http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2013/01/31/sl-letter-of-the-day-your-twink-fix Comments On: SL Letter of the Day: Get Your Twink On by Dan Savage en-us Copyright 2013 The Stranger. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, The Stranger readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact The Stranger. webmaster@thestranger.com (The Stranger Webmaster) Mon, 20 May 2013 00:00:01 -0700 Mon, 20 May 2013 11:45:00 -0700 Foundation http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Posted by butterflyrose83]]> Wed, 06 Feb 2013 07:34:27 -0800 The Stranger Posted by pb1230]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:43:59 -0800 The Stranger
Sure, women are more likely to suffer natural losses of libido, but that doesn't mean they are lost causes. You say that two women to need to fight bed death. Well, wouldn't going to see a therapist help in that fight? Furthermore, sudden and complete losses of libido (44 states less than a year) are often the times (but not always of course) the result of an underlying physiological or psychological conditions. Its just best to rule this out right off the bat.
Posted by pb1230]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:40:45 -0800 The Stranger If you ask most any MTF transexual, they will tell you that as soon as the testosterone stopped and estrogen/progesterone took its place, their libidos were completely different animals than before. All tied to securing a mate, nesting, etc. Not lust for the orgasm only, which is the case with most men.
So- two women have to fight the bed death. Two men together have to accomodate their desire to spread their seed far and wide and any problems that brings. A straight couple has to fight 'she lost interest and I'm going nuts', or 'he's pestering me constantly for sex I no longer want'.
Sigh.
Posted by OutInBumF]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 12:11:39 -0800 The Stranger
Your problem seems less about a loss physical attraction, but a complete loss of interest in sex in general. Has your wife gone to the doctor or seen a therapist about her low libido, or have you both chalked it up to "that's what happens to women as the age and progress in relationships" like your post seems to suggests.


Posted by pb1230]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 07:39:47 -0800 The Stranger Posted by DarthKelly]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 18:30:48 -0800 The Stranger I'm sorry to hear about the lack of sex in your marriage. For what it's worth, while I disagree with Dan, I also disagree with your statement that "If we at one time wanted to fuck you, we will at all later times also want to fuck you." Maybe that's true for some men, but we hear plenty from men who have lost sexual interest in their wives as they have aged, gained or lost weight, etc.

I think we want to understand attraction and desire and to be able to pin them down so we can ensure their longevity, but I don't think it is possible. Sometimes, for some reason, people just stop being attracted to one another, or one person's desire for another just disappears.

We want to blame it on physical changes that the no-longer desirable one has undergone, or a hormonal drop in libido that can be "fixed," preferably with a simple pill taken once daily. We want to solve it by a man's making more of an effort with housework, or a woman's not "letting herself go." We explain it by children being there and time-consuming (with the expectation that they will get older and not be so much of a drain). Undoubtedly, all these things can contribute to a drop in libido in general or the diminishment of interest in a specific person, but ultimately, there is often no one or two identifiable causes.

It's a shame, and a drag, and one of the great mysteries of life, and it throws a lot of people's lives into despair or disarray, but sometimes we just turn off to a person sexually.


Posted by nocutename]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 11:57:52 -0800 The Stranger
Here is a sentence that really shows it is written by a man whose sexual experience is with other men: "If your relationship isn't sexless now despite your boyfriend's non-twink status, TL, I don't see any reason why his non-twink status places your relationship at any greater risk of sexlessness in the future." It makes perfect sense why Dan would say that because that is how men are. If we at one time wanted to fuck you, we will at all later times also want to fuck you. Women just aren't like that.

I predict that if this couple gets married they will be sexless within two years, perhaps earlier. It is extremely common for women to experience a loss in desire a few years after marriage. This is much less common for men. There is a reason why we hear about "lesbian bed death" and frustrated husbands in sexless marriages while we hear of plenty of gay male couples boning happily until one of them dies.

Her sexual interest in this guy is only going to go down. If it is already so low she can barely muster interest before marriage, there is just no chance her interest will last after marriage.

My own experience may shed a little light. Like the LW, my wife is bi and kinky. She also had an extremely extensive sexual history before we met. Unlike the LW, she has always been more attracted to me than I am to her.

Her high libido and attraction to me meant that we had a lot of sex before marriage. This continued for about a year after our marriage at which point our sex life died out. The conception of our first child is easy to remember because we only tried three times. Her libido returned during her first pregnancy. After our first child was born it seemingly left for good.

She got pregnant two more times which required a total of three tries. Obviously, each of those is easy to remember as well. Despite the fact that she wanted more than one child it required me to take sole responsibility to arrange for the conceptions.

Because she is also a Savage Love reader and podcast listener she seldom refuses if I request a blow job. However, she never initiates sex and generally does not want reciprocation. She would prefer to never have vaginal intercourse again. She no longer really considers herself bi (although she has had primary relationships with women in the past) and seems to have even given up looking at porn in the last year or so.

I don't believe this is because she is not attracted to me. Her nickname for me is "gorgeous." The fact remains that I made the tradeoff Dan suggests and married a person I was otherwise compatible with but who I was not very attracted to. Now I am married (with children) to someone I am not very attracted to who also doesn't want to have sex. This is true even though we started off with a more promising outlook than the LW gives in her letter.

It may be that the LW can have a happy marriage. Mine is generally happy and I love my children. Both of them need to be aware that if their marriage is happy it is despite the fact that it is sexless. The lack of my own sex life is a major problem for me. I stay married because I love my family and my children. If we did not have children I would have divorced her many years ago. Not because I don't like or love her, but because there is no point to a sexless, childless, marriage.
Posted by Learned Hand]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 01:00:23 -0800 The Stranger
But if you desire vanilla sex with someone you're attracted to, or he desires vanilla sex in which you act as equals, I really don't know what to tell you. It's dangerous to get super-committed to someone who doesn't satisfy your major urges,

In addition, I think it's worth it to recognize that there's a huge difference between "not my physical ideal" and "not attracted to him at all". The way you phrase your second paragraph in the letter, I wonder if the way he looks repels you a bit. If that's the case, and you or he want vanilla sex to be an active part of your sex life, that's going to come to a head eventually.
Posted by alguna_rubia]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:45:29 -0800 The Stranger Posted by EricaP]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 10:56:04 -0800 The Stranger
@2 I don't know why I didn't think of that. Sounds hot; clearly I should try it.

On the marriage front, we are definitely planning on a long engagement. I am conflicted about this, mostly because I'm afraid of ending up in the sort of situation that @40 describes. But I think the commenter who said I'll regret it for a long time if I ditch him is right.
Posted by TwinkLover]]> Sat, 02 Feb 2013 10:13:54 -0800 The Stranger
I am a woman pretty much exclusively attracted to one type of man - not far away from the LW's type. I thought this was just a "physical ideal" and something I could compromise on. I also thought at times I was being shallow, and too picky.

I ended up in a relationship with a man who was tall, broad, quite muscular. A long way from my type. We spent nearly a decade in a relationship which despite trying and trying just didn't work sexually due to my lack of sexual attraction to him.

After a lot of kidding myself that my sex drive was in the wrong we split up for a bit, prompted in large part by me getting involved (with my partner's knowledge) with another guy who was much more my type. I realised then that it was really important to me to be with someone I had a strong sexual desire for.

Then my long-term partner and I got back together on the basis of having an open relationship to deal with my need for adorable hairless men with questionable sexual orientations, and on the basis he could get the sex he wasn't getting from me elsewhere. We did this because we get along so very well as people, we share finances so well, we trust each other so much, we share a lot of interests and dreams for the future, etc.

That lasted until I got involved with another guy who was more my type. Having real intimacy with someone I also desperately want to screw is something I now realise I really need, and I found myself closer and closer to the new partner and with less time for the long term one. I realised I really can't balance multiple serious partners - I focus on one person. This caused a whole load of friction, and before long a conversation where he and I realised we'd really done a lot of damage to each other's self esteem and sex drives. Both of us really needed a partner who offers more than commitment and stability, and really good sex once in a blue moon. I needed someone I really wanted, and he needed someone who really wanted him.

So we split up, but since we work so well and in a lot of ways we're sharing the house, the car, our finances, and so on. Why throw out the good bits? It was hard work but we're as close as ever, just minus the sexual/romantic relationship bit which really wasn't working.

I'm sure for some people compromising over the sexual attraction bit is workable. For other people I'm sure open or poly relationships help sort this situation out. But neither worked for me, and it took me years to figure out the solution. I'm very glad I didn't get married during those years, it would have made an already complicated and difficult situation even worse.

I would also like to echo those commentors who mentioned the effect this might have on your partner - my lack of desire definitely had an effect on my ex. Years of thinking or knowing that you can't turn on the person you desire and love would surely hurt anyone, if the situation is not resolved in some way. Don't ignore this situation and just try to put up with it for both of your sakes. I think there are a lot of potential ways to deal with it, but you need to figure out which one works best for you both.
Posted by crypticel]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:52:54 -0800 The Stranger
Actually, one could make the case that all those relationships ought to end, though it's tricky deciding whose benefit one advocates in recommending so.
Posted by vennominon]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 16:26:47 -0800 The Stranger Posted by Nobby Nobbs]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 14:39:57 -0800 The Stranger Posted by it's just a silly addition]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 13:35:55 -0800 The Stranger Posted by gromm]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:18:04 -0800 The Stranger
@22, you're confusing between being sexually attracted and physically attracted to someone - although there is an overlap they are not synonymous. The LW appears to be very much sexually attracted to her partner, otherwise she would not say things such as:
"he makes me wet and horny like a slut and I come crazy hard."
"[I am] having more orgasms than ever before"
She's not faking these orgasm, she's just faking her physically attraction towards him. Attractions (just like physical appearances) change over time.


Posted by consensual_nonconsent]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 10:05:06 -0800 The Stranger
Take some time. I'm 40, & very few people I've known since our 20's are with the partner they were then.
Posted by Eva Hopkins]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 09:48:34 -0800 The Stranger
Your other point is good. I know at least a few guys who identify as gay, but I they're bi. Know some of their lady exes, have heard them comment on this that or t'other woman, etc. (Not confusing lady exes w/ ladies some guys would date in an attempt to look/be straight.) They'd cop to being bi if it wouldn't make their (sometimes misogynistic) husbands crazy; a couple of them have told me as much.


Posted by Eva Hopkins]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 09:46:07 -0800 The Stranger
And for the subset of bi men who are non-monogamous, it's way easier to graze on the dude side of the fence when being horny & non-monogamous, explaining that stereotype. Despite the overall minority percentage of males-attracted-to-males seeking LTRs, a significant percentage of guys-into-guys are on Grindr at every hour of the day or night looking for Mr. Right Now.

Also, @30, I know of a few lesbian women partnered with women and one out gay man who have said in private they're a bit bi in terms of history and occasional interests, but they find it way too complicated to be out about that part of their lives to most of their friends because (1) some come from the "bi isn't real" perspective, and (2) some of the out bi people that we know are the annoying angry bi type, so ironically that keeps the sane bi people silent.
Posted by delta35]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 06:14:35 -0800 The Stranger
"And another thing: if you love this guy and want to spend the rest of your life married to him, why don't you ask him to marry you already? It's the 21st century. Women are allowed to propose, too."
Posted by BABH]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 04:42:37 -0800 The Stranger
It's an orientation. For example, a gay guy, living as a straight guy, pretending, maybe even married, is still a gay guy. A bi woman, when involved with a man, is still a bisexual woman, even if she isn't with both a man & a woman at the same time.

But when seeing a man, if it's monogamous, I'm a very out bi woman. 'cause the more of us people know, the harder it is to discriminate.

FWIW it's very rare that bisexuality has come up in any of these discussion threads w/out some biphobia rearing its head in the 1st 25 posts or so. There's either some questioning of the LW's being bi or someone explaining that bi isn't really a thing.

Can I tell ya, most bi women I know are in relationships with men. We sometimes get to fool around with other women, but gay women = hard to find, & many of them won't date bisexual ladies. Bi women, also hard to spot, as most are with men, therefore making identification challenging.



Posted by Eva Hopkins]]> Fri, 01 Feb 2013 01:22:55 -0800 The Stranger
Meanwhile, back in the land of REALITY, attraction is the sole defining factor of orientation and it matters not a whit whether or not you can see it.
Posted by Reverend Tap]]> Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:19:20 -0800 The Stranger Posted by aureolaborealis]]> Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:14:51 -0800 The Stranger For the record: in order to be bisexual, she HAS to be attracted to males. If she's not attracted to males, she's gay. I don't understand your conundrum, exactly.
Posted by lizza]]> Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:13:27 -0800 The Stranger