http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/01/29/zizek-destroys-zero-dark-thirty Comments On: Zizek Destroys Zero Dark Thirty by Charles Mudede en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 20 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Mon, 20 May 2013 09:30:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Posted by the duster]]> Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:46:41 -0800 The Stranger Posted by unthinking lovers of war porn just adore Bigelow]]> Wed, 30 Jan 2013 08:48:43 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Billy Chav]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:25:56 -0800 The Stranger Posted by delirian]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:43:52 -0800 The Stranger
Posted by the duster]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:31:53 -0800 The Stranger "Perpetrators often attempt to justify their acts of torture and ill-treatment by the need to gather information. Such conceptualisations obscure the purpose of torture ... The aim of torture is to dehumanise the victim, break his/her will, and at the same time set horrific examples for those who come in contact with the victim. In this way, torture can break or damage the will and coherence of entire communities."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/may…


Posted by anon1256]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 18:16:58 -0800 The Stranger
Of course, Zizek seems to be arguing a strict Kantian repugnance to torture. Many levelheaded Kantians, however, loosen their grip once the cost of the trade off of rights gets high enough.
Posted by the duster]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:11:22 -0800 The Stranger Posted by anon1256]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:55:10 -0800 The Stranger
@7, I don't recall the information from the actual torture sequences bearing any positive info at all. I DO recall a manipulation/lie (in a good-cop scene on the totally opposite end of the spectrum from the waterboarding) regarding what the detainee allegedly already confessed during sleep deprivation bearing some partial fruit, and so if anything workable information came only when constructing a warm/artificial scenario in which allegedly information was already given (when in fact it was not). How does THAT make the case for torture providing good intel? If anything it undercuts that claim.

Did you see the movie? How many people here actually have *seen* the movie and walked away feeling like Zizek? I did. I am unequivocally anti-torture, and whole-heartedly disagree with Zizek/Naomi Wolf/#7's interpretation.
Posted by grkly]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 12:10:20 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Spindles]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:57:32 -0800 The Stranger defense of ZDT is astonishingly coherent.
Posted by Josh Bis]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:57:02 -0800 The Stranger
I think that the film could easily be viewed as an indictment of the "war on terror" and the shameful "enhanced interrogation" program that proved so ineffective in preventing so many terrorist attacks. While this argument is somewhat facile (the only real progress occurs post-GWB in a rigorous law-and-order criminal investigation context), I appreciate that the film is rich enough to not force one particular narrative on a very messy history.
Posted by Josh Bis]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:48:07 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Rhizome]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:39:40 -0800 The Stranger Posted by tiktok]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:28:11 -0800 The Stranger
Don't get me wrong - how you describe the film's meaning is EXACTLY how I would. But what interests me is the fact that so many attentive, reasonable people genuinely do not find that meaning in it. Nor, apparently - and I am coming to believe her - does its creator.
Posted by gloomy gus]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:22:24 -0800 The Stranger A philosopher is just a movie critic, but with an even bigger attitude problem.

Good to know!
Posted by RonK, Seattle]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:19:51 -0800 The Stranger
But I'm glad the film was made. It's excellent film-making. It works as art. And it has reminded Americans - in a very movie-real way - what has been done (and what is being done?) in their name. I think a large segment of our country is complacent or cavalier about torture - that it is something that happens not at home, but in Never, Never Land. Zero Dark Thirty put it right on the front porch. That has to be a good thing, right?
Posted by Bauhaus I]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:15:26 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Rhizome]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:51:52 -0800 The Stranger
The film implicitly posits torture as a necessary evil, when in fact "information" acquired through torture was immaterial to the results of the search for Bin Laden.

Like 24 before it, Zero Dark implies causation where there is no causation, invokes "moral ambiguity" where there is none: torture is wrong, and torture does not work.

The damage is compounded in that this fiction purports to be fact, and in that this is likely to become the dominant narrative version of these events in the public memory.

Fuck Bigelow for that.
Posted by d.p.]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:42:05 -0800 The Stranger Posted by treehugger]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:35:34 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gloomy gus]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 10:14:45 -0800 The Stranger Irreversible immediately came to my mind too while reading that. I haven't seen Zero Dark Thirty, so I can't make any comparisons, but the former shows a brutal act of violence at the very beginning of the film, slowly revealing that the act is arguably understandable and maybe even noble, given later (previous) events. I can see how a similar narrative in Thirty might make viewers uncomfortable, even for opposite reasons.
Posted by Knat]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:48:58 -0800 The Stranger
Posted by bob99]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:44:13 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Ziggity]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:12:56 -0800 The Stranger Zero Dark Thirty presented the torture scenes repulsive and disagree with his assertion that Chastain's performance was unsentimental.
Posted by Josh Bis]]> Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:06:49 -0800 The Stranger