Jan 8
TheBigRagu commented on SL Letter of the Day: A Married Bi Man Makes His Move.
So if he didn't want to have sex with other men, but rather other women, would the advice change? Is there something about the attraction to men that suggests this is less salvageable? Because unfortunately, this comes across as a huge selfish shit-sandwich for his wife. I can't help but think if it was other women he wanted to bang that there would be more consideration of a third major option: "see if we can fix/save this without opening it up". Kudos to him for talking to her, but to me it sounds like they wore out the argument without ever trying to figure out why her libido is down and what they could do to rev it up again (or at least get her committed to helping to resolve it some other acceptable way). The way he describes her response sounds like a like spin. Another possible way to look at that would be "I don't usually feel like having sex because I generally don't feel attractive/sexy at all. When I do have sex it's because I feel like if I don't at all then you ACTUALLY aren't attracted to me" I don't think that's unusual at all, and I think married couples do find ways to work through that without assuming a permanent mantle of misery or opening up the marriage.
To put it another way the choices stack up as:
(1) We work together to see if there's a way I can live up to the promise of monogamy that I made without knowing if it will work despite our best efforts.
(2) We throw out the old promise and make a new one of monogamish without knowing if either of us will still want to stay together as we start trying it out.
(3) We break up.
All suck for her. But #1 at least aims at living up to the commitment/promise he originally made. Otherwise it's a 'take it or leave it' conversation with no compromise from him in her favor. If he could rule out the feasibility of #1 there wouldn't be a point. But he hasn't.
More...
To put it another way the choices stack up as:
(1) We work together to see if there's a way I can live up to the promise of monogamy that I made without knowing if it will work despite our best efforts.
(2) We throw out the old promise and make a new one of monogamish without knowing if either of us will still want to stay together as we start trying it out.
(3) We break up.
All suck for her. But #1 at least aims at living up to the commitment/promise he originally made. Otherwise it's a 'take it or leave it' conversation with no compromise from him in her favor. If he could rule out the feasibility of #1 there wouldn't be a point. But he hasn't.
Jan 6
TheBigRagu commented on Purity Culture Is Rape Culture.
#29, #43, #83, #84: Very thought-provoking responses. I was and am having a hard time figuring out what is 'purity' culture. I get the extreme side better now (don't 'encourage' bad behavior in men in what you wear, etc)...and there I more easily see your points. And I think on the moderate side you have the folks that say "Wait until you are married to have sex". There I didn't see as clear a connection between purity culture and rape culture. But your points help me see that a little better now. The idea that sex is shameful, especially for unmarried women, can create an atmosphere that is more intimidating for someone to report a rape. And it's generally not intentional on the part of those who have that 'shame' perspective, but it's a sad effect of it.
So thanks. Good points politely put and I concede. And apologize if my initial response was insensitive.
So thanks. Good points politely put and I concede. And apologize if my initial response was insensitive.
Jan 4
TheBigRagu commented on Purity Culture Is Rape Culture.
I don't agree that someone who believes in purity culture automatically believes non-virgins deserve to be raped. Just like someone who believes in god doesn't deserve to automatically be lumped in with Westboro Baptist lunatics. I think the purity things is misguided, but it's not that misguided. And while I'd love for prudes to get more realistic about sexual health, I don't agree that this kind of hyperbole will help bring them around.
Oct 10, 2012
TheBigRagu commented on Savage Love.
Whether he'd marry her has nothing to do with his consistency or stance. He could marry her and she might still want an abortion. Marriage <> keeping the baby. He could also say "Hey I'll support you through the pregancy and adopt the baby afterwards, regardless of what happens to us."
What I think is very relevant is whether this guy is 'anti-choice' ie believes no one should get to decide, or 'making a choice' ie if it was him that was pregnant (I know impossible but it's hypothetical) he would prefer to keep the baby? Because there is a world of difference between the two. I was listening for clues and while she says he feels strongly she doesn't say that he would deny anyone their right to choose (even if they choose differently than he would).
The fake pregnancy suggestion is lose-lose. If he says 'abort it' then she's looking at someone who is a hypocrite, he's looking at a crazy liar (because let's face it faking a pregnancy gets you instant batshit cred), and neither wants to be with each other anymore. If he stays consistent ("I prefer to keep the baby..whatever that requires from me") then she has to deal with how they would handle the conflict (presuming she would potentially choose differently).
So instead take the more ethical hypothetical right into that conflict: "Boyfriend, what would you do if I accidentally got pregnant, and despite your strong feelings against it I chose to get an abortion? Would we still be together?" I think his answer to that is more telling. Because if he says "We'd be done." then she can end it now. Or he could say "I'd deal" then she can keep the relationship (if she believes him). And if he says "I don't know but let's do our best to not have an unplanned pregnancy and I'm willing to take the risk that we would face this difficult decision down the road" then she can decide if she wants to take her chances. I'd probably trust this last response over "I'd deal".
I believe in the right to choose. However, when my ex-wife and I had a condom-break scenario my personal feelings about abortion had me begging her to get plan B so I wouldn't have to face the possibility of our coming out on different sides of the abortion decision (I know there's those out there who see no difference between plan B and an abortion...but I do). If she had decided to have an abortion it would weigh on me (yes it's her choice, but I would have felt in some part at least indirectly morally responsible for the outcome).
More...
What I think is very relevant is whether this guy is 'anti-choice' ie believes no one should get to decide, or 'making a choice' ie if it was him that was pregnant (I know impossible but it's hypothetical) he would prefer to keep the baby? Because there is a world of difference between the two. I was listening for clues and while she says he feels strongly she doesn't say that he would deny anyone their right to choose (even if they choose differently than he would).
The fake pregnancy suggestion is lose-lose. If he says 'abort it' then she's looking at someone who is a hypocrite, he's looking at a crazy liar (because let's face it faking a pregnancy gets you instant batshit cred), and neither wants to be with each other anymore. If he stays consistent ("I prefer to keep the baby..whatever that requires from me") then she has to deal with how they would handle the conflict (presuming she would potentially choose differently).
So instead take the more ethical hypothetical right into that conflict: "Boyfriend, what would you do if I accidentally got pregnant, and despite your strong feelings against it I chose to get an abortion? Would we still be together?" I think his answer to that is more telling. Because if he says "We'd be done." then she can end it now. Or he could say "I'd deal" then she can keep the relationship (if she believes him). And if he says "I don't know but let's do our best to not have an unplanned pregnancy and I'm willing to take the risk that we would face this difficult decision down the road" then she can decide if she wants to take her chances. I'd probably trust this last response over "I'd deal".
I believe in the right to choose. However, when my ex-wife and I had a condom-break scenario my personal feelings about abortion had me begging her to get plan B so I wouldn't have to face the possibility of our coming out on different sides of the abortion decision (I know there's those out there who see no difference between plan B and an abortion...but I do). If she had decided to have an abortion it would weigh on me (yes it's her choice, but I would have felt in some part at least indirectly morally responsible for the outcome).
Sep 4, 2012
TheBigRagu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Free Spirit, My Ass.
I can see how this happens.
If you look at this the same way that Dan often looks at monogamy and how folks struggle with it, it's almost the exact reverse situation. In the monogamy scenario, they try what is expected...conventional monogamy...and they fail. Dan suggests that most people can't make monogamy work, and that more relationships might be successful if they're monogam-ish.
Here she wants to be open-minded, to be conventionally GGG. It's how she sees herself. In that mindset it would almost be a flaw to NOT be open to it. So to avoid exposing a potential flaw in her altruistic view of herself (which is really no flaw at all) she agrees a relationship that is built on the expectation that she will be cool with it forever more. And commits a far more grievous (and REAL) mistake because she can't back it up.
So just like someone who is a CPOS who can't live up to their monogamy promise, she gets the verbal beatdown for not living up to her swinging promise. But in the big picture, I think there is a similar lesson here to the one Dan often draws about monogamy: many people can't make non-monogamy work. They shouldn't get caught up in trying to live up to some 'sex positive' ideal. If you like monogamy, own it. And I know, monogamy as the 'conventional norm' doesn't need Dan to stick up for it. At least, I think that's true in the broader sense. But I think it's nice when Dan reminds us (and he often does...thanks!), especially his longtime readers, that you are not 'sex-negative' just because you prefer monogamy.
More...
If you look at this the same way that Dan often looks at monogamy and how folks struggle with it, it's almost the exact reverse situation. In the monogamy scenario, they try what is expected...conventional monogamy...and they fail. Dan suggests that most people can't make monogamy work, and that more relationships might be successful if they're monogam-ish.
Here she wants to be open-minded, to be conventionally GGG. It's how she sees herself. In that mindset it would almost be a flaw to NOT be open to it. So to avoid exposing a potential flaw in her altruistic view of herself (which is really no flaw at all) she agrees a relationship that is built on the expectation that she will be cool with it forever more. And commits a far more grievous (and REAL) mistake because she can't back it up.
So just like someone who is a CPOS who can't live up to their monogamy promise, she gets the verbal beatdown for not living up to her swinging promise. But in the big picture, I think there is a similar lesson here to the one Dan often draws about monogamy: many people can't make non-monogamy work. They shouldn't get caught up in trying to live up to some 'sex positive' ideal. If you like monogamy, own it. And I know, monogamy as the 'conventional norm' doesn't need Dan to stick up for it. At least, I think that's true in the broader sense. But I think it's nice when Dan reminds us (and he often does...thanks!), especially his longtime readers, that you are not 'sex-negative' just because you prefer monogamy.
May 3, 2012
TheBigRagu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Monogamously Non-Monogamous.
The unexplored bi- thing is probably the biggest driver here, and I do give him kudos for being upfront about it. But the "I wouldn't be jealous of you thing" sends off alarm bells for me in terms of his interest in monogamy overall. He can talk to you about the bi- thing and come across like a wounded soul, playing on your LGBT-friendliness. He's probably a lot more hesitant to talk about any desire for a pass to get it on with other women too. I've been in a similar situation, and to me there was a power dynamics thing about it that poisoned my relationship to some extent. Boiled down to my girlfriend was willing to lose the relationship to get what she wanted, even as a temporary pass. I was willing to suffer non-monogamy for a period of time to keep her. In retrospect I wish I had just made it a breakup at that point with the idea that she could look me up later if I was still available. Keeping up my relationship with her while she did this for several months put what is likely a permanent imbalance in our relationship. I'm not dinging those who are cool with letting their partner do this. I just know myself, and I wasn't cool with it. And I did it anyway, because I was afraid of being alone.
More...
Apr 3, 2012
TheBigRagu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Tales of the Monogamous.
I was bummed that you chose such a monogamish-ish couple for your representative letter. I'm open/liberal/progressive about a lot of things. I respect those who prefer monogamish, poly, etc., especially when they can own it and communicate it to potential partners up front. But when it comes to my relationship, I want one that is traditionally monogamous. I respect those who prefer monogamish, poly, etc., especially when they can own it and communicate it to potential partners up front. I am someone who could have been happy with one partner my whole life. Unfortunately, 17 years into my relationship my partner determined that she wasn't :-(
Anyhoo, I appreciate the responses from those who like monogamy and have years and years of success at it. Was hoping for the posted letter to be of that variety.
Anyhoo, I appreciate the responses from those who like monogamy and have years and years of success at it. Was hoping for the posted letter to be of that variety.
Feb 23, 2012
TheBigRagu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Infantile-ism.
If it would make you feel uncomfortable for your bf to go visit an old fling solo, then don't go visit your old fling solo. And tell your bf it would make you uncomfortable if the situation were reversed. If this relationship is so important to you, why would you fuck with it? I know you claim not to have feelings anymore. But it seems to me like a recipe for relationship destruction. I think it should be ok to establish relationship boundaries like this, as long as you both feel comfortable agreeing to them. And if you don't, maybe you should work that out now so you don't get surprised down the road.
Sep 9, 2011
TheBigRagu commented on SL Letter of the Day: Delete As You Blow.
To put it differently, if your boyfriend is so great, why are you actively engaging in activities you know or strongly suspect would make the relationship kaput. As Dan notes, this isn't zero-risk behavior, even if she covers her own tracks effectively at home. I think the answer is that you don't really love/value the boyfriend as much as you think you do or should. This is just the first foray into looking around for someone else. As Dan also suggested, it's highly unlikely if this dude moved to within driving distance she could resist the urge to nail him in person.
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
A lot of the time the tone I get in these letters or the comments/responses is that any sign of jealousy makes the jealous person an insecure jerk. But I think sometimes it's just someone figuring out those boundaries and finally trying to communicate them to someone they may both love and fear losing. So while one person may say "It's all good as long as there's no vaginal/anal/oral/masturbation", another might say "No going out on 'platonic' dates". Neither of those things seem unreasonable to me, but I think it's important to get on the same page for those things pretty early on. I know I wouldn't want to go out with someone who would go on and on about the fun time they just had with their ex-sex partner, even if they are now just friends. Does that make me insecure? Sure but consider this befoer calling me a jerk: If you are into monogamy then there is something your partner could do to push your insecure button. Flirt in front of you. Make comments in front of you to their friend about how hot your neighbor is. Disappear into the coat check area with said neighbor. Be in bed with someone who is not you when you get home. It's a sliding scale, and you're not a jerk if it's not just the last item that could make you concerned.
And if you really want to be in an exclusive relationship, then you should expect to modify your behavior a bit from free agent mode. Stop flirting. Don't work so hard to keep up your relationships with your exes. etc.