Slog Comments
Police Swarm on Bellevue & Pine
3
god, people. just be really really nice and deferent to police for a while. it will save you a lot of trouble. even if if it makes you sick to do so. they are going to be freakin on point and paranoid for a while (rightfully so).
4
the city really isn't being protected when the cops are this freaked out ... how many police cruisers in town didn't show up at that spot tonight? methinks they seek revenge. not that I really blame them.
5
I walked by there right before the police came. There was some guy on the sidewalk in front of the mini-mart picking fights with people. I just avoided eye contact with him and he didn't say anything to me though.
7
Not that there's ever a -good- time, but right around now would be about the *worst* possible time to be starting shit with cops.
-Captain Obvious, that's me.
-Captain Obvious, that's me.
11
I don't care if one of their brothers got whacked. Any cop hopped up on sugar from too many Krispey Kremes who tries any of that revenge shit with me?...well, that's why God created fists!
12
I call bullshit on the "take it easy with the cops" line. I understand that their comrade got killed - it's horrible and should never have happened. That doesn't give them any sort of slack or right to act over-aggressively towards innocent people. The fact that people seem to think that it's ok is infuriating.
13
@11: Fists versus tasers, night sticks, & guns - not too smart. God also gave you a brain, try using it sometime.
14
@ 12, I haven't heard word one of anything happening to innocent people. I have heard of them swarming people who are suspicious for one reason or another, but not a single word of mistreatment or overreaction. Has anyone been tazed or shot or beaten?
Think before you type. It's a real necessity to writing good comments.
Think before you type. It's a real necessity to writing good comments.
15
"Suspicious" is a highly subjective term, Matt, although I like that you think "looking suspicious" equals "not innocent". A cop can abuse his or her power without ever actually physically harming someone. Maybe you should take a little time to parse your thoughts yourself :).
17
@14: it's just that "suspicious" is being applied pretty broadly right now. How long before someone makes a wrong move and some scared, trigger-happy civilian or cop escalates the situation?
18
@ 17, you can worry about that happening if it makes you feel better. I'd rather wait to get up in arms when something happens.
@ 16, you like to read into things, don't you? There is a difference between innocent (ie, minding your own business) and being suspicious (ie, ranting about cops in such a way that others are alarmed enough to call them); and also a difference between being suspicious and being guilty. Maybe you are confused (I see your passive-aggressive smiley face as additional evidence of that), but I'm not.
@ 16, you like to read into things, don't you? There is a difference between innocent (ie, minding your own business) and being suspicious (ie, ranting about cops in such a way that others are alarmed enough to call them); and also a difference between being suspicious and being guilty. Maybe you are confused (I see your passive-aggressive smiley face as additional evidence of that), but I'm not.
19
@18: You did read the story about Lynn Shelton's car being pulled over, right... for the terribly suspicious act of being LIGHT GRAY?
Did you mean to attack @16 or was that bile directed at someone else?
Did you mean to attack @16 or was that bile directed at someone else?
20
"god, people. just be really really nice and deferent to police for a while. it will save you a lot of trouble."
@ 12 "I call bullshit on the "take it easy with the cops" line"
Yeah, the assumption that the majority aren't already is absolute bullshit, as is the assumption that if someone's got it out for you already, that it'll magically make everything better.
I generally get along with the police well, but some exceptions when placed in places of authority are insufferable, no matter what the career.
@ 12 "I call bullshit on the "take it easy with the cops" line"
Yeah, the assumption that the majority aren't already is absolute bullshit, as is the assumption that if someone's got it out for you already, that it'll magically make everything better.
I generally get along with the police well, but some exceptions when placed in places of authority are insufferable, no matter what the career.
21
@ 19, you're right, I meant that for 15. Sorry 16.
But let's look at Shelton for a moment. Was she arrested? Beaten by the cops? Tased? Shot?
What, none of that happened? Well, then, what's the big deal? No one's rights are being violated.
In case you forgot, there is a very dangerous individual out there, and no telling what he may end up doing. That someone was driving a car similar to Shelton's, and yeah, it's inconvenient for anyone with an old white car (specifically an old white Datsun 210, not a '68 Ford so Shelton won't be pulled over again), but if you'd rather that the guy not be caught, then that's a lot more fucked up than anything the cops have done so far.
But let's look at Shelton for a moment. Was she arrested? Beaten by the cops? Tased? Shot?
What, none of that happened? Well, then, what's the big deal? No one's rights are being violated.
In case you forgot, there is a very dangerous individual out there, and no telling what he may end up doing. That someone was driving a car similar to Shelton's, and yeah, it's inconvenient for anyone with an old white car (specifically an old white Datsun 210, not a '68 Ford so Shelton won't be pulled over again), but if you'd rather that the guy not be caught, then that's a lot more fucked up than anything the cops have done so far.
22
@21 - Shelton was held at multiple gun points for driving a gray car. The guy up on Capitol Hill a couple of nights ago was held at multiple gunpoints, and handcuffed face down, before being released. Again, his only "crime" was driving a gray car.
Guns being pointed at innocent civilians is not acceptable. Nope, not even a little bit. I hope they catch the guy, but SPD needs to chill the fuck out.
Guns being pointed at innocent civilians is not acceptable. Nope, not even a little bit. I hope they catch the guy, but SPD needs to chill the fuck out.
23
Yes, it IS acceptable. Yes it IS, unless you want this guy to go free.
Is it scary to have 20 cops draw their guns on you? Fuck yeah, it is. Is it a violation of these people's rights? No, it's not. Has anyone been hurt? No. I find that all very acceptable. It will stop being acceptable when they cross the line. If anything, the fact that they've handled these situations coolly and let the innocent go should be reassuring to you.
Since it's apparent that it's not, let me ask you this. How would you have the police do to try to apprehend this guy? Do you think it deserves this kind of high profile response? Do you think the shooter is only after cops, so everyone else is safe? Do you think they should only have two or three police handle these scenes instead of 20-30 (which is actually typical when, say, a bank robber is being pursued)?
Is it scary to have 20 cops draw their guns on you? Fuck yeah, it is. Is it a violation of these people's rights? No, it's not. Has anyone been hurt? No. I find that all very acceptable. It will stop being acceptable when they cross the line. If anything, the fact that they've handled these situations coolly and let the innocent go should be reassuring to you.
Since it's apparent that it's not, let me ask you this. How would you have the police do to try to apprehend this guy? Do you think it deserves this kind of high profile response? Do you think the shooter is only after cops, so everyone else is safe? Do you think they should only have two or three police handle these scenes instead of 20-30 (which is actually typical when, say, a bank robber is being pursued)?
24
Thanks for clearing me, Matt, though I do admit the passive-aggressive accusation brought to mind all the well-meaning fellas I've snarked right out of my bed.
25
Matt, I think you might need to take a SLOG break and work on your recent troll-like behavior. (Forgive me if I've said this to you before.)
You're being totally irrational. Catching this criminal doesn't require this sort of overreaction. I understand that the police are scared but no other profession is given this kind of latitude for bad behavior.
You're being totally irrational. Catching this criminal doesn't require this sort of overreaction. I understand that the police are scared but no other profession is given this kind of latitude for bad behavior.
26
@ 25, this ain't trolling. Trolling is when someone says something deliberately inflammatory with the intent to piss people off and get some nice lulz out of it. I'm engaging in debate.
It's telling that when I point out the facts around these occurrences, and ask how things should be done differently, you respond that I'm being irrational. Um, what?
Sorry if that gets your goat, but I'm saying what I say with a pretty clear head and with careful consideration. If you can answer anything that I pointed out or questions that I posed, it's not me who is being irrational.
It's telling that when I point out the facts around these occurrences, and ask how things should be done differently, you respond that I'm being irrational. Um, what?
Sorry if that gets your goat, but I'm saying what I say with a pretty clear head and with careful consideration. If you can answer anything that I pointed out or questions that I posed, it's not me who is being irrational.
27
@23 -
Drunk driving is an inherently dangerous act (you know, sort of like pulling a gun on somebody). Using your logic, drunk driving is OK until you cause an accident.
"Do you think the shooter is only after cops, so everyone else is safe?"
When SPD responds to shootings of civilians in the same manner, then you can ask that question again.
Drunk driving is an inherently dangerous act (you know, sort of like pulling a gun on somebody). Using your logic, drunk driving is OK until you cause an accident.
"Do you think the shooter is only after cops, so everyone else is safe?"
When SPD responds to shootings of civilians in the same manner, then you can ask that question again.
29
OK: Matt, humor me: Replace "light gray sedan" with "5'10" black man" and tell me it's still reasonable to stop the car and point 20 hand guns at it. This is obviously not as bad as racial profiling, but it's about as rational.
30
I'm with Matt on this one. I admire his ability to continue arguing with people who won't change their minds until they grow up a little.
Nothing says "I'm 16 with big swinging balls and an empty head" more than pretending to hate the po-po.
I'll take the bait, however, @29 -- Cite one case -- any single case -- in the last ten years that SPD failed to respond appropriately to the shooting murder of a civilian.
Do you really not understand why this murder case is a higher profile for SPD than other murders right now?
Nothing says "I'm 16 with big swinging balls and an empty head" more than pretending to hate the po-po.
I'll take the bait, however, @29 -- Cite one case -- any single case -- in the last ten years that SPD failed to respond appropriately to the shooting murder of a civilian.
Do you really not understand why this murder case is a higher profile for SPD than other murders right now?
31
Holding people of dubious suspicion at multiple gunpoint is definitely not ok. All it takes is one for one of them to accidentally reach in their pocket for their ID, cellphone, whatever, and then they will shoot. Especially if all they have to go on is a vague description of a common car color(s). I know the police are upset by this murder, as with the majority of the community, but this is unacceptable. If they had a solid lead on a suspect, like matching plates, or a name, I could understand, but they don't.
I guess I'm referring to the two previous incidents, but twenty squad cars to deal with the common drunk crazies on Pine St. at night? Really?
I guess I'm referring to the two previous incidents, but twenty squad cars to deal with the common drunk crazies on Pine St. at night? Really?
32
Well... how many old white beaters like this are on the road? Probably a very small number, especially now that they know that it's an 80-83 Datsun 210. How many black men around 5'10" are there in Seattle? Probably thousands, especially if you include all ages.
No, I don't see the comparison as being apt. (Similarly, the comparison of drunk driving to gun pulling @ 27 isn't apt either, unless the cops are drunk which I doubt they are.)
No, I don't see the comparison as being apt. (Similarly, the comparison of drunk driving to gun pulling @ 27 isn't apt either, unless the cops are drunk which I doubt they are.)
33
I hope they catch these guys soon. The police are very much on edge right now, and I really hope no one innocent gets shot.
Please remember that some assholes in a white or gray Datsun 210 started this. Direct your anger towards them, not towards the good people who are just trying to stay alive while doing their jobs.
I find it helps if you imagine what your job would be like if most of the people you served hated you and one of them was actively trying to kill you.
Please remember that some assholes in a white or gray Datsun 210 started this. Direct your anger towards them, not towards the good people who are just trying to stay alive while doing their jobs.
I find it helps if you imagine what your job would be like if most of the people you served hated you and one of them was actively trying to kill you.
34
Matt @26,
To answer your questions:
"How would you have the police do to try to apprehend this guy?"
-With handcuffs and a weapon as backup if needed.
"Do you think it deserves this kind of high profile response?"
-no
"Do you think the shooter is only after cops, so everyone else is safe?"
-He's probably after just cops but that doesn't make everyone else safe (from criminals or cops).
"Do you think they should only have two or three police handle these scenes instead of 20-30 (which is actually typical when, say, a bank robber is being pursued)?"
-Yes.
You might not agree but that's just your opinion.
To answer your questions:
"How would you have the police do to try to apprehend this guy?"
-With handcuffs and a weapon as backup if needed.
"Do you think it deserves this kind of high profile response?"
-no
"Do you think the shooter is only after cops, so everyone else is safe?"
-He's probably after just cops but that doesn't make everyone else safe (from criminals or cops).
"Do you think they should only have two or three police handle these scenes instead of 20-30 (which is actually typical when, say, a bank robber is being pursued)?"
-Yes.
You might not agree but that's just your opinion.
35
@30: I don't really get your point. I am saying they are treating this much more seriously than they would treat a civilian case. This doesn't mean they haven't shown civilian murders enough respect/investigation, just that I strongly doubt that if area man John Doe, had been shot by someone driving a light grey sedan, they would start stopping everyone driving one.
My point isn't that they don't do enough normally, but that they're responding way too heavily now.
I want the killer caught as much as any of you. I just don't think unnecessarily harassing and frightening they people the police are sworn to protect is the best way to do this.
I've said my piece.
My point isn't that they don't do enough normally, but that they're responding way too heavily now.
I want the killer caught as much as any of you. I just don't think unnecessarily harassing and frightening they people the police are sworn to protect is the best way to do this.
I've said my piece.
36
@33:
This is my fear too. It's not that I don't respect and appreciate the police, I'm just scared of what could happen if we don't catch the killer soon.
The police are very much on edge right now, and I really hope no one innocent gets shot.
This is my fear too. It's not that I don't respect and appreciate the police, I'm just scared of what could happen if we don't catch the killer soon.
37
@ 30, I do understand where a lot of these people are coming from. Cops often are assholes, and SPD has a somewhat deserved reputation for being trigger-happy with black suspects. And they do sometimes overreact - I believe it was a KC sheriff's deputy and not a cop who tackled that kid at the Cinerama and put him in a coma. And the fact that nothing has happened so far doesn't mean that something won't happen the next time.
But... I do want people to keep perspective here. Once again, no one who was swarmed was tased, beaten, or shot; once it was determined that they weren't a suspect, they were let go or arrested for whatever they were doing that got the cops' attention in the first place (like the guy in Ballard who was causing a disturbance). If you really believe that they're overreacting, that's your opinion. But I'd appreciate it if you consider the questions I posed rather than move the goalposts by saying "Well what if they were doing blah blah blah..." They aren't doing blah blah blah, they're trying to find a killer based on what little they know about him. If you have something in common with him (like you drive an old Datsun or you like to spout off about killing cops in public), you ought to be prepared to be accosted and be ready to show you're not who they're looking for.
But... I do want people to keep perspective here. Once again, no one who was swarmed was tased, beaten, or shot; once it was determined that they weren't a suspect, they were let go or arrested for whatever they were doing that got the cops' attention in the first place (like the guy in Ballard who was causing a disturbance). If you really believe that they're overreacting, that's your opinion. But I'd appreciate it if you consider the questions I posed rather than move the goalposts by saying "Well what if they were doing blah blah blah..." They aren't doing blah blah blah, they're trying to find a killer based on what little they know about him. If you have something in common with him (like you drive an old Datsun or you like to spout off about killing cops in public), you ought to be prepared to be accosted and be ready to show you're not who they're looking for.
38
@12 and others are right - there are a lot of veterans in this city, normal people like you and me, who have been shot at a heck of a lot more often by a lot more people trying to kill them, and had a lot more of their colleagues killed as a result.
The cops have no excuse.
Be professional. Don't go off on people just because of what happened.
The cops have no excuse.
Be professional. Don't go off on people just because of what happened.
39
I saw this whole thing. There were two Metro police cars (one SUV, one sedan) and two Metro cops restraining a guy on the sidewalk at the bus stop at Bellevue and Pine (Northeast corner on Bellevue).
A bare chested Native American guy (pretty tall, pretty drunk) was approaching and moving away from the cops making threatening noises and gestures. The cops warned him if he came closer he'd be tazed.
Then, 10-15 SPD cars showed up, all at once. Officers jumped out, ordered the shirtless guy to the ground, and cuffed him. Other officers directed traffic. Many officers had nothing to do.
My guess: the Metro cops radioed in a threat, and the SPD took it very seriously. They're on a hair trigger now. Not a good time to be a drunk belligerent with the police.
A bare chested Native American guy (pretty tall, pretty drunk) was approaching and moving away from the cops making threatening noises and gestures. The cops warned him if he came closer he'd be tazed.
Then, 10-15 SPD cars showed up, all at once. Officers jumped out, ordered the shirtless guy to the ground, and cuffed him. Other officers directed traffic. Many officers had nothing to do.
My guess: the Metro cops radioed in a threat, and the SPD took it very seriously. They're on a hair trigger now. Not a good time to be a drunk belligerent with the police.
Comments (39) RSS