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June 25, 2009

I am a fairly successful man. I don't make bank like Wall Streeters back in the day, but I haven't been hungry since college. My girlfriend is younger. We met when she was in grad school. Like many recent grads, she's not steadily employed, in debt, and driving an unsafe car. So I support her, house her, feed her, and pay her bills (medical, etc.). She needed to pay off her credit-card debt—28 percent interest rate!—so she took work stripping and later as an escort. Through escorting she was able to pay off her credit-card debt in a month.

Now some guys would find this distressing, but I found it kind of hot. Here's the thing: After she paid off her credit-card debt, she stopped escorting. I'd like her to continue part-time until she finds a career. She's mixed on this. We would like to buy a house and make things more permanent, but our income isn't enough to do that if she's making waitress wages. I guess it boils down to this: I would prefer to be with a sex worker than a waitress. I'd rather she make $200/hour on her back than $10/hour on her feet. She says she has issues with sex work. What do you think?

Perhaps I'm Mildly Perverted

I don't think it's up to me, PIMP, or you. And I would hope that your girlfriend, who's financially dependent on you at the moment, doesn't return to sex work because she feels coerced.

But I can certainly appreciate your point of view. There are men out there who're turned on by the idea of their girlfriends/wives having sex with other men; some men are turned on by the idea of their girlfriends/wives being paid for sex. You're clearly one of those guys. And you're within your rights to share this information with your girlfriend and to try to convince her to return to sex work. Because your fantasies of sex work—of her doing sex work—turn you on. And, again, that's fine. But you could make a more convincing case, PIMP, if you were better acquainted with the realities of sex work.

You should start sucking off strange men for money.

You'll have to service men, I'm afraid—while lots of men fantasize about being paid to have sex with women, there's a fatal supply-and-demand problem. Simply put: There are just too many men out there willing to give it away for free. That created a glut on the supply side, which has distorted the market, as there's more than enough free straight cock out there to meet the needs of straight women.

So you'll be giving head to dudes, PIMP. And after you've choked down a few hundred loads, you can go back to the girlfriend and say, "Sex work isn't so bad!" with some credibility. And if you keep doing sex work after you've sucked off scores of men you're not attracted to—men who may or may not have treated you with respect, men who may have very different standards of personal hygiene than you do—that might convince your girlfriend to continue to pursue sex work for your amusement.

Good luck.


Hello! I have been in a relationship with my boyfriend for about a year and a half. It is amazing! We are both very GGG, and it is by far the best sexual relationship I have ever had. But there is one thing that has been bugging me, and it's the only thing I feel like I can't share with him. My boyfriend really enjoys tossing my salad. I enjoy it! We love it! Here's the problem: He kisses me when he is done.

Now I am not one of these people who is grossed out about sex-related things. I love it messy and sloppy. If he kisses me after eating my pussy, I'm fine with that. But kissing me after he eats my ass? I hate it! It tastes awful! It ruins the rest of the sex for me! I've heard the old "Well, imagine what it tastes like for him" adage, but he really does enjoy it, and I do, too... just not the kissing after. I'm not sure what to do about this. I am afraid that telling him would offend him and that he will stop doing it. (I do like having my salad tossed!) Am I being selfish? Should I tell him? Suck it up?

Bad Taste In My Mouth

One never permits one's boyfriend—or one's youth pastor or one's president—to place his tongue in one's butt if it isn't clean and fresh. Because when one allows one's boyfriend to stick his tongue in one's butt, BTIMM, one is vouching for the edibility of one's ass. When one consents to having one's salad tossed—are people referring to anilingus in that way again?—one is saying to one's partner, "My ass is clean enough for your mouth. Have at it."

It is entirely reasonable for one's boyfriend—or one's youth pastor or one's president—to assume that if one's butt is clean enough to receive his tongue, his tongue is clean enough, post-salad-tossing, to be received in the mouth of the person whose salad he has just tossed.

So are you are being selfish? Perhaps you are. But we are, each of us, allowed a hang-up or two. You should inform the boyfriend that you're not into kissing after anal-oral contact. But you must present this news to him as your problem, not his, as a hang-up of yours. If he likes you well enough, and enjoys eating your ass as much as he seems to, he may be willing to take a few extra steps—mouthwash on the nightstand? A quick swipe with a warm washcloth?—to accommodate your squeamishness.


What is the proper condom etiquette for threesomes? In my case, I'm a guy and it would be with two girls. Do I change condoms when I go from one girl to the other? It seems like that would be a hassle. It'd kill the spontaneity.

No Clever Acronym

First, a general point: Spontaneity is overrated. The best sex often requires advance planning; the more people involved, or props involved, the more planning required. Although threesomes, for example, can sometimes "just happen" (often when three young people "just happen" to get drunk), most threesomes require some advance planning (particularly when adults want to have them). Finding the third, vetting the third, establishing the ground rules, talking about safety, etc.—all of that requires advance planning.

On to your specific question, NCA: You are going to have to change condoms when you hop from one girl to the other. Unless, of course, you're a total asshole and you only care about protecting your own health and you don't give a shit about exposing Girl A to any sexually transmitted infections that Girl B might have or vice versa. Neither girl should sleep with you if you refuse to swap out condoms, and you should remind yourself that, just as Paris was worth the hassle of a mass, realizing the number-one straight-male fantasy of all time is worth the hassle of swapping out condoms.

But you do have another option: the female condom. It's a condom that she wears. I've used them—with dudes—and once you get past the slightly creepy trash-can-liner aspect of using them, they work fine. Stuff one in each girl, and you'll be able hop back and forth to your heart's content without pausing to change condoms. There's more info about the female condom at www.femalehealth.com.


mail@savagelove.net

 

Comments (125) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
Final Jeopardy question: Can one ever *truly* be sure that one's back door is actually clean? I mean, ya can't see back there and there are creases. Lots of 'em. Poo can hide.
Posted by No idea how you gay guys do it on June 23, 2009 at 8:20 PM · Report this
Irena 2
That advice you gave to PIMP was so good I need a cigarette after reading it.
Posted by Irena on June 23, 2009 at 8:23 PM · Report this
3
I have a problem with the answer to PIMP, since it seems to presume that escorting for women is the heterosexual male equivalent of swallowing cum from hundreds of men—meaning that escorting is like being abused. It's a stupid analogy, and surprisingly puritanical for this column.

Posted by clembot on June 23, 2009 at 8:45 PM · Report this
4
PIMP- What did this girl major in while in college? I know the economy's bad and all, but I bet she has other skills besides waitressing and escorting, especially if she has a master's degree! If she's not comfortable with the escorting, you should be more supportive in helping her find a better career.
Posted by ks on June 23, 2009 at 8:48 PM · Report this
Griffin 5
I agree with Dan's endorsement in letter 3. Female condoms are awesome, especially if you're latex sensitive (like me) and your partner has a large penis (like my husband).
Posted by Griffin on June 23, 2009 at 9:05 PM · Report this
6
Suggesting that someone suck off many strange men (and swallow, to boot!) may be many things, clembot, but "puritanical" is certainly not one of them.
Posted by nsjordan on June 23, 2009 at 9:06 PM · Report this
7
Dan's advice is a little easy on NCA, while I definitely would have driven home the "changing condoms is not optional" point, I also would have reminded him that just because he's the only guy in the mix doesn't necessarily entitle him to be the center of attention. Depending on what his female partners want, he may not even get the opportunity switch.

Measured expectations, NCA. Measured expectations.
Posted by turgenev on June 23, 2009 at 9:28 PM · Report this
Allyson 8
Dan, your reply to PIMP was genius! Still ROTFLMAO! (This is why I no longer read Savage Love at work--too risky.)
On a more serious note, regarding PIMP, I second the advice from #4: the economy is tough, but if she is truly uncomfortable with sex work she is better off waitressing or something instead. If you cannot handle that, PIMP, perhaps you and your girlfriend have a values clash that cannot be overcome...
Posted by Allyson on June 23, 2009 at 9:30 PM · Report this
9
In the PIMP letter, everybody should ask the question, what does "mixed" mean? She has "mixed" emotions about escorting. That really isn't the same as being uncomfortable, which is by definition a constant, though mild, bad feeling. Being "mixed" implies ambivalence, that she sees pros and cons in the job. We are given no other information about why she is "mixed". Perhaps the original email is longer and explains that better, but we have nothing else to go on from here. And surely, if there were some terrible cause for her feeling "mixed" shouldn't that have been included somewhere in the letter?

Perhaps the negatives that make her feel "mixed" are the hours, customers that she doesn't like personally, her employer, or that society looks down on the job—complaints that could be applied to many other jobs that you wouldn't compare to cum swallowing. In fact, Dan is only adding to the shaming of the job with his comparison.

However, I wonder how anybody could feel "mixed" about a job that involved something terrible or traumatic. That doesn't make much sense. If your job involves one horrible reality that is a constant part of the job, I don't believe you would feel "mixed".

Mixed also suggests that she sees positives in the job, and obviously no straight male could see anything positive about swallowing a lot of cum. Which is why Dan's analogy is so much less incisive than what I have come to expect from this column.
Posted by clembot on June 23, 2009 at 10:16 PM · Report this
10
Eating ass is a great way to learn more about the fecal-oral route of disease transmission, firsthand. Kissing someone with a mouth just used on an anus is a great way to give that person diseases as well, even though the bacteria comes from another part of their own body.

Remember: by weight, the majority of poo is bacteria. Even though some of it is dead, much of it is alive, and some of that quantity is disease-causing. Consider Saran Wrap, OK? Because "vouching" that your ass is clean does not necessarily mean much. A good shower is a great step towards cleanliness, but as a public health professional, my considered opinion is that this is probably not sufficient.
Posted by Sophia on June 23, 2009 at 10:24 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 11
Please someone prove me wrong in my statement (without using anecdotal stories):

Women are MUCH less sexually liberated than men.

Why would anyone have a threesome without knowing the third's sexual disease prevalence? Are threesomes that random? If so, shit, I need to get out more...
Posted by Urgutha Forka on June 23, 2009 at 10:28 PM · Report this
Irena 12
"Mixed" was his term, not hers, fucknut. Obviously she wasn't too keen on it or she'd keep doing it for that kind of money, wouldn't she? Bottom line, it's not his decision, and he truly is a pimp if he thinks it is. He should get out there and hustle his ass if he's so hungry for extra cash.
Posted by Irena on June 23, 2009 at 10:42 PM · Report this
13
^
clembot...
I think you hit (very thoughtfully) the nail on the head with that one. Perhaps he was fearing a female backlash, because he also stated "But I can certainly appreciate your point of view"
so, the response zigzaged a bit actually.
I dont think escorts HAVE to do anything they dont want to actually... I mean, I"m sure their are all different types up for all different folks... and in any job, them more shit you are willing to take, the more people give you,,, the less you take, the less you usually are given... but thats beside the point.
good response... he answer wasnt too pro....
its a knee jerk reaction to slander this guy... and perhaps he need a bit of a wake up call...? perhaps?
Posted by eatmoreass on June 23, 2009 at 10:45 PM · Report this
14
oh... and as far as eating ass goes...
I've eaten a lot of ass w all my gfs and I dont know about this breath or mouth tasting bad afterwards... ? The ass I ate, just 'tasted' like 'flesh' or 'body' more or less... not a lot of 'shit' really.... if the person is clean then eating ass is not really dirty. I mean... ok, sure, its a bit dirty... I agree... but I NEVER EVER, came up from down there... with anything smelly... maybe its just the girls I date... beautiful asian girls with assholes that taste like flowers.... maybe I'm just lucky that way
Posted by eatmoreass on June 23, 2009 at 11:05 PM · Report this
15
Sophia, as a public health professional I am surprised by your irresponsible statements regarding poop. From Reference.com "feces or excrement or stools - Solid bodily waste discharged from the colon through the anus during defecation. Normal feces are 75percnt water. The rest is about 30percnt dead bacteria, 30percnt indigestible food matter, 10–20percnt cholesterol and other fats, 10–20percnt inorganic substances, and 2–3percnt protein." I'm not sure about bacteria's "weight by volume" but your response surely seems to be more of a fearful, digust based response than what you imply by stating you are a "health" worker.

I'm not into shit, for sure, but if shit were as dangerous as you imply, animals and people would be dropping dead left and right!

With proper cleanliness there is nothing dangerous or unclean about a rim job. As Dan stated it is the recipients responsibility to insure the area is ready. If you even think you need to have a bowel movement, do it before and clean up afterwards, preferably with soap and water!

A rim job is a great component for a fun night of sex. For me both fun to give AND receive. Sounds like you need to get over your hang ups and go have fun with your husband/partner. Perhaps beeng a bit GGG will get you the night of your life!
Posted by jagonthefly on June 23, 2009 at 11:36 PM · Report this
16
Thanks for your advice to NCA. If I'd had two correctly connected neurons when I was 18, I would have realized the guy needed to change condoms when he changed girls - and I wouldn't have caught HPV from my best friend when we were in college.
Posted by Mimie on June 24, 2009 at 1:09 AM · Report this
17
Reading the first lines of PIMP's I had a undefined feeling of discomfort. I greatly felt PIMP that you are patronizing her : i am a successful man versus she is young, jobless and drives an unsafe car and owes a lot. Then comes the person with a shining armor, I feed her, I house her and pay her medical bills. I feel that you are owning her and there fore she must "succumb" to your desires. In a few words you are a male chauvinist pig. For you, women are sex objects born to satisfy your inner fantasies. I can't even remember that you tried to help her find a job, suggest her to buy another car, to re-finance her credit card debt (you are working on wall street aren't you). Her only alternatives are a slut or a waitress... there must be something in between... but no for you, the most important thing is to make sure that she is beneath you... I do not think this is a serious basis for building a long, lasting and trust based relationship. Dump the poor girl and open a brothel... may be on Battery park , i am sure you are going to be able to pay the mortgage .
Posted by chaya760 on June 24, 2009 at 1:25 AM · Report this
18
Wow, lots of righteous feminist rage there, chaya760. I've gone through liberal-arts education ringer, and I've discovered that you can deconstruct pretty much any text & twist it to find meaning to support your own good/evil extremist views. It's a good thing you're not an advice columnist. People need real, practical advice that respects their desires, calls them on their shit, but always with the sincere wish that these people can go on to live healthy, happy, sex-fulfilling lives. Deconstructing people's desires to fulfill your own needs of righteous indignation is rarely helpful to anyone.

Yeah, the world is fucked up, what a revelation, give yourself a star for today. But pointing accusing fingers only swirls the shit around, it doesn't clean it up.
Posted by Maximillian Schell has left the building on June 24, 2009 at 2:34 AM · Report this
19
On condom switches: Def. not optional, and the same goes if you plan to fuck the same woman twice. Condoms are not meant to be reused, they're meant to be disposed of once there's sperm inside them. Using them a second time reduces safety, both in regard to pregnancy & STDs, and as safety is the point of using them = you SHALL AND MUST change it, or chances are it will rip and/or leak. Should be taught in school...
Posted by Da Lady on June 24, 2009 at 5:33 AM · Report this
20
In regards to PIMP's situation, I think the "mixed" comment is pretty key actually. If he really was supporting her, and she finally found a way to reduce that support or eliminate it, of course that would be a benefit because she wouldn't be financially independent anymore. And maybe that is a big enough benefit to offset all the costs like sleeping with men that she doesn't really want to, risking disease or injury, etc. Now that she has stopped and is more financially dependent again, I think almost any mention of wanting her to do it more puts a lot of pressure on her, because the difference in wage is so great. If she were financially independent and then he made that suggestion, a lot of that pressure would be off.

Then again, "mixed" could mean the exact opposite, but considering it's coming from the other party who isn't actually engaging in what is going on, and he is turned on by it, so obviously will go to great lengths to see it continue, suggests that maybe he doesn't really know how it feels.

If her having sex with other men turns PIMP on, why not just let her do it for free? If it is the paying for sex that turns him on, there's gotta be some sort of role-play or fake scenario they could set up.

And if in the end, it's just because he wants to buy a house, he should probably help her find a higher paying job that she is more excited about.
Posted by samedelstein on June 24, 2009 at 5:35 AM · Report this
21
@ Mimie,
maybe you would have caught HPV with condom change too... the virus could have rubbed off on his skin, and then on to your skin, sadly condoms don't offer high protection against diseases passed by skin-to-skin contact (hpv, herpes, syphilis) simply because they don't cover the whole area.

Which is something NCA and his partners should consider, btw.
Posted by Rainy on June 24, 2009 at 5:55 AM · Report this
22
"I have a problem with the answer to PIMP, since it seems to presume that escorting for women is the heterosexual male equivalent of swallowing cum from hundreds of men—meaning that escorting is like being abused. It's a stupid analogy, and surprisingly puritanical for this column."

I believe he was comparing "sex with someone you're not attracted to" to "sex with someone you're not attracted to."
Posted by NowIWillNeverBeCool on June 24, 2009 at 5:59 AM · Report this
23
You never go ass to mouth!
Posted by Rachel in the sky with diamonds on June 24, 2009 at 6:34 AM · Report this
24
Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but regarding the eating ass question, how about some plastic wrap?
Posted by Elf on June 24, 2009 at 7:29 AM · Report this
ohbalto 25
@ Da Lady

You said:

"you SHALL AND MUST change it, or chances are it will rip and/or leak. Should be taught in school..."

And while I absolutely agree with you 100%, when I was in High School sex ed (we're talking late eighties here, for context), we were told NOT to change condoms if we had sex with the same person more than once in, um, a row (or something).

It always rang false, and seemed unwieldy. What we were told is that there was a danger of sperm remaining viable on the penis (not true) and that there was a chance one could get some on the outside of the new condom and it was "safer" to just keep reusing the same one over and over.

For context, again, late 1980's in a Long Island, New York High School. Scary, no?
Posted by ohbalto on June 24, 2009 at 7:43 AM · Report this
26
I don't understand why people are getting hung up on the nuances of "mixed" feelings. That's PIMP's word, not his girlfriend's. Who knows how accurate it is...
Posted by twitch on June 24, 2009 at 7:47 AM · Report this
27
Dan said a guy with two women who are wearing female condoms can go back and forth as he wishes, but I'm wondering: can female condoms be used more than once? Also, aren't they less effective against STDs than male condoms?
Posted by My Name Here on June 24, 2009 at 7:55 AM · Report this
28
How I interpreted "mixed" was directly affected by how the girlfriend was doing it -- she stopped the second she didn't desperately need the money. I'm guessing "mixed" means that she liked the money, but wasn't so sure about the job itself, and even so, didn't like the work enough to give up the good pay.

Everyone has hang-ups about their jobs, but most of us get over them because we need the money. That she promptly dropped the job is a huge clue that she hasn't gotten over the "issues" (her words, apparently) of sex work.

Don't force it, PIMP. That said, you shouldn't be doing everything for her if you can help it; is she doing everything to minimize her expenses now? Etc.

If you want a house more than a waitress girlfriend, well, you know what to do then: move on.
Posted by Gloria on June 24, 2009 at 8:03 AM · Report this
29
Maybe PIMP should stop trying so hard to buy a house and opt for buying a condo or renting.
Posted by MNF on June 24, 2009 at 8:41 AM · Report this
Frau Blucher 30
BTIMM - My advice, as a gay, male bottom is, learn to douche your behind. Guys who enjoy anal appreciate the extra effort put into making it a "clean" experience. Well, most do, anyway.

My extra tidbit of advice, which I developed over the years is to add a drop of gel toothpaste on your anus, after you've cleaned down there. I've only experienced compliments from doing such. I'm sure your bottom-munching boyfriend will appreciate the mild, minty flavor, and it makes the whole experience more enjoyable for both him and you.
Posted by Frau Blucher on June 24, 2009 at 8:46 AM · Report this
31
Is PIMP even really this girls boyfriend? The way he describes their arrangement he makes it sound he's one of her clients. Like a craigslist ad, need help paying your bills ladies, let me be your benefactor.
Posted by Karey on June 24, 2009 at 8:58 AM · Report this
32
i have a hunch pimp isn't going to be a long term bf for the grad student. he assumes they are going to "make things more permanent" but....it strikes me as unlikely. just my intuition here. she' gonna move on soon.
Posted by ellarosa on June 24, 2009 at 9:59 AM · Report this
33
@22

"I believe he was comparing "sex with someone you're not attracted to" to "sex with someone you're not attracted to.""

Well, you would simply be wrong.

He was comparing "sex with someone you're not attracted to" (escorting) to being forced to engage in a sex act that you find repulsive, nauseating, abhorrent, etc. (any heterosexual man would find swallowing cum repulsive). There is simply no indication in the letter that the escort is engaging in sex acts that are so absolutely repugnant to her.

Dan might as well have compared escorting to an a situation where an unwilling victim is being shit on, pissed on or tortured. They aren't the same, and there is absolutely no indication from the letter that the escort feels degraded in the way that is implied in Dan's analogy.

Dan's analogy also implies that an escort has given up all control over her sexuality simply by the nature of the job. Rubbish. An escort can set rules and an escort can say "no".

I think many people, Dan included, are simply too willing to assume that escorting is essentially, and more than any other job, a deeply humiliating act.
Posted by clembot on June 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM · Report this
34
...and just to head off any confusion...

I am not suggesting this woman should continue escorting if she has "issues" with it, or "mixed" feelings. I am suggesting that making blunt comparisons that are obviously intended to disgust the letter writer are simply way off base.
Posted by clembot on June 24, 2009 at 10:18 AM · Report this
35
I'm a huge fan of the female condom -- because it feels better to the inserting partner (me).

They are re-used in the third world where a re-used condom is better than no condom at all. Even at $3+ each, we can afford to replace them.

The lower effectiveness is because it is easier to misuse them. Every time you enter the hole, you must be sure you've hit the mark and are inside the condom. If either partner likes complete withdrawal and re-entry, this is highly problematic. In these cases, it is best for the receiving partner to hold the outer ring in place with fingers to assure protected penetration.
Posted by vab251 on June 24, 2009 at 10:24 AM · Report this
36
@33: I dunno. Have you ever had sex with someone for any reason other than your personal desire (i.e. in this situation, money)? It's not fun. I haven't done it for money, but having sex I wasn't into at all I'd unhesitatingly term "gross" if not "weird and creepy" and yes, possibly "repugnant."

I think Dan's analogy of PIMP servicing hundreds of strange men is analogous because in this situation, it MAY be humiliating or repugnant for PIMP's girlfriend to continue escorting. She's indicated serious reluctance (that is, enough to give up a hugely lucrative salary) with the work. She *could* be a satisfied, independent escort, but where are those indications? She got into the work in the first place because of credit card debt, and dropped it *ASAP* when the debt was gone.

She'd rather be waitressing (which isn't the best work either) for a paltry salary than doing sex work, which is a pretty strong statement on whether she liked her old job.
Posted by Gloria on June 24, 2009 at 10:41 AM · Report this
37
@33: Oh, and that's not to say if escorting is your thing, then you should stop doing it. (I wouldn't do it, but I can understand if others do. No biggie.) But the situation here is that PIMP's girlfriend is obviously reluctant and does view sex work as having "issues", as she says.
Posted by Gloria on June 24, 2009 at 10:46 AM · Report this
38
@ Raimy, what you say about HPV is correct, but it's worth pointing out that HPV is an STD that doesn't require sexual contact to transmit. I gave a girl an HPV infection in spite of the fact that she was my first everything: kiss, date, girlfriend, oral, sex, etc. I don't think she was cheating, so unless you believe in spontaneous generation, I had to get it from somebody. Which means I got it without any sexual contact whatsoever.

So remember: abstinence is not an effective means of preventing the spread of STDs!
Posted by turgenev on June 24, 2009 at 11:06 AM · Report this
39
Sorry turgenev... she was cheating on you.
Posted by naive on June 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM · Report this
40
I think Dan's advice to PIMP is pretty much on the mark (as always). For her own sake, the girlfiriend needs find a well paying job worthy of her education, and then the pair of them should investigate some serious cuckolding with guys that she finds attractive (it works for my wife and I). If payment needs to be involved, build that in and give the proceeds to a worthwhile charity.
Posted by feralcpl on June 24, 2009 at 12:07 PM · Report this
41
To all the folks who are waffling on PIMP, take the sex out of it and think of it in context.

Let's just say I have a choice between working for Acme Corporation making jet-powered roller skates and Amalgamated Widget making widgets. I've worked for Amalgamated Widget before, and I decided I didn't want to work for them in the future. Even if they pay 10 times what Acme pays, I still don't want to work for them.

Now, with no sex involved, does my significant other have any call to say, no, you should go work for Amalgamated Widget because I like the idea of you working for Amalgamated Widget?

Didn't think so.

It's not his life, and it's not his decision to make. It's hers. If they're in this together and money is an issue, he could help her find a better paying job, or he could help her find other ways to be financially independent.
Posted by slinky on June 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM · Report this
yourherokate 42
@33 how can you say "any heterosexual man would find swallowing cum repulsive?" have you polled all heterosexual men? my boyfriend has tried to have sex with men, and he's not into it, but he eats his own cum all the time, and seems to enjoy it, so is he gay?

i think all that dan is trying to say here is that there are lots of reasons why his girlfriend might not want to be a sex worker, and unless he's tried it himself he can't really understand where she's coming from.

@38 you definitely can get hpv from non-sexual contact (a toilet seat, for example), but how are you so sure that you're the one who gave it to your partner? it's almost impossible to trace where someone got something like hpv, unless you knowingly sleep with someone who has it.

and finally, i'd like to direct you all (particularly BTIMM) to my friend's movie: butthole lickin. some of you may have seen it at hump! last year.

Posted by yourherokate http://blogs.evergreen.edu/katerr on June 24, 2009 at 12:27 PM · Report this
yourherokate 43
dang, it won't post the link, go on youtube and search for butthole lickin starring bridget irish and missus adams.
Posted by yourherokate http://blogs.evergreen.edu/katerr on June 24, 2009 at 12:29 PM · Report this
44
Clembot...
Swallowing the cock and cum of a strange, unattractive man is repugnant, disgusting, traumatizing, etc. for a heterosexual woman, too. If the person doing so, male or female, can disconnect the reality of what's happening, and see it more clinically as a job, well then- this person is a successful whore. Gender doesn't dictate that ability.

A typical man might supposedly find the idea of being paid to have sex with the opposite sex interesting, but 1) a typical woman doesn't feel that way, 2)) there are gender power dynamics here you are not recognizing, 3) having sex with a man and a woman are different experiences (I would feel more comfortable, as a straight woman, being a lesbian escort than a straight one) 4) you would likely be servicing people you find unattractive, gross, creepy, and even threatening.... whatever gender that is, that's a... repugnant experience.

There are always people crawling out of the woodwork to pick apart some detail of what Dan said, while completely missing the spirit and truth of it.
Posted by pi on June 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM · Report this
45
@38
HPV is passed through genital contact. A person can have HPV even if years have passed since he or she had had sex, and most infected persons do not realize they are infected or that they are passing the virus to a sexual partner. She could have gotten HPV through a previous partner, and it didn't show up until she was with you.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.h…

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/STDFact-HPV-a…

Also, you cannot get HPV from being unclean or from toilet seats.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/common-questi…
Posted by sibley on June 24, 2009 at 12:58 PM · Report this
PussyDunkinHines 46
When someone kisses me on the mouth after eating my ass - it tastes like strawberries. I'm not even playing. I'm just sayin'... I'm a clean teen.
Posted by PussyDunkinHines on June 24, 2009 at 1:05 PM · Report this
47
It seems odd to me that BTIMM is "afraid that telling him would offend him." If she doesn't like kissing her boyfriend after he eats her ass, I am assuming SHE never eats HIS ass. So don't you think he has figured out by now that she's not into analingus (except on the receiving end?) I don't think telling him will offend him; I think he already knows.
Also, why don't you try to work on this hang-up a little, for the sake of mutual pleasure, by taking a shower together before sex? You can soap your little assholes up to your heart's content, then relax and enjoy everything, including the kisses afterwards.
One last comment about germs: my husband is a gastroenterologist (who happens to enjoy rimming me)and he would like to remind everyone that you ingest small amounts of fecal bacteria every day. It gets on your hands, on doorknobs, on money, in the food you prepare or consume in restaurants, etc. 99.999% of the time it doesn't make you sick. Our bodies are well adapted to fight off most germs.
Posted by JustAnotherSavageLover on June 24, 2009 at 2:06 PM · Report this
48
what does "just as Paris was worth the hassle of a mass" mean?!? i'm very confused by that, and i hate feeling like i'm missing the joke.
Posted by bridget1116 on June 24, 2009 at 2:32 PM · Report this
49
Eating ass puts you at greater risk for Hep C (especially), among other things. So, technically, does kissing someone right after you eat ass. Please, use some kind of barrier when you eat. Latex can be more pliable than plastic wrap; or cut open a condom.
Posted by Mr. Winky on June 24, 2009 at 3:18 PM · Report this
50
@bridget1116 (comment #48) I was baffled by this too! But googling a bit, I read that in order to claim the kingship of France, Henry of Navarre renounced Protestantism and converted to Catholicism. It was worth attending mass, if he could rule over Paris and the rest of the country. (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?…)
Posted by alvin on June 24, 2009 at 3:35 PM · Report this
51
Eurg, I was in a 3 way where the guy didn't switch condom's between leaving the other girl and going to me. He had just finished with her, and was turning to me, and she and I were both like "ZOMG, CONDOM CHANGE" and he was like "WTF? My penis, it is in you!" Then I kicked him off me and cleaned up, but it was horrible. I wound up with crazy yeast. We were young and drunk, but that's still no excuse.

As for ass to mouth - I love anal.I'm all about it, all of it. But I still get squicked by ATM contact to. I'll eat ass with a barrier, and I've taken my dick out of a boy and then had him dive in to suck it, but after wards, there was no kissing, and he ran to brush his teeth. (and this is a man with the cleanest ass I've ever encountered)
Posted by WendyBlackheart on June 24, 2009 at 3:52 PM · Report this
52
I'm amused that clembot is trying to call Dan out for supposedly "puritanical" attitudes about sex work, when clembot himself seems to be in full Gay Panic Mode with regard to the idea of performing blow jobs.
Posted by PGofHSM on June 24, 2009 at 4:01 PM · Report this
53
@36:

"I think Dan's analogy of PIMP servicing hundreds of strange men is analogous because in this situation, it MAY be humiliating or repugnant for PIMP's girlfriend to continue escorting. She's indicated serious reluctance (that is, enough to give up a hugely lucrative salary) with the work. She *could* be a satisfied, independent escort, but where are those indications? She got into the work in the first place because of credit card debt, and dropped it *ASAP* when the debt was gone."

Dan's analogy doesn't allow for any of the ambiguity that you have just allowed for. He ONLY compares her escorting to a straight male having to eat the cum of other straight males. His meaning is quite clear, and it is obvious that Dan is trying to portray escorting as a horrible and disgusting job. There is no room for words like "may" or "could" in his answer.

Once again, I acknowledge, as I did from my first post, that she has some problems with escorting. In no way do I suggest she is a happy escort, or that she should continue escorting if she doesn't want to. In fact 36, your answer is much better than Dan's, because you have at least allowed for some uncertainty about what is causing her to feel reluctant, and have granted that escorting is not necessarily a horror for escorts. That is really all that I am trying to suggest as well.

@42

"i think all that dan is trying to say here is that there are lots of reasons why his girlfriend might not want to be a sex worker, and unless he's tried it himself he can't really understand where she's coming from."

Yet Dan offers only ONE reason for why she does not want to be a sex worker, and that is that it is analogous to something awful and humiliating, a nightmare where the escort has no control. Dan doesn't qualify his analogy in any way, or suggest any other possibilities. That is really what I have a problem with, and that alone, because it promulgates a very narrow and ugly view of escorting and offers it as the only reasonable view.

@48

Finally, someone who has understood exactly what Dan meant in his comment. "Swallowing the cock and cum of a strange, unattractive man is repugnant, disgusting, traumatizing."—although your argument represents a bit of a shell game, since we have no way of knowing if the escort ever swallowed anybody's cum at all. However, you have taken Dan's proper meaning, that the escort experiences a kind of hell.

Maybe Dan has more information in the unedited letter that we don't. But, if there was something that indicated that the escort truly felt humiliated and degraded, wouldn't it make sense for Dan to have been much harsher with PIMP?

I usually find Dan's advice to be more thoughtful than this week, and am actually surprised that this weeks advice is so blunt.
More...
Posted by clembot on June 24, 2009 at 4:01 PM · Report this
54
Or, think of it this way PIMP: Sex work aside, it is never practical to get used to an income level that one cannot or will not maintain just to afford something (ie downpayment on a house) in the near future. The intent may be for the sex work to be temporary but there will always be something down the road that will make that extra income useful and necessary so there will always be a reason that you "need" your GF to continue as a sex worker.
Posted by lia82 on June 24, 2009 at 4:08 PM · Report this
JR Labrador 55
At the end of the sixteenth century, France was torn apart by a series of religious civil wars between the Catholic majority and the Protestant minority, who were concentrated in the South. During the course of these wars the throne of France became vacant and the leading candidate, Henry of Navarre was a Protestant from the Pyrenees. Henry wages war barrelling north toward Paris, which he soon surrounds. The siege goes on and on and on and on, because Parisians flat out refuse to accept a Protestant as king. Henry relents, muttering "Paris is worth a mass" and converts to Catholicism. Paris opens its gates and Henry becomes King Henry IV. Happy fun until Henry is assasinated by a Catholic fanatic some years later.
Posted by JR Labrador on June 24, 2009 at 4:17 PM · Report this
56
As a sex worker I must say that I completely and utterly enjoy the work I do.... It is not something inherently disgusting and degrading and I have NEVER swallowed come... In fact I have had safer sex since I started escorting 4 years ago then I ever had before.... Not just safer sex but sober sex as well!

That said I do not think that PIMPs girlfriend should go back to escorting full time.... In fact I think he sounds like kind of a douche.... I am a sex worker because I get off on having sex for money.... If she doesn't get off on it then she shouldn't do it.... I think the same can be said for any job.... If you don't love it, quit.

@44 you said:
A typical man might supposedly find the idea of being paid to have sex with the opposite sex interesting, but 1) a typical woman doesn't feel that way, 2)) there are gender power dynamics here you are not recognizing, 3) having sex with a man and a woman are different experiences (I would feel more comfortable, as a straight woman, being a lesbian escort than a straight one) 4) you would likely be servicing people you find unattractive, gross, creepy, and even threatening.... whatever gender that is, that's a... repugnant experience.

I feel like you are completely off the mark in this paragraph... The men I meet with are completely respectful and mostly consider themselves feminist or a sort.... I have never felt a power imbalance at all since I started doing such work (I weed the assholes out before I even show up to meet with them)... Of course I am working in San Francisco so I imagine the clientele might be different but then again it might be true all over.... We are helping each other! I've even saved marriages! I am a therapist as well as a sex worker.... Me doing sex work has actually saved my marriage! (My partner, hetero male does not like sex as much as me... huh!)

I don't like how you are like "typical woman" this and "typical man" that.... Is there even such a thing? Everyone is made the way they are... Please do not lump me into the stereotype that women do not enjoy sex or imply that my gender is somehow weaker than the other... I gave birth! Naturally! In my bed! I don't shave or succumb to other social standards of beauty... Yet here I am... teaching men to be sexual and sensitive lovers and allowing myself to be as sexual as I want to be....

Also, for the record, I have never had sex with someone I thought creepy.... Escorts can say no whenever they want! We are people too.... please stop patronizing us. In general we can take care of ourselves.....
More...
Posted by QXZJ on June 24, 2009 at 5:05 PM · Report this
Violet_DaGrinder 57
@30

LOL!

If somebody had a mint-flavored asshole and didn't warn me about it in advance of the onset of ass-licking activities. . . fuck, I don't know WHAT I would do, but I'd be extremely confused.

Also, Dan, the response to PIMP was fine art. Bravo.
Posted by Violet_DaGrinder http://www.imeem.com/jukeboxmusic51/music/y1malqpG/prince-the-new-power-generation-featuring-eric-leeds-on-f/ on June 24, 2009 at 5:05 PM · Report this
58
Hepatitis C is transmitted through the blood, so unless one partner has bleeding hemmorhoids and the other has bleeding gums, analingus doesn't put them at increased risk for Hep C.
It doesn't hurt to be cautious, so there's nothing wrong with Mr Winky's suggestion about using an opened-up condom. Just sayin'.
Posted by JustAnotherSavageLover on June 24, 2009 at 5:13 PM · Report this
59
great advice to BTIMM Dan.

That's a hang-up of mine as well, and the partner I was with was cool enough to briefly brush his teeth after he did that (and oh WOW was it ever great), basically because I presented it as my own hang-up and politely requested that.
Posted by MT3 on June 24, 2009 at 6:31 PM · Report this
60
Pimp's girlfriend should DTMFA.
Posted by assistantrachel on June 24, 2009 at 8:03 PM · Report this
61
As a regular savage love reader I can imagine several ways that the two halves WendyBlackheart's comment could make sense together, but just out of curiosity...
Posted by CBBaltimore on June 24, 2009 at 8:23 PM · Report this
62
I think BTIMM would be well advised to attend HUMP!
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/e3d7db3…
Posted by grayvie on June 24, 2009 at 9:10 PM · Report this
63
I loves me the rimming (and I really don't want to taste mint when I'm doing it, thank you), but my fiancee would have a major cow if I tried to kiss her after rimming without using Listerine or the equivalent in between. Which seems pretty darn reasonable.

And I would suggest that there's something at least a little bit wrong with a relationship where you feel you can't talk to your partner about a simple preference that happens to have a serious health rationale behind it. If you can let someone tongue your asshole, you ought to be able to talk to him about it, don't you think?
Posted by Brett Alan http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_songs-Power-Pop.html on June 24, 2009 at 10:33 PM · Report this
64
Da Lady: you're missing the point, which is that sometimes in MFF threesomes you change girls *before* you come, often several times. So re-using a condom you've come in isn't the issue.

What if you're switching between girls back and forth many times, as I've always done in MFF threesomes? It's part of the fun. It's completely impractical to get a new condom every single time, and you'd go through dozens of condoms! I guess the female condom is an option, but as vab251 pointed out, it doesn't really work when you're continually entering and leaving the pussies. Really, just use the same condom. Transmission from the outside of a condom is not likely enough to make using dozens of condoms/female condoms worth it.
Posted by Jeremy on June 25, 2009 at 12:18 AM · Report this
65
Jeremy- if one girl in the threesome has an STD like ghonorrhea you're going to transfer germs to the other girl on the condom, unless you get a fresh one every time you switch girls. You could always tell the girls to bring extra condoms, thereby splitting the costs. Other option is all of you get tested before playtime to determine if there are any bugs that could be spread.
Posted by E on June 25, 2009 at 1:47 AM · Report this
66
@18
It is all about respect and PIMP has none.
Posted by chaya760 on June 25, 2009 at 2:23 AM · Report this
67
@ 64

As far as I'm concerned, a threesome is worth a case of condoms. If you're worried about how much the condoms cost to the point where you're re-using them or risking exposing your partners to something infectious by switching back and forth, then you're a stingy tightwad schmuck who doesn't deserve hot sex with two girls, let alone one girl. Go use your hand. Don't need a rubber for that.
Posted by Khordas on June 25, 2009 at 5:43 AM · Report this
NinjaJohnson 68
This PIMP guy is undoubtedly a prick, but I have a question that no one is addressing;

What the fuck is wrong with being a waitress?

I'd like to take exception to the idea that the food service industry is in some way beneath the sex worker industry. Strippers and escorts are great, but I'm a straight guy and I have met some amazing women who happened to wait tables for a living, so what?

At least she has a job, asshole. That's saying something these days. Get over yourself.

I'll bet this fucker doesn't even tip over 10%.
Posted by NinjaJohnson on June 25, 2009 at 7:38 AM · Report this
69
The question was addressed in the letter: "I'd rather she make $200/hour on her back than $10/hour on her feet."
Posted by killjoy on June 25, 2009 at 7:50 AM · Report this
70
The advice for PIMP was one of the best things I've read in this column. I think Dan is on the money - PIMP sounds like a self-centered douchebag. He's not just supportive of a woman who wants to be a sex worker, he's trying to coerce her into being one because it helps him get his rocks off. That wouldn't be a bad thing if she didn't mind the work, but obviously she does. Her "mixed feelings" sound more like discomfort in telling him she didn't like it in the face of his encouragement. Also, it sounds like he may be focused too much on having the things that they could afford as a couple if only she would go back to sex work - again, that's selfish if she's not comfortable with it. He knew he was getting involved with a poor grad student when he did, so either he must accept the time it takes for her to get a decent job, or move on to someone who is as "successful" as him and doesn't mind his douchebaggery.

And I don't think there is anything wrong or selfish about BTIMM's request. Most would agree that if someone doesn't want to suck a cock after it's been in their ass, that's okay. I don't think this is much different. You can only clean the ass so much. Granted, maybe she's not making any special effort to clean it beforehand, maybe the rim jobs are spontaneous and she doesn't always get to prepare herself, but even so, it's an asshole. If he's fine with rimming it, that's great, but I don't think it's wrong if she wants him to freshen his mouth before kissing her afterwards.
Posted by DrReality on June 25, 2009 at 8:02 AM · Report this
71
I think changing condoms came up in my grade 9 sex ed class and so I have known to change condoms. Now this wasn't a standard part of the class but everyone was encouraged to ask any questions we had, and someone thought this would be funny and we learned this important fact. Its great what you learn when you don't have abstinence only sex education.
Posted by Word of the day on June 25, 2009 at 8:02 AM · Report this
72
Re: Orgutha Forka:

"Women are MUCH less sexually liberated than men."

Uhhhh...I never respond to these things, but how does being sexually responsible make one less sexually liberated? Just because a woman (or anyone) would demand to use (unused) condoms/know a partner's sexual history does not make them sexually inhibited. It makes them smart. And in fact, I suggest that it would behoove "sexually liberated" men to take some pointers from these supposed buzzkill female partners. This way they can all be sexually uninhibited AND safe!
Posted by AYE BEE on June 25, 2009 at 8:56 AM · Report this
73
PIMP is an idiot and the girlfriend should dump him. Once again Dan, you give horrible advice when it comes to women. She should of never turned to sex work, period, for any reason, bills, buy a house etc... Just get a job with that degree and pay your dues like everyone else. Why does PIMP think she should risk rape, STDs, and not to mention humiliation in order to put them on a fast track to a house.
I'd kick PIMP's ass if I could and then take his girlfriend to theraphy. BTW, I used to waitress and made and adverage of $25 hourly, not $10. Girlfriend must be in a small town or bad restaurant.
Posted by what? on June 25, 2009 at 9:11 AM · Report this
74
BTIMM, why not add washing that butthole (soap, water, wash cloth, scrub) of yours prior to getting it eaten (washing regularly reduces ick factor greatly) then ask boyfriend to wipe his mouth before he kisses. You can keep one of those pop-up containers of "Wet Ones" thats good for face and hands (readily available at many stores) by the bed. A little planning goes a long way.
Posted by what? on June 25, 2009 at 9:23 AM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 75
@72 AYE BEE

Even when safety and responsibility are practiced by everyone present, women are still less liberated/kinky/adventurous. Not all women, of course, there are always exceptions, but just in general.

I agree with you that both men and women can and should learn and take pointers from each other. That would certainly help people enjoy sex more. GGG's the way to be.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on June 25, 2009 at 10:59 AM · Report this
76
@3 - I think Dan was going easy on him. I'd imagine it would be easier for the average straight guy to suck another guy (or several dozen guys) off than take it in the ass. And PIMP did specify she was to make her living "on her back". And for $200. A little steep for just a blowjob. Anyhow, if you want to make it really fair, just have him do enough sexwork to earn the same amount of money she did in a month. Or just write down every act she performed for money and have him do the same thing. Simple.
Posted by nothing on June 25, 2009 at 12:10 PM · Report this
77
Just an observation here (I'm glad this is anonymous): A woman who is willing to trade sex for money can make a lot with much less risk and wear-and-tear and fewer moral qualms by working in a massage parlor. Typically, in a parlor staffed by American women, the girl is expected to provide only a “rub and tug” (Asian places can be different). She might allow some extra touching for an extra fee. That's all most of her customers will expect. If she provides or even offers more she'll probably be fired – it would attract too much attention from the authorities. She will be working in an established, licensed business location with other people around – she's not meeting an anonymous stranger alone in a hotel room. And she's in charge – she can insist he take a shower if he needs one, and she can walk out of the room if he doesn't like the rules. It's obviously nobody's first career choice, but it's better than working as an escort, and the service she provides isn't really much more intimate than some medical procedures or even legitimate massage, and she'll make a lot more money than waiting tables. Maybe the woman should try that if she has “mixed feelings” about selling her body. (And she should certainly dump the asshole boyfriend. He obviously thinks of her as some kind of entertainment, not as a person he cares about.)

.
Posted by who me? on June 25, 2009 at 1:29 PM · Report this
78
73, I'm an escort and I take issue with your comment. While PIMP's girlfriend definitely shouldn't escort if she's uncomfortable with it, there are many of us who find sex work an excellent fit for us. The risk of rape and STDs isn't higher than that of any other sex (fairly low with safer sex and good screening, by the way, and escorts are notoriously stringent about condom use), and as for humiliation, escorts can and do say no. Anyone I feel is humiliating me or trying to degrade me goes out the door immediately.

PIMP is still an asshole, though. Leave escorting to those of us who go for it happily and freely.
Posted by Cheerful Escort on June 25, 2009 at 4:59 PM · Report this
Kendrick 79
PIMP just needs to recognize that his girlfriend quit for a reason; he may not know it (or may not want to) but the simple fact is that if she decides to go back to that line of work, it's her choice.

They have plenty of fantasy material already, and if the financial issues are a concern, guess what? Make the money in a way you're both comfortable with.

Meanwhile, I suggest PIMP's girlfriend haul ass for the horizon. She could make decent money stripping or waitressing at a strip club, and that might not make her as uncomfortable. PIMP is fixating on the extreme, using it to fuel his own fantasies and failing to consider his girlfriend's feelings.
That? Is selfishness, pure and simple, and it's a horrid sign in a mate. It also doesn't tend to get any better.
Posted by Kendrick on June 25, 2009 at 8:16 PM · Report this
80
Dan---excellent advice for PIMP!

Posted by baba yaga on June 25, 2009 at 11:06 PM · Report this
81
Clembot
Your assertion that "Escorting is like being abused" (but only if it's done by men) because "obviously no straight male could see anything positive about swallowing a lot of cum" is not only inaccurate, it's sexist and clearly homophobic.
A male escort (straight or gay) servicing other men (straight or gay) would have just as much freedom to say no as a female escort. Abuse is never mentioned - except by you.

The only thing that was mentioned was that

1) One shouldn't ask someone to do something that they would be unwilling to do themselves and (Most Importantly)
2) Pimps FANTASIES about sex-work do not likely match up to the REALITIES of sex-work.

What Dan is saying to PIMP is that he should not ask for #1 until he has a firm grasp on #2
And seriously, how else are you going to know the realities of it than by doing it?
Good advice Dan!
Posted by you on June 25, 2009 at 11:21 PM · Report this
mr. herriman 82
(do i really have to own this comment?)

i always assumed that in a FFM threesome situation there would be enough activity between the ladies on their own to negate the need for the man to change condoms. do people have threesomes where it's just one guy going back and forth between two women without any one-on-one monkey business between the women? that doesn't sound very interesting.
Posted by mr. herriman on June 26, 2009 at 12:22 AM · Report this
83
Mr. Herriman:

Yes, people do. Especially if the women are straight. Or just not sexually attracted to each other. And it can still be interesting for everyone involved: hell, just watching is interesting.

But even if both of the women are bi, and both attracted to the other one, why would kissing, touching, and oral between the women "negate the need for the man to change condoms"?

I think what you're missing is that sometimes, going back and forth is not a "need", it's part of the fun.
Posted by Jeremy on June 26, 2009 at 3:22 AM · Report this
84
The issue I have with their relationship is that he's paying all her bills. That makes her a lazy bitch in my book, and him kind of weird and paternal-controlling.

People aren't well off when they graduate, but having a sugar daddy to pick up the bills is icky. This girl should be working to better herself, and living off her own income not his. Frankly she is a whore, so I can't see what her issue with sex work is.

I am a straight female, and I pay my own way. You only rely on one partner's money if one of you is ill/raising a child/temporarily unemployed/studying, all assuming you had a pre-existing agreement for one of you to quit the workforce for a while.
Posted by anoncomment on June 26, 2009 at 5:31 AM · Report this
85
Dear Mr. Savage
Recently (June 25 Friday 3AM) I heard you on National Public Radio. You were disappointed with the unfulfilled promises by the Democrats to Gay community. When asked what you were going to do about it, where could you go with your vote? You STUTTERED!! I just want you to know there is a POLITICAL PARTY that wants the same thing you do: RECOGNITION.

It's called the GREEN party, http://www.gp.org so when you and the other GLBT community have finally had enough of being USED for your votes.
Come on over, we'd like you to run for office, and represent us.

LEGALIZE PROSTITUTION. Let the WOMAN CHOOSE!!!
Posted by aicram62 on June 26, 2009 at 5:37 AM · Report this
86
@81

It is not my assertion that escorting is like being abused; it is obviously Dan's assertion. In fact, I have been arguing in post after post that escorting is NOT necessarily abuse. If anyone reads my comment @3, it is clear that you have quoted me out of context.

And a few have taken my comment "obviously no straight male could see anything positive about swallowing a lot of cum" out of context too. I was trying to characterize Dan's assumption, which I believe was the basis of his argument, namely, that his description of "choking down cum" was designed to offend PIMP. (As in, "I will describe something sure to offend PIMP...I know...choking down cum.")

But, perhaps I could have been clearer. Let me put it a slightly different way then. Dan assumed, and I think he assumed with great confidence, that PIMP, a straight male, would be repulsed by the idea of swallowing a lot of cum. Dan was trying to bother PIMP with a comparison that PIMP would find disgusting.

And the notion that I am homophobic is quite absurd actually; I laughed at that one.

I wonder if commenter 81 has noticed that all the sex workers that have commented so far have also dismissed Dan's description of sex work as distorted. I realize that I have belaboured this point, but the constant portrayal of escorts as nothing but victims bothers me deeply. I expect it from FOX news, but not from Savagelove.
Posted by clembot on June 26, 2009 at 1:22 PM · Report this
87
oh yeah...

@81

And anyone who thinks that Dan hasn't mentioned "abuse" simply because he doesn't use the word, but instead describes a situation where the sex worker is deprived of choice and is subjected to sex with a dirty person, well, what can I say? I wonder what word you would use for that?
Posted by clembot on June 26, 2009 at 1:34 PM · Report this
88
anoncomment,

Didn't he say she was in school until just recently? It does take some time to find a decent after graduation, although since they are not married I don't know why she doesn't just file for a student loan deferment so that he doesn't have to pay her student loans.

And one thing nobody mentioned here is the obvious - that if she went through all that trouble to go to grad school - not just college but graduate school and spent all that time there then of course she doesn't want to be whore all her life. And she can't look for a job in her field and put down on her resume "whore" or even "sex worker" - because no one would hire her (except johns)! And she can't say "unemployed" - because no one will hire her. So of course she needs a crappy but legal job for a while until she can find a good one in her field of study.

One problem with sex work is that we all get old, old men die younger than women do, and then what are you going to do? 80 years old and even if you're a knockout no men around cause they all died. And then what are you going to put on your resume while looking for legal work?

For that matter, in Nevada where it is legal - what do the women do there when they are too old to work on their backs? I can't imagine that making it legal makes it any easier for them to get hired elsewhere...or does it?

Also, I agree with everyone who said it's not his decision anyway. She already made her decision by quitting. He's an ass for trying to talk her into going back to it and that would be true no matter what job she was in.
Posted by Diagoras on June 26, 2009 at 1:48 PM · Report this
89
#84, didn't you read? PIMP's partner is temporarily un(der)employed, making her eligible for your oh-so-strict standards of when it's okay for one partner in a relationship to support the other. Who says PIMP is her sugar daddy? Maybe she (gasp) likes him.

It's nice that you're able to pay your own way, but in this economy, you should at the very least be aware that you're lucky. I've relied on my partner's income when I was out of work. He's currently relying on mine since the company he was working for collapsed. My brother is living with our parents since he got out of school when nothing but pizza delivery places were hiring. We're not "whores" (no offense to actual sex workers here) for relying on close relationships to help prop each other up when the governmental safety net is full of holes and it's a long, long drop to the bottom.
Posted by Irked on June 26, 2009 at 2:42 PM · Report this
90
@68

I don't think the issue is whether being an escort is more respectable than being a waitress, I think it's the pay difference. Sometimes waiters will actually OWE their employer money at the end of the pay period because they got jack squat for tips, but still are required to tip out to busboys, bartenders, etc. Sometimes they will get paychecks for $0.00. Now, I can't say I've heard firsthand whether similar things happen to sex workers, but if they do get stiffed (pardon the pun), they'll probably make enough to at least pay the bills. Nothing's wrong with being a waitress, but it can be difficult work where you don't get to choose which customers you'll serve and which you'll turn away, and at times can end up paying your employer for the 'privilege' of working at their establishment.
Posted by kheila on June 26, 2009 at 3:18 PM · Report this
91
@ Urgutha Forka:

Regarding that women (as you said, with exceptions) are less sexually liberated than men...

IN OUR CULTURE. This is because women in our culture are generally taught more that to be "feminine" and "pretty" they must be incredibly clean, whilst being simultaneously taught that sex and sex acts are "dirty." So, in most Western Culture, women get scared that if they do ar say anything sexually liberated, they will be look at as less of a woman. Now of course, as you said, there are exceptions (my wife and I are one example) and in my opinion women are definitely getting MORE liberated in regards to sex.

However, one other fear that I think a lot of women have is getting an unwanted pregnancy. Only takes one sperm. And a man can (though it's not nice to) ditch a woman who has a baby (or feel nothing if she decides to abort), while a woman is stuck in one form or another (either with a child and/or pregnancy she didn't want or stuck with medical history and psychological effects of an abortion). So that also causes a lot of dampers on sexual liberation for women.

(BTW, I'm pro-choice, but not pro-abortion; I really would prefer the idea of adoption in those cases but I do not feel abortion should be illegal. But let's not open that can of worms.)
Posted by Thoughtful ATM on June 26, 2009 at 6:03 PM · Report this
92
Any differences in sexual liberation are almost entirely due to religion and its repression of comprehensive sex education. Religion is a pox on human development.



Posted by XWEETIE on June 26, 2009 at 9:50 PM · Report this
93
Clembot
Not once did he say that PIMP would be forced to have sex with dirty men, merely that he would be put in a situation where (in order to be paid well) that it was a possibility. Just like it is a possibility (nay, probability) that not every single client of PIMP'S girlfriend was fresh from a thorough scrubbing in the shower the moment she met with them. She had every choice to refuse to sleep with them, just as PIMP would if he took Dan's advice.

You seemed to say that when a female escort is put in a situation where she has every control of who she has sex with, but little control over their medical history or personal hygiene, it's ok; IF however, a straight MAN is put in the Very Same situation with the Very Same level of control over who HE has sex with, it is abusive and repulsive.
Perhaps I was being unfair, so forgive me if I mistakenly took that to mean that you had some hangups, not about escorting, but about men having sex with other men.

For all the escorts that enjoy their job: God bless 'em, but PIMP's girlfriend is clearly not one of them. THAT'S the point. PIMP loved his fantasy of what sex-work was like for her, but it was his fantasy not hers, and she clearly wasn't thrilled by the realities of it.
PIMP couldn't understand why she would refuse; Dan did a pretty good job of explaining it to him.
Posted by you on June 26, 2009 at 10:10 PM · Report this
Azul 94
@91 & Urgutha Fork:
The main difference between men and women sexually is testosterone levels. Testosterone levels are affected by many things, such as diet, sleep, exercise, and stress, and the higher your testosterone levels go, the higher your sex drive will go. On average, women produce about one-tenth the testosterone that men do, and IMO, women on average have smaller sex drives (there are exceptions of course -- I consider myself to be one of them). I'm sure a lot of us have experienced decreased inhibitions as our sex drives increase -- I know there are many things that would gross me out when I'm not thinking about sex that I will do when I desperately want sex. In summary: the higher testosterone levels in men lead to higher sex drives and make them more likely to ignore their inhibitions.
Posted by Azul on June 26, 2009 at 11:34 PM · Report this
95
I fully support my man financially right now, he brings what he can in and he's going back to school in the fall. we both have had some rough patches in life and i think it's great that even if we don't work out i can know that i helped another person get on his feet, not because he's my boyfriend, but in todays society and economy we could all use a little help. anyway to my real point. i find it frightening that with all the technology and amazingly honest columns such as this that there are still people out there that only consider condoms as a form of birth control. i am comfortable with open relationships, but i am not down with disease. i'm not scared that my man will go out and have a one night stand, fall in love, and leave me, but if he does he wasn't committed to begin with. the problem is i don't trust that in the heat of the moment he would use a condom. i'm also a big fan of don't ask don't tell because we spend extensive time away from eachother for one reason or another and finding an std would be a really crappy way to start my imagination running wild about their encounter on top of the fact that an std at this point in our relationship is a 100% deal breaker. i remember him trying to talk me out of using a condom before we were both checked out and in todays world that repulses me, but he wore one and the hazy glow of puppy love had me in it's grasp, but now a year later and after many discussions on the issue. it could not be forgiven. on top of eveything a good friend of mine has full blown aids from getting several false negatives, so you need to get checked on a regular basis even if you don't think you're at risk. he's losing many of his bodies functions that he used to take for granted and this could have been caught earlier if he continued to get tested regardless.
More...
Posted by Polyester75 on June 27, 2009 at 12:36 AM · Report this
96
You:

Thanks for taking the time explaining to clembot. ("All the sex workers-" uhh, what, all two or three of them? And they speak on behalf of all sex workers. Right.)

Dan, loved the response to PIMP.

Thoughtful ATM: Go you, too.
Posted by someboooody on June 27, 2009 at 12:55 AM · Report this
97
Many women hate it when they are told they have lower sexual libidos than men (or generally have a lesser desire to fuck around than men), cause they believe this will make them not equal to men. If someone doesnt believe it is testosterene that makes you wanna fuck around, try a simple experiment - take a couple injections of testosterene and see for yourself.
Posted by bagel on June 27, 2009 at 1:09 AM · Report this
98
@ 94 Many women hate it when they are told they have lower sexual libidos than men (or generally have a lesser desire to fuck around than men), cause they believe this will make them not equal to men. If someone doesnt believe it is testosterene that makes you wanna fuck around, try a simple experiment - take a couple injections of testosterene and see for yourself.
Posted by bagel on June 27, 2009 at 1:13 AM · Report this
99
@97

Yeah, I heard that too from several female-to-male transsexuals. Testosterone injections makes someone who used to look at an attractive woman and think, "Wow, I want to get coffee with her, stare into her eyes, and have a meaningful conversation," go "Omg, all I can think about now is having sex with her. ARGH..."
Posted by Loxx on June 27, 2009 at 2:42 AM · Report this
pf3 100
Your advice to P.I.M.P was so fucking right that it changed my co-worker's concept of prostitution. Thanks!
Posted by pf3 http://www.last.fm/user/everett3/ on June 27, 2009 at 3:37 AM · Report this
WordyGrrl 101
I think Dan's advice to PIMP is right on. Nearly every sentence in PIMP's letter mentions MONEY, not sex. Money is obviously power in his world.

He can't understand why she'd turn down a $200 an hour job for a $10 an hour "on your feet, working your ass off" job. So Dan reminded him of the icky details that go into earning that $200 an hour. It's not all about getting paid to "lie on your back and have orgasms all day".
Posted by WordyGrrl on June 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM · Report this
102
@96

"("All the sex workers-" uhh, what, all two or three of them? And they speak on behalf of all sex workers. Right.)"

If even three sex workers say that they are able to maintain control of who they see, then that means that Dan's assertion that all sex workers will have no choice but to see men they find dirty and disrespectful is 100% wrong.

It is not necessary to my argument that these three women speak for all sex workers. However, it is necessary for Dan's argument that all sex workers necessarily lose control simply by being a sex worker. Dan is presenting a black and white argument, while I am saying that his view of sex work is too narrow.
Posted by clembot on June 27, 2009 at 11:31 AM · Report this
103
Use of the female condom in this situation presumes that the women won't want to have themselves some unobstructed fun in each other's woo-hoos. In my experience, quite a misplaced assumption. Prepare to swap it up NCA.
Posted by lori in bklyn on June 27, 2009 at 11:49 AM · Report this
104
@96
Read it one more time. I was referring "to all the escorts THAT enjoy their job"

I did NOT write THAT "all escorts enjoy their job"
See the difference?

Posted by you on June 27, 2009 at 3:05 PM · Report this
105
I'm a bit disturbed by some of the erroneous ass eating tips especially those coming from "health professionals." Eating an ass, dirty OR clean, will expose you to any diarrhea type pathogens from giardia to E Coli to salmonella. Diseases are passed by miniscule amounts of shit (eg food touching the hand of an infected chef) so being clean won't eliminate risk. It will also put you at risk for hepatitis A (NOT B or C, unless there is blood or come/vag secretions to mucous membrane contact). You can also easily pick up HPV, herpes, + syphilis, and you can get gonorrhea or chlamydia or LGV. You WON'T get HIV. You can't give someone something from their own ass by kissing, they would already have it. All of this has to be put in perspective of course.

An ass can be rendered perfectly clean by some douching to effect. I am perfectly happy to suck the LTR penis that occasionally alternates front to back in me. Anyone who's turned off by stinky kisses after being rimmed needs some presex hygiene, stat.

I'm an MD who teaches LGBs and MD's STD facts, FYI.
Posted by yonush18 on June 27, 2009 at 8:32 PM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 106
Hahaha. Your advice to PIMP was one of the best in ages, Dan. 100% spot on.

To those of you quibbling over the use of the term "mixed": stop it. Yes, some sex workers enjoy their job. Or at least feel like it is worth the money. I have no problem with that at all. But this woman clearly doesn't like it. If she did, she wouldn't give it up for a job that pays a tiny fraction of what she made as an escort. If she gave up $200 an hour to work minimum wage as a waitress, then she obviously really didn't like escorting. "Mixed" is his term, because it absolutely doesn't describe her actions.
Posted by Reverse Polarity on June 27, 2009 at 11:43 PM · Report this
107
OK, just one thing, and I know it's stupid simple, but I didn't figure it out till late: in the shower, SQUAT when you wash your butthole. It stretches out those little wrinkles & just makes it easier to get your soapy fingers in close. SQUAT when you wash it. Enjoy.
Posted by arsfrisco on June 28, 2009 at 8:09 PM · Report this
108
My partner and I solved the problem encountered by BTIMM simply by the application of baby wipes before beginning our encouters.
Posted by RickFowe on June 29, 2009 at 2:20 AM · Report this
109
My partner and I solved the problem of the squeamishness BTIMM encounters by the application of baby wipes before we begin our play. Really any moist towelette will do, but we appreciate the whimsy of baby wipes
Posted by RickFowe on June 29, 2009 at 2:25 AM · Report this
110
@4: RIGHT ON, KS!!!!

I couldn't have put it better myself.
Posted by humblepie on June 29, 2009 at 3:42 AM · Report this
111
@93: Right fucking ON!!!

Spot on call, too to PIMP, Dan!
You continue to rock!!!
Posted by baba yaga on June 29, 2009 at 3:47 AM · Report this
112
ITA with Dan on the PIMP response..all details aside, it comes down to, "why don't YOU try it for awhile, THEN get back to your GF, who has expressed a reluctance to continue doing it". And maybe support her in finding work more suited to her educational and intellectual level.

On the anal/mouth issue, spec. wrt hep C, yes, it is spread through the blood, and according to the CDC, the risk of sexual transmission even after "a lifetime of monogamous sex with an infected partner" is less than 3%. They do not even advise the use of condoms in the case of an infected and uninfected partner.

Now hep A or B, different matter.

Never been much into ass-play myself, but y'all be clean and have fun with it!
Posted by raven on June 29, 2009 at 1:36 PM · Report this
113
As a former social service worker and sex-educator...

Just my two cents about m/f/f three-ways and/or two or more women sharing toys; even if everyone is disease / infection / yeast free and no-one sticks anything in anybody else's ass, there is still a strong risk of PID - pelvic inflammatory disease - an immune reaction by one womans body to the vaginal/uterine cells of another.

Besides being painful, PID can result in sterility!

PID usually occurs in women who unknowingly share a male lover who's not very careful about washing between sexual encounters

As to anal-lingus you wouldn't put a dick in your ass and then in your vagina would you? A dental dam/saran-wrap should be used no matter how minty-fresh/clean as a whistle it seems :)
Posted by chris shaver on June 30, 2009 at 1:46 AM · Report this
114
Like Irena, I enjoyed Dan's response to PIMP so much I too had a cigarette. Then I thought, what if PIMP wanted calls Dan's bluff... another cigarette.

Go for it PIMP! Do it for love, seriously. Maybe you can score some bi curious guys and bi couples together?

Meanwhile, back on Wall Street the bonuses are flowing, the health care lobbyists are working, the campaign contributions are happening, the whores are spreading, the GOPer are adulating and apologizing, and were all about to get fucked again.
Posted by Guy Milch on June 30, 2009 at 3:26 AM · Report this
115
Go for it, PIMP! Call Dan on his bluff. Do it for love.
Posted by Guy Milch on June 30, 2009 at 4:03 AM · Report this
116
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that when two people are living and sleeping together, they end up having most of the same anal flora anyhow. I don't think there is a huge health risk here if you use common sense (don't eat ass from someone with the stomach flu, for example).
Don't they vaccinate for hep a?
Besides, the issue was ass-taste, not disease. This has gone way overboard. The solution to both of these problems is laughably simple -
if this girl doesn't want to escort, she shouldn't escort, and her bf should shut up.
if that girl doesn't like the taste of her ass, she shouldn't taste it, and her bf should shut up (and brush his teeth, get a breath mint, use a barrier, not kiss her, stop going down).
Posted by Beee on June 30, 2009 at 4:59 PM · Report this
117
@ 113-- I don't have any idea where you get that notion about PID being "an immune reaction by one womans body to the vaginal/uterine cells of another." PID is a result of untreated sexually transmitted illness, usually chlamydia or gonorrhea. It makes no sense that it would be caused by an immune reaction of one woman's body to another woman's cells-- if this were true, there'd be an astronomically higher incidence of PID in the lesbian population. In reality, the incidence of PID and other STIs is actually lower among lesbians.

If you have a source supporting the theory that PID is caused by an immune reaction of one woman's cells against another, I'd very much like to know, both for my patients and for myself. Do you have the PMID of the pertinent studies?
Posted by Bisexual MD on June 30, 2009 at 7:21 PM · Report this
118
@64 "Transmission from the outside of a condom is not likely enough to make using dozens of condoms/female condoms worth it."

are you f#cking kidding?! i almost forgot, in MFF threesomes, the point of wearing condoms is to only protect the M from 'transmission'! you don't deserve sex w/ 2 women or anyone for that matter... you're putting ur dick in 2 different holes on 2 different bodies... that means 2 different people getting transmitted to from ur selfish dick... don't even deserve internet porn...
Posted by ap on July 1, 2009 at 9:15 PM · Report this
119
Dan, right on with the comments! I like how you eased Pimp into a reasonable response, and busted out the truth. Same thing with the threesome dude. Lure them in, and mention wtf, you need to be protecting everyone's health! (duh)
Nice work. And yeah, the pimp dude sounds like he got what he deserved.
Posted by Emali on July 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM · Report this
120
Hi, interesting post. I have been wondering this issue,so thanks for sharing. I will definitely be coming back to your blog.I had recently found an interesting site ,London escorts, providing an escort service for a multinational selection of beautiful busty escorts in London for companionship.
Posted by LONDON ESCORTS on July 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM · Report this
121
To #38:

You had <<...oral sex....>> but << got [a disease] without any sexual contact whatsoever. >>

The thing is, that IS sexual contact, BIG-time! It isn't genital-genital contact, it isn't penetration/sexual intercourse...but it's every bit enough sexual contact to transmit all manner of sexually-transmitted diseases.

We have a tremendous confusion in our culture on the linguistics of sexual activity. We euphemistically say "have sex" instead of "have intercourse" [as in, "I did not have sex with that woman!" -- which was ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE according to the prudish usage prevalent among those who impeached a president for exactly that statement!] -- whereas we can be and are sexual in many different ways all our lives [even though those same people didn't want Jocellyn Elder telling that to teen-agers, even to cut down on the teen-pregnancy rate].

"Being sexual" through the use of oral sex as opposed to sexual intercourse is a great way to prevent pregnancy.

To prevent transmitting certain diseases...not so good at all.
Posted by Levanah on July 8, 2009 at 5:20 PM · Report this
122
Dan, I wish you hadn't damned the so-called FEMALE CONDOM with such faint praise. I've used it lots of times as a bottom for anal sex, and the tops have given it rave reviews, at least in part because its material holds body heat better than latex. It's also great for guys who find latex condoms constricting. Whether for anal or vaginal sex, it's always recommended to use lots of lubricant on the penis -- and since the condom isn't latex, oil-based lubricants work as well as water-based without compromising the condom. If the top/fucker wants to pull out & reinsert, it has to be done carefully, but it can be done. For the bottom in anal sex, using the "female" condom can reduce the need to meticulously douche. When we're finished fucking, I've found it best to excuse myself to remove it in private in the bathroom, in case of any santorum-ish mess. All in all, it's been a great addition to my sexual repertoire....
Posted by smart_fun_guy on July 16, 2009 at 9:41 AM · Report this
123
Came late to this one, but... (in fact, butt...) I usually agree with most of the advice on here, but the advice about 'salad tossing', well... it left a bad taste in my mouth.
The idea that by 'allowing' someone to lick your ass you are automatically vouching for its cleanliness is pretty patronising. It's up to the individual to decide what they're comfortable with - and if he's fine with the taste of a little by-product then that's his to choose, but he doesn't have the right to inflict it on her. I'd be saying precisely the same if was a question about eating garlic.

In terms of risk, I know that my attitude to risk is not identical to that of all my partners, and some activities are essentially one-way in this sense. Letting someone lick my anus may give them a stomach ache, but is unlikely to adversely affect me (and since I have a rubbish immune system, it's unlikely ever to happen the other way around). I've seen people who are into blood-drinking as a kink set up situations where infection-risk was essentially zero for one person and (hypothetically) extreme on the other, using sterile medical kit. I see nothing wrong with that either. As long as everybody is aware of the risks, balanced or no, then it's up to each person involved to set their own level.
Posted by Emanix on July 21, 2009 at 5:48 AM · Report this
124
@18: hypocritical much? Maybe you should also add "labeling people" to your list of do-not-do's
Posted by anonony on September 16, 2009 at 11:12 AM · Report this
125
Here are some educational article and videos in regards to personal Lubricants

Silicone Based:
http://www.happyendingonline.com/servlet…

Water based
http://www.happyendingonline.com/servlet…
Posted by czarspeed on August 4, 2010 at 7:37 AM · Report this

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