Comments On: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin? by Paul Constant http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/01/07/what-do-you-think-of-the-trillion-dollar-coin Comments On: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin? by Paul Constant en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Fri, 24 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Fri, 24 May 2013 18:00:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
Well, yes, in the narrowest sense. Section (k) of 31 USC § 5112 says that:

The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.

Of course, there is one small problem: Platinum is currently selling for about $1,590 a troy ounce. So a $1 trillion bullion coin would weigh 26,221 “troy tons,” which might present a bit of a transportation problem getting from the mint to the Federal Reserve. There is also the problem that nowhere near that much platinum has ever been mined since the metal first came to the attention of chemists in the 1740s. Last year a grand total of 211 tons was mined worldwide, almost all of it from South Africa, Russia, and Canada.
Posted by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me]]> Fri, 11 Jan 2013 14:45:29 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by woof]]> Tue, 08 Jan 2013 08:13:04 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
After the Second World War, a system similar to a Gold Standard and sometimes described as a "gold exchange standard" was established by the Bretton Woods Agreements. Under this system, many countries fixed their exchange rates relative to the U.S. dollar. The U.S. promised to fix the price of gold at approximately $35 per ounce. Implicitly, then, all currencies pegged to the dollar also had a fixed value in terms of gold.[1]

Starting under the administration of the French President Charles de Gaulle and continuing until 1970, France reduced its dollar reserves, trading them for gold from the U.S. government, thereby reducing U.S. economic influence abroad. This, along with the fiscal strain of federal expenditures for the Vietnam War and persistent balance of payments deficits, led President Richard Nixon to end the direct convertibility of the dollar to gold on August 15, 1971, resulting in the system's breakdown (the "Nixon Shock").

Posted by Brooklyn Reader]]> Tue, 08 Jan 2013 06:05:23 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> The trillion dollar coin would not cause inflation in any way, because how much physical money the government makes does not actually cause inflation, nor would this trillion dollars ever actually be circulated. It would not actually increase the money supply by one trillion dollars.

It just means that instead of raising the debt ceiling and printing out a trillion dollars worth of government bonds, the coin is instead essentially converted to a trillion dollars worth of government bonds,

It is just an accounting trick to lock congress out of the debt ceiling debate. If anything, people should be complaining about a possible abuse of executive power (not that I would argue that).
Posted by Theodore Gorath]]> Tue, 08 Jan 2013 05:34:45 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by watchout5]]> Tue, 08 Jan 2013 04:35:24 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by Kansas boy]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 22:04:12 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
Either approach, minting the coin, or shooting down the debt ceiling directly, accomplishes the goal of quashing the insurrection/extortion in Congress. I just think that minting the coin is too independent an act of the Administration. It implies they could make as many as they want and avoid Congressional budget controls entirely. While you're correct, that it's just a trick and a paper entry, I think the markets will view it as somehow more dangerous.

On the other hand, if through a spitting and legal battle, Obama could strip the Congress of this separate budget ceiling approval nonsense, and claim the right to raise all needed funds to fulfill Congress' budgets as a matter of course through borrowings, I think the markets would accept that. After all, if Congress doesn't budget money for outlays, the Administration couldn't borrow it to pay for them. The two are directly linked.

Minting the coins, though, is one order of separation too many, though, in my humble opinion.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 20:47:28 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
Make it out of a trillion dollars worth of something (like that cheap-ass shit pennies are made of these days), so it's big enough to roll over and crush an entire city or a small state ... and then we can finally have a serious dialogue about the "crushing burden of the national debt".
Posted by RonK, Seattle]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:24:53 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Make that shthead carry that "honor" forever.
Posted by MrBaker]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 18:22:32 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
No, it's not inflationary. The money isn't going into circulation. You're just wrote a big pile of words about a thing you don't comprehend.

The simple version is this: Congress has already decided to spend this money. That means the debt must be paid. The legal choice to go into debt was made when it was spent. They cannot go back on that choice when the time rolls around to pay the bill.

What the Republicans are doing is playing legalistic games Obama has every right to play legalistic games to put this nonsense to rest. Obama actually has a duty do take care of this; the Constitution days the President must pay our debts.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 16:37:48 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
While also dicey, I think the Administration could make a reasonable-sounding legal argument that the Debt Ceiling is a void construct, since it serves no purpose. Congress already votes on all appropriations, as well as tariffs, taxes and most other revenues. Since Congress has its own Budget Office, we should expect that a) they know what they're doing, and b) if they're approving deficit expenditures that they're at least implicitly granting permission to borrow the money to effectuate their legislation.

The markets would accept this argument. The current Debt Ceiling is illogical. How can the Congress order spending money that the Treasury doesn't have and then refuse to allow them to borrow the money to pay the bills? The Administration just has to have the Solicitor General write up the case for it, present it to Congress, declaring their ability to default on our debts null and void, and let Congress petition the Supreme Court to stop it.

Congress will lose that one, sanity will win, and the markets will be much relieved, if not euphoric. It will be clear that Congress still has the power of the purse, because money could only be borrowed pursuant to Congressionally-approved spending, and the national economy will be safe from the suicidal bomb-throwers of the Tea Party.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:24:06 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by sperifera]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:18:44 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
I realize that sounds terribly elitist and condescending, but I really mean it.
Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:25:53 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by MacCrocodile]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:58:10 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
Posted by dirge]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:52:24 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
At that point, the American people must decide whose face will adorn the trillion dollar trinket. The process to determine the “specs” of the coin must be “determined by legislation,” creating the potential for another congressional impasse.


Posted by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:41:10 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:35:33 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
One side has Reagan.

The other has Fidel Castro imposed over Cuba with "60th US State" emblazoned over it.
Posted by Will in Seattle]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:34:48 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by Fr0zt]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:20:35 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by SuperSteve]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:07:34 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:05:26 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by --MC]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:05:22 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
Posted by bleedingheartlibertarian]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 13:02:39 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]> Posted by treacle]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 12:52:47 -0800 The Stranger <![CDATA[Re: What Do You Think of the Trillion-Dollar Coin?]]>
Paul Constant on Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:35 AM:"The more Republicans push against the trillion-dollar coin, the more Democrats will want to embrace it".

False equivalency alert. From Welfare Reform to the Afghanistan surge to health insurance exchanges, Democrats have proven many times over that they don't have to knee-jerk oppose everything Republicans say. The manichean ideologues are the Tea Party and Fox News, not the mostly centrist Democratic Party.

But I like the trillion dollar coin. I'm sick of hearing about this absurd issue. You can't just not pay your debts. If Republicans want to cut the budget, they should cut the budget. Not turn us in to a deadbeat country.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn]]> Mon, 07 Jan 2013 12:40:05 -0800 The Stranger