http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/12/10/the-outsiders Comments On: The Outsiders by Goldy en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Tue, 21 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Tue, 21 May 2013 07:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Democrats are from California, Republicans are from Texas or something.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/chrisfield/…

Texas is prosperous because they let the rich lord over vassals of illegal immigrants and darker-colored folks without regulation.

California is bankrupt because the dirty unions let gay people create government jobs with outrageous benefits like health care and retirement security.

The truest of the true conservos believe they can save the Republic of Texas from being overrun with - god-forbid - Democrats. This is a last ditch effort against the Godless taker's assault on the Federal Branch of the US of A.
Posted by six shooter]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:33:19 -0800 The Stranger Posted by uncreative]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 15:29:02 -0800 The Stranger
None of which makes the U.S. a "Protestant nation." The construction of our founding documents had Protestant fingerprints because many (not all) of the founders were Protestants, but the document itself merely reflects that; it does not codify it. The freedom to study and "choose" religious values (so far as such things are chosen; as I've illustrated before, one chooses one's practices, but not so much one's beliefs, which reflect what we perceive or deduce to be true) certainly has currency in Protestantism, but it isn't exclusively or uniquely Protestant; indeed, the five solas--particularly sola scriptura--represent as crude and blatant a discouragement to inquiry as anything out of Rome or in the works of Karl Marx.

It seems to me, though, that the doctrine of free exercise of religion necessarily includes free exercise of irreligion; that is, that pluralism and moral self-determination are already built in to its foundation.

What's more, I fail to see how expanding the definition of marriage to include a greater number of possible household arrangements amounts to an imposition of any viewpoint; after all, anyone in the troll's family who actually does find him- or herself in a position to marry will be able to marry according to his/her own proclivities and beliefs, and will have that marriage recognized every bit as easily as it was before.
Posted by thelyamhound]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:40:45 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Grbstrt]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:30:42 -0800 The Stranger Posted by anon1256]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 14:11:56 -0800 The Stranger Posted by venomlash]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:19:25 -0800 The Stranger when the majority doesn't actually legally discriminate against them, but merely prevents them from legally discriminating against others

Given that discriminating and persecuting is an essential component of conservative Christianity, they really are being discriminated against and persecuted by tolerance.
Posted by seandr]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 13:15:21 -0800 The Stranger I would argue that the values on which the nation is founded are more those of the Englightenment than they are of the Protestant Reformation. Values such as the equality of all men and the inherent goodness and perfectibility of mankind, rather than, say values having to do with original sin and the basic corrpution and depravity of mankind. In short, America's values are more those of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin than they are of John Calvin, though Calvinist thought undeniably left its mark (see my comment on the Salem Witch Trials above @12, above).

Thanks, though, for giving me food for thought. Have a nice day.
Posted by Clayton]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:51:29 -0800 The Stranger
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/ass…

I think those flat blue spots are all Indian country. Outside of that, it's all Christian Right if you stay north of Denver.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:47:56 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Matt from Denver]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 12:20:30 -0800 The Stranger
The values that animated those who founded this nation were Protestant.

And the values that the nation strove to live up to during its heydays were Protestant.

In fact, the establishment of this nation could be seen as a step in the Reformation, the establishment of a nation where people were free to study and choose their religious values without coersion from the state.

That principle has always had enemies; the Catholic Church, the various hues of totalitarianism (fascist, communist, etc), and currently Humanism.

As Danny often brays, the Humanists are winning, using the power of government to impose their belief system on the entire population.

The decline of American society tracks the rise of Humanism.

Sorry if The Truth is awkward for you girls.

Inconvenient Truths, the man called them.......
Posted by The Late Great United States of America]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:52:32 -0800 The Stranger
Completely agree
Posted by Urgutha Forka]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:25:34 -0800 The Stranger
We wouldn't miss them.

At all.
Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:58:19 -0800 The Stranger Posted by internet_jen]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:22:02 -0800 The Stranger Part of the problem is that there is a significant group of people who feel the proper adjective to label your position would be 'socialist', the exact same word they'd use for Stalin, Mao, Mussolini,...anyone with positions at all at variance with their own in the direction of more State activity (and anyone wanting less were 'anarchist').
Posted by Gerald Fnord]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:19:05 -0800 The Stranger Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:12:21 -0800 The Stranger essentially fair. My two thoughts are that a) maybe we need to find a heading for getting laid and smoking weed other than "social," since most people use that word to describe issues of personal liberty and moral self-determination, and b) for those of us who are more or less still socially liberal even by your definition, we may describe ourselves as fiscally conservative simply because, while we DO support a strong social safety net and social programs that promote the public good, we may be amenable to more . . . well, "conservative" approaches to bringing that about.

How do you propose this position be described? Or is the need to label every nuance of position part of the problem?
Posted by thelyamhound]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:12:17 -0800 The Stranger Posted by DisorganizedReligion]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:11:14 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Pope Peabrain]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:07:53 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Max Solomon]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 10:05:40 -0800 The Stranger
I have to have sympathy with these people as human beings, as 1.) I have experienced what it's like to believe in things in which no-one around me believes and most find unacceptable, 2.) I believe that sympathy is not only the correct but the smart response, smart because you must understand your opponent as well as possible, and 3.) I believe that suffering itself were bad---it's bad for the health, and worse for the mind.

I wish they weren't suffering, and I don't think their suffering will lead them to what I consider to be decent opinions...any change will come after they get used enough to things that they have a chance to think, the lizard-brain no longer supervening.

> Despite seeing the recent votes as moral deterioration,
> "I don't necessarily buy that it's irreversible," Beren
> says. "If you go back into history, you'll see they were
> burning people at the stake and sacrificing children."
'[...] and God willing, I'll get to do that...soon.'
Posted by Gerald Fnord]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:54:56 -0800 The Stranger
And, as @2 pointed out, only some of the original colonies were founded on religious principles (in contrast, Georgia was basically a prison colony). Probably the most famous colony founded on and dedicated to explicitly Christian principles was Massachusetts. I'm always awed by how those witch trials in Salem embodied everything that makes our Christian nation great today!
Posted by Clayton]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:49:01 -0800 The Stranger
Works for all religions.
Posted by treacle]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:40:24 -0800 The Stranger
Socially liberal means providing for a strong and deep social safety net and social programs that support the public good and that isn't done through any "fiscal conservatism".
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:40:20 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Westlake, son!]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 09:37:15 -0800 The Stranger