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November 16, 2011

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I'm 21 years old and in a monogamous relationship. I lost my virginity to my boyfriend, and it was a really great experience. I was drawn to BDSM even before I began having sex, and he's been happily fulfilling my needs. However, he revealed fairly early on that he also enjoys being submissive during sex. I asked him to explain what sort of dominance he was looking for, but he said he'd rather show me. Recently he tried to steer a sex session in that direction—me dominating him—but I felt nervous and self-conscious. I felt like I was failing a pop quiz. How do I become more comfortable with being a dom? Any tips for first-time doms? Or am I just not cut out for this?

Not Quite A Dom

There are a lot of skilled, confident BDSM tops out there—people who are exclusively dominant or switch—who got into it for the same reason you've started to explore your dominant side, NQAD: to please a submissive and/or switch partner.

But "show me" is not how a couple incorporates BDSM into their sex life. Maybe he's having a hard time articulating his desires because he's shy, or maybe he's insecure, or maybe he mistakenly believes that sex—even logistically complicated sex—should just "happen naturally."

So here's my first tip: Force him to talk about what sort of BDSM or D/s play he's interested in. A lot can be assumed during a strictly vanilla sexual encounter—far too much is assumed, far too often—but what goes on during a sexual encounter involving BDSM has to be specifically and explicitly negotiated. If he's too shy to have a face-to-face conversation about his kinks, do it over e-mail. If he doesn't feel comfortable sending e-mails (they live forever on a server, they can be forwarded), tell him to write you a letter, read it in his presence, then tear it up.

Second tip: The less a newbie dom has to fake during BDSM sex, NQAD, the less daunting the role feels. Instead of pretending that you're a menacing and experienced dom, incorporate what's really going on—your boyfriend is so submissive that he's submitting to his submissive girlfriend, and how perverted is that?—into your play and dirty talk. Then your unfamiliarity with the dom role becomes something you're bringing to the scene, NQAD, not something that's causing you to fail at it.

Third tip: A blindfold is an inexperienced dom's best friend. Not ready to visit your local BDSM sex shoppe? An ACE bandage will do the trick. You'll feel much less self-conscious if he can't see you fumbling with rope, suppressing a nervous giggle, or searching high and low for a mislaid key to the handcuffs.

I recently made friends with a guy who is in his first sexual relationship. He comes to me, his best male buddy, with questions, and I try to make sure he's informed and being safe. But he's asked me a question about oral sex that I don't know how to answer. What is a man supposed to do when he's about to ejaculate during oral sex? I feel like there should be a polite version of "Where do you want it?" that a guy can say to a woman, but I'll be damned if I can think of it.

Sexual Advice Xactly Our Need

When your friend is getting close—when he's approaching "orgasmic inevitability," as the sex researchers call it—he should say, "I'm getting close." (Duh, right?) And just as he's passing the point of orgasmic inevitability—his mother kicking down the bedroom door and leading a SWAT team into the room couldn't keep him from ejaculating—he should say, "I'm coming."

At that moment, the blowjob bestower—your friend's new GF, in this case—can remove the dick from her mouth and point it at her tits or over her shoulder or at his mother. Or she can leave it in her mouth, let him come, and then decide if she wants to spit or swallow. She's the decider.

I'm a 24-year-old straight girl, and vaginal sex does nothing for me. I've never been molested and I don't take pills. I feel sexual pleasure in other parts of my body and experience clitoral orgasms, but as far as getting fucked by a dick goes, it's about as interesting as a finger in a fist. Through googling, I've found others with this issue, and the general response to us seems to be that it's a surmountable mental problem—which is vague and unhelpful.

So I'm asking for the opposite. Is there scientific research about this? Is there hope? Or do I just have to learn to deal? It is lonely and depressing to experience the gold standard that is vaginal sex as a kind of animate masturbatory aid. Also, at what point do I tell my partners I have this malfunction?

Wrong Type Freak

"I'd recommend that she spend some time exploring her vagina, trying different positions, experimenting with placing pressure on the posterior and anterior walls of her vagina, and with friction on her cervix," says Meredith Chivers, an assistant professor of psychology, a clinical psychologist, and a sexuality researcher at Queens University in Kingston, Ontario. "The best position to do all this is with her on top, controlling the speed, depth, and trajectory—for lack of a better word—of the thrusts, and pairing this with clitoral stimulation."

If you decide to give vaginal intercourse another shot, Chivers also recommends that you warm up with lots of oral sex, toys, masturbation, and the other stuff you enjoy. That way you'll be "engorged, erect, and lubricated, and subjectively turned on" before penetration.

Chivers also wonders if you've discovered your G-spot. "If she hasn't found her G-spot, finding it might be a watershed moment," says Chivers. "For some women, G-spot stim is associated with experiencing intense 'vaginal' orgasms and ejaculating." Finding the G-spot can be tricky, Chivers adds, and it's best to attempt it when you're very aroused. "Stimulate the anterior wall of the vagina (side nearest the belly button) about five centimeters in," says Chivers, by using a "come here" motion with the index finger.

And if you try all of that—or if you've already tried that—and it doesn't work?

"Perhaps it simply is the case that for her, like a substantial minority of women, vaginal penetration is not all that fulfilling," says Chivers. "If so, I would strongly recommend that she reinterpret her lack of interest in vaginal sex as a preference—one that is not uncommon—and not a malfunction."

"As for telling her partners," says Chivers, "I suppose it depends on the nature of the relationship and whether or not she's willing to be GGG and have vaginal sex to satisfy her partner, even though this may not be her first choice on the menu."

In other words, WTF, if penetration doesn't cause you emotional or physical distress—if it's something you can take or leave—tell a new partner early on about your strong preference for other forms of sex. Then indulge the dude in vaginal intercourse when you're up for it, or he's desperate for it, while incorporating lots of clitoral stimulation during the act.

Meredith Chivers tweets on sex and gender research, sociopolitical issues relating to sexual and gender minorities, and psych research in general. Follow Chivers—and learn from her—on Twitter @QSagelab. (And you can follow me at @fakedansavage.) recommended

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Comments (198) RSS

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Posted by frosty zoom on November 15, 2011 at 7:39 PM · Report this
O my Captain 2
@fakedansavage ???
WTF is that?
Posted by O my Captain on November 15, 2011 at 7:48 PM · Report this
venomlash 3
"At that moment, the blowjob bestower—your friend's new GF, in this case—can remove the dick from her mouth and point it at her tits or over her shoulder or at his mother."
I lol'd at that.
Who is this "fake Dan Savage"? Or for brevity's sake, can we just call him "San Davage"?
Posted by venomlash on November 15, 2011 at 8:00 PM · Report this
Yeah, where's @therealdansavage?
Posted by joemadison on November 15, 2011 at 8:04 PM · Report this
Men don't need to tell us when they've reaching "orgasmic inevitability." We know when he's getting close and we can decide whether to switch to some other option or continue as is. It is incredibly hot when he starts to make those incoherent sounds and clutches the sheets and his movements become involuntary. Yes, I enjoy it a lot but I'm doing this for him. I would hate for him to have to get out of the moment to tell me what's obvious.
Posted by Awake and aware on November 15, 2011 at 8:09 PM · Report this
"I'm a 24 yr old straight girl" are ya sure . . .?
Posted by Tilting on November 15, 2011 at 8:33 PM · Report this
venomlash 7
@5: Don't assume that all guys are alike. Some of us are more collected or cool-headed than others. Everyone's different in bed, and some guys might need to tell their intimate others when.
Posted by venomlash on November 15, 2011 at 8:33 PM · Report this
If anything, NQAD provides more evidence for presumed homsexuality than presumed heterosexuality.

An ACE bandage for a blindfold? I had a non-sexual playmate who always favoured them for restraints, and I agreed with him that they were much more comfortable than anything else I ever encountered.

And my inner cross-examiner is wondering why NQAD mentions the "loss" of virginity as such a great experience instead of saying, "He's the only person with whom I've had sex," etc. The most obvious answer would be that the BF isn't the only person with whom NQAD has been, but then it seems as if the letter might have been different. It could just be fudgy phrasing, of course.
Posted by vennominon on November 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM · Report this
WTF - the thing about having something inside of you, even if it's not moving, is it tends to make you come harder. Just because it's there. Doesn't have to be a dick. Could be a cucumber. But it works. Try masturbating with something inside you, don't get all complicated and move it around, but just have it inside you. See how it goes. Give it a few tries. It's something about giving your muscles something to hold onto. Make sure nothing breakable is directly across from you (crotch rocket alert!). And of course every guy who fucks you should be working your clit, right? Or you are if he isn't? It's true if you aren't getting any clit action, for a lot of women, PIV doesn't do much. Sort of a like a vigorous tooth brushing, but less satisfying. It's pretty easy to fade out and start counting dead bugs trapped in the ceiling light. Don't get all worried about it. PIV is good because of/with clit contact. If you are lucky, you might get some of those inside bits activated too. You can try to work that out on your own or find a handy man. We don't have a lot of feeling up there for a couple of reasons (except in certain spots), so don't get all tragic about your innards not lighting up. They aren't supposed to. It's the outside bits and maybe the first inch or two of depth that are of most worth for most people (hold on tight, you'll feel it more).
Posted by gnot on November 15, 2011 at 8:39 PM · Report this
WTF might also want to try positions that let her use a vibrator while being penetrated. I was like her at the beginning of my sexual life, not really enjoying penetration, but enduring it for my partner's sake, and it sucked. Combining it with the use of the vibrator meant more lubrication, more fun, and the beginning of an association of penetration with orgasms. I still don't come from penetration alone, but it's a lot more fun than it used to be
Posted by whimsical duck on November 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM · Report this
WTF - also, for some reason, breathing matters. Deep slowish (I know, but try), actually seems to make a difference. Kinda weird.
Also of course, being on top. And why not give anal a whirl?
Posted by gnot on November 15, 2011 at 8:49 PM · Report this
While I do realize that all men are different, I have to agree with #5. I know you're coming, you don't need to tell me. I would encourage the conversation of where do you want it to occur before the head of the cock passes between her lips. At least the first few times, unti lshe learns to recognize his tells. After that she can make the decision without consulting him, if she is the decider. I agree the swallow or aim that thing elsewhere should be consensual, but he should at least get a vote.

WTF needs to understand that there is nothing wrong with her. My understanding is that a lot of women don't get much from PIV penetration. Lots of foreplay, lots of masturbation, lots of trying new positions. Also, engaging the parts of her body that she does derive sexual pleasure from during penetrative sex could help. In regards to the gspot advice (yes, Virginia, there really is a Gspot!) try having a clitoral orgasm (or 2 or 3, have a few, they're small) before attempting to locate and stimulate the gspot--it can work like a switch, arousal can cause the gspot area to fill with fluid and become more pronounced. Maybe anal would be her cup of tea. And if she never has a just from vaginal penetration orgasm, so what? Orgasms come in all shapes and sizes, from all sorts of different stimulation. There's no right or wrong orgasm, it really is all good.

Posted by catballou on November 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM · Report this
Re WTF, I disagree with the expert's advice to have her be on top, and instead like catballou's advice @14 to try lots of different positions to see if any are especially fun, and to see which ones work best for clitoral stimuation. (For me, that's doggie style -- the only position where I can really get the Hitachi where I need it.)

I also like catballou's advice to include lots of other parts of the body -- during intercourse, he can nibble your earlobes, tweak your nipples, fondle your ass, insert a finger or toy into your anus...
Posted by EricaP on November 15, 2011 at 9:01 PM · Report this
Re NQAD, I recommend getting a copy of Dossie Easton's The New Topping Book. And look for classes on running a scene or rope tying in your area. The classes themselves are handy, and you'll meet people who can share ideas & tips with you.

I would also advise that, in your own head, you divide your topping activities into two categories:

These are scenes that you, the domme, are secretly doing for him, because you want to please him and help him explore this new realm of his sexuality. In these scenes, the two of you are teammates, helping figure out what flavor & intensity of BDSM he likes. Some things to try – orgasm delay or denial; nipple play; sensation / pain play (for instance, tell him you will spank him until he says yellow, and then he will get 5 more swats. You can also do a trial set for calibration where you ask him to name where each swat lies on a scale from 1 and 10.)

These are to help you start to feel that topping is fun for you. Think of something you enjoy that you don't get often enough: foot massage; back rub; oral sex, him getting you off with the vibrator, whatever. Then make him do it :-) If he doesn't do it long enough, or enthusiastically enough, make him go sit in the corner until he behaves. (Don't reward him for misbehaving by giving him fun sensation play – that teaches the wrong lesson and you'll never feel in charge.)

Again, don't make this distinction explicit – it's important to act as if the Service-Top activities are just as fun for you as the Service-Bottom activities.

I also recommend avoiding punishment scenes unless it's very playful -- ("start at my toes and kiss all the way up to my ears, slowly. If you get up here in less than twenty seconds, I'll give you ten swats on your bottom.") That way he can "disobey" playfully, to "earn" a "punishment" that he really wants.

Another good tip for beginners: if you have the discipline, keep a journal of what you enjoyed and what didn't work so well.
Posted by EricaP on November 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM · Report this
Neptune 15
I think WTF should definitely try clit stimulation during PIV sex. I actually didn't experience an orgasm until I tried that.

But, like some others have said, she doesn't have to be on top for the guy to reach her clit (my ex actually said it was difficult to reach in that position). One really comfortable position to try is placing your knees over his hip while lying down (her on her back, him on his side, facing her). That gives him easy access to the clit while thrusting and lets both people lie down.
Posted by Neptune on November 15, 2011 at 9:23 PM · Report this
While NQAD's boyfriend probably is just embarrassed to talk about his kinky interests, there is another possibility. For at least some submissives, being asked "How do you want me to dominate you?" is a huge, mood-killing turn-off. As unfair as may be to your non-dominant GGG partner, having to tell them "I want you dominate me by doing XYZ" can totally undermine the feeling that they're dominant and in control.
Posted by notfromvenus on November 15, 2011 at 9:36 PM · Report this
Mrs. DePointe 17
@5 I've definitely been with quiet-cumming guys before. I would never get into a relationship with one, but I've had enough one-night stands to know that not every guy gets involuntarily twitchy and vocalize-y when he's near orgasm. He may just close his eyes, which you won't notice if you're sucking his dick.

I'd be pretty pissed if a guy came in my mouth without warning me! I think it's better to discuss "where do you want me to cum?" beforehand. I usually aim it at my chest for a one-night stand.
Posted by Mrs. DePointe on November 15, 2011 at 9:37 PM · Report this
I liked Dan's advice to WTF, which is essentially, keep experimenting, and don't worry that there's something wrong physically or mentally if vaginal never does much for you. I only come from clitoral stimulation (like so many women) but I do get a lot of pleasure from vaginal penetration. But how much pleasure depends on the position. My partner can shift just a bit and the intensity of sensation can drop from 60 to nearly zero. And size can matter a bit (sorry)--I had a partner with a pretty wide cock and that consistently provided more stimulation and sensation (however, my current partner, while slightly less endowed, overall provides MUCH more stimulation and pleasure, just in other ways). So, keep trying the angles and see what it's like when you have different partners.
Posted by sfgurl on November 15, 2011 at 9:40 PM · Report this
I've seldom been able to tell when a guy is going to come from a blow job, and if you're not using a condom then it is often pleasant to have some warning, yes. It's also nice to have feedback throughout! If he says "yes, keep doing that," then I keep doing that, and if some other action gets no special response, I tend to stop doing it. It's more fun for me when I know what things are causing the guy to have fun.

Posted by Suzy on November 15, 2011 at 9:48 PM · Report this
WTF, totally agree with the suggestions to experiment, relax, and stop thinking that something is wrong with you. I'd add: don't think so much of the clitoral and vaginal as different and separate orgasms. There's no steel wall between them, or between the sensations they produce. When I first started having sex, I never had orgasms centered around or beginning in the vagina. Over time, that changed, and now I almost always do. A lot of factors can change over time and affect the experiences you have. As long as you're having fun, I wouldn't worry about it. Just experiment and enjoy it.
Posted by Suzy on November 15, 2011 at 10:03 PM · Report this
Sandiai 21
I may have to break down and finally get a Twitter account.
Posted by Sandiai on November 15, 2011 at 10:34 PM · Report this
Posted by jfghk on November 15, 2011 at 10:47 PM · Report this
Dan, who wrote:
your boyfriend is so submissive that he's submitting to his submissive girlfriend, and how perverted is that?

Been there, done that. By your choice of words alone, Dan, you've made me smile in this dreadfullly cold November morning here.

To NQAD: one thing that worked with some submissive girlfriends of mine who were also surprised by me having submissive desires was to play some little, non-threatening games. For instance, the kissing game: I pretend I really want to kiss her, and she says "no!" dramatically, until I "earn" the right to kiss her -- either at a whim, or by doing something else (even something non-sexual, like washing the dishes) that pleased her. Then she'd say "you've earned your kiss" and we'd share a big vanilla romantic kiss.

That sort of made the mindset of dominance easier for said girlfriends to parse and relate to. Later on, things could evolve, depending on each girl's own interests and level of comfort.

Posted by ankylosaur on November 15, 2011 at 11:32 PM · Report this
To WTF: curiously enough, there are also men for whom the penis-in-vagina (PIV) traditional type of intercourse isn't so rewarding. I'm one of those. PIV sex can be fun, but it takes (for me at least) too much effort for too little sensation. I usually do it at the behest of my female partner (despite the claim -- or fact -- that many women can't orgasm for PIV intercourse alone, I've noticed most girlfriends I had wanted, sometimes even demanded, it).

Maybe finding such a guy -- who wouldn't be so fixated on ejaculating in your vagina -- would be a possibility for you? Or are you rather more interested in trying to make PIV sex worthwhile for you? (I've learned a few tricks, but of course they'd work only on men who don't like PIV sex, not on women).
Posted by ankylosaur on November 15, 2011 at 11:43 PM · Report this
I had that lack of interest in vaginal intercourse thing going on for a long time. I thought I was a dyke even due to this. Then I discovered men who enjoyed and were proficient at giving oral sex. Never mind that dyke thought ;-) I never thought of it as a malfunction tho; I just figured I was one of the majority of women who don't get off that way.

I should note, about 10 years after I discovered that oral was how to get me off, I met a guy who did get me off from sex. He never made it his mission, he never treated me like I was broken, we never "worked on it" just one day while fucking everything went right and it happened. And after a couple of years, we even got really good at making it happen. Good enough that I married him.
Posted by wendykh on November 16, 2011 at 12:13 AM · Report this
@25(wendykh), how sweet! :-)
Posted by ankylosaur on November 16, 2011 at 12:20 AM · Report this
I should also add even while not orgasming from PIV, and it really not having much more sensation than a warm sensual massage at most, I craved it and yes, like 24 says, was one of those women who really "needed" it for sex to feel complete. I just really dug the sensation of a good pounding and knowing my partner was into me. Which leads me to wonder if WTF is simply not orgasming from it, doesn't find it that exciting, or has an outright aversion to it. It's not clear from her letter. I would have freaked out personally to be with a guy who didn't want to fuck even tho I personally wasn't into it in the way I thought I should be.

Oh and go fig, when I did finally start orgasming from PIV and loving it? Plain ol' missionary. And it's the only way I can get there too that I have found thus far, about 7 years in.

Finally, I find it a bit weird WTF chose Dan of all sex columnists to write to about this. I only say that because I remember feeling super inadequate until I had the chance to meet and spend time with a female sex columnist here who very regularly let women know most women can't/don't come from PIV and don't feel bad about it. She really was inspirational to me. So I find it strange I have to say that WTF is not only going to a man, but a gay man who has a rather well known pussy aversion, to get advice on this. I just really think there might be better places out there?
Posted by wendykh on November 16, 2011 at 1:12 AM · Report this
Aaaaaaaand, time to spam about my book again. The Orgasmic Diet. Will help wake up the sleeping vagina. Give it six weeks.
Posted by Marrena on November 16, 2011 at 2:22 AM · Report this
Re LW3: There is no such thing as a "G-Spot": it's a myth invented by straight men so that they can claim that a woman should be satisfied by vaginal penetration only, without clitoral stimulation. (Female ejaculation is similarly a myth: human females do not have a gland with which to produce ejaculate.)

Needing clitoral stimulation is not a "malfunction" for a woman any more than needing penile stimulation is for a male. The clitoris IS the source of the female orgasm.

If your bf is unwilling to take care of your orgasmic needs because he's avoiding your clitoris, then it's time to move on to someone who's mature enough to consider your needs equal to his own.
Posted by BeingABear on November 16, 2011 at 2:48 AM · Report this
When my BF and I were first incorporating a little BDSM into our relationship he came up with a fun game that gave me the experience of submitting while still having a lot of control:

He had two glasses of wine - one, the cup of pleasure, and the other the cup of pain. I continually chose which one I wanted to drink from. If the cup of pain, I got held down, spanked or whipped, if the cup of pleasure, he stroked, kissed or went down on me, maintaining his dominant character. Repeat for as long as both parties are enjoying it, then stop/ fuck/cuddle/whatever. I could request pain as many times in a row as I felt good with it, then switch to pleasure when I needed a break. Very loving, continually consensual, a fun and gradual introduction to the possibilities, with a continual reassessing of boundaries all as part of the scene, with the option to switch to vanilla at any point.

NQAD could try something like that, to get a feel for her boyfriend's preferences very safely for both of them - after first discussing things and thoroughly establishing important preferences and boundaries as well, of course. This kind of game can give you safety for your boyfriend to demonstrate his capacity for pain/submission, without you worrying you're going to go too far, or pushing him into things he doesn't like. As this side of your relationship develops, you can gradually increase the intensity of the activities (if you want to) when you begin to feel confident that you know his needs and limits. And I second Dan's blindfold suggestion, to help you maintain your role, until you're confident!

But he does have to discuss things with you. Important things you NEED to know may include: Is he happy wearing a blindfold? Is he happy to be physically restrained? Does his pleasure come from pain, or only from the idea of being obedient? Are there parts of his body that, if struck, produce a bad, unsafe sense of vulnerability, as opposed to a fulfilling, exciting one? If he likes pain, what degree of pain is ok for him? What degree of helplessness/vulnerability does he want to experience? How far does he want his mistress to help him push his boundaries? Does he have emotional triggers you should be aware of? Until you are confident that you know what he needs and can cope with, he needs to be telling you these things.
Posted by Chloris on November 16, 2011 at 3:01 AM · Report this
@14: what a helpful, practical, concise and friendly bunch of advices! Thank you for taking the time. I'm sure any kink newbie in the LW's position will appreciate it.
Posted by brideoffrankenstein on November 16, 2011 at 4:09 AM · Report this
le sigh. i'm sure it's been said in previous comments but there is NOTHING wrong with you if you just can't come from vaginal penetration.

actually, that is the norm. all these people telling you that you can learn... well they may be right but why make it the be all and end all? and the end effect is to make you feel inadequate when an equally plausible explanation is that your lover is not very competent.

Posted by myrtle on November 16, 2011 at 6:50 AM · Report this
Um. The G-spot is not a myth. Sure, we don't really know shit about it, but I most certainly have one. Clearly you don't.

To the woman who doesn't enjoy PIV sex: that may just be how it's going to be, or it may be because you haven't had good experiences. My first several encounters with PIV were SOOO boring and disappointing I cried for like a day. PIV sex, with the right partner and knowledge about my body, became an ridiculously awesome source of pleasure that has only increased over the years.

But again, as other have said here, there are sooo many other ways to have sex, feel good, and get off.
Posted by hazmatte on November 16, 2011 at 6:59 AM · Report this
Great advice to WTF both in the column and within the forum already.

I would only add that, if she's in the exploratory phase, I would have a clitoral orgasm first before exploring different positions or trying G-spot diving. I too "evolved" to now getting my G-spot in the game as early as possible, but in my early 20s I was one of those fear-consumed fools who didn't think it existed. It was only after I started thinking of the first orgasm as a warm-up, or really a gateway to something far more intense, that things started to change for me.

The advice too of inserting something *without* thrusting (especially if you use it to put sustained pressure on the G-Spot) is, ahem, spot on. If my partner does that shit with hands or toys and then fucks me I go ballistic. Thinking that also makes me think back, with a kind of fondness actually, of that fear-driven fool I was in my 20s who insisted that all women in porn who carry on like that were faking. Ah, to be young again...

Posted by maddy811 on November 16, 2011 at 7:07 AM · Report this
@29 I feel genuinely sorry for you. Truly.

It would be nice if Savage could have one forum on female sexuality where we didn't have to spend time, yet again (ffs!), having to prove that G-spots and female ejaculation are real. If it's this fear-driven and denial-laden in Savage's corner of the world, which should by definition self-select for more sex-positive and open people (plus trolls), I really despair for women elsewhere.

Posted by maddy811 on November 16, 2011 at 7:13 AM · Report this
The first question, with the key fumbling, giggling, etc... makes me hungry to hear more of these. Like BSDM--for lack of a better word--bloopers.

Posted by inbed on November 16, 2011 at 7:25 AM · Report this
addiejd 37

You are a moron.

Just because YOU personally have never experienced stimulation of your G-Spot or ejaculation doesn't mean that other women can't.

Maybe you should look into the vast amount of scientific research proving both a G-Spot and female ejaculation THAT SHE SPECIFICALLY ASKED ABOUT before giving unsolicited advice. Yes, she asked for advice, but she didn't ask YOU for advice, she asked someone who professionally gave advice and also provided a doctor with a degree specifically in sexology to fill in any blanks he had.

Educate your ignorant self before telling someone she should end her relationship, a relationship she MAY NOT EVEN HAVE, as she only mentioned hypothetical partners; she never referenced a real person.


It would be a good idea for him to have a page that compiles scientific studies on sexuality and summarizes them for us general folk, with links to the actual studies if someone wants more information.
Posted by addiejd on November 16, 2011 at 7:26 AM · Report this
@29 That seems to be the most up to date sexual finding, from what I can determine. I suspect women's physical situation is more complicated than has been determined at this point. I say that because our equipment is just more complicated and I think the research, particularly for women's sexuality, is in its infancy.

I don't believe there is a G spot either, at least not with anything like the results from clit stimulation. I know that for me, PIV sex generally creates such a stretch in my entire crotch area that I can't even successfully stimulate my clit at the same time.

I certainly can sympathize with WTF. Inability to come from vaginal sex was a major source of disappointment to me for a long time. I feel such a strong desire for penetration, but then the completion just doesn't happen that way.

I felt inadequate that men had to do so much work and such careful manipulation to get me off. I resented myself for this situation, not them.

Over time I found that I had to actually adapt my body into the discomfort of intercourse before the pain and irritation didn't drop me out of arousal completely. Now I can sometimes have a vaginal orgasm from hard, thrusting penetration, although it's never as big a reaction as a clitoral orgasm.

My tips: Dildos of varying sizes with Gallons of lube. VIBRATORS of every kind. Find a guy who is GGG, and a *willing communicator*. Above all, forgive your body for not behaving like the unrealistic ones you read about in romance novels. Practice delayed satisfaction.

Besides couple foreplay, if you get aroused by reading graphic romance novels, looking at pictures of sex, or viewing porn, do that as well. You can even try writing your own porn as I did. It's the best way to customize precisely what mental images get you in the mood.

If I was rich enough, I'd finance some really good women's porn films. I suspect I'd quickly become one of the 1% . LOL

Posted by Xweatie on November 16, 2011 at 7:33 AM · Report this

Gotta join @33 and @37 on this one--the G-spot is real. Perhaps not all women have one, or perhaps a lot of women have a hard time finding theirs, but it's not a myth.

It is, however, awfully obtuse of you to tell women who have G-spots or are able to ejaculate that these things simply "aren't real." What, are we crazy? Imagining things? When I am able to come hard--and easily-- from penetration alone, is this some kind of psychological anomaly? Fuck that, @29. It's bullshit like this that gives feminism a bad name; not everything is a plot by evil straight men to control us.
Posted by chicago girl on November 16, 2011 at 9:38 AM · Report this
I feel WTF's pain. I, for years, hated vaginal penetration. Particularly if I wasn't "warmed up" enough. It kinda hurt and I certainly never came from just the penetration. Here's what worked for me. I bought a dildo. Not exactly a vibrator, though it did vibrate, more of a jelly-fleshy like thing shaped generally like a penis, and not a huge penis, but a regular one. I would start masturbating with only clitoral stimulation and when I was particularly aroused, I would insert the dildo and just do what felt good, sometimes thrusting, sometimes just keeping it in there and continuing clitoral stimulation. And I started having the most intense, squirty orgasms of my life. And now with my boyfriend, vaginal sex feels good and while I still need intense amounts of foreplay and clitoral stimulation, at least I can come during vaginal penetration. Also, being on top, even with the dildo, is key.

Also, to poster who disbelieves the existence of g-spots and female ejaculation, the science is most definitely not on your side. Dan wrote about this eons ago, but a study was conducted on the chemical composition of female ejaculate and it was NOT urine.
Posted by Loooocey on November 16, 2011 at 9:38 AM · Report this
venomlash 41
@29: babby's first troll
Posted by venomlash on November 16, 2011 at 9:41 AM · Report this
@25 & @27 -- Me, too. All of sudden, it was great. I had passed my 30th birthday. Maybe it was purely physical or maybe I had just become comfortable in my own skin, but PIV is wonderful and now I know what all the fuss is about.
Posted by Bugnroolet on November 16, 2011 at 9:42 AM · Report this
"(Female ejaculation is similarly a myth: human females do not have a gland with which to produce ejaculate.)"

Clearly you have never had (or been) a lover who has female ejaculated: it is *quite* real. (and delightful :).
Posted by Lexy on November 16, 2011 at 9:44 AM · Report this
It's true that "virginity loss" is sex-negative terminology. The preferred term in reproductive health practice is "sexual debut."
Posted by milkshake on November 16, 2011 at 9:46 AM · Report this
This might not be true with all, but every time a girl didn't want me to cum in her mouth she said so before the blowjob. Just a quick "hey, by the way, tell me when you're about to cum, I don't want it in my mouth". Every girl that was ok with it said nothing and just went down. Like others said, it's not hard to tell when a guy is about to blow a load.
Posted by AbefROMAN on November 16, 2011 at 9:58 AM · Report this
I wonder if Sexual Advice Xactly Our Need is a Doctor Who fan.
Posted by blackmoreinc on November 16, 2011 at 10:05 AM · Report this

I agree with everyone who's been saying that it's not hard to tell when a guy's about to come--in general. The first few times you fuck someone, it's just good manners to let the person know when you're about to come. I can usually tell, but I always appreciate the heads up (ugh, no pun intended).
Posted by chicago girl on November 16, 2011 at 10:07 AM · Report this
Do we know that #29 is female?
Posted by clashfan on November 16, 2011 at 11:02 AM · Report this
@19 WHAT?? There are women out there that have FUN giving blow jobs? where can i find one?? All too rare (and valuable)
Posted by jimwis on November 16, 2011 at 11:29 AM · Report this
I used to be so bored by vaginal intercourse that I thought I was a lesbian. But then I actually started dating a guy who has the perfect penis (not too big, not too small), the perfect touch, and the perfect style. Now I am gooey wet without any foreplay and I initiate vaginal intercourse twice a day. I love it. Maybe she just hasn't found the right dick yet.
Posted by cosmosfactory on November 16, 2011 at 11:32 AM · Report this
#29: perhaps you are not female. There is a G-spot, but access to mine requires me to curl up like a squirrel with my head to my knees, pointing my ass up to the ceiling, and being entered from behind. Worth it. Cheers!
Posted by marilynsue on November 16, 2011 at 11:35 AM · Report this
NQAD: Talking about sex is part of having [good] sex. Therefore, as your boyfriend's dom, you could try ordering him to tell you what he wants as part of your play.

16 said that for many subs, telling your partner what to do to you can undermine the feeling of being dominated. But what if you framed it more like this: you're commanding him to make himself vulnerable by confessing his fantasies to you. Speaking for myself, being pressured to share my secret desires, rather than revealing them on my own time, is a very vulnerable experience. It would definitely feel like a power game if somebody did that to me. Your boyfriend might get off on that feeling.
Posted by Skipper Jo on November 16, 2011 at 11:39 AM · Report this
@50: You GO, girl!! I envy you!!! Better hang on to him!
Posted by auntie grizelda on November 16, 2011 at 11:53 AM · Report this
onion 54
WTF - it might also get better as you get older. I also had a "meh" feeling about penetration when I was younger. Vaginal orgasms were out of the question. But I really felt like my body "learned" or "made more connections" down there as I aged. All you teens or 20-somethings: I mean it! Be patient, but don't be afraid to tell your men to focus on other kinds of orgasms in the meantime. Your 30's might be your decade of vaginal epiphany.
But hey - if that doesn't happen there's nothing wrong with that. You got your clit and tits and all other sorts of things to play with.
Posted by onion on November 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM · Report this
@38: "Above all, forgive your body for not behaving like the unrealistic ones you read about in romance novels."

Be very careful about dubbing anyone's sexuality as "unrealistic". There's a whole continuum of orgasmic response, ranging from complete anorgasmia to multiples-at-the-drop-of-a-hat. The picture in romance novels may seem idealized, but it represents some people's reality.

I've noticed that people who struggle with their sexual response like to dismiss the experiences of more responsive people who reach orgasm easily from a variety of stimulation. After a while, it really does start to sound like sour grapes (not saying you did this, though other posters are hinting that way).
Posted by recognition on November 16, 2011 at 12:20 PM · Report this
Most women can't come during vaginal sex. That last girl shouldn't be so concerned.
Posted by june_shinn on November 16, 2011 at 12:24 PM · Report this
NQAD: Extending what #52 said, you might even try an interrogation scene. Simply tie him up and give him a soft, slow, well-lubed handjob while you "interview" him about his naughty little submissive fantasies. Tone of voice can be whatever you feel will get the most erotic response out of him, but if in doubt, start out professional with a hint of sensuality. Stroke him while he's still compliant, coherent and clear-speaking and pause if he lapses or if he gets too close to orgasm. There's no hurry. You will probably notice him becoming more subby as the scene continues. If he has any fetishes you know about, consider making use of them. Applying an exam glove before you start can help set the scene and will ease cleanup afterward. It's your call whether he comes at the end or not, but I recommend going with the opposite of what you think he'd prefer.

Big caution about this type of scenario: just like in official interrogations, information obtained may be unreliable and should be verified before use. He might get a bit ahead of his actual readiness level; note these in your head for later. He might say things he think will please you; a hand gently closed around his balls accompanied by "It'll be much easier if you only tell me the truth" can dissuade that behavior.
Posted by allfullup on November 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM · Report this
I can get off from vaginal stimulation, but usually only after being extensively warmed up. The one exception is when my partner and I have sex laying on the side and he enters from behind - it means his hands are free to do whatever they want, and since I'm not either moving his weight or mine, I can go as fast or hard as I want. Win win for both of us.
Posted by Torchy Blane on November 16, 2011 at 12:38 PM · Report this
I get all twitchy and shit when the deluge is forthcoming, but even if I didn't I'd fake it out of courtesy for the person kind enough to suck my cock to orgasm. (It's just good manners people.) Additionally, asking her where she wants it is a lovely opportunity to engage in some exciting banter. :)

@29: Hey, 1990 called. They want their sex theory back. I'm currently with a woman whose G-spot sensitivity and squirting are things of amazement which just can't be faked.
Posted by repete on November 16, 2011 at 12:52 PM · Report this
@55: Such a response may indeed exist, but because it is a statistical outlier, it is therefore "unrealistic" to expect most people to respond in that fashion. They aren't saying you specifically are an "unrealistic" actress in bed because you happen to come like a Harlequin heroine.

Anybody who is told that, for example, multiple orgasm is "unrealistic," thinks to herself "Well, I'm multiply orgasmic," and ends up feeling delegitimized by that should go see someone about her self-esteem issues. That's roughly the same as feeling bad about getting all A's in school when it's unrealistic to expect everyone to. It would be silly to feel anything but (quietly) pleased with yourself.
Posted by avast2006 on November 16, 2011 at 12:54 PM · Report this
WTF: You should also know that there are males out there (myself included)that just aren't that turned on by vaginal. Everyone else seems game and I've gone along, but I find it can't really stand up to intense foreplay or other options.

So find the things you do like, and don't be able to tell your partners about them! Some guy may simply breathe a sigh of relief and just say, "yea, me neither."
Posted by landlocked on November 16, 2011 at 12:57 PM · Report this
@30 – great ideas!
@31 – thank you!
@57 - hot!

@40 "Also, being on top, even with the dildo, is key." – Could you describe how that works with the dildo? Are you squatting or kneeling, or lying down on your stomach? And do you remove the dildo before squirting? And if so, do you remove it before you start to feel the approach of the inevitable orgasm, or after?

@49 many, many women in America love giving blowjobs. Try asking passionately for blowjobs and show your pleasure by moaning while she does it. Also give her sex acts in return that she asks for and loves. Then dump any woman who doesn't have fun with both giving and receiving – in other words, stand up for yourself and take your sexual desires (and hers) seriously.
Posted by EricaP on November 16, 2011 at 1:32 PM · Report this
mydriasis 63

Oh, honey...

Are you just sad your man can't find yours? Why don't you go whip yourself up a batch of cookies and make yourself feel better. A bit of sugar might calm down your wacky conspiracy theories.

Moving on: some women absolutely CAN be satisfied from vaginal penetration alone (no fingers! no vibrator!) and some of these women even forgo receiving oral sex because they'd much much much prefer get to the good part and skip ahead to getting pounded. Yeah, hi.
Posted by mydriasis on November 16, 2011 at 3:37 PM · Report this
mydriasis 64

I'm sorry, you think women who don't enjoy receiving oral sex should get dumped? Dislike.
Posted by mydriasis on November 16, 2011 at 3:42 PM · Report this
65 gotta RUB your clit while he's bangin' ya. Most women are like that - there is NOTHING wrong with you! Dan should have stressed that more! And sex expert is stupid!
Posted by koshkamat on November 16, 2011 at 3:55 PM · Report this
@64 -- nope. read it again. I'm telling him to figure out what sex acts she loves, and give her lots of that. I'm not referring to receiving oral sex, but receiving sexual pleasure, by whatever means works for that woman. And, yes, I think men-who-love-receiving-sexual-pleasure should dump women-who-don't-love-receiving-sexual-pleasure. My experience is that sex has to be about both people's pleasure (simultaneously or in turns), or it will shrivel up and die.
Posted by EricaP on November 16, 2011 at 4:08 PM · Report this
elmsyrup 67
I could take or leave vaginal penetration. Then I reached my sexual peak and found my position (from behind, with my head hanging over the edge of the bed), and it makes me SCREAM. So there's still hope.
Posted by elmsyrup on November 16, 2011 at 4:23 PM · Report this
mydriasis 68

I'm on board with that.
I find that men who LOVE giving oral have a certain vibe that I find reeeeeally unattractive.
You're right though, I agree. :)
Posted by mydriasis on November 16, 2011 at 4:58 PM · Report this
@46 (blackmoreinc): Haha, I had the same thought! *fistbump*

As to NQAD: If you're finding it hard to shake off your own submissiveness, think of the whole dominating-him thing as a service to him. He clearly wants it, so you're actually submitting to his desires by being dominant. Yes, it's convoluted, and that's why BDSM is fun!
Posted by Whovian on November 16, 2011 at 5:38 PM · Report this
addiejd 70

29 is female. This is not her first comment and if you go to her profile you can see that other comments of hers mention that she is female. Unless, of course, 41 is right; trolling is done by both sexes.
Posted by addiejd on November 16, 2011 at 6:09 PM · Report this
WTF Dan -- really? You didn't tell her that it's not a malfunction. It's actually more normal than not!! Most women rarely or never have an orgasm from vaginal stimulation alone. I'm 32 and have been sexually active since I was 18. I've done it in every single position and at every angle. And I have never had an orgasm from vaginal stimulation. Which is actually totally normal. Every study I've ever read (many) say that somewhere between 70-90% of women have the same experience. And not every woman has a g-spot. In fact, many sex researchers would to as far as to say most women don't have a g-spot. I know I don't have one. The only orgasms I've had were from some kind of clitoral stimulation. Like most women. Which makes sense -- the clitoris and the penis are made out of the same tissue. Even women who do have vaginal orgasms usually have them because of some kind of indirect clitoral stimulation. You're usually awesome Dan. But I think you talked to the wrong expert about this one. Your last couple of paragraphs were the only ones you really needed. And I don't even think she needs to tell her partners as if this is some kind of "malfunction" or unusual thing she has. Most guys already know this if they've had sex with a few women since most women need clitoral stimulation to reach orgasm! And if they don't know yet, then she can teach them -- not just about her, but about normal female sexual response. Then the next girl won't have to explain it to them!
Posted by caliclimbergrl on November 16, 2011 at 6:42 PM · Report this
I'm built like WTF and I don't think I'm a freak, I think a lot of women are like that. We're brainwashed by porn to believe that a woman's favourite sex act is penetration.
Posted by tbird on November 16, 2011 at 6:46 PM · Report this
mydriasis 73

Ugh. I've never watched straight porn in my life and penetration is my favourite sex act by a million miles. Disagree.

If you don't like it, that's fine, but just leave it at that.
Posted by mydriasis on November 16, 2011 at 6:59 PM · Report this

caliclimbgirl, when you say that orgasm from penetration comes from "indirect clitoral stimulation," you're right...sort of. The current research says that what is traditionally considered the clitoris is the external portion of a much larger organ, which extends across the labia and surrounds the wall of the vagina. In that case, it's not indirect stimulation at all.

I don't think Dan pushed the idea that this girl is somehow malfunctioning, because it's true that many women never come from penetration alone. However (and I think some of the comments here will back me up on this), just because a woman hasn't really enjoyed vaginal penetration doesn't mean that she can't enjoy it. It's not helpful to make a big deal out of it either way, but I don't think your approach is particularly helpful either:
Most guys already know this if they've had sex with a few women since most women need clitoral stimulation to reach orgasm! And if they don't know yet, then she can teach them -- not just about her, but about normal female sexual response.'s those crazy G-spot bitches who are abnormal, is it? The average straight guy should be aware of all varieties of "normal" in female sexuality. And women who have yet to come from vaginal intercourse shouldn't close themselves to the possibility, because their bodies might surprise them down the road (see @25, @27, @42 and @50).
Posted by chicago girl on November 16, 2011 at 7:11 PM · Report this
mydriasis 75



It does feel like a put down when people try to say that the way you are is some fictional thing created by porn and real women aren't that way. I'm a skinny girl who is proportionately well endowed in the breast department, and I hear women say all the time about how that combo is "not natural" and only happens from plastic surgery and it's just a male fantasy and blah blah blah. And it's not just that, I also prefer PIV to all other sex acts (which several women here have said is a made up male thing) and I am very vocal and etc etc etc.

It is eventually somewhat upsetting to hear, especially when it feels so constant.

Most of the time I'm able to shrug it off and just assume people are jealous or it's sour grapes as 50 said but that takes quite a bit of ego to sustain and even a person with a healthy self esteem might struggle to come to that conclusion each and every time.
Posted by mydriasis on November 16, 2011 at 7:13 PM · Report this
"Stimulate the anterior wall of the vagina (side nearest the belly button) about five centimeters in,"

Or not.

Everyone I've ever known who likes g-spot stimulation - and especially those who have huge gushing g-spot orgasms - have their g-spots at or very near the vaginal entrance (again, at the top, but this is the only correlation). Just like I've always been told, it's a spongy spot, but it's position can vary fairly widely in my experience.
Posted by gromm on November 16, 2011 at 9:21 PM · Report this 77
I still need to read the rest of the comments, but a bit of advice for NQAD: If he isn't comfortable just sitting down and telling you, have him describe it to you like a sexy fantasy (possibly during mutual masturbation). You can even "order" him to describe a fantasy. That might make it sexier for him than feeling like he's handing you a script. When i first started subbing, I felt like it might tell the fun out to have to tell the dom what do do, so I just told them my (realistic) fantasies while making out. Good Luck!
Posted by on November 16, 2011 at 9:41 PM · Report this
Hey WTF, try not to stress about this. You're normal. And I promise you that sex changes a lot for most women from your early 20's - your 30's.

A big part of it, I have to say, is that the men you will be with will be more experienced and better lovers.

When I was your age I thought PiV sex was fun, but not terriby exciting. Or particularly orgasmic. Now the kind of orgasm I recieve via PiV is earth shattering. It just takes some time. Have some fun on your own with a toy, when the pressure's off, to see what you like, and find a guy who's dick fits you well, and whose sexual cadence matches what yours. It'll happen, I promise.
Posted by Diannna on November 16, 2011 at 9:41 PM · Report this
I've got a question: I find it better to stimulate a woman's G-spot with the middle finger...seems to be easier and with a better orientation than the index finger. Perhaps a stupid observation, but do other people feel the same?
Posted by Approaching 40 in LA on November 16, 2011 at 9:52 PM · Report this
my husband tried to stimulate my gspot once and it was just intensely uncomfortable. he's doing it wrong? or i don't have one? or should i be further along in the process than just-got-undressed? in any case, i was not encouraged.
Posted by ellarosa on November 16, 2011 at 10:27 PM · Report this
@80 You need to be really turned on already. Further along in the process, yes.
Posted by Diannna on November 16, 2011 at 11:11 PM · Report this
@79: Hmmmmmmm.....MIDDLE finger vaginal & G-spot stimulation...
Thanks! I'll try that!
Posted by auntie grizelda on November 16, 2011 at 11:17 PM · Report this 83
@80, @81 has a good point, but even then, I have to be rather gentle about it. Too much poking in that area can be VERY painful to me, and I normally come VERY easily from purely vaginal sex. I think it just depends on the person, though it can be better when I'm further along.
Posted by on November 17, 2011 at 12:47 AM · Report this 84
I also suggest girl-on-top for trying it, because you have greater control (to keep it from being too much, or too poke-y).
Posted by on November 17, 2011 at 12:50 AM · Report this
@40 let's see that study.

Any moron can tell that it's just pee.
Posted by PHOTO URINE on November 17, 2011 at 4:40 AM · Report this
Posted by dolly on November 17, 2011 at 5:51 AM · Report this
29 does have a point. If a guy refuses to touch the clitoris and tells his girlfriend she should be able to come from PIV alone, without foreplay, she has a very good reason to DTMFA.
Posted by Ashley Amber on November 17, 2011 at 5:53 AM · Report this
@60: To me, it seems like women who aren't highly orgasmic push hard to have THEIR version of reality construed as normative, and the women who are highly orgasmic branded as "outliers". Yet that statistical curve doesn't match up with my experience AT ALL. Should we construct an image of women's sexuality that emphasizes the low-response end of the continuum, just to keep some women from feeling bad?

It's no secret that many women who have a hard time getting off, and who don't enjoy it all that much when they do, resent intensely multiorgasmic women. Some will even accuse multiorgasmic women of lying -- of making it up to please a man, or for the sake of theatrics or status, or whatever. They're usually the ones who pop up saying that the G-spot isn't real, that clitoral stimulation is the ONLY way, that if a woman claims to have an orgasm from just PIV then she's faking it, and so on. Why? Because that's THEIR experience...but not everyone's, or even most women's. But they want their experience to be normative, because otherwise they have to acknowledge that their dissatisfaction isn't universal.

I don't think sexology has caught up to reality in this department. We've gone from the Freudian perspective, which says that PIV is everything in order to reinforce normative heterosexuality, to the second-wave feminist perspective of the 1970s, which says that PIV is nothing in order to destroy normative heterosexuality. Both perspectives are fatally flawed, and both have deep-seated political agendas, but sexology is dominated by the latter -- and researchers have a habit of finding what they're already looking for.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 7:22 AM · Report this
"She's the decider". I'm sorry to disagree with you, Dan, but it's common knowledge that George W. Bush is the decider. I've even heard him say it more than just a few times. Even though I've got Dubya on my speed dial, he never seems to be available for a decision in time. Another thing, I've also heard Dubya call himself the "dick tater". Exactly what is a "dick tater"? Is it like a genital wart or something? Anybody who knows, please jump right in!
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on November 17, 2011 at 7:30 AM · Report this
@52, @57 and @72 are correct, NQAD. Tie that boy up and tell him to start spilling - if he does tell you a real fantasy, rub his dick a little and if he doesn't, threaten to smack it one. A light smack on his cock and a promise to hit a little harder the next time (and the time after that) is very motivational (just don't hit too hard leaving bruises is bad).

Promise him that you'll let him orgasm if he tells you the truth and threaten that he'll get nothing for a week (or longer) if he doesn't tell you everything.

Ask him what he wants you to call him - his name, maybe, or 'boy', 'toy', 'slut', perhaps? Ask him to tell you exactly how he intends to serve you - his fantasy might be to lick you to orgasm, be 'forced' to cook you dinner or to just be utterly passive while subjected to whatever your cruel whims are. Ask how you should punish him when he is bad. Ask how you could reward him when he is good. Make him tell you a fantasy he jacks off to. And watch which questions/ answers make him hard.

Happy Topping!
Posted by Schweighsr on November 17, 2011 at 8:51 AM · Report this
@88 - the Mayo Clinic says: "Although some women can reach orgasm during intercourse, many women find it easier and actually prefer to achieve orgasm through oral or manual stimulation of the clitoris."…

When you say "that statistical curve doesn't match up with my experience AT ALL." - do you mean that the studies you have done of thousands of women reveal that most are highly orgasmic? Or do you mean that your twenty best friends tell you they are highly orgasmic?
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 9:00 AM · Report this
@78 - It seems foolish to promise her that she'll eventually have earth-shattering orgasms from PIV sex. People are different. A 2005 twin study "found that between 34 and 45% of the variation in ability to orgasm can be explained by underlying genetic variation."…
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 9:06 AM · Report this
Just to be clear, I think it is great for multiorgasmic women, ejaculating women, or women who come easily from PIV, to tell us about their experiences and to expect to be taken seriously and not be accused of lying.

But I think it's odd for them to act as if they are the norm, rather than roughly a standard deviation away from the norm. (Not an outlier; I'd reserve that for someone who regularly squirted, multiple times, from PIV alone. Like someone on the other end who wasn't able to orgasm by any means at all, even after taking a class on the subject with Betty Dodson...)
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 9:35 AM · Report this
I would so welcome some comments in depth from Mr Ank on Dump Culture.
Posted by vennominon on November 17, 2011 at 11:16 AM · Report this
@91: I don't really think your question is sincere, so I'm not interested in answering it. On the topic of medical studies, though, it would be worth reading some of the recent articles that have been published (The New Yorker had a pretty good one) about how many of them have turned out to be 100% bogus. You wouldn't be referencing the Mayo Clinic if it weren't telling you what you wanted to hear.

Female sexuality is extraordinarily complicated, and depends massively on physical, emotional, and psychological factors which make quantitative study almost impossible. The same woman who thinks that she needs twenty minutes of intense clitoral stimulation to have a basically unsatisfying orgasm with a guy she doesn't love, can suddenly become powerfully multiorgasmic from PIV (or dildo-in-vagina) if she's with the right partner who has the right penis/dildo, and they're passionately in love, and she works through whatever issues made her predisposed to not want to let go 100%.

Or not: some people never reach that point, and maybe never will, and maybe they don't want to. Or they reach it with one lover, and never get back to it with anyone else. Or they reach that point, and then go on the Pill, and suddenly they can barely get off.

If you really want to know what I think, here's your answer:

Our culture is so profoundly fucked up that we have incredible difficulty being open to genuine sexual pleasure. When I hear about a woman who thinks PIV feels like "a finger in a fist", I feel the same way that I do about a man who pounds away at his sexual partners because that's the only way he feels anything. People are anesthetized, alienated, numb, and filled with bottomless pits of rage and hatred and resentment. It's not fashionable to say so, but none of their experiences are ever "normal", even if they prove to be the statistical mean. Barring injury, the problem is between people's ears, and in their hearts.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 11:26 AM · Report this
@50 - I'm a guy, but I think you have some of the best advice here: find the right dick. I don't think my style, rhythm or my dick have changed much in like 20 years. And some girls, PIV with me, rocks their world. Others...I do nothing for. Of course, a considerate partner would do other things and I think the advice to get good and warmed up first is fantastic adivce - have at least one nice clitoral orgasm from oral first, and then start trying different positions (the squirrel thing was hilarious) to see what 'hits it' for you.

@WTF - Dan's advice is great. Get a book too as others suggested and sit down on the couch together during snuggle time (not sex time) and talk about the various ideas you get as you read the book together.
Posted by asdfqwerty_has_dogs on November 17, 2011 at 11:38 AM · Report this
@85: My ejaculate is not pee. It tastes like my vaginal fluid, it's just a lot thinner. It's not yellow, it doesn't smell or taste like pee. Honestly, I don't need a study to tell me it's not pee. My boyfriend also thinks that it's not pee, since he's not into watersports but he'll still lick up my squirt because it's sweet.
Posted by alguna_rubia on November 17, 2011 at 11:55 AM · Report this
@68 "I find that men who LOVE giving oral have a certain vibe that I find reeeeeally unattractive."

Whaa? Can you elaborate please? I'm genuinely curious.

Oh, and I goofed above, I meant @NQAD, not @WTF.

@recognition - you are definitely sounding like a "bottomless pit of rage and hatred and resentment". What the heck?
Posted by asdfqwerty_has_dogs on November 17, 2011 at 12:16 PM · Report this
@95 - Educate people, wake them up, sure, but don't say they're in the minority when they're not. I agree with you that we don't have any idea what women's potential sexual response might be, in an ideal world -- but we're not there yet and it's not helpful to scold people as if it's their individual fault for having trouble.

@98 Some men really want their partners to come, but have a chip on their shoulder about how that should happen. For me, it takes the form of them not wanting the vibrator around.
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 12:39 PM · Report this
mydriasis 100

It's sort of an intuitive thing, to be honest, so it's hard to describe or elaborate on. I guess just in my own personal experience I've seen a correlation between men who love to give oral and pseudointellectual types as well as guys who fancy themselves very sensitive and enlightened. Plus, honestly, physically as well. I wonder if unattractive guys develop a love of oral sex if they aren't able to develop the skill of being hilarious. :p

I'm not saying these things are actually related, I've just found it to be a weird quirk of my personal experience.

"Just to be clear, I think it is great for multiorgasmic women, ejaculating women, or women who come easily from PIV, to tell us about their experiences and to expect to be taken seriously and not be accused of lying."

It would be great. If it happened. :p
Do you think I'm acting like it's the norm?
Posted by mydriasis on November 17, 2011 at 12:48 PM · Report this
@99: I think we've gone too far, though, with the pendulum swinging so that nothing is ever any woman's fault. It's all either biology, or biochemistry, or anatomy, or the patriarchy -- anything but self-knowledge, self-reflection, and the admission that one's own issues aren't anyone else's fault.

I mean, look: we don't have a problem telling guys that premature ejaculation, impotence, or retarded ejaculation are problems that need to be fixed, and that make them subpar lovers until they work things out. Why is it forbidden for women to ever be told the same thing, i.e. that mastering the mechanics of their own bodies are an important part of being a good lover -- that it's their RESPONSIBILITY to do so -- and why do we go a step further, and so often insist that female sexuality be defined by its least enthusiastic, most walled-off participants?

@98: I think if what I said doesn't have any resonance for you, you're either very very lucky, or haven't gotten out much. The world is full of deeply fucked-up people who see the world in adversarial, power-oriented terms, and who pride themselves on how little they feel; it's also full of intensely loving people who see the world in generous, compassionate terms, and who are open to feeling dangerous emotions like love and intense sexuality.

The former group should be treated as pathological, not normative...but they're also the ones most interested in power, so they usually set the terms of discussion.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 12:56 PM · Report this
@100 - well, to be honest, since I like to fancy myself one of those guys who loves to give oral, I wondered where the axe would fall; "pseudointellectual types as well as guys who fancy themselves very sensitive and enlightened" kinda hits uncomfortably close to home! ;-)

I developed my love of it married to someone who insisted that PIV "did nothing for her, never would, don't bother trying, and get busy doing tongue pushups 'cause that'll take a good half hour and is the only thing that works". I'm pretty good looking, so I didn't have to bother with hilarious.

If we ever meet and have sex I'll remember to put on my caveman throw-you-down-and-pump-you persona first. Cheers!

@100 "Some men really want their partners to come, but have a chip on their shoulder about how that should happen." Not much you can do about that huh? Weak egos.

Like the majority of guys out there, I'm pretty much out of action after I orgasm, for a least a little while (naptime!), so I like to offer oral to make sure that my partner has at least one orgasm and to improve the odds of PIV resulting in orgasm too. It may tend to the formulaic.
Posted by asdfqwerty_has_dogs on November 17, 2011 at 1:02 PM · Report this
I think some of this discussion is presuming that we "highly orgasmic women" (bah) are saying that we have "look, ma, no hands! orgasms" by posing this false binary of clitoral stimulation versus PIV sex. The folks citing the stats documenting that most women require clitoral stimulation seem to be implying that women who enjoy penetration are rarities because we are not experiencing clitoral stimulation at the same time.

To me that simplifies the matter in a way that introduces error. Clitoral stimulation is the route and means to any and all orgasms, but successive orgasms and deepening arousal sensitizes/awakens its deeper tissues, making penetration or G-spot play increasingly more pleasurable and heightening the magnitude of the orgasm when it arrives. And the more aware you get of triggering that awakening process, the easier it gets to do it, and the more penetration becomes essential to the sense of feeling sated. Women who climax from penetration aren't doing something "different" from women who orgasm through clitoral stimulation alone, nor are they anatomically fundamentally different or somehow unusual. The issues here are magnitude of arousal, number of orgasms, taking the time to awaken those tissues (again, steady pressure rather than thrusting really does the trick, at least for me), and learned experience. For myself I've learned that penetration does little for me until I've had an orgasm, which means I actually "fit" within the statistic that most women require clitoral stimulation to orgasm.

As someone who came to learn this over her 20s, I just refuse to believe that I somehow am a "rarity" among women, and, instead, hope that most women learn this over time as well. Yes, women's anatomy varies (women whose clits are close to their vaginal entry, I understand, climax much easier without a manual assist), but I think the general process is similar.

At least I hope it is.

I saw a porn clip once, wish I heartily wish I could forget, where a woman reached down for her clit as a guy was fucking her and the guy got visibly angry, grabbed her hand and pinned it beneath her. Just as Dan says that you should ask for a refund if a partner refuses oral, I think we all should think of clit stimulation as routine part of any penetrative sex. No need for either/or; AND is much more fun.

Posted by maddy811 on November 17, 2011 at 1:04 PM · Report this
@100: So the guys who like to eat pussy are either ugly, poseurs, or quote-unquote "sensitive"? That's pretty brutal...

...though I do know what you're talking about, actually. Most "hot" guys don't need to eat pussy because they can afford to be selfish. If the woman's unsatisfied, they can just go get a different one -- it's not like they mind having an excuse to do what they want to do anyway.

But there are also attractive guys who like eating pussy who are genuinely loving, thoughtful, and sincerely interested in the woman's pleasure for reasons that go beyond their own egos.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 1:05 PM · Report this
Dammit! I cannot properly reference my replies today! EP, you'll recognize the quote above and know that it is for you, and not for @100.

@101 - I don't really agree with your angry tone, but I certainly agree that, as my father put it to me (in a bizarre rare moment of parenting, which was more about ranting about his spouse), "your orgasm is your own responsibility".

I have also run into some of the people you talk about, in bed no less, but there adversarial behavior seems to have had less to do with some kind of conscious misanthropy than with an unconscious need to protect themselves out of fear. They need compassion and understanding (though I don't recommend pursuing sex with them) more than anger.
Posted by asdfqwerty_has_dogs on November 17, 2011 at 1:10 PM · Report this
@103: "Clitoral stimulation is the route and means to any and all orgasms"

This is verifiably untrue, and exactly the kind of thing I find objectionable because it's just way too categorical. I don't disagree with your larger point about awakening deeper tissues (especially if you acknowledge that the clitoris is a far larger body than most people realize), but there are people who have orgasms from having their nipples stimulated, or their necks, or while giving a BJ and not touching or grinding themselves in any way.

@102: Honestly, your (ex-?) wife sounds like a lousy lay. She might be able to compensate in other ways, but when someone needs 30 minutes of tongue push-ups to get off, it turns sex into work.

BTW, there are plenty of women out there who take it personally if a guy can't get off through oral sex, or through PIV, or pretty much anything they want. Ego is universal; women are just subtler about expressing it.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 1:12 PM · Report this
@106: "[T]here are people who have orgasms from having their nipples stimulated, or their necks, or while giving a BJ and not touching or grinding themselves in any way"

Absolutely true! But the orgasm itself are contractions (is that the right word?) of the clitoris; that was the point I was making.
Posted by maddy811 on November 17, 2011 at 1:24 PM · Report this
@102 "I like to offer oral to make sure that my partner has at least one orgasm"

@104 "there are also attractive guys who like eating pussy who are genuinely loving, thoughtful, and sincerely interested in the woman's pleasure..."

It's just important for people who date women to acknowledge that some fraction of women are like mydriasis and me (maybe 10%?), people who really don't want you to go down on us. For me, well, it's okay, and I can put up with receiving oral if you really want to do it, but the odds of it being fun and relaxing for me are low, so don't do me any favors.

If you're interested in my orgasm, break out the Hitachi; if you're interested in giving me mind-blowing pleasure, deliver increasingly harder blows to my ass or shoulders for twenty minutes... but don't lick my pussy and say it's because you're so interested in pleasing me.
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 1:38 PM · Report this
"Curiosity" is the name of a series on Discovery Channel, hosted by Maggie Gyllenhaal. If you can, check out the episode on female sexuality, because the brain activity graphics during orgasm are awesome.

During the episode one of the researchers, using MRI or some similar imaging technique, shows a graphic of the internal structure of the clitoris, which extends back to, and bifurcates around, the vagina. According to said researcher the G-spot is part of the internal clitoris. As to ejaculation, they didn't address it (but I've written several posts about the joys of being soaked in my wife's juices that came from somewhere down there).

@80, I also use my tongue to stimulate my wife's G-spot, but I suspect that starting slowly (until otherwise tested) is always a good idea. That being said, I can't believe the force my wife bears down on my finger sometimes when she's bucking away. Fortunately by that point she's usually soaking the bed/towel, so there's plenty of slip.

WTF, practice makes perfect. My wife had been married for 8 years, and had 1 kid, before she could let go of the fear of making a mess (she said) and ended up ejaculating (squirting, whatever) on the hotel room floor*. I think it scared the shit out of her to be that out of control, but many first time experiences are like that.


* I was SOOO proud of her. She is such an interesting mix of hesitation and fearlessness. My job is to figure out which lines to be bent, and which not to cross.
Posted by Married in MA on November 17, 2011 at 1:47 PM · Report this
mydriasis @100 - no, I think you're speaking for yourself.

maddy811@103 -I think you are on solid ground here. I would just emphasize, personally, trying to provide comfort and education to women who find orgasm hard (and PIV orgasm especially hard). Baby steps. If they don't orgasm, you discuss different ways to get there; if they orgasm but not with anyone else in the room, you discuss techniques for getting there. If clitoral is easy, you talk about what to try with the third or fourth orgasm of the night. On and on, until (as you've done with me), you're discussing how to have mind-blowing, squirting orgasms in whatever positions you prefer, with however many people you prefer in attendance.
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 1:48 PM · Report this
@108: Fair enough. But the counterpoint is that people have a right to seek out a dynamic that turns them on. People who like to eat pussy aren't just doing it because they want to pat themselves on the back; they do it because when they're eating pussy and the woman is into it, then it's a feedback loop that turns them on. It's not just "for them" or "for her", any more than (say) ballroom dancing is.

It's probably tempting from your vantage point to feel like their preference is selfish, but the truth is that if a person really likes eating pussy, they're probably not so compatible with you. And that's not your fault, but it's not theirs either.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 1:53 PM · Report this
@103 with reference to @109 and the TV show,

Some researcher got a woman to orgasm while in an MRI machine, and the resultant activity lit up pretty much her whole brain. Later in the show she was able to repeat the performance without any physical stimulation; she had an orgasm by just thinking her way to it. As the PERL community states: TMTOWTDI (There's More Than One Way To Do It!).

Posted by Married in MA on November 17, 2011 at 2:01 PM · Report this
@111 Offering oral is not selfish; the selfishness is diagnosed from how the guy responds to my disinterest. If it's my turn for orgasm/pleasure, then try to have fun at that moment with what I actually enjoy -- and just don't see me again if that didn't end up being fun for you.
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 2:15 PM · Report this
mydriasis 114

Dingdingding! Bingo.
I'm in the same boat (except for the hitachi thing, I'm all about straight up PIV.)


What women find attractive definitely varies. A lot of the guys who I'm referring to would probably be considered attractive to most women. Hey ladies, I'll be expecting flowers. :p

In terms of your 'better chance of orgasm' thing I don't know. In my books it's better if a guy has a quick rebound and we can get on to round two, three...

I'm not trying to get with guys who love to eat out women, so I don't need to worry about offending them :p.
Yes, my response was snarky and somewhat mean but I went out of my way to point out that it was personal experience and by no means universally true at all. I was just answering his question.

Sincerely interested in my pleasure? Not selfish in bed? Sounds pretty 'sensitive' to me. Pass!
Posted by mydriasis on November 17, 2011 at 2:38 PM · Report this
@109: Great story. I think you actually nailed something really important with this comment:

"I think it scared the shit out of her to be that out of control, but many first time experiences are like that."

That can be the difference between an OK lover and a great lover -- the ability to let *yourself* go out of control. It can manifest in a lot of different ways, but I think that as long as someone needs to be in control all the time, sex with them will never be that great.

I also don't think sex with people who need to be controlled is generally that great, either. Either way it makes sex about performance, about power, about the ability to do something so intimate without any real vulnerability in play. Maybe that turns some people on, but when I've had sex with people like that, I usually find that they're crude and unimaginative in bed, and don't really seem to bring any empathy to sex.

(BTW I've known some serious control freaks who were able to get rid of that in bed, and were great lays. Conversely I've known some loosey-goosey "life is beautiful" types who were horrible lays because, to them, it was just another form of navel contemplation.)
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 2:51 PM · Report this
@113: It's also not selfish to lose interest in sex if you know what you like, and the other person doesn't like it. Yes, that goes both ways, but most people are understandably disappointed and annoyed when they realize they've wasted their time with someone who's just not on their wavelength. The classy thing to do is to stick around and get you off, of course.

@114: Whatever floats your boat, or whatever isn't interested in floating your boat. Either way, whatever: I'm glad someone likes getting with men who don't really give a shit about women, since it saves everyone else some grief.
Posted by recognition on November 17, 2011 at 3:03 PM · Report this
@103 I know where you're coming from, BUT that scene you describe is exactly what my g/f does to me if I make the mistake of touching her clit during PIV (stimulating it during foreplay is an entirely different story, but she's still usually eager to proceed to penetration). She's the only woman I've experienced that with, every other one I've been with has had completely the opposite reaction.

@108 And yes, oral does next-to-nothing for her, too. But she tolerates it when I occasionally perform it on her (which is a WHOLE LOT less often that I would if she really enjoyed it), unlike touching her clit during PIV which is verboten. Perhaps I should try some of your other suggestions ...

I seriously think the only generalization you can make about women's sexual response is that you cannot generalize anything about it (I seem to remember a very old Savage Love, maybe even when it was still Hey Faggot!, where Dan solicited letters from women describing their turn-ons/turn-offs and juxtaposed letters describing completely opposite reactions to the same thing) ...
Posted by picked_on_in_bed on November 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM · Report this
I like to eat (very preferably shaven) women, because I like them them to writhe. If they act bored or indifferent, like some here, I know to back off.

So much for those who consider me insensitive.
Posted by Hunter78 on November 17, 2011 at 3:33 PM · Report this
@116 - "It's also not selfish to lose interest in sex if you know what you like, and the other person doesn't like it."

Yes, yes it is selfish. Since we're talking about the other person's orgasm. If a woman lost interest in intercourse when the man switched to a rhythm that would get him off, even though she preferred it slower... yes, that's selfish. She doesn't have to come back the next day, but it's certainly selfish to only be interested in sex that is exactly what you like and nothing else.
Posted by EricaP on November 17, 2011 at 3:46 PM · Report this
For anyone in Seattle who doesn't believe in the Gspot 'myth', who wants to know how to find the gspot, who wants to know how to manipulate the gspot for a hell of a good orgasm, or who just wants a fun evening with a remarkably cool lady, Seattle Babeland is hosting the incomparable Tristan Taormino and her outstanding workshop on the Gspot and female ejaculation. http://tristantaormino-eorg.eventbrite.c…

You lucky bastards. I've been to this workshop, I wish I could go again. Go. Go. Take your friends, your husbands, your wives, your mothers. Sadly, it's in a retail store, so no hands on demonstrations. But it's worth going, all the same.
Posted by catballou on November 17, 2011 at 5:26 PM · Report this
Married in MA @112, you're just asking for trouble now, bringing up the whole think your way to orgasm thing. Haven't you learned by now that women only climax when you press the magic button?

I once climaxed at work (completely unexpectedly) as a result of extremely sexy IMs and controlled breathing with my IM buddy on the phone. Completely hands free, no wiggling in my chair even. After that I figured out how to incorporate breathing into gspot stimulation--the orgasms are so good, I don't particularly care that those who have not experienced it claim the gspot doesn't exist, or that squirting equals peeing. I know better,and I'm more attuned to myself sexually as a result of the things that I have learned about myself, my body, and my sexual response.
Posted by catballou on November 17, 2011 at 5:42 PM · Report this
I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on this, but as far as I'm concerned it's not just PIV vs oral sex, it's PIV vs oral sex vs manual clitoral stimulation. I'd rank the intensity and desirability of the orgasms produced as manual clitoral stimulation >> oral > PIV (unless I've had several orgasms already, in which case it moves to nearly the top).

It seems like oral sex is so often the focus when people discuss clitoral stimulation.... The spread of what women prefer and what actually causes them to orgasm is incredibly wide and changing. I have my favorites, but even having had sex for many years and with multiple partners, I still sometimes find something new that makes me come!
Posted by Juliet Audobon on November 17, 2011 at 7:16 PM · Report this
I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on this, but as far as I'm concerned it's not just PIV vs oral sex, it's PIV vs oral sex vs manual clitoral stimulation. I'd rank the intensity and desirability of the orgasms produced as manual clitoral stimulation >> oral > PIV (unless I've had several orgasms already, in which case it moves to nearly the top). It seems like oral sex is so often the focus when people discuss clitoral stimulation....

The spread of what women prefer and what actually causes them to orgasm is incredibly wide and changing. I have my favorites, but even having had sex for many years and with multiple partners, there is still sometimes something new that makes me come!
Posted by Juliet Audobon on November 17, 2011 at 7:26 PM · Report this
mydriasis 124

Yeah I'd pick manual over oral any day.
But it's still. PIV>>>>>>>>>>>>manual>>>>>>>>>>>oral in my books. I tend to skip past the latter two if I can.
Posted by mydriasis on November 17, 2011 at 7:28 PM · Report this
@ 8,

I'm guessing it is because she has since had sex with him that was not a "really great experience," like the self-conscious feeling of failing a pop quiz, and she wanted to emphasize she has had fulfilling sex with him.

Also, not everyone has a really great experience with their first time. I know mine was aweful. The guy did not bother to prepare me first, and since I was a virgin, I did not know he needed to. He finished in under three minutes and I was left lying there on my back wondering, "That's it? This is what all the fuss is about? I could live my entire life without having sex again..." BTW, the guy had been with multiple women, so he was not inexperienced.

Thankfully the second guy I was with sexually, my husband, has since shown me what all the fuss is about.
Posted by firsttimecansuck on November 17, 2011 at 8:07 PM · Report this
@ 80 (et al), me neither! I'm not saying the G-spot doesn't exist, but I can say it probably doesn't exist on me. My husband says it does, but I get VERY creeped out by anyone moving their fingers around inside my pussy-it reminds me of the gynecologist!(I'm crossing my legs just typing this). I'm not inexperienced; I just want to stick with my clitoral orgasms (that I can only have thru oral sex, or my myself, on my back, when the anti-depressants are out of my system, lol). I know no one agrees with me, but I didn't hear WTF asking for all of this-or Dan's-advice; all she asked was if there was any research about people like her. Maybe she's actually gay or bi. Maybe she's asexual.
Posted by Elsalover on November 17, 2011 at 8:20 PM · Report this
#29, the G-spot IS part of the clitoris. The clitoris extends up inside a woman - the visible little nub is just the external part, comparable to the head of the penis. The "shaft" runs up inside, and I guess the G-spot is a place where it happens to be reachable through the wall of the vagina.

Guys orgasm through their penises. Some guys need the head stimulated while others have places on the shaft that they prefer. Woman orgasm through their clitorises. Some women like the "head" stimulated while others have places on the "shaft" that they prefer. It's not rocket science.

And by the way, it's not like someone just picked a featureless, random part of the vagina and said "let's give this square inch of flesh a name!" - the g-spot bulges slightly, has a spongy texture, and becomes more pronounced when a woman is aroused. Denying the existence of the G-spot is as ludicrous as denying the existence of the external clitoral structure.

And the gland that stores female ejaculate is called the Skene's Gland, btw.
Posted by perversecowgirl on November 17, 2011 at 8:32 PM · Report this
Hey recognition - can you take a break from grinding that axe and tell us how old you are? Just curious.
Posted by gnot on November 17, 2011 at 8:36 PM · Report this
I thank Ms Driasis for post #100 and her subsequent clarifications, with assists from Ms Erica and Mr Recognition. Up until now, my only comeback to the occasional claims that it was wasteful of me to maintain my perfect K6 was that a) I ought to receive a government stipend for not reproducing (wouldn't everyone here, with the possible exception of Ms Kim, who is too kind for such a thing, agree with that?), and b) giving or even receiving oral always made me cramp.

Now, some reasonable people might think that that would end the discussion. But I have so often found myself still being pitied for having missed out on an experience of Cosmic Splendour that only M>F oral can provide without any conceivable reply. To be reliably informed by such an expert that it is an activity that is never enjoyed by the performer for selfish reasons and is only performed by the ugly, the unfunny and the drippy makes me feel fully armed against the next occurrence of that charge. Perhaps if I send Ms Erica a new vibrator she will refrain from contradicting you.

If it weren't my bedtime, I'd think up some probable example from the lives of the Woolfs and the Bells. Maybe a thought will form overnight.
Posted by vennominon on November 17, 2011 at 8:39 PM · Report this
And since you like a fight...

@88 - Women are accusing other women of lying about multiple orgasms? In real life?
And psych researchers have a habit of finding the results they are looking for. Neurologists, not so much. Hence that peer review thing they've got going.

@95 - the Mayo Clinic is a hell of a lot more reliable than the New York Times. And relying more on newspaper articles than primary research for information speaks poorly of your education (talking about the twin study here, not the Mayo Clinic).

Also @95 - "I don't really think your question is sincere, so I'm not interested in answering it." - then just don't answer it. Sheesh.

@115 - that's why psychotics are so great in bed! Dangerous sure, but amazing in the sack. Definitely try it sometime.
Posted by gnot on November 17, 2011 at 9:00 PM · Report this
As for the idea (mentioned by a few people) of some women not having G-spots...I would tentatively argue that this is unlikely. The G-spot is an actual structure, so I would assume it comes standard on women, just like vaginae or clitorises or nipples do. It's just that some people's G-spots are more sensitive than others.

Some women may get no sexual pleasure out of theirs, others may have multiple orgasms, and still others (like me) may enjoy light and indirect stimulation at times, but find that direct fingering feels like being shanked in the goddamned bladder. But I believe that everyone has one.

(That's how I began to believe in the existence of the G-spot, btw. Long, long ago, when I was a teenager and there was no internet filled with blogging, squirting, G-spot orgasming women, I told my then-bf that I didn't think there was any such thing as a G-spot. He slipped his finger inside me, said "It's right here" and poked a spot that felt ouchy and offputting in a way that no other spot inside my vagina ever has, before or since. I could feel it through my whole midsection, like he'd pushed a pressure point. And he didn't have to rummage around; he beelined right for it. So, yeah. It was suddenly very obvious to me that I have a spot in my vagina that causes intense and very distinctive sensations, and that this spot has a particular shape and/or texture that made it easy to find. Kinda hard to be a G-spot doubter after that.)
Posted by perversecowgirl on November 17, 2011 at 9:16 PM · Report this
mydriasis 132

My highschool boyfriend had a similar aptitude. Big fan. And my understanding of the Gspot is similar to yours.

Ladies: just because it doesn't get you off doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I had a friend who could come from someone playing with her breasts the right way. I find when a guy goes for mine it's like 'Oh, sure... ok" but that doesn't mean I don't have nipples.

Posted by mydriasis on November 17, 2011 at 9:47 PM · Report this
@100 mydriasis,

I don't know what your definition of an intellectual is, but my experience is that showing a full on hardcore intellect is the fastest way to NOT get the girl possible. Being a hardcore science nerd (Biochemistry) in college, I was constantly having to "dumb it down". I was also on a varsity sport, not bad looking, and well traveled. The second I slipped into "I learned the coolest thing in Botany today" mode, pfft gone. Thank God that Nice Eclectic Responsible Dude(s) come in female form as well (and like to experiment in bed too! When I started working at MIT I realized that there were a host of male and female nerds that had never had the chance to be with their kind before...)! To this day our closest friends are mostly science and engineering types.

Posted by Married in MA on November 18, 2011 at 12:21 AM · Report this
@130 re your response to @115: I don't quite agree.
My ex WAS a nutsack psychotic piece of damaged goods who
was more interested in trying to kill me, if not permanently fuck
me up psychologically, than ever caring about satisfying me sexually.

Whatever floats your boat is fine with me, but I'm just saying.
Posted by auntie grizelda on November 18, 2011 at 1:46 AM · Report this
Mr Ven @ 129, since I am quite a fun of oral sex both ways, and since I've had a reasonably good amount of success with it, I'd have to protest both your and mydrasis @ 100 claims above. Oral sex lovers come in all shades and flavors; even though I can see where the correlation mydrasis mentions might come from, this is by no means the only one there is.

Especially since I was originally not really attracted to oral sex, but was convinced that it was a good idea by my first girlfriend, who was very much into it. Cunnilingus was her best way of getting off, and I was surprised by how much could be achieved with it.

Then came my second girlfriend, who was not at all pleased by it, and seemed even surprised I should expect otherwise (cue to me with the nerdiest 'but you're supposed to like that!' face you can imagine). Thank god, she had much more experience than me at the time, so she simply showed me what she liked (PIV sex with lots of groping, some simultaneous clitoral action; her personal touch was the way she clenched her legs around me, actually painful -- I had to bite the blanket during her orgasms so as not to produce painful sounds).

That was some education, and I was forever freed of the idea that there's something all women should like.

Sex is always a little bit of a discovery. There's always something different in the next person; if not their exact preferences, then their reactions to them.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 18, 2011 at 3:53 AM · Report this
@133, my experience, too. Nerdy girls rock! :-) Though I've noticed that there are ways to approach non-nerdy girls, too, that can lead to interesting relationships. Many even non-nerdy girls like literature, something I also always enjoyed, both in its so-called 'higher' (say, Shakespeare) and 'lower' (say, Stephen King) ends; that was usually more efficient than any attempt to discuss Chomsky or structural linguistics.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 18, 2011 at 3:56 AM · Report this
Mr Ank - Please don't associate me with any opinion in the matter; I was just pleased to have discovered an expert witness of such utility.
Posted by vennominon on November 18, 2011 at 5:32 AM · Report this
mydriasis 138

I'm studying neuro and chem, don't worry.
I'm a huge nerd. And I get along quite well with nerdy guys although I typically don't date them.
A pseudointellectual is not the same as an intellectual or even a nerd, all three terms have a different connotation.

To my mind a psuedointellectual is a narcissist who has an overinflated self of his (or her) intelligence and is in love with the idea of him/herself as an intellectual. He/she would rather talk about a book than read it. (Not saying that we shouldn't enjoy discussing books, but you understand what I'm implying)

P.S. I can't tell you how many times I've had guys refer to me as 'scary' smart. What's so scary about intelligence I'll never know. I get bored of hearing it so I'd rather do the shut-up-and-look-pretty trick when I'm in that context.
Posted by mydriasis on November 18, 2011 at 7:44 AM · Report this
@138 mydriasis,

"I can't tell you how many times I've had guys refer to me as 'scary' smart. What's so scary about intelligence I'll never know. I get bored of hearing it so I'd rather do the shut-up-and-look-pretty trick when I'm in that context."

This is NOT a comment upon you, but that is just sad. Along with "being wasteful is good", "being intelligent is scary" is right at the top of why USAers are ruining our country's legacy (I don't like to use American in this case, because that should include anyone in the New World). So, study hard and stay out of debt.

Posted by Married in MA on November 18, 2011 at 8:16 AM · Report this
@135 and others... Of course women will like different acts, different pressures, different attentions to different body parts and so on. Men do too: some like attention to the tip, some the shaft, some need their balls in play, some need their prostate in play, some need to be on top, some need to be on the bottom...the possibilities are endless.

You will rarely find men, however, arguing that parts of their anatomy don't exist or that experiences others have aren't real. A good example of this is prostate play. Sure, you can find men who don't like it and straight men who don't ever want to try it for fear that it may threaten their masculinity, but when you mention prostate play you rarely see straight men insisting with such obvious fear of inadequacy that other straight men who enjoy it are fooling themselves. Or even more crazy, that prostate play is some feminist plot to punish men for patriarchy (see the above post that claims that the G-spot is a myth of straight men who just want to be selfish lovers, ffs! Honey, straight men who are selfish lovers don't give a rat's ass where your G-spot is.)

To me it's beside the point what a given woman does or does not *prefer* to reach orgasm. It's the stubborn and fear-driven insistence that women cannot climax from penetration, do not have G-spots, cannot ejaculate, are these rare birds if they can come multiple times, etc. that I think merits a response. When you hear a person limiting their experiences or knowledge of their own bodies based on fear of inadequacy or failure, you should encourage them to push past those fears, not rest in them.
Posted by maddy811 on November 18, 2011 at 8:17 AM · Report this
@71, you are confusing "pleasure" with "orgasm." You don't have to orgasm from something in order to enjoy it.

Read the letter again: the writer's problem was that vaginal intercourse doesn't feel like *anything* for her. That would put her definitely in a minority.
Posted by Drusilla on November 18, 2011 at 8:20 AM · Report this
My girlfriend cums hard when I'm in her ass and she uses a vibrator. Or with her on top with me simulating anus with my fingers. So in her case her butt is connected to her g spot.

Posted by k.pascoe on November 18, 2011 at 8:32 AM · Report this
I'm kind of surprised that SAXON didn't have some sort of an answer for his buddy. I mean, what's he been doing all this time when he gets BJs?
Posted by blackjack00801 on November 18, 2011 at 10:06 AM · Report this
@140, indeed, quite true, for both men and women. In retrospect, it's even funny to think about why it is that so many people (including my former self) actually at some point buy into the idea that it isn't so. After all, pretty much everything else in life is such that people have all kinds of tastes and differences about it: food, drink, work, hobbies, pets, sports, movies, books, you name it, the fact that one person likes it one way doesn't say much about the next person. De gustibus...

Yet when the topic is sex there still is often this impression that there is 'some specific activity' (usually PIV) that must happen, or else it isn't sex; or then that there is 'some specific activity' (say, cunnilingus) that everybody (say, all women) should like, or else there's something wrong with the woman in question, or the guy just doesn't know what he's doing. As you point out, this goes as far as claiming that women who do (or don't do) certain things (G-spots, squirting, etc.) are 'fooling themselves.' Ah! prescriptivism.

As far as personal efforts go, whenever I'm with a group of men talking about women, I often mention some of the points you raise, like the stupid controversy/prescriptivism concerning G-spots and squirting. Often enough I see agreement, but there indeed are some men who immediately try to explain how is it that 'they really know what's going on and which groups of women are fooling themselves', citing their own experience, etc. I've wondered why this is so. I think it's partially societal views about sex as a 'dangerous thing' (handle with care! in the correct way!), and partially insecurity --
they wished there was something that always works, so if they're good at it they'll always be successful when trying to get a woman off. If one just could find this elusive Fountain of Guaranteed Orgamsms, oh! how much simpler would life be! And people wouldn't judge us, and we wouldn't have to worry about what she really is thinking about us when she says 'it's OK, I enjoyed it anyway,' etc.

And yet I wouldn't want it any other way. Individual differences mean that every new sex partner is a little adventure, different (sexually as in so many other areas) from everybody else I ever slept with, maybe even from everybody else in the world. Ultimately, once you wrap your head around the idea, it's actually more exciting this way.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 18, 2011 at 10:33 AM · Report this
@140, by the way, re-reading your comment, I see you already had developed the same idea I did. Sorry for the repetition!
Posted by ankylosaur on November 18, 2011 at 10:36 AM · Report this
@143 SAXON's story doesn't really hold up: "I recently made friends with a guy [who now sees me as] his best male buddy." So, probably SAXON is asking on his own behalf, and hasn't ever actually had a bj yet. But maybe he has a long-time girlfriend/boyfriend who has always loved to swallow, and so SAXON honestly doesn't know what to say when you don't know the person well.
Posted by EricaP on November 18, 2011 at 10:59 AM · Report this
"It is easier to accuse a woman of frigidity than to try to give her pleasure." -- The character of George Sand in _Children of the Century_

If you replace "frigidity" with vaginal orgasm or multiple orgasm or any of the other mentioned above, the quote gives a good summation of the discussion.
Posted by Crinoline on November 18, 2011 at 11:02 AM · Report this
perverse/mydriasis @131/132 – Women who want to have more fun should keep an open mind about all their body parts, and explore. It's amazing how different the sensations can be depending on where you put pressure, how much pressure you put, and how much stimulation / how many orgasms you've already had that night. I used to find breast play boring, but then I learned that I just need it ramped up to 11. I'm irritated by gentle strokes – but tug hard on my nipples and I melt. My outer-clit also needs a lot of serious sensation (which is why oral doesn't do much – people's tongues aren't capable of delivering as much power as I need). But my g-spot is more sensitive and needs to be approached from one side, and only after I'm already very aroused. Otherwise it feels like being jabbed, as perverse says. Live and learn :-)
Posted by EricaP on November 18, 2011 at 11:22 AM · Report this
mydriasis 149

Nope. They're very extremely sensitive. Gentle is nice but not sexy and more intense just hurts. In fact what a lot of guys consider "gentle" still hurts me with breastplay.
Posted by mydriasis on November 18, 2011 at 12:20 PM · Report this
Confidential to Saxon: "Where do you want me to come" works pretty well, and it's non-assholish, and perhaps hot to the right type of girl.

You can also use "I want to come all over you...!" to which the girl can say "yeah, all over my tits/face/belly" or "noooo!" or "in my mouth!"

But when in doubt, go for the tits.
Posted by fetish on November 18, 2011 at 12:24 PM · Report this
@149 - not telling you what to do. Just talking about what I've learned about my body over the years.
Posted by EricaP on November 18, 2011 at 12:38 PM · Report this
EricaP: for the record, my bf has found a way to touch my G-spot that enhances my orgasms without making me feel too much like I'm going to pee. It's still not something I want every time, though; mostly during the horny week of my cycle.

Ah, there's a variable that I don't think anyone's mentioned here when it comes to enjoyment of different sex acts: where a woman's at hormonally. Right before my period, I'm a rampaging horndog and penetration feels WAY better than usual (sometimes I need penetration to get off - even though my actual orgasms come from external clitoral stimulation). Also, my usual dominant tendencies get magnified and I become all aggressive and bitey. All my female friends have told me they have a horndog week of their cycle, too (usually around their period but sometimes during ovulation) although it affects different women in different ways.
Posted by perversecowgirl on November 18, 2011 at 2:08 PM · Report this
Holmes 153
Some advice to WTF:
Explore. Try everything. And in every combination (sometime G-spots don't wake up until after some oral).

Try everything by yourself. And then try it again with a (communicative) partner. Things could change. Significantly. There is a neurological basis for experiencing the touch of another person in a different way that one does their own. I call your attention to "The Stranger" (not this weekly), as a manifestation of that principle.…

Posted by Holmes on November 18, 2011 at 3:46 PM · Report this
Just like WTF, PIV sex does nothing for me. The only type of sex that makes me orgasm is anal (combined w/ clit touching). On my own, a vibrator or clit touching works. I don't know if my partners have just been incompetent, or if PIV and oral sex just don't do it for me. I'm kind of jealous of all the comments from people with awesome sex lives. What can I try to make sex more worthwhile? How does the girl on top position help? If you're aiming the penis towards the front of the vaginal wall, does that mean you don't take the whole thing in? Readers, are there any recommended sources of information to make sex more pleasurable for a woman?
Posted by TheRiddlerOfSkittles on November 18, 2011 at 7:29 PM · Report this
100- Mydriasis-- I'm catching up here, just reread your comment, and didn't catch the first time how very funny it is. Yes. Pseudointellectual types and oral sex. True, true, politically incorrect, and true. But then, I've run into the sensitive and enlightened convincees who were terrible at oral sex too.

133- Married in MA-- I'd love a definition of nerd. From what I can tell, it means: inclined towards engineering and the sciences, not terrific in the social graces that make one popular in high school, and awkward and shy in bed. Big Bang Theory has capitalized on the stereotypes. I love the show. But it's hard to draw any conclusions about nerds and sexual competence. The logic becomes circular.

138- Mydriasis again-- Here's what scary about intellect. "I'm about to look stupid and become uncomfortable. Those are frightening feelings." Shutting up and looking pretty is a sensible tactic rather than trying to reason with the unreasonable. I mean, how much fun is it to talk to someone who's not understanding? When I'm babysitting, I play kid games. I don't try to talk to them about physics. (Though I have been known to show children mobius strips with their rounded scissors and tape.)
Posted by Crinoline on November 18, 2011 at 9:21 PM · Report this
I like to think of myself as a pretty considerate blowjob receiver. As a younger, less experienced gentleman I used to just reach down and pull my dick out of the lovely young woman's mouth at the "moment of truth" and spunk on my belly unless she expressed an interest in tasting my load. Now that I'm more experienced, confident and mature I'll discuss where to put my seed before it becomes an issue. Also, I'm pretty verbal so it's kinda obvious when I'm going to launch. I'll give the "I'm going to cum" warning pretty early so she can stop should she have other desires/needs that can't wait the 5-10 minutes it takes me to get hard again. Another "Oh! Fuck! This is it Baby!" or "Here comes the gravy!" warning about 0.5 seconds before launch gives a new partner the option of bailing out. Luckily, my last few partners have been greedy little swallowers, because that's just fucking hot!
Posted by efk on November 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM · Report this
@152 A possibility for gal on top...

Move in forward/back circular motion--I guess it would be in an elliptical shape (ooh, I should get nerd cred for that)--with the ride "up" on the back part of the circle, down on the forward, kegeling up ("squeezing" inward) on the way "up" and back, kegeling down (pushing down) on the way forward and back down. This would be pretty slow, obviously, since you're doing so much...

Myself, I tend to move slower on the up motion just cuz I have a blast torturing both myself and the guy. If he's not too distracted, have him rub your clit in the process.

Posted by maddy811 on November 18, 2011 at 9:50 PM · Report this
@157: No, that would be e-hip-tical. Oral sex would be elliptical.
Posted by avast2006 on November 18, 2011 at 11:33 PM · Report this
@138: There are two basic angles on "scary smart":

a) a colloquial (if a bit inaccurate) way to say astonishingly, preternaturally smart; usually said as a form of admiration.
b) someone perceiving themselves as of comparatively lower intelligence in an interaction, feeling insecure, and not wishing to be condescended to or otherwise made to look foolish (not that scary smart people _ever_ behave that way towards lesser mortals, no ma'am...); usually said in anything from grudging admiration to hostility.
Posted by avast2006 on November 18, 2011 at 11:59 PM · Report this
@138, 155: I think the problem with intellect is not so much with intellect as with how important said intellect is to its possessor. If s/he defines his/her soul as 'one who has intellect', then the threat of losing that (oh so important) part of oneself has important consequences for sexual behavior. It's a bit like those who need to be in control: they either can't let go of it or, if they do, they're suddenly afraid like children.

Unless you want to antagonize, adjusting yourself to the person you're with is indeed polite and keeps things peaceful. And it can be by itself interesting. I've had quite interesting and intense, albeit not intellectually challenging, conversations with 5-year-olds, or with illiterate gold miners in the Amazon. They're just as good, in their own way, as thought-provoking dialogues about Bell's experiment or Einstein's cosmological constant.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 19, 2011 at 6:12 AM · Report this
mydriasis 161
@Married in MA

Do you see what you did? You tricked me into "outing" myself and now I'm super uncomfortable. :p

I gotcha. But when you see people use "scary" which has both connotations rather than any of the other words which only have the first connotation it starts to concern you. Plus there's the cliche that men are intimidated by intelligence. The idea that anyone could be intimidated by me kind of annoys me.


I think that's generally true. I don't personally define myself that way (I probably would have been better off not even admitting it, at all actually) but I don't judge people who do.

I don't think we really spend a lot of time consciously choosing what we're defined by. Up until several years ago I defined myself that way too - that's what happens when for as far back as you can remember everyone reacts most to that part of you. I mean, if ALL you ever hear about yourself growing up is that you're intelligent. Well, that sticks with you. If you spend a good chunk of your life with other people deciding that's your identity, it's not always natural to define yourself by qualities no one ever thought to notice.

This wasn't entirely the case with me, but still. I think with males it's especially bad.

Adjusting yourself is great and I do it all the time - this is another reason I'm lucky to be female since I find a lot of guys don't do this so well - BUT when you are doing it day in and day out it starts to become habit.

I wonder sometimes if I'm able to come off at my actual intelligence level since I'm so trained at dumbing myself down. I actually don't even notice when I'm doing it sometimes. Oh well.
Posted by mydriasis on November 19, 2011 at 6:48 AM · Report this

I would define nerd Vs intellectual as being primarily a degree of focus. Secondarily, intellectual tends to be associated with the humanities. I don't think the terms are mutually exclusive. SO, I think there could be poetry nerds, for example. It doesn't mean intellectuals lack focus, just that a nerd is highly focused, usually on a single area or topic. And thus arises the likely source of nerd stereotype: everything outside of their focus loses importance, including personal appearance and, sometimes, human interactions. I would also, as someone labelled a nerd due to my interest in Science, like to consider an intellectual as someone devoted to consideration, contemplation, and integration of information. While I am relatively deficient in knowledge of literature, I would argue that the breadth of knowledge encompassed by Science and Engineering (and to a lesser extent history and political science) and my (at times) dapper wardrobe should qualify me as an intellectual. The sum and total of human knowledge is wonderfully diverse, and pissing wars about what knowledge is "better" is at best a waste of time.

Going to the "smart is scary" meme brings us to Nebishy Excluded Reviled Drudges that most of US society likes to attack in youth and to later pay large sums of money to to enhance their lives. It is pitiful to observe the extent of conformity that our so called free society enforces upon the people that truly wish to be free in thought, word, and deed. As an intellectual I welcome new and different points of view and information, even if to ultimately reject them as incorrect, because ignorance is truly the most dangerous state to maintain. And so therefor goes intolerance, protector of the mean, damner of the possible. And, as a formerly bullied nerd, I fucking hate that with a passion. I want to be the person I want to be, and I demand the same for my family, friends, and community. Besides, smart is sexy;-)

Posted by Married in MA on November 19, 2011 at 7:40 AM · Report this
@79 late to the party, but I had to agree with you on working the spot using your middle finger. It might be initially easier to find with the index finger, but you don't get the leverage and control in the g-spot region.

Bonus tip: using your middle finger means you can reach up with your thumb and work her clit while you rub the g-spot. Just be careful of hand cramps, especially when she's in the throes of passion and refuses to let you stop :)
Posted by briavael on November 19, 2011 at 8:10 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 164
Comment 1 (of 4), split so that the message doesn't get lost in a sea of TL;DR:

I just reread WTF's letter and have to focus on the two defining parts of it, namely that she's not feeling what makes PIV the "gold standard" of sex and, precisely because she's not feeling it, her conclusion that she must be "malformed" and has an obligation to inform her future partners of her presumably non-reacting vagina.

My heart cries out for WTF and her lack of education, too much of it from deliberate prejudice and prolonged societal ignorance.

Then, in an illogical counter to her experience so far, WTF is surrounded by messages of how amazing PIV is, these messages usually embedded in romance novels and traditional Hollywood films. Or, worse, an integral component of most porn where, when a guy whips it out, a woman is already thrashing about on the bed, awaiting the ultimate sexual act.

WTF, as others have pointed out, your body already works. It gives you pleasure and you are experiencing orgasms, via your clitoris, the ONLY organ in the human body whose sole purpose is sexual pleasure.

Please reject out loud any criticism you may receive (aloud or implied) from your partners, in the form of "My last girlfriend didn't need all this extra stuff. What's wrong with you?" or "Why is it taking you so long? My last partner...." And faking an orgasm is not your friend (nor educational for your partner and his misconceptions).

You may want to turn a deaf ear also to those who believe they are empowering you with the manifesto that Every woman can learn to experience ... ejaculation, g-spot orgasms, vaginal orgasms, multiple orgasms, etc. But that's not empowering, that's only putting pressure on you to conform to someone else's agenda. Anorgasmic women are now called "pre-orgasmic" as if an orgasm is inevitable. Me, I still call it pressure.

Right now, YOU are the ONLY expert on YOUR own body. Do you know everything about it? No, of course not. But that doesn't stop you from progressing past your first belt (as in martial arts), learning and training until you achieve the next belt up.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on November 19, 2011 at 11:11 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 165
Comment 2 (of 4):

There are new and amazing books published each year about sexuality because of what scientists are constantly discovering. Don't look at these online. You need to get yourself over to a real, large bookstore with many books on sex (even if it's in another town or city). Flip through the covers. Intuit what message the books are conveying. If you don't feel ready to buy or simply feel overwhelmed by all of the knowledge surrounding you, then jot down the names of several most recently published authors and titles and, when you get home, look them up online. When you've decided, then order them online, if that's easier. One of my fave authors is Lou Paget, a sex educator who has written many factual books aimed at both men and women with the goal of making sex good, fun, and exciting for both.

[OTOH, I simply have to give this example of a bad book. Many (too many) decades ago when I was still a stranger to partnered sex, I read what was considered to be THE (very shocking) manual of oral sex (aimed at both men and women). For men performing oral sex on women, they were advised they'd have to do it for a very long time and to be prepared for that exhausting eventuality. What was that very long time? Five! Whole! Minutes! Can you believe what a woman who read that passage would think if she was unable to reach orgasm unless it was in 10-25-45 minutes? Or, worse, not at all? That there was something wrong with her.]

WTF, beyond getting a few good books, invest in a couple of dildoes. They shouldn't be porn-star or even necessarily human sized, but one of them should be labelled for stimulating your g-spot. It'll be curved. Get relaxed, have one or two of your regular, clitoral orgasms and then begin to explore. Try different body positions, angles and pressure. If you don't feel anything at first, that may be because of the unfamiliarity factor. Concentrate on just inside the opening to your vagina. Or squeeze your kegel muscles around the object inside of you. That's something that you can do with a partner and it's fun to have that kind of non-threatening control over a penis. See how the kegels make you feel. Have a clitoral orgasm while the dildo is inside you.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on November 19, 2011 at 11:20 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 166
Comment 3 (of 4):

Of course, practising with a dildo is fun and educational, but you won't really know what works or not unless you try it with a partner and his penis. There are so many dizzying positions for PIV, they make me dizzy! AFAIC, the best site for PIV positions is where you'll find CG moving images of couples. My two particular faves are "deck chair" and "folded deck chair". ::gets distracted with a dreamy look on face:: Uh ... where was I? Oh, yes. I'm sure you'll be surprised and delighted to experiment to see whether different positions provide you with more stimulation during PIV. Some positions are terrific for lazy, languid sex, others get a lot more vigorous and forceful (one body slapping against the other, always a fun sound).

Many women report that one partner's penis satisfies them while another does not. That can be due to the difference in sizes and shapes. Of course, if you like/love a particular partner, you'll have no control over the size and shape of his penis, so it's invaluable to try many different positions to see if your equipment + his equipment + position XYZ = wow factor.

Another source of pleasure may be the anus, surrounded by many sensitive nerve endings. Stimulate it with a finger, toy or penis to see if that provides you with more pleasure while connected. For some women, anal sex is one way they do derive stimulation of their g-spots. Or try double penetration (dildo in one, penis in the other) for a fuller experience.

There is also anecdotal (I'll definitely vouch for it!) if not scientific evidence that the network of sexual nerves and pathways expands and becomes more enriched and sensitive the older a woman gets. So, what you may not have now may be possible in time.

However, let's say that the years have gone by. You've done your personal homework, tried many different positions or even different partners. But still that goal of a vaginal orgasm (or just vaginal comfort and a good overall feeling) eludes you. If it does, then that's the way it is for you in particular. However, as you've already demonstrated, you've been having pleasure from delightful clitoral orgasms all these years. Have you explored them fully? How many can you have in a row (unless you're too sore)? In one day (until you fall asleep from exhaustion)? Or can you have a more explosive one with the practice of edging (where you get close but then ease off, several times), with the intent of building to a more shattering, explosive orgasm. Of course, your body may become pissed at you and send you a don't-do-that-again message by leaving you with a piddling, insignificant orgasm. Still, you won't know unless you try-try-try.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on November 19, 2011 at 11:25 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 167
Comment 4 (of 4):

It's too bad that the straight community never had the equivalent of a hanky code to indicate immediately what their fave sexual activities are. So that means that people have to actually communicate with each other. Or draft a Venn diagram where – one hopes – the area of overlapping activities will leave both satisfied, while they can engage generously (be GGG) in giving and receiving of the other activities.

Who knows, WTF. You may also find a someone (or several someones) for whom PIV is not the most important or frequent activity. Whether you do or not, that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy the emotional and physical connection of your bodies, him deep within you, even if all you both do is laugh between thrusts. Just remember, as others have indicated above, what works for one man or one woman is not a blueprint of what will or should work for all. Each person – each body – will be a learning opportunity and experience.

I wish you much happiness and joy in further exploration of your amazing and unique body. Do not allow anybody to tell you that you don't have the right to experience pleasure at your own pace and control.

One final thought: WTF may have written in to Dan deliberately, because – at least from a gay man with no personal interest in straight sexuality – she hoped she would not get a female-parts-were-made-by-God-to-fit-perfectly-with-male-parts message (gee, where have I heard that one before ::rolls eyes::) or, "If it's good for a man, then it must automatically be good for a woman" response.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on November 19, 2011 at 11:28 AM · Report this

You sound so bubbly.
Posted by Hunter78 on November 19, 2011 at 1:30 PM · Report this
Ms Driasis - Now I'm getting a sort of fictional vision of you and someone of comparable intelligence both dumbing yourselves down, each trying to suit an estimate of the other, only I can't decide whether it just goes down one level and then stops or whether it spirals until you actually both find it sticks and lose intelligence. My compliments for something intriguing.
Posted by vennominon on November 19, 2011 at 3:38 PM · Report this
Ms Helenka - I applaud your conclusion.
Posted by vennominon on November 19, 2011 at 3:41 PM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 171
@170 (vennominon)

I decided to stay in and write that ... whole bunch of words instead of going out and enjoying a rare bit of sunshine.

Thank you for that applause.
::takes a bow::
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on November 19, 2011 at 6:47 PM · Report this
@mydriasis, I have also for quite a while identified myself by my smarts -- I was best student in my highschool, got first place in the university admittance exam, was first selected for a Ph.D. program, etc. etc. etc. For quite a while it seemed to me that the only way I was going to be able to relate to people was via my smarts; that the only reason why anyone would ever like, perchance love, me was because I was smart.

As if I hated everything else about me, except how good I was at learning things. And what could be nerdier than that? :-)

After a while, and with the help of other people (among which several very important women), this changed. A strange story in itself.

I agree most men are not as good at adjusting to a situation as most women. But I'll say this is what they're told to do, too. You have to be dominant, to be the leader, to show strength. You don't do that by deferring to others. If you do in an obvious way, you sound like a brown-noser. Brown-noser, pussy-whipped, touchy-feely type... bad words used for men that do adjust themselves to their conversation partners, ahn?

Maybe at some point more men will learn to dance the dance of the other without insisting so much on the self. Weirdest things have happened. :-)

If you feel you're dumbing yourself down too often, though -- that you sometimes don't even realize when it's happening... then that would be sad. Hopefully you don't feel that way here? SLOG is not bad on intelligent women, I hope?

One's inner star should shine for oneself, not for the effects (good or bad) on others.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 20, 2011 at 7:10 AM · Report this
@167 (Helenka), as a man who isn't all that into PIV sex (it's at the bottom of my list of pleasant activities, and I usually engage in it at the behest of my female partner), I'd like to confirm the idea that there are guys out there who aren't so much into PIV. Maybe finding someone like this will be better for the LW.

But I do hear in her letter a certain concern for things she might be missing out on -- and it is true that getting to know more about her body might make her see orgasmic possibilities that had hitherto remained closed. Both paths remain open.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 20, 2011 at 7:18 AM · Report this
Mr Ven, your idea based on mydriasis' comment sounds like a good script for a romantic comedy. Who would you cast in the main roles, and how would you direct the scene in which each pretends to be less smart than s/he is because of the (false) impression that the other is less smart than s/he is? :-) (I was thinking maybe a younger Hugh Grant and Keira Knightley?)
Posted by ankylosaur on November 20, 2011 at 7:27 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 175
@173 (ankylosaur)

Oh, I don't doubt that there are men and women who both don't particularly believe that PIV is (or should be) the ultimate expression of their sexual union. And it feels good to reveal another secret, that people may engage in PIV but neither has an orgasm from/during it. It's just fun (I know, I keep insisting that sex BE fun and that's my agenda!) to have as a part of one's sexual repertoire.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on November 20, 2011 at 11:17 AM · Report this
@118: You sound like you know what you want.
Posted by auntie grizelda on November 20, 2011 at 1:29 PM · Report this
@175(Helenka), I totally agree. Many of the women I've been with told me (and some of the women here agreed) that they don't have orgasms from penetration but that it feels good to do it (sometimes it doesn't feel like 'sex' has happened if this item hasn't been checked on the clipboard).

I firmly believe sex should be fun; I tend to agree with Svutlana on that, it should be on everybody's agenda. The Western culture tries to make it way too serious -- be it as a health concern, as a Big Important Topic That Defines Your Life, or as the deepest expression of being human, .... (to say nothing of the negative attitudes to it, alas! that see it as Satan's biggest trick to turn us away from virtue, etc.). I hope that, as sex normalizes in our society, this will be less and less often the case.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 20, 2011 at 3:20 PM · Report this
@118, not insensitive, just a little slow sometimes. :-)
Posted by ankylosaur on November 20, 2011 at 3:21 PM · Report this
@178: Touche! :-)
Posted by auntie grizelda on November 20, 2011 at 11:26 PM · Report this
@133 I think it's a shame when that happens. I've always been attracted to intelligence and was considered quite the geek in high school. I was near the top of my class, but due to various outside issues, never able to finish college.

It's been my experience that there are two types of smart men. The kind that want to share their knowledge, and the kind that want to lord it over you as a way of being "better". I've always loved to learn new things, and I'll admit to being somewhat intimidated when someone is so knowledgeable on a subject that it makes me feel as though I know nothing. But depending on which type of intellectual you're dealing with it can either be an amazing or horrible experience.
Every time I speak to someone with a high intelligence that likes to share their knowledge, I expect them to take into account my limited expertise on the topic (just as I would when explaining something to someone else), but not to "dumb themselves down". If you're dealing with people who are intelligent, but not necessarily knowledgeable, you can share that knowledge. Perhaps if you're dealing with a moron that's not an option, but I try not to date those.
Posted by KateRose on November 21, 2011 at 6:47 AM · Report this
to WTF: try anal.
Posted by Delizione on November 21, 2011 at 7:01 AM · Report this
Re: The intelligence and nerdiness discussion--

So many false dichotomies in our society. I was taught from an early age that I could be smart or beautiful, and I didn't want to be beautiful because that meant I had to be shallow and giggly and only care about new clothes and gossip. It took me a long time in my adult life to reject that message.

There's also this idea that one can be intellectual or emotional. (Look at all the body-or-mind or spirit-versus-the flesh religious poetry going back centuries. The moral was always that after a struggle, the spiritual won out and it was worth it.) From there, it's not a great leap to decide that a smart guy can't be emotional and therefore can't be receptive and responsive sexually. If we grew up in this culture, we're somehow pre-programmed to believe that the smart nerdy guy CAN'T be any good in bed. If he were, he wouldn't be smart and nerdy. The converse is just as untrue and harmful. That's the stereotype of the dumb jock, the fantastic lay, who must be an idiot by virtue of the fact that women like to sleep with him.

Posted by Crinoline on November 21, 2011 at 7:14 AM · Report this
@182, indeed. I'd only add that some people do cultivate such images, they identify with them -- they buy into the dumb-jock-as-fantastic-lay idea and live it.

Which is why it's more of a personality trait to me than real possession of knowledge. I've seen people who were rather proud of arrogant about knowledge that was, all in all, rather limited, while other much more knowledgeable people aroudn them were actually open and 'nicer'. Looks like people choose the roles they like to play, and adapt accordingly -- be it by pretending they have more knowledge than they do, or less.
Posted by ankylosaur on November 21, 2011 at 8:34 AM · Report this
Mr Ank - Phoebe Nicholls (based on her Cordelia Flyte) and a Rupert of one's preference. But I can't think about how it would go or the idea will dig in too deeply and force me to work it out completely.
Posted by vennominon on November 21, 2011 at 9:18 AM · Report this
My S.O. and I have a simple way of communicating: Any negative statement means the exact opposite. Such as, "Please don't whip me!" or "You'd better not tie me up!" (the spitfire attitude justifies the bondage. We also sketch out the scene in advance, such as, "The Maid has been very slovenly--better get on her case,"
Posted by CynDyTV4Bd on November 21, 2011 at 10:32 AM · Report this
@25: You're lucky.
Posted by auntie grizelda on November 21, 2011 at 12:20 PM · Report this
I'm a straight dude. I get kinda envious of women's intense orgasms (G-spot, etc). Don't get me wrong, I love having sex and orgasms.... but women seem to have "better" more intense orgasms. I guess I have vagina envy.
Posted by Hooff on November 21, 2011 at 1:22 PM · Report this
ALWAYS Clear Your Cache!!! 188

Right before my period, I'm a rampaging horndog and penetration feels WAY better than usual (sometimes I need penetration to get off - even though my actual orgasms come from external clitoral stimulation). Also, my usual dominant tendencies get magnified and I become all aggressive and bitey.

Me too! I've noticed it more now that I'm in my mid 30s. It never ceases to amaze me how animalistic I become then.
Posted by ALWAYS Clear Your Cache!!! on November 21, 2011 at 2:12 PM · Report this
I've never heard a guy say, "She's too smart." And I've never heard "dumbness" listed among desirable qualities for women.

Otoh, a lot of guys like their women "girly", which implies what?-- cute, superficial, deferential?

And what do most women want in their men-- smart, confident, better earner?
Posted by Hunter78 on November 21, 2011 at 2:39 PM · Report this
...and some people know they're only operating at 300BAUD but perch on the "edge of glory" as it were - able to see to the other side without really being able to participate. We like discussing the ideas more than reading them because we quickly get swamped and look for context to help figure it out as best as we can comprehend. I can get happily lost contemplating the Sapier-Whorf discussions and nothing would be more "intellectually orgasmic" than to discuss it with someone who really knew the topic and could give voice to thoughts I've only half-thunk... but they're often convinced early on that I'm a poseur and not worth talking to.


Be kind to numbskulls - we can't pick our IQ. If we're clutzy as we segue into the topic we're eager to discuss with you Great Minds, can you have a heart and humor us?

And why are most of the most brilliant minds I know so eager to distance themselves with drugs? I'd kill for the brain cells they negligently slaughter.

Guess the grass is always greener.

Posted by ItsMyParty on November 21, 2011 at 7:46 PM · Report this
mydriasis 191

Me neither, but I've heard rumours. *shrug*
As for what women want - fuck if I know. I think those things are on there, probably along with well dressed.

I tend to dislike most of the things most women like in a man.
Posted by mydriasis on November 21, 2011 at 8:47 PM · Report this
For the 24 Year Old Straight Girl- I am 19 and I am the same way. I have found that lots of four play with a vibrator is great. ( so you can get your kicks in before he does) And vibrating cock rings are gods gift to women!! It turns his dick into a dildo I swear!! As for the when should you tell him thing...FAKE IT!! Im sorry but boys get their feelings hurt too much if you tell them that they cant make you cum.
Hope this helps.
Posted by RashelleCullum on November 21, 2011 at 11:21 PM · Report this
189-- What is girly?

At its best, the stereotype for women is that they're sympathetic, good listeners, good in the arts, good communicators, nicely groomed.

At its worst, the stereotype for women is that they're shallow, dumb, overly concerned with appearance such as to notice hair, make-up and clothes, terrible in the maths and sciences, unassertive to the point of being doormats, hysterical in a crisis, talkative and silly.

When a man says he likes a woman to be "girly," let's hope he means the former list.

At its best, the stereotype for men is that they're able to keep calm in a crisis in order to take the best action, excellent in the maths and sciences, intelligent, strong, confident.

At its worst, the stereotype for men is that they're insensitive, crude, only interested in sports and fart jokes.

Let's hope that women are primarily interested in the former list for men.

But let's face it, there's enough variability in what attracts any of us, and there's enough overlap between all of the lists, as to cause confusion in what anyone is looking for.
Posted by Crinoline on November 22, 2011 at 7:17 AM · Report this
@192 - "Four play" with a vibrator - is that Freudian spelling?
Posted by vennominon on November 22, 2011 at 7:19 AM · Report this
ALWAYS Clear Your Cache!!! 195
@192 You suck as a troll.

OK. I'll need to get some more experience and read before you purport to give "advice."
Posted by ALWAYS Clear Your Cache!!! on November 22, 2011 at 9:56 AM · Report this
Please stop featuring your assistant. It's tantamount to Ms. Cleo just bringing in her next door neighbor to show that anyone can do what she does. Not only is it insulting to your listeners, but it's depriving us of what we tune in for in the first place... You.
Knock it off. She's great to you, but obnoxious to many of the rest of us.
Posted by ky8306le on November 22, 2011 at 10:37 AM · Report this
Please stop featuring your assistant. It's tantamount to Ms. Cleo featuring a beloved neighbor to ply in her trade. It's obnoxious to the fans and belittles what is being done by showing that any old person off the street can do it.
As much as you may love your assistant, she is less beloved by your fans. More Dan! Less well...NO, Lucy.
Dump the bitch already
Posted by ky8306le on November 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM · Report this
For the BDSM couple..."Fet Life" is a great place to learn..It's members are intelligent..professionals who may offer to mentor you both...Savage D's advice was a starting point and I appreciate the courtesy shown to the lifestyle...
Posted by Little46 on January 22, 2012 at 8:49 AM · Report this

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