http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/06/04/governor-cuomo-wants-to-end-a-racist-policy Comments On: Governor Cuomo Wants to End a Racist Policy by Dominic Holden en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Wed, 22 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Wed, 22 May 2013 03:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss "Since most misdemeanor marijuana arrests result from 'stop and frisks', the large number of such arrests before Bloomberg was mayor (41,800 in 2001, 51,500 in 2000) support my hypothesis that in those days the NYPD did as many or more 'stop and frisks' but rarely created any record of such encounters unless they resulted in an arrest or citation."

So by your logic that should mean that the number of 'stop and frisk' searches equaled the number of arrests.

From #28
"In 2002, 97,296 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
80,176 were totally innocent (82 percent)."

So somehow the cops were using 'stop and frisk' and not filling out the paperwork if nothing was found except in the vast majority (82%) of cases where they did fill out the paperwork when nothing was found.

Again from #28
"In 2011, 685,724 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent)."

So the percent of 'stop and frisk' where nothing is found remains similar (82% vs 88%) but you are claiming that the 82% is really something like .... math happens ...
97.5%

Here's the math that went into that number.
97,296 (reported stops) minus 80,176 (innocent) is 17,120 (found something)
685,724 (the number you claim is probably nearer the real number of stops) divided by 17,120 (found something)
0.024966313
or rounded up a bit to
2.5% of all the stops you CLAIM happened (but were not documented) resulted in an arrest.
97.5% INNOCENT out of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF STOPS

So 2.5% of stops were stops of criminals in 2002
but 9 years later (2011) that number increases to 18%
In other words, you are claiming that there was an almost 700% INCREASE in criminal activity during those 9 years.

But you have nothing to back up that claim except your desire to see this program as not racist.

Posted by fairly.unbalanced]]> Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:42:38 -0700 The Stranger
http://www.nyclu.org/files/MARIJUANA-ARR…
Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Tue, 05 Jun 2012 21:57:16 -0700 The Stranger
A 600% change is a mighty accounting error.

The NYPD actually keeps really close track of these things, because officer's have quotas to make in terms of s&fs.
Posted by Asparagus!]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:08:37 -0700 The Stranger "My sad attempt ... ."

Internet expert is an expert when on the Internet.

"If minority youths don't like being hassled by cops they should stop breaking the law."

I don't think you understand statistics. The statistics show that the overwhelming majority stopped by the cops were NOT breaking the law.

"I think I know something about the minority experience in America."

No. I don't think you do.

"Perhaps middle class black commit fewer crimes because it is harder for them to get away with stuff."

No. I don't think you know a single thing about "the minority experience in America".
Posted by fairly.unbalanced]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:51:12 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:41:56 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:23:28 -0700 The Stranger
You managed to get the entirely backwards. Congrats.
Posted by The CD used to be a nice area]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:13:11 -0700 The Stranger "Do know any black people, FA?"

Why yes I do. And they seem no more prone to criminal activity than the whites that I know. But then, I'm not a bigot. But I do understand statistics.

"If minority youths don't like being hassled by cops they should stop breaking the law."

The statistics show that the ones being "hassled by the cops" were NOT breaking the law. Otherwise there would be a more 1:1 relationship between people stopped and people arrested for a crime.

Only bigots see 1 black committing a crime as being indicative of all blacks committing crimes.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:11:06 -0700 The Stranger "@20 If minority youths don't like being hassled by cops they should stop breaking the law."

88% of the stops ended with no charges filed.
Posted by NaFun]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:10:06 -0700 The Stranger http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justi…

"In 2002, 97,296 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
80,176 were totally innocent (82 percent)."

...

"In 2011, 685,724 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent).
350,743 were black (53 percent).
223,740 were Latino (34 percent).
61,805 were white (9 percent).
341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent)."

You do the math.


Posted by NaFun]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:08:12 -0700 The Stranger Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:59:38 -0700 The Stranger Also, your bigotry is showing.
Posted by moosefan]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:47:54 -0700 The Stranger
@16 Do know any black people, FA?

@20 If minority youths don't like being hassled by cops they should stop breaking the law.
Posted by Ken Mehlman]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:40:08 -0700 The Stranger #6 conflates murder suspects and murders without noticing that there are only 285 murder suspects for the 536 murders. In some cases, one suspect was arrested for multiple murders, but many murders just never had suspects associated with them. In any case saying that, for example, non-hispanic whites committed only 4% of the murders, is unsupportable. What the numbers do show is that you are much more likely to be arrested for a murder if you are black and have criminal record.

If the police mainly suspect African Americans, Latinos and people with criminal records of murder, then they're going to become the bulk of the people arrested for murder in the city. There's clearly an opportunity for a lot of statistical feedback here. It would make sense that someone would be much less likely to get away with murder if they were already on the police's radar.

Lastly, in both posts you're assuming that the murder suspects all actually committed the murders. Almost certainly some did. Almost certainly some did not.
Posted by dirge]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:38:53 -0700 The Stranger
@15 - I live in an 80% black city, and I have no car. I walk everywhere. I'm not saying I'm immune to crime, but I've never had a problem. Do you seriously believe that walking through a black neighborhood is really that dangerous? Get out of the house (and your little bubble) a little more.
Posted by MR M]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:28:11 -0700 The Stranger Posted by moosefan]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:24:15 -0700 The Stranger
And NYC's drop was disproportionately large even in the face of that. Stop-and-frisk, Compstat, and actually bothering with the little things (like frisking fare jumpers) made a huge difference.
Posted by Reader01]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:23:55 -0700 The Stranger Posted by moosefan]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:13:04 -0700 The Stranger
And @2 - Pretty much every American city was a cesspool in the early 90s. Since then crime has fallen all over the country, regardless of whether the city you're looking at had a stop-and-frisk policy or not. So no, it wasn't "instrumental", it only appears that way if you set your focus too narrow.
Posted by I have always been... east coaster]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:10:18 -0700 The Stranger I'd be a lot less suspicious of a black guy in Harlem than a young white woman. Because what the fuck is a young white woman doing alone in a neighborhood that's 90+% black and latino at 2AM?

You're funny. Harlem has been gentrifying for over a decade.
Posted by keshmeshi]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 13:07:52 -0700 The Stranger
things I like =/= constitutional
things I don't like =/= unconstitutional

hth
Posted by Reader01]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:59:44 -0700 The Stranger "Just to play devil's advocate, are any of you limousine liberals comfortable with walking through an all-black neighborhood, particularly at night?"

I have done so in the past without any problems.

Oh, you're trying to conflate "high crime" with "all-black".
Too bad for you they aren't the same.

High crime neighborhoods tend towards lower property values which make the accessible to lower economic classes.
Unfortunately, due to racism, a lot of blacks are in the lower economic classes and have to live in neighborhoods with high crime rates.

@10
Yes, I think you've made your opinions quite clear in previous threads.

"Perhaps middle class black commit fewer crimes because it is harder for them to get away with stuff. "

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Comme…
Posted by fairly.unbalanced]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:57:42 -0700 The Stranger
As an aside, the dissolution of Rhodesia into Zimbabwe and the running out of the whites, seems to have had counterproductive results for that nation. White guilt seems to make this crime seem more acceptable. Had the pattern been reversed, well, there would have been a great deal more international clamoring.

Under this light, using the drug war as a way to control black crime seems totally plausible and perhaps even reasonable. And I don't know how else to put this, but racially diverse, cosmopolitan societies such as our own seem doomed to ridiculously high crime rates relative to other developed nations and prone to continuous civil upheaval and racial rioting. Following WWI, many of the world's nations were redrawn predominantly according to ethnic boundaries because, it seems, the world's leaders assumed different ethnic groups have a poor track record of getting along. Now were they totally off-base or was this in any way based upon some history or experience?

Here's a good one, while on that topic. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, despite having an illustrious history replete both with very effective Lithuanian and Polish kings, seems to have inculcated no mutual love between these two ethnic groups, as Poles and Lithuanians absolutely loathe each other today. Perhaps some of this is due to the Polish-Soviet War of the post-WWI period, but I can't imagine that being the sole reason.

It's nice to see that the conservatives are much better these days at propaganda than our contemporaneous liberals. More reasonably, though, this is just the natural pushback to some the more obscene excesses of sixties radicalism. If there was a god, I would imagine he would be a god of dark humor, hurling epidemic disease upon the sexually liberal and crack-cocaine upon already poverty-stricken African-Americans.
Posted by Central Scrutinizer]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:45:07 -0700 The Stranger
It seems the police are not profiling properly, and simply stopping people solely based on race. Your are certainly correct in your marijuana/drunk person analogy however. Total bullshit.
Posted by Theodore Gorath]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:40:27 -0700 The Stranger
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/15/nyregi…

In 2011, 685,724 New Yorkers were stopped by the police.
605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent).
350,743 were black (53 percent).
223,740 were Latino (34 percent).
61,805 were white (9 percent).
341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent).

http://www.nyclu.org/issues/racial-justi…

“There is no evidence that stop and frisk is lowering or suppressing the murder rate in New York City,” said Chris Dunn, spokesman for the NYCLU, in a statement. “Murders have dropped steadily since 1990.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/13…

http://www.nyclu.org/news/nyclu-analysis…
Posted by NaFun]]> Mon, 04 Jun 2012 12:37:40 -0700 The Stranger