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Shitstorm!

March 3, 2005

By Dan Savage
Holy cow, Dan! What a mean response! I totally disagree that there is a direct parallel between mugging old ladies and having unsafe sex with an HIV diagnosis. The old ladies have no way to protect themselves, whereas EVERY SINGLE PARTNER that sleeps with an HIV-er has the choice to use a condom. I work at an HIV service agency and we deal with the issue of disclosure all the time--it's one of the hardest things for sexually active gay men, especially those that feel validated by sex, to handle. Placing all the blame for the spread of HIV on the people who are already infected is stupid--for many of them, it's incredibly psychologically damaging to live with both the social pressure of being gay and being seen as a walking infection. Should they expose other people to the virus? Of course not. But it takes two to tango.

Plus, there's a better way to reach positive people than forcing them to pay "drug-support payments." We should educate them so that they understand the risks they're putting themselves at, rather than scolding and punishing them for living with a tragic disease.

Doctor Nice

For the love of God, Doctor Nitwit, go into some other line of work! HIV service agencies are overrun with idiots who agree with you, and you're all making the AIDS epidemic incalculably worse. When confronted with a man who's running around indiscriminately infecting other men with HIV, your first impulse is to start spitting out excuses. We should have compassion! Disclosure is difficult! Let's educate the poor little darling--not about his responsibility to his sex partners, heavens no! Let's educate him about the risks he's putting himself at!

What about compassion for the men he's infecting? What about his responsibility not to spread HIV? As for education, if this asshole is smart enough to use the Internet to line up sex dates, he's smart enough to know that it's wrong to give someone else HIV.

And you know what, Doctor Dipshit? I didn't suggest that we scold and punish people for living with a tragic disease. I suggested that we scold and punish people who maliciously and/or negligently infect other people with a tragic disease. I have scores of friends with HIV who go to great lengths to avoid infecting others and I certainly wasn't scolding them. They're the good guys and I'm sick to death of "HIV educators" lumping my ethical HIV-positive friends in with selfish, unethical, immoral HIV-positive shitbags who could care less about infecting other people.

Yes, it takes two to tango. That's why in my drug-support-payment plan the malicious and/or negligent infector would only be on the hook for 50 percent of the expense of the drugs that the person he infected would need to stay alive. As for being "mean," my drug-support-payment plan is less mean than the alternative suggested by numerous Savage Love readers: prison. In most U.S. states and all of Canada, knowingly exposing someone to HIV is a felony--just like mugging little old ladies.

As someone who has worked in HIV/AIDS in NYC for almost 17 years, I applaud your "drug-support payments" idea. Since the beginning of HIV/AIDS I have always been amazed that the onus of prevention was on the uninfected and not the person with HIV. For most communicable diseases, the infected person is educated on how to not spread disease. Someone with active tuberculosis is expected to stay home, not go to work, and to wear a mask to prevent others from being infected. So why is it so hard to council someone with HIV to not spread a deadly virus? Why is it such a taboo among so many gay activists groups for the HIV-positive person to be a responsible human being?

Wake Up, People!

P.S. If you print this, please do not use my name. I work for a public health agency that would not be too happy with my opinions.

I was heartened by your letter, WUP, until I got to your P.S. What does it tell us about HIV and public health agencies that your opinions are so controversial that you can't sign your letter? Nothing good.

Longtime reader, first-time writer. In regard to your "drug-support payments" idea, why stop with just HIV? Why shouldn't we do the same for smokers? And what about fat people? They regularly make themselves more obese. Shouldn't they have to pay for their diabetes meds, heart-disease meds, heart operations, etc.?

J.

Someone has to stuff his own face to get fat and light his own smokes to get lung cancer, which means every fat person and smoker out there is solely responsible for his own health problems. To get infected with HIV, however, someone has to infect you.

But I'll take your bait: Yeah, I believe that people who smoke or stuff themselves should pay higher health-insurance premiums than people who don't take those risks--and I said "higher," not crushing. The idea is to create a financial incentive for people to make better choices. Likewise, I think people who maliciously and/or negligently infect others with HIV should be held responsible for their actions, and drug-support payments would create a financial incentive to make better choices.

I'm a 52-year-old gay man--native San Franciscan--who lost count of the friends I buried from AIDS. I worked at San Francisco General Hospital and saw the horrors of ward 5A. I've walked in countless AIDS walks. Not a day goes by that I don't remember one of those who died. We didn't know what caused AIDS then. We do now.

That this asshole is purposely infecting others for his own physical pleasure is nothing short of criminal. It is premeditated murder. Yeah, I'd drop his ass quick--and I'd tell everyone I knew why. Hell, I'd probably tell total strangers. He would NOT be a friend. Sorry, but my friends care for other people. And ya know what else? I don't want to pay for his fucking medication. Nor do I want to pay for the medications of his barebacking asshole partners.

Once upon a time we opened our hearts and our wallets to those infected. We demanded that the government step in and help. I really hate to say that I don't care, but I don't. Go ahead and die.

Tim D.

It's difficult for me to read about people like Help Me Do The Right Thing's friend. At 32, I contracted HIV from a guy I'd been seeing who lied to me about his status. I've accepted my part of the blame. But I also know that in the State of California knowingly transmitting the virus is a felony. I'm not sure if prosecuting this guy is what I want, but I do agree with the idea that he should pay for the obscenely expensive meds I now have to take for the remainder of my life.

Todd

Thanks for sharing, Tim D. and Todd. We'll have more on this subject next week--including whether or not it would be possible to establish an HIV "paternity"--but in an online special only, not in the print version of Savage Love.

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Comments (7) RSS

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1
So when our we responsible for ourselves and when are we responsible for others? I became infected by a man who told me he was HIV negative and so I let him fuck me. Two months later I tetsed positive. So, here I am - an HIV positive male prostitute who is pissed and ashamed and very scared. Should this man be prosecuted for infecting me, or should I let it go? Should I be responsible for telling all my sex partners about my status and risk major estrangement? Was it my responsibility that I became infected or was it the man's fault for lying to me? Does any of it matter, anyway? Maybe having a good attitude and coming out with my status may have unexpected positive benefits. But I cannot condone people who attack those who are afraid to disclose their status. It's easier said than done and for those who are so provocative in their opinions are doing nothing to further their position other than antagonize. So it becomes less about honest and open communication than about those who judge and their own issues with anger. I resent the likes of you almost as much as the man who infected me.
Posted by theodore on November 9, 2009 at 11:44 PM · Report
2
I was infected two years ago by a man who told me that he was HIV negative. So I let him fuck me without a condom. Two months later - BINGO! I go back and forth on my emotions all the time. Sometimes, I'm okay with it. Sometimes I think, I am a better person because of it. And sometimes, I'm just pissed and scared and sad. For the past 11 years, I have earned a living as a gay male prostitute. I've disclosed to a hand full of partners, usually either because I knew them well or because they wanted to have unsafe sex or because they asked me during the inital conversation/e-mail (not as they are walking out my front door. "Oh, by the way..." Sorry, I don't think those people even want to know the truth.) For a plain old blow job, I see no reason to go there. Should I expect scorn from certain groups? I hope not, but I've been disappointed before. But one of the things that really pisses me off, though, is certain people equating "knowingly exposing someone to HIV to mugging an old lady". First, like the other reader said, an individual has the right (unless under the circumstance of rape) to wear a condom or not, whereas the old lady is probably defenseless. Second, and just as tellingly, a person who mugs an old lady obviously intends to do her harm. A person who has HIV may not disclose their status for many different reasons that have nothing to do with intention to harm. Maybe they are scared to disclose their status, maybe they've barely learned to accept themselves, and those fears (for those of you who are HIV negative) are very, very real.. So please don't judge someone in that way unless you have been in the same situation. (Or unless you really, really can't help yourself because it makes you feel so much better about yourself when you do it.) It's not nice and secondly, it will do nothing to help you win your points: it will only alienate people and cause a disservice for what are - hopefully- constructive goals. And if you have been there, then hopefully you will know what it is to have empathy. Or if the person is a prostitute, he may advocate safe sex, but at the same time fear of possible retribution, loss of revenue, word getting out, etc, may keep him or her from being consistently honest. This is hardly the same thing as "intent to do bodily harm" and could in some more desperate cases be seen as self-preservation and "me against them", an attitude which your hostile words helps to encourage. How can you actually compare the two? In my case, my rent was due in two days and I felt at the time that it would probably be okay. Well, the man lied to me. So, was he responsible for infecting me? Or was I reponsible for not using protection 100% of the time. Should I be as angry at him as Mr. Savage apparently is? Because I don't think I am. Some people, Mr. Savage perhaps included, seem more anxious to point the finger and dig in and judge than resolving anything. I know that there are people who are HIV positive and are angry about it and see no outlet at their disposal to deal with their anger, so they go out and try to infect as many people as possible. This is not what I am talking about. Surely intention must count for a lot. I am fully aware of many of my personal problems and have made great strides in progress (always slow, never easy), but when some people become so vociferous and hostile regarding this topic of disclosure it often has, I suspect, the opposite effect intended. It throws everything out of whack, and, frankly, it turns a serious, sensitive topic into a bitching session. You seem so threatening and angry when you talk about it (I don't know, are you also infected and pissed about that, so you're projecting your angter onto others? Your extreme anger seems almost inappropriate here.) and I don't need to perceive one more "coming out" experience as a threat. So, the question is, do you want to help the overall cause and the people it is affecting (ALL of them, not just the uninfected) or are you nurturing your own out-of-whack anger agenda?
More...
Posted by theodore on November 10, 2009 at 12:53 AM · Report
3
A lot of people talk about personal responsibility. They are usually conservatives and frequently it is a euphemism for letting the poor, weak, or otherwise suffering populace suffer on their own.

And the proper attack of such euphemisms rarely sounds right: down with personal responsibility! No, wait...

I think what Dan is advocating is the missing link: SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY.

We are responsible to keep ourselves healthy and smoke-free because it is the socially responsible thing to do. To avoid littering not to avoid the fine but because it is the socially responsible thing to do. To raise our kids to be active members of society not so they can take care of us in our old age or make us proud but because it is the socially responsible thing to do.

But no one ever speaks of social responsibility. Only personal responsibility and the right to avoid helping each other, paying taxes, improving our towns...
Posted by Extuno on September 6, 2010 at 9:04 PM · Report
4
Oh, and being triply careful not to infect others is the socially responsible thing to do.
Posted by Extuno on September 6, 2010 at 9:06 PM · Report
sissoucat 5
I've had a bi boyfriend who told me he was HIV positive after a few dates, before we had had sex. He was not sure I wouldn't dump him. I didn't - I like an honest guy.

When we did have sex, we used a condom and we were extra careful, so what ? I'm still HIV- !
Posted by sissoucat on September 7, 2010 at 12:50 AM · Report
6
I have to say, I enjoy it when these older columns end up on the 'most commented' lists because that's usually where I start reading things on The Stranger. I have to wonder, however, at the algorithm that sticks them up there. This column is from years ago and only had only 2 comments before it was posted, and that's not the first time it's happened. Just my inner nerd's curiosity....
Posted by Mel on September 7, 2010 at 7:48 PM · Report
7
"Why doesn't she listen to Mr. Wonka, Grandpa?"

"Because, Charlie, she's a nitwit!"

Sections 264 and 231 of the criminal code of Canada
>Infecting someone who is unaware of your status before sex can be considered attempted murder.
>If a sex partner dies from HIV (infected by you, without knowledge of your status) it is considered first degree murder... even if it isn't premeditated.
Posted by I don't know why I'm saying this. on August 21, 2011 at 8:00 PM · Report

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