges, the Democrats have been passive at best and hostile at worst. The White House and Congress have failed to deliver so far on promises to reverse decades of legal discrimination in federal and state laws.
When Attorney General Eric Holder was asked about Maine’s Question 1, he said that he and President Obama “are of the view it is for states to make these decisions.” Holder later said to one blogger, “I don’t really know enough about the referendum over there to comment.” As National Equality March organizer Cleve Jones said on MSNBC of President Obama’s silence on Question 1, “This is a far cry from the fierce advocacy he promised us in his campaign.”
Even more outrageous, not only did the Democratic National Committee (DNC) refuse to help finance the No on 1 campaign, but it expressed crass indifference to LGBT rights when the DNC’s organization “Organizing for America” (formerly known as “Obama for America”) e-mailed Maine voters the day before the election about getting involved…in the gubernatorial contest in New Jersey (which lost)!
The failure of the Democrats to hold onto huge gains made in the 2008 election in New Jersey and Virginia gubernatorial races—and the flaccid response from Obama’s base in this off-year election—reveals that the inability of the Democrats in power to deliver on their promises is alienating progressives.
“President Obama and his team were zero help in this critical battle, and in the last week might actually have hurt us,” said David Mixner, long-time Democratic Party activist and initiator of the call for the National Equality March.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MAINE’S REVERSAL on marriage equality proves once again the bankruptcy of the state-by-state, issue-by-issue strategy upheld by many establishment LGBT forces. This approach concedes that civil rights must remain on the precarious turf of the states, in a country where one Constitution is supposed to guarantee equal protection under the law.
Activists can no longer accept that LGBT civil rights can be attained outside the federal government. Even if Maine voters had rejected Question 1, most marriage rights like Social Security are only gained through the federal government and married LGBT people in Maine, as in the equal marriage states, would have remained second-class citizens under the law.
The right’s strategy of placing LGBT civil rights on state ballots for a vote places the battle for human equality on an unstable and hostile terrain. Why should anyone have to battle in each locality for equal treatment in a country where the Fourteenth Amendment—passed after the Civil War!—guarantees equal protection to all U.S. citizens? Why should LGBT people have to repeatedly reassert that we are equal human beings in every state and municipality 45 years after the Civil Rights Act prohibited discrimination?
Civil rights cannot wait for the approval of reactionaries. According to that logic, Blacks, too, should have waited for public opinion to catch up with their demands. But in 1968, one year after the Supreme Court struck down bans on interracial marriage as unconstitutional, Gallup polls showed that only 20 percent of Americans approved of marriages between Blacks and whites.
The failure of Maine’s No on 1 campaign highlights why the National Equality March demand for full equality in all matters of civil law in all 50 states must continue to be the rallying cry of grassroots activists across the country.
This is the Week of Initiative called by Equality Across America, the national network attempting to gather these groupings to map out a national strategy to continue this fight. In cities and towns across the country this week, activists will be marching and protesting this defeat in Maine—and celebrating victories in Washington state and Kalamazoo, Michigan, where pro-LGBT referenda passed.
Remember Maine. Get out and organize for full federal equality now!
SHERRY WOLF is the author of Sexuality and Socialism: History, Politics and Theory of LGBT Liberation (Haymarket Books, 2009) and was on the steering committee of the National Equality March.
15
Folks, since we've had some of the same problems with the church over in this little island of ours, some genius figured out the details. Have a look at http://www.countmeout.ie, in the FAQ section, theres how you go about removing yourself from the Catholic Church. One of the links it posts there is for the USA, http://www.atheistactivist.org/Defect.ht….
Hope it helps!
Hope it helps!
16
I am also a retired Catholic (people who refer to themselves as "recovering Catholics" are bores) but you know they still count you as a member, because you were baptized.
Somebody should start a website for ex-Catholics, to show the world and the church, that people are leaving in droves. I don't know anyone who went to Catholic school who is still a practicing Catholic.
But don't make it bitter. I don't want to hear the whiners. I just want the numbers.
Somebody should start a website for ex-Catholics, to show the world and the church, that people are leaving in droves. I don't know anyone who went to Catholic school who is still a practicing Catholic.
But don't make it bitter. I don't want to hear the whiners. I just want the numbers.
17
@9: I dunno. The Mormon theocracy encompasses a single state. The Catholics technically have their own *country*.
18
Dom: if you are are a practicing Christian, then join a church that doesn't oppose gay rights (there are many), get a copy of your membership letter, and send a copy to your parish priest, bishop, archbishop, cardinal and pope and explain exactly why you have left the faith. Don't be a mystery. Let these idiots know that they are on the wrong side of history. Use analogies if you must ("I wouldn't have tolerated the Church's support of Nazis, slavery, invasion of undeveloped countries, inquisition, etc."), and put yourself on record as being on the right side of history.
20
Interesting fact:
The annual census of Catholics worldwide is based on tabulations by each individual parish, which are sent to their respective dioceses, and on to Rome.
The number of Catholics in a parish is determined by the total number of persons baptized in that parish minus the number that have died. Therefore, even if you've left the church, it's very likely that you're still counted as a Catholic year after year, even if you were never confirmed, never married Catholic, etc. The priests I've spoken to all say that they don't take into account those who have intentionally left the church due to ideological differences, or conversion to another faith due to marriage...certainly they don't factor in those who have become de facto ex-Catholics due to a loss of interest over time. As far as Rome's concerned, Dominic, you're probably one more Catholic for the books.
Makes you wonder how Rome will explain the stats if this generation of lapsed Catholics fails en masse to bring their children along for baptism. It used to be that even the most weaksauce Catholics would have their kids baptized, "just in case." I'm not so sure that's happening anymore.
The annual census of Catholics worldwide is based on tabulations by each individual parish, which are sent to their respective dioceses, and on to Rome.
The number of Catholics in a parish is determined by the total number of persons baptized in that parish minus the number that have died. Therefore, even if you've left the church, it's very likely that you're still counted as a Catholic year after year, even if you were never confirmed, never married Catholic, etc. The priests I've spoken to all say that they don't take into account those who have intentionally left the church due to ideological differences, or conversion to another faith due to marriage...certainly they don't factor in those who have become de facto ex-Catholics due to a loss of interest over time. As far as Rome's concerned, Dominic, you're probably one more Catholic for the books.
Makes you wonder how Rome will explain the stats if this generation of lapsed Catholics fails en masse to bring their children along for baptism. It used to be that even the most weaksauce Catholics would have their kids baptized, "just in case." I'm not so sure that's happening anymore.
21
Who's surprised? After all, it's a well-established fact that the Catholic establishment reckon it's better for an older man to force himself on unwilling children than it is for two people of the same gender to be in a committed, consensual relationship.
22
heywhatsit is correct... you can't leave. They can kick you out through excommunication, but you cannot voluntarily quit. I tried. The official church doctrine is that "baptism leaves an indelible mark upon your soul." You are stained for life. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.
24
It seems to me that it would not matter if you were on the Catholic churches roles. They do not come around and bug you or anything. There are a multitude of inactive Catholics. The church does not even know where they are. Or even care. The Catholic church does not keep track of its members like the Mormon church does.
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