Jan 5, 2012 wiser commented on Savage Love.
@98: Hi again. Your comment about my comment (@89) was interesting because I think we're KIND OF talking about 2 different things (this kind of goes off-topic so most people reading this might not be interested). I was speaking more of the pain experienced during the split as opposed to who winds up happier eventually. My husband and I are going through counseling (both individually and with a couples therapist)to try to save our marriage. The damage came about as a result of non-monogomy and of course there's much more to it than that and I won't (nor would I have the space to) bore you with the details. I think this issue (who suffers more) perhaps has little to do, per se,with whether a monogamish lifestyle is valid or not or whatever and more to do with the difference between how men and women experience things emotionally. I don't think my husband has felt anything NEAR the pain that I have DURING this process, but if we do split I can envision that eventually I will be more at peace and he will have more regrets. I think, in general, that women are more reflective and examine and even wallow in their pain, while men are more inclined to protect themselves by avoiding it. Then later, when the dust clears, men may come to see and understand things about their true feelings when it's too late. This is, of course, a big generalization, but anecdotally (i.e. discussions with friends who have split)it is often the case.
More...
Jan 4, 2012 wiser commented on Savage Love.
@82: just to be clear, I'm not talking about when relationships end in general; I'm talking about who gets hurt when a relationship ends as a direct result of the non-monogamy.
And I could be wrong when it comes to couples in their 20s and 30s, but the reality of western (and perhaps especially American) culture being what it is vis a vis what makes a woman sexually desirable, I find it easier to imagine middle-aged men being very enthusiastic and reaping considerable benefit if it is more the norm to accept (and perhaps expect) extra-marital sex than I can middle-aged women. To quote the classical sage D. Bowie: "Ooohh look out...pretty soon now you're gonna get older".
Jan 4, 2012 wiser commented on Savage Love.
sorry for double post :-(
Jan 4, 2012 wiser commented on Savage Love.
I think that marriage (or LTRs) can mean different things for different people and insisting on a narrow definition for it is stupid and really nobody's business.I agree with @18 that there needs to be a distinction between a couple that's monogamous maybe 90% of the time and occasionally engages in one-offs with other people versus couples that do so frequently and/or with long-term thirds or fourths or whatever. Regardless, speaking as a woman whose experience fell into the latter category, let me tell you it can lead to bucketloads of pain. Notice that I said 'can'. While Dan has always advocated for clarity and caution when entering into these types of arrangements, I think that there are probably many who don't heed that advice or are naive and don't appreciate how things can change or how fucking complicated feelings can get. Are there more couples for whom this is a disaster (as many therapists would no doubt tell you) or more couples for whom it works great and enhances their relationship so they don't go to therapists? Who knows? This seems to be about removing any stigma attached to non-traditional relationships and I'm all for that, but it's not good/bad or right/wrong. And here's a theory that's probably going to get me into trouble with this crowd: my suspicion is that, at least as far as straight couples go, when things go south with these types of arrangements it is more often the woman who gets hurt. And should it become more of an acceptable lifestyle and society-sanctioned option, that would continue to be the case.
More...
Jan 4, 2012 wiser joined My Stranger Face
Jan 4, 2012 wiser joined My Stranger Face
Jan 4, 2012 wiser commented on Savage Love.
I think that marriage (or LTRs) can mean different things for different people and insisting on a narrow definition for it is stupid and really nobody's business.I agree with @18 that there needs to be a distinction between a couple that's monogamous maybe 90% of the time and occasionally engages in one-offs with other people versus couples that do so frequently and/or with long-term thirds or fourths or whatever. Regardless, speaking as a woman whose experience fell into the latter category, let me tell you it can lead to bucketloads of pain. Notice that I said 'can'. While Dan has always advocated for clarity and caution when entering into these types of arrangements, I think that there are probably many who don't heed that advice or are naive and don't appreciate how things can change or how fucking complicated feelings can get. Are there more couples for whom this is a disaster (as many therapists would no doubt tell you) or more couples for whom it works great and enhances their relationship so they don't go to therapists? Who knows? This seems to be about removing any stigma attached to non-traditional relationships and I'm all for that, but it's not good/bad or right/wrong. And here's a theory that's probably going to get me into trouble with this crowd: my suspicion is that, at least as far as straight couples go, when things go south with these types of arrangements it is more often the woman who gets hurt. And should it become more of an acceptable lifestyle and society-sanctioned option, that would continue to be the case.
More...