Nov 20, 2011
John Sawyer commented on
Police Evicted from Occupy UC Davis after Pepper Spraying Peaceful Protesters.
#85: Whether or not the mayors of each of the cities with an Occupy encampment are "liberal", has often had little or nothing to do with whether the encampments have been raided or not, and how the protesters have been treated. The mayors of Oakland and Portland are generally considered liberal, after a fashion, but those are two cities where the beatdown of protesters has been among the worst. And I don't know how to characterize Republican NYC mayor Bloomberg, though some people may call him a liberal Republican (sometimes)--either way, he doesn't fit your picture of things either, because NYC's Occupy protesters have been treated pretty roughly too, and he has spoken out against them regularly. Can you actually name any particular city which has a "liberal" mayor, who has treated its Occupy encampment well, shepherding them with a "careful eye"? There may be one or more, but I haven't been following that aspect, so I don't know. I don't really know what you expect to gain by making an argument on this particular point, when the facts are so obviously counter to what you're saying about it.
As for civil disobedience "requiring" there to be actual opposition from the governing authority: valid civil disobedience can be practiced against ANY authority, whether it's federal, state, local, a business, a law, etc.--it's never been defined as being legitimate only if it's against a particular authority, and with particular risks involved. In this case, the general authorities being opposed are those responsible for income inequality, both in business and in government; and the specific authorities being directly encountered, who are responsible for the beatdown, are the mayors, city councils, police departments, etc. of many of the cities where an Occupy camp is located. It doesn't matter if the specific authorities actually doing the enforcement are different from the ones who are more generally being opposed, when there are still beatings and chemical attacks involved. Both the economic problems the US is facing, and the on-the-street attacks, which are attacks against one valid form of freedom of speech, are actual risk, and these are being opposed.
More...
...Less
Nov 19, 2011
John Sawyer commented on
Police Evicted from Occupy UC Davis after Pepper Spraying Peaceful Protesters.
@ Ken Mehlman, #79: LJM @ #67 said nothing about the protesters not resisting the officer--LJM said: "none of the protesters were violent or violently resisting arrest". The key word is "violent". As you say, they were passively resisting. Use of pepper spray should not be standard when someone is passively resisting, especially when they're simply sitting and waiting to be arrested. The video doesn't show any officers doing what they should have done, and what the students expected: simply arresting the students by picking them up and handcuffing them.
Nov 19, 2011
John Sawyer commented on
Police Evicted from Occupy UC Davis after Pepper Spraying Peaceful Protesters.
The fact that the police left, only after the crowd told them they'd be given a chance to do so, implies the police may really have been trying to provoke an incident, hoping to be attacked by the crowd so that the police could start beating people. Once the crowd told the police, and showed them, that the protesters would not attack (not that they planned to do that anyway), the police saw that they no longer had even a shred of pseudo-legal justification by which to attack the crowd. Otherwise, the police would have simply arrested the kids sitting on the sidewalk, and left on their own.
Notice that the crowd had the police surrounded on three sides, and left one side relatively open for the police to retreat. That's the right tactic.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostert…
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/20/opinio…