Comments On: The Empty Spaces by Mike Daisey

Re: The Empty Spaces

JeanmarieSimpson — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 08:48:04 -0800

As we Quakers say, "You speak my mind, Friend."
Posted by JeanmarieSimpson

Re: The Empty Spaces

Sam Longoria — Sat, 23 Jul 2011 01:10:21 -0700

Dear Mike,

I've owned live and movie theatres, put up shows in Hollywood, as Producer and Player, and performed in shows in New York, Chicago, and Seattle. You are so right in this piece, as depressing as that might seem.

Maybe things "should" be some other way, but there is no "should." There is only "what is."

With very few exceptions in specific niche markets, things are terrible in Theatre.
You are right, "How Non-profit Corporations Are Run" is a big part of the problem.

I see the other big part as "Too Few Ticket-Buyers To Pay For Everything," which is the bottom line. Plenty of Supply, as long as Players' day jobs hold out, but virtually No Demand.

You're passionate, I'm passionate. If somehow more persons were passionate, it seems it "should" work, but our passionate drive to create great Theatre doesn't matter. Americans spend their entertainment dollars somewhere else.

Theatre has indeed failed America, by being too expensive, and America reciprocates by staying home. The competition is unbeatable.

Who REALLY is our Competition? Other theatres? No. Other Performing Artists? No. Our unbeatable Real Competition is free radio and tv, and movies on computer, and DVDs. That's what we're up against.

How do you get somebody out of his house to come see your show, when he most easily entertains himself just by clicking his mouse or remote? You can't.

There are a few remedies, and I'm applying them. Those only come after recognizing our Real Competition.

Throwing public money at the wrong problem certainly doesn't work, and now there's no more of that. Don't blame the American public, they're doing the best they can.

There is nothing wrong with Theatre People throwing themselves at an Impossible Dream, if that's what they want to do, and as long as we all know it's impossible. Bless 'em all!

Just don't make yourself crazy by calling it a Career. Without a paycheck, it's a Hobby, and that's okay. Hobbies are good. Everybody needs a Hobby.

Sam Longoria
http://samlongoria.blogspot.com
Posted by Sam Longoria

Re: The Empty Spaces

Margaretta — Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:13:57 -0700

@5, me too. Last dress for the show I'm in is tonight, and I am exhausted as I sit at my desk this morning, at my full time admin job. I am basically paying to be in this summer park show because of the long commute and the prepared meals I need to buy to get to work and rehearsal on time. And the occasional vacation hour I need to take off work to make the early call times.

No one forced me to go into the arts, and theater is not the only art form that requires its practitioners to make financial sacrifices. The thing that really irks me is when local politicians refer to Seattle's thriving arts scene as one of the pros for moving one's family or business here, when performers generally have to work for free in order to work at all, and when they are paid, are generally not given standard employee benefits like L&I and unemployment.

Thank you for this piece; it's good to know that there are others who feel this way, and that being a non-union actor who has a day job IS being a professional actor in Seattle.
Posted by Margaretta

Re: The Empty Spaces

LA-TONIA DENISE WILLIS — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 19:16:03 -0700

I'm originally from New York so getting acclimated to the Pacific Northwest arts scene was both a blessing and a curse. As an up and coming playwright, there was no way I could compete with NYC. However,I'm trying to hang on and not feel so pessimistic about the state of indie theater in Seattle.

I don't mean to be a comment spammer, but I'm directing a play I wrote at the Henry Art Gallery (Univ of WA campus) on June 24, 2010. It's a FREE event. RSVP at http://syllogismindietheater.eventbrite.…

PLEASE SUPPORT INDIE THEATER BY SHOWING UP!

Posted by LA-TONIA DENISE WILLIS

Re: The Empty Spaces

Artimus — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:00:12 -0800

Thanks for this POV Rob. Your anger and pain have been a part of theatre from its very beginning. Clearly the Bard had to toady up to the Crown to keep his theatre solvent. And ancient Greek and Roman theatre centered around religious festivals and plays exclusively financed by wealthy patrons. The ancients paid actors but *gave* the theatre to the people. So public theatre performed in front of 17 thousand people - cost audiences nothing.

And women were never allowed onstage until the renaissance - and death scenes in Rome were performed by condemned convicts who were actually killed! (rather alarming for Equity actors today)

What the history suggests is perhaps it is time to try an old model. Perhaps theatre angels who have access to enormous wealth should focus on developing free theatre that speaks to new audiences. These are the audiences that will become the paying audiences going forward - because they have learned to love the theatre through free performance. We simply cannot expect theatre with $50-60 ticket prices to compete with internet, TV and video games. Like it or not theatre is still entertainment (occasionally enlightened entertainment) and it must enthuse kids the way movies, TV, vid games and music do. Hopefully, once they've been to the "city" they'll keep coming back.

But there are so few "angels" willing or able to finance such an undertaking. True, apparently. Unless we view our corporations as uneducated angels. In great need of instruction on corporate responsibility, community outreach, and profit contribution of good will. In that case, the corporation, currently viewed as the pinnacle of evil, CAN become far more active in supporting the arts.

None of this helps your woman friend who at 40, retires from the struggle to survive. There is little to be done for those who have served the arts well for twenty, thirty years and choose to be comfortable for once in life. It has to be enough to have served well. And we should all be grateful for those who do so. Acting will always be a profession at the edge of life. There will always be thousands for each single opening. But for those who burn with the art and desire and fever of performance - there will be work. Not compensated well or at all - but work. And the history of art tells us that is the sacrifice that comes with being an artist. It sucks, yeah. But it is also not the debilitating struggle to find food that millions of dirt poor face daily.
Posted by Artimus

Re: The Empty Spaces

sugarcohen — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:46:51 -0800

So, What do we do? As young, dump-poor, stupidly eager and inspired artists? I know everyone says do Your work. But, I don't want to do anymore theatre for the sake of theatre, my own need to express in front of friends and family. I am an artist. I am lost. But, I am hopeful.
Posted by sugarcohen

Re: The Empty Spaces

agreed — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:19:06 -0700

simple, truthful, and heartbreaking.
Posted by agreed

Re: The Empty Spaces

Eustacia — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:11:42 -0700

Hi, thanks for posting this. I have often wondered why regional theaters cast from NYC. Makes no sense to me at all. That process hinders the potential to create and nuture local artists. It also creates a dearth of artists in cities all over the country. I know that where I am located, in a New York city outside of NYC, there are few local actors or directors. Our local professional theater casts exclusively from NYC. Because there are so few actually working in the city, the imagination and hunger for art is quite low. A sad state when the only solution is to move to NYC. I don't blame you for feeling and acting how you did.
Posted by Eustacia

Re: The Empty Spaces

McIver — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:11:59 -0700

Unpopular thoughts:

Cut the marketing budget. How then do people find out about the shows? How do you put butts in seats?

The parts of the corporations that grow are the parts that bring in money. Actors don't bring in money. There is not a single doubt that actors are valuable artistically. What are the actors doing to make themselves more valuable financially?

All people who think they can run a theater company better should start one and put their money where their mouths are. The failure to do so is what allows mediocrity in management.

If the artists are not in control of the theater they have themselves to blame for ceding control of management decisions to professional administrators. If artists think they can do a better job they need to get off the barstool and start doing it.
Posted by McIver

Re: The Empty Spaces

darkfall gold — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:17:18 -0700

yes, come on ! This way to buy darkfall gold
Posted by darkfall gold

Re: The Empty Spaces

J. Thomas — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 06:32:42 -0700

I too, like at least one of the commenters above, am a little baffled by your position.

You claim the dream is dead, having abandoned the dream yourself by leaving the beloved movement and performing your indictment of the state of theatre in the US in theatres in the US. It is a little like chasing AND biting the hand that feeds you.

You are correct on so many levels. Corporations, bloated by marketers rather than artists, do not make for good theatre. Repertory companies have found little sustainable support. Audiences are older and dwindling. Ticket prices should be lower.

Why sit back (from your reviews, I understand that is your actual blocking) and condemn the system? You have apparently found a way out. If you love the original spirit of Seattle's theatre scene and the talent you believe exists there, jump in, sir. If a corporate milieu has taken over, take it back. If young audiences are staying away, find ways to make theatre compelling and relevant to them. If you find the Union unsupportive, REALLY pay your dues and become a voice within Equity that will not stand for the chipping away of contracts and benefits. (Perhaps you do; I'm presumptuous there, but have never seen your name on any ballot personally.)

I point the finger at myself as well. It is we actors, directors, and writers all who have allowed the theatre to be taken away from us by producers who have a better mind for business and a smarter realization that everything in the world boils down to economics. (The Actors' Theatre of Louisville is anything but.) We let them redraw the models, re-write the rules, redefine the meaning of success.

If doors are closed, build new ones. Commit to community. Unify under the union rather than forgo it and work outside of it. Decide if job security and a lovely home are more important to you than art. Artists have had to do grapple with that decision throughout the history of civilization. If the decision is yes, petition vociferously, relentlessly, for governmental support. (We have an arts-friendly President!)

Or get out of the pool. But don't toll the death-knell of the dream for all of us. It's a bell that's been rung so often it is cracked and out of tune. Let's make better music.

Posted by J. Thomas

Re: The Empty Spaces

LDuP — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:29:54 -0700

I completely understand your friends exhaustion and your grief. About a year ago my "little engine that could" theater company had to fold because it had become clear to those of us trying to fight the good fight that our little engine was never going to make over the hill of making any money. We all looked around as small companies like ours but with more experience than us were dropping like flies and realized we didn't want to be starting all over again at 45 the way our friends were. The larger "regional" theaters here in Boston are the same in Seattle, cast almost exclusively from NYC. Mind you that's also thanks in no small part to the fact that we are too "close" to NYC to merit being an Equity town in our own right so even local Equity members have to maintain timeshare apartments in NYC in order to have a place to live so they can be available for casting calls for shows in their actual hometown. (The shows in Boston are nearly exclusively shows from NYC so honestly what's the dif?) Those who can't afford that scratch and claw for the handful of jobs Equity allows to cast locally. Many the actors in Boston let their union status expire just so they can act more often...for little or no pay of course.

My day job was working in a cubicle at one of the regional theaters here (at least I could see the shows for free) and I watched them celebrate as they stayed in the black not because of the brilliant shows they put on but because they bought up the main performance spaces used by smaller companies and raised the rent through the roof. Sure they made money that first year, but six of those companies went under because they couldn't pay that rent and make enough to break even, so who's gonna be renting that space next season? Who else? Corporate event companies who are thrilled such prime real estate became available. The spaces in Boston that were the centers of artistic discovery, experimentation, and new work, will soon be home to cute little improv sketches about an insurance agency's IT department. I suppose in the end when the theaters have completely cannibalized themselves and there's no one left but the administrations then they can hire out the spaces for their own corporate events. At least that will mean SOMEONE will be in the theaters.
Posted by LDuP

Re: The Empty Spaces

amy_30 — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:59:41 -0700

"most people in this world ARE trying..."

sorry, grammar mistake above. it's late.
Posted by amy_30

Re: The Empty Spaces

amy_30 — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:56:49 -0700

just some late night thoughts…

you seem to forget that at any other job, many employees would still experience infrastures/power structures that seem unfair to the “little guy”, you have to deal with “politics”, etc.

you say garage theatre doesn’t do it, you say regional doesn’t do it. pick your poison…you either do it for the art or the money, and you probably do it for a combination of both. so you make the best of both worlds and carve out a life.

sorry your friend couldn’ hack it, really. but that’s not the point of the argument, it’s demogogery. we all have problems and we all suffer. but the world is 90% our outlook on it. you can choose to be defeatist, or victimized, or a sourpuss…or you can take what comes your way, make the best of it, and be grateful for what you do have. my career is a big challenge, but hey, i’m healthy and i have some good people in my life. compared to a war-torn country or some third-world countries, that doesn’t sound so awful does it?

don’t blame the soldiers, fighting the good fight, who jet off to these places to work, and those who book our flights. we’re not exactly killing babies, here. we’re trying to make a living. most people in this world is trying to do that in some fashion, by some definition. you clearly learned to work the system, but put on an alter those who suffer because they can’t or won’t, and put up on a chopping block those others who do.

the best defense we have is our attitude. can you handle working the system to your advantage so you can afford to carve out the time and space to do what you want? you could do the same thing by having a “day” job and doing shows in your free time. tons of people do that every day with their interests and passions.

at least regional theatres are trying to operate and create what opportunities they can. if you want to play the blame game, pick the government or some other overarching support source whose absence makes it necessary for these other institutions to struggle along as they have been on development and donations.

ps…when you stop taking checks from regional theatres, then we can talk.

Posted by amy_30

Re: The Empty Spaces

Smithy — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:07:11 -0700

I've tried to say a similar thing, to many friends and former co-workers, but Mike does a nice job here. Theatre is business. Show business <-- see, it's baked right in!
You have to treat it as such if you want it to be a livelihood, a calling, and not a mere hobby. All in all, perhaps the best analogy would be: if you were a coffee artist, would you rather work for a corporate coffee factory like SBUX, or would you rather work for smaller-scale Vivace? Would you want the comatose up-at-4am-for-the-commute clients (aka audience) of SBUX or the slightly-appreciative post-bohemian audience at Vivace?
The problem is, from my POV, so many theatre artists (in Seattle, ...ok, in anywhere) don't even strive to work at the indies; they work the equivalent of the freeway reststop coffee cart or the church soup kitchen: they don't work for companies, they don't work at all: they volunteer for charities, and consequently are expected to give it away.
A friend of mine summarizes it nicely: "it's ok to be a whore for theatre, but never a slut". When you give away your goods, you devalue it for everyone and contribute to the death of the livelihood. And No, I don't believe unions solve it: they also behave as corporations, so they are merely 'Democrats' to the 501c Regional Theatre's 'Republicans'. Neither are indy thinkers. Nor is theatre supposed to be a 2 party system. The Rep's toxic formula of 5 and 6 digit salaried office workers holding the FT jobs and the actors and designers shipped in from NY, Berkeley or Carrie Fisher's house is outdated and will die with its expiring subscriber base. It's for people who want to play 'company', not for artists. A certain old hand at SRT once told an entire touring freshman class of theatre artists, before saying anything else, even so much as a "hi": "for fuck's sake, don't get into this business. Run. ". We were naive and optimistic. We laughed then. Oh, if only the rest of them were so sincere.

Then, I ask these fed-up artist friends, why strive to work for a top-heavy corporation OR for a non-valuing charity - why not build a small company? Of your own? Why not make a business out of your show business? Create a model that actually pays, sans government handout-slash-grants-requirements? "That's impossible"! I hear. Yet, I've been running a tiny for-profit theatre company since 96. Does it pay all the bills? Some years, yes. Do I live modestly? Oh hells yes. Do I get to make the art I want, how I want, to some of my favorite audience? YES , and I value that more than health benefits, pensions, union bargaining, long resume credits and name-recognition combined. I'm in it to make, to create, to tell stories: (and I feel that those in it for fame and money forgot to upshift to film); I want a living and I demand one, and through stubborn/creative means I've grabbed it much like Mr. Daisey and his wife. Self employment is hard, and those federal dollars are tempting, but there's great satisfaction in making your own way. I'm not sure it's a living to carry you well past middleage, but I'm sure as hell it is the right way (shy of having a noble as an altruistic patron) to make theatre right now.

Posted by Smithy

Re: The Empty Spaces

an artist — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:16:24 -0700

Thank you so much for saying all of this!

Articles like yours are the first step forward to a new system that will support the artists, not the buildings and the boards.
Posted by an artist

Re: The Empty Spaces

myself — Sat, 30 May 2009 22:04:12 -0700

don't join equity and you have a better chance at working, especially if you're older.
Posted by myself

Re: The Empty Spaces

Ramona — Thu, 28 May 2009 08:47:36 -0700

I am sitting in a cubicle, exhausted from having to get up early in order to get to this cubicle on time after a late night of rehearsal, which will be followed by another late night tonight. I am 50 years old. I have been a so-called professional actor since 1988. I am quietly weeping as I read and appreciate this article.
Posted by Ramona

Re: The Empty Spaces

JERRY — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:15:21 -0700

I hear ya man - to a new model!
Posted by JERRY