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Boy Trouble

August 26, 2010

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I lost my virginity last night.

I'm a straight male in my early 30s, so it was about time. It wasn't awkward, and we had a good time. However, I didn't climax, the result of years of death-grip masturbation. (Thanks for the warning, Dan, I'm sorry I didn't heed it.) She took it personally but seemed satisfied when I said it was only nerves.

I am left this morning with confusion and trepidation about my relationship with my new girlfriend. I suppose this is normal, but I don't see last night as a "bonding moment," and I am afraid that is a bad sign. I also find myself being extra critical of my partner's performance, which, as a virgin, I am not in a good position to judge. She has never been a particularly good kisser and her blowjob technique was less than spectacular. Although it was a pleasant experience, I feel like it lacked passion or a spark.

I feel like an asshole for even having these thoughts. Is there something wrong with me and/or am I an ass-hole?

One Potential Asshole

P.S. I have attached photos in hopes that you will respond.

There could be something wrong with you, OPA, and you could be an asshole. I can't rule either possibility out after quickly skimming one e-mail and thoroughly examining three nude photographs.

Just because you're a virgin—or were a virgin—doesn't mean you're going to automatically click with the first woman who volunteered to put your dick in her mouth. However much you like this girl, OPA, you still might not be sexually and/or chemically compatible.

But sex is a skill that takes time and practice to acquire. It may take a little time and some experimentation for you to discover what works for you. And if you give her some time, you may find that she works for you.

If she didn't know you were a virgin, OPA, tell her. And tell her that it wasn't nerves that prevented you from getting off, but the unfamiliarity of the sensations you were experiencing and, perhaps, a masturbatory style that desensitized your dick. Tell her it might take you a little while to get there, but with her help and patience—and mouth and pussy—you're sure you can get there. And then try to relax, experiment, and enjoy.

And no more death grip—period. When you masturbate, use your nondominant hand, a lighter grip, and perhaps a Fleshlight.


I'm herpes-free, but I found out today that my roommate has contracted it. He has a sore but won't see a doctor about it because he says he's embarrassed. We share the same bathroom, so I knew I would have to be diligent about that. But now I am freaking out: Not long after he shared this information, my 7-month-old puppy runs into his room and proceeds to cover my roommate's face in kisses. I've called the vet and my medical provider, and while they both agree that my pup cannot contract the STD, they cannot rule out the pup passing the infection on to me. Please advise. I would like to know how to best handle this situation.

Scared To Death

Wouldn't it be great if being paranoid about contracting herpes was the only way to contract herpes?

Look, STD, lots of people self-diagnose themselves with herpes when all they have is an innocuous little cut or sore near their mouth or genitals. People who are too embarrassed/ridiculous to go see their doctors are highly likely to arrive at a herpes misdiagnosis. So calm the fuck down.

Even if your roommate does have herpes, STD, you're not going to get it from sharing a toilet—unless you and the roommate have invented a novel new way of taking a dump. And you're not going to get it from your damn dog. For his own sake, your roommate shouldn't allow your dog to lick his open sores (who does he think he is? Job?), herpes-related or not, and if you're really freaking out about your promiscuously affectionate new dog, well, you can make up your mind to refrain from kissing any animal that drinks out of toilets, licks its own ass, and laps up vomit.


I have a new girlfriend. She likes me to eat her cream pie after we have sex. She does get off again and squirts most of the time when I do it. No one has ever asked me to do this before her. Is she crazy? Or am I for doing it?

Not A Cream Pie Lover Yet

Why does someone have to be crazy? A cream pie isn't my preferred post-orgasm snack—I much prefer a Creamsicle—but if it gets her off, and if doing this for her doesn't leave you curled up on the bathroom floor in the fetal position, then you're not crazy and neither is she. She's kinky, you're GGG, and you're both enjoying some kick-ass, boundary- pushing sex. Enjoy.


I'm a 28-year-old straight guy. I'm also five feet six and 124 pounds. I know, I know—I'm hardly microscopic. But I always feel like I'm a lost kid when I'm at a bar or club, with people my age or younger towering over me. So that, right away, is a confidence killer when trying to meet women. But here's the real kicker: I like tall women. In fact, I prefer somewhat butch women—Hilary Swank in Boys Don't Cry, Geena Davis in A League of Their Own—and this leads to the ancillary problem that many of the women I'm attracted to are lesbians and thus are not interested in me. But even the tall, butchy straight/bi girls tend to go for guys who are taller than them. Most women I talk to about why they fall for tall guys have a common theme: They are looking for someone who makes them feel secure.

That's what I want! Is it so damn wrong to want a woman to be protective of ME? I want to be held by a strong pair of lady arms! No, I'm not into super-muscle women, nor am I into hardcore dom/sub stuff. Why is my vanilla kink such an obstacle? What am I to do?

Below Their League

Most women prefer men who are taller than they are. It's a sad, unavoidable fact, BTL, one you'll have to accept (just as I had to accept that most men prefer women), and you'll have to search harder for the lady/lady arms of your dreams. Not much else you can do about it.

I've got some space to kill, so here are a few Savage Love programming notes: My recently announced celebrity crush—Stefon on SNL as portrayed by Bill Hader—is no longer operative. My new celebrity crush is Branden Hayward, the actor who plays the cute-but-dim young husband in those Rhapsody commercials. Sigh.

Ever wanted to be a porn star for a weekend but not for the rest of your life? Ever wanted to win large cash prizes? Go to thestranger .com/hump to learn more about HUMP!, The Stranger's annual amateur porn festival that's now in its sixth year. Hardcore, softcore, erotica, animation, robots, zombies, virgins, cream pies, lady arms—everyone and everything is welcome at HUMP! The deadline for entry is October 15. Go to the website for contest details, release forms, and dates.

And finally: Khia's new album? My goodness.


mail@savagelove.net

 

Comments (192) RSS

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Zergling Supermodel 1
Maybe OPA has unrealistic expectations regarding porn and partners due to decades of learning about sex only from porn? Porn and real sex are so unrelated that it is quite understandable he would feel something was "wrong" with the sex he had if he expected something straight from porn.
Posted by Zergling Supermodel on August 24, 2010 at 5:45 PM · Report this
2
khia, my goodness me!
Posted by littlesister on August 24, 2010 at 5:57 PM · Report this
3
Hey, BTL, 5'6" is really not that short.

Practice good posture (which makes everyone WAY more attractive). You can project that "hey, I'm secure and you'll be secure with me" thing with posture way more effectively than you can with height anyway.

If you really want a few inches, you can always put some lifts in your shoes.
Posted by SpaceGirl on August 24, 2010 at 6:16 PM · Report this
4
BTL, buck up! If crazy Tom Cruise (5'6") can do it (Nicole Kidman -- at least 4 inches taller, and definitely longer arms), so can you.
Posted by jucope on August 24, 2010 at 6:34 PM · Report this
5
BTL, my boyfriend is 5'5'' and women flirt with him all the time! Confidence is more important than size, so work on your confidence!
Posted by rds on August 24, 2010 at 6:39 PM · Report this
6
Great column, Dan! Enough with the puppy-hating though, eh?
Posted by nyker on August 24, 2010 at 6:53 PM · Report this
7
I wonder if OPA is asexual? "Is that all there is" sounds like a common response of asexuals having sex.
Posted by Ace in Space on August 24, 2010 at 7:15 PM · Report this
8
@7 but there's no such thing as an asexual orientation, and you damn well know it.
Posted by REDIVE on August 24, 2010 at 7:29 PM · Report this
9
BTL, I'm a butch bi girl, and you sound like someone I'd be very attracted to. I happen to be short too, but I'm sure there are some tall bi (or even straight) girls out there who like the idea of being the "protective" partner as much as I do.
Posted by SkyHuxley on August 24, 2010 at 7:57 PM · Report this
10
My boyfriend and I are both around the same height though I'm practically twice his weight and can easily throw him over a shoulder. The gender reversal of bodytypes is a turnon for the both of us. So yes BTL, your type of woman really does exist. Now quit being such a scrotum and try hitting on some of them. Maybe scope one out at the gym by the weight training equipment?

As for barking up the wrong tree, Dan has taken a lot of flack for reminding us that butch women do sometimes switch teams. Maybe BTL will get luck with an ex-lesbian craving some dick.
Posted by ellbee on August 24, 2010 at 8:00 PM · Report this
11
Some women like short men (raises hand) but I already have one :)
Posted by jubjubbird on August 24, 2010 at 8:02 PM · Report this
12
For God's sake, OPA, do not, I repeat, DO NOT tell that woman that you were a virgin. Lie, lie, lie, tell her whatever she wants to hear, make up elaborate stories about fictional ex-girlfriends, but DO NOT let her know about your (ex) virginity.

Take it from me: It will instantly kill the relationship dead. The simple ugly truth is that American women find virgins over 20 or so "Creepy", and suspiction that you are gay or a pedophile will hang over you in her head every fucking second for the rest of the (short) relationship. It's nasty and it's not PC to say it, but honesty is definately not the best policy here. Women hate the feeling of getting stuck with something nobody else wanted.

Posted by Ex-Honest on August 24, 2010 at 8:20 PM · Report this
13
OPA: What do you mean by "she took it personally?" Was she upset with herself/her technique? Or was she upset with you for failing to come? (for example, she thought it was proof you weren't aroused by her.) In any event, she is going to need some reassurance to reconnect with you. Being up-front about your status as a virgin will help persuade her it truly isn't about her.

The upside is that if you don't come, you go... and go and go and go. No premature ejaculation for you! That's the other classic pitfall for virgins, who may find the unfamiliar situation or sensation causes them to lose control. Not you! What's not to like about that?

Okay so neither of you is wowed by the sensations produced by the combination of your/her technique. Cut yourselves some slack. You're a virgin -- or were recently enough. You don't mention, but I get the feeling she isn't very experienced either. You aren't supposed to be good at this yet. The good news is that it's a lot easier to refine your technique when you can keep going than when you're a one-pump chump.
Posted by avast2006 on August 24, 2010 at 8:30 PM · Report this
14
@12 - I imagine she will take it a lot worse to know that he felt HER performance was lackluster. When he could not, by definition, have any goddamn clue what he was doing. She finds out he's a virgin and was just shy to say? It's kinda cute. I can't think of a woman on this earth who wouldn't think that it was deeply flattering, or at least be tickled by it. And if you are going to be speaking for women in general, I think you'll find women prefer virgins to manwhores. He does need to know porn is not real though, sheesh. Can't men tell the women in porn are faking? Once he develops some skill at sex and is actually able to get her off, I think he'll find her supposedly underwhelming performance improves. I'm sure it was just a reaction to being off-put by his inexplicably poor performance - he explains it, she understands, and now can work on teaching him what he really needs to know to be good at sex.
Posted by gnot on August 24, 2010 at 8:36 PM · Report this
15
My grandmother was 5'10 and my grandfather was 5'2. And she owned dozens of pairs of heels
Posted by Snickerdoodly on August 24, 2010 at 8:39 PM · Report this
16
@ BTL: I don't understand why men go to bars and clubs to meet women and then complain because they don't attract the kind of women they're looking for. Generally in a bar or club you will be graded based on your height, your apparent gym time, and the amount of money you visibly put into your appearance. You've only got one out of three, at most.

Try taking up a physical activity such as cycling, running, or rock climbing. Anything that will boost your fitness and that can be done as part of a group (tons of running and cycling clubs out there). You will meet women who are strong, active,and confident, in a context where you can demonstrate that you are physically fit and capable. They will get their physical impression of you from your ability, not your height. Of course, if you're not fit, you'd better get that way.
Posted by SAH on August 24, 2010 at 8:40 PM · Report this
17
@ BTL: I don't understand why men go to bars and clubs to meet women and then complain because they don't attract the kind of women they're looking for. Generally in a bar or club you will be graded based on your height, your apparent gym time, and the amount of money you visibly put into your appearance. You've only got one out of three, at most.

Try taking up a physical activity such as cycling, running, or rock climbing. Anything that will boost your fitness and that can be done as part of a group (tons of running and cycling clubs out there). You will meet women who are strong, active,and confident, in a context where you can demonstrate that you are physically fit and capable. They will get their physical impression of you from your ability, not your height. Of course, if you're not fit, you'd better get that way.
Posted by SAH on August 24, 2010 at 8:42 PM · Report this
who cares what I call myself 18
@ 12 wait a minute.....my husband was a virgin until he was 28 because of a strong religious belief and he is certainly not "something nobody else wanted" , women hit on him all the time. Some people just bloom late, or change their goals as they mature, and there ain't nothing wrong with that. Sure, go ahead and lie if you just want a casual fling, but don't underestimate the importance of honesty in a long term relationship.
Posted by who cares what I call myself on August 24, 2010 at 8:58 PM · Report this
19
I think BTL should try looking somewhere else for girls - somewhere that they would be less likely to be in heels and more likely to be in flats.

If he can find a girl that is slightly shorter than him in flats, but can slap on some sexy heels and gain some inches on him, it might make an excellent compromise.

I'm sure there are plenty of women around the 5'5" mark who he can be physically attracted to that can also tower over him in the right shoes and the right situation.
Posted by clarient on August 24, 2010 at 9:37 PM · Report this
Siruya 20
For OPA, finding 'passion' and 'spark' as he words it, isn't about virginity. It's about the person he's with, and if he's clicking with her or not. And it sounds like he's not.
Posted by Siruya on August 24, 2010 at 9:56 PM · Report this
shurenka 21
My best lover was the same height as me... and that's only 5'4"! So, short(er) guys can definitely be very hot/sexy. I am not butch or tall myself, and can't vouch for the preferences of those ladies, but shortness should not be seen as a hangup for men. I'm sure a lot of tall girls out there (used to the reverse type of discrimination, in which men won't date taller women) would love a shorter, confident guy.
Posted by shurenka on August 24, 2010 at 10:09 PM · Report this
22
Confidence adds a few perceived inches in height (and other places) - so does being in shape, and not having an annoying voice, and dressing appropriately for your body type. Get involved in an activity you enjoy and are good at - somewhere the women are going to see YOU as the authority figure, even if it's just intellectual and only in your specific field. Women go for intelligent guys too - "protective" can come in many packages.
Posted by Slartibartfast on August 24, 2010 at 11:18 PM · Report this
23
@12 Speak for yourself! A friend of mine recently confessed he was a 28 year old virgin. At first he was waiting for the right girl, as he wanted his first time to be "meaningful" and then it just got to the point where he was embarrassed by it to the point of not seeking out romantic relationships. It took a lot of courage (and quite few adult beverages) for him to admit this to me and my girlfriends, but when he did, he was pleasantly surprised by our reaction -- which was for us to quickly start squabbling over who would get the privilege of deflowering him. To us, there was something very intriguing about being with somebody for their first time. This guy wasn't really my type under normal circumstances, but just knowing that he was a virgin made him appealing. With a virgin, you know that they're clean, and you know that you'll be giving them a special memory that they're never going to forget, and, best yet, you get to train them the right way, to teach them how to really please a woman (you in particular) without having to help them unlearn those bad habits straight men seem to pick up from porn and youthful sex with partners who are too inhibited to speak up when they don't like something.

Of course, he didn't choose me, but a few months later, my friend who did end up with him reports that he's now the best lover she's ever had and they have one of those nauseously adorable relationships that everybody loves to hate but really wants for themselves. And who knows if that would have ever happened had he not made that drunken confession about being one of those "creepy" virgins over 20.

@OTA I also just wanted to let you know that reportedly, their first time didn't go all that well and he didn't get off either (years of repetitive masturbation, I'm sure), even though they worked up to the "big moment" slowly over a period of weeks while they established a genuine emotional connection first. And he too had a similar "that's all there is?" reaction. But the first time is rarely ever that magic moment people seem to think it should be, whether you're 15 or 50. Keep working and communicate with your new girlfriend about your likes and dislikes, remembering that just because you're inexperienced doesn't mean that you don't have preferences, and it'll keep getting better over time, until she too is regaling her jealous friends with stories that'll blister their ears.
More...
Posted by Intrigued by Older Virgins on August 24, 2010 at 11:25 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 24
I find all the comments to BTL to "be more confident" as rather absurd.

Confidence is something that comes from success. If a man is tall and gets lots of women, he will likely exude confidence because he knows, from successful experience, he can get what he wants. If a man is short and doesn't get lots of women, how is he supposed to be confident? By pretending? Do women fall for fake confidence?

A short man is certainly handicapped, as Dan accurately explained, and will necessarily have to have more to offer than height. But I can't imagine faked confidence will really be a winner.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on August 24, 2010 at 11:49 PM · Report this
25
BTL, there are women out there for you. I'm a woman who likes guys I can be a little protective of. Although I *am* attractive to men with traditionally "tough" manly characteristics, I am also *equally* attracted to men with a bit of softer touch, who can be vulnerable and who want somebody to be protective of them. Of course, I don't look like a big tough gal. I'm a small slender girl, who's short by almost anybody's standards.

So, maybe you might want to keep an eye out, among the girls shorter than you, to see if there's one who catches your eye, exudes a bit of "tough" energy, and seems capable of making you feel secure and safe.
Posted by Brie on August 24, 2010 at 11:56 PM · Report this
26
STD, are you and your roommate sure that he has herpes? Because if all you're basing it on is one sore, that's stupid. Ever bitten your cheek? That shit doesn't go away for weeks. And being embarrassed about herpes is silly, too; they're doctors, it's their job. He should get tested and you both should relax.
BTL, my mom is 5'10" and ridiculously strong, even though she's pretty skinny and not that muscular. My dad's 5'3". It happens.
Posted by doodle4395 on August 24, 2010 at 11:57 PM · Report this
27
BTL, tall girl/short guy couples are mega cute so good luck!
Posted by lilechka on August 25, 2010 at 12:28 AM · Report this
28
I'm a 5'8" woman and my longest long-term relationship was with a man who was 5'4". When I wore heels, I could rest my chin on top of his head. He was not only confident in himself, but he was interesting (see Dan's advice to teenage boys about how to "be interesting") to talk to. Most of all though, he was incredibly sexy.
We eventually broke up due to issues not related to his height, but I still consider him the sexiest man I've been with.
Posted by BeingABear on August 25, 2010 at 1:02 AM · Report this
Sketch 29
I'm honestly confused by "Not A Cream Pie Lover Yet." Why is there even a problem? I mean, "oral is standard and any model that arrives without it should be returned to the lot," right? So why does Dan refer to his girlfriend as "kinky"? Does the mere fact of switching the order (vaginal sex first, then oral) turn oral from standard into kink?

I'm not being snarky, I'm actually confused.
Posted by Sketch on August 25, 2010 at 4:01 AM · Report this
30
Unless there is some definition of 'cream pie' I am missing - since when is going down on someone considered kinky and boundary pushing, even if it is post-penetration/ejaculation?
I also suspect that 'she does get off AGAIN' is incorrect - and the fact is - she's only getting off for the first time - hence the desire for him to do it all the time.
Posted by Vivic on August 25, 2010 at 4:10 AM · Report this
31
My grandfather was 5'2 and my grandmother was 6 feet. He always used to say "It takes a big man to love a tall woman." Which is true. You need to project outsize confidence. Very tall women get burned out on easily intimidated men -- you need to show that you're not easily intimidated.

Also, yeah, to pick up athletic chicks, pick up an athletic activity. Rock climbing is a good recommendation, as your short stature is an advantage.
Posted by drizzle89 on August 25, 2010 at 5:14 AM · Report this
32
Thanks for asking that, @29 (my thoughts exactly!), and @30, I think you hit the nail on the head. No further comment needed!
Posted by kayso on August 25, 2010 at 5:18 AM · Report this
33
@BTL - I agree with everyone else. My fiance is 5'6" and I'm 5'10". I always wanted big tall guys, but they were only interested in midget girls. When I met my fiance he was just too great to pass up just because of a height difference. He does hold himself well, he is fit and cut, and he's a wonderful person. A woman who rejects you just because you don't fit a physical mold is shallow and not worth being with. As are you if you are only looking for a particular physical type.
Posted by froggie on August 25, 2010 at 5:25 AM · Report this
Spikeygrrl 34
As a 5'10" woman, I can attest that sheerly by the law of averages 50% or more of the men one is likely to date will be shorter than onesself (last I looked, the average height for a male in the U.S.A. was 5'9", down from 5'10" two decades ago before the rapid increase in Hispanic immigration). To insist on "someone taller" masochistically eliminates 50% of the available dating pool!

Narrowing down further by close-cropped hair, "fullback shoulders," and strong angular facial features (I have several times over the years, usually in dim light, been mistaken for a cross-dresser), the dating pool narrows still further.

BTL, women like me are frequently DESPERATE for men like you: men who will not condemn us as unfeminine, or (worse) who just ass/u/me we're lesbian and never make that pass! Advice: Try the Personals, like I did (and have been happily married for ten years because of it). State your preferences clearly. This method allows you to quickly winnow out the unsuitables so you don't waste the next decade or three pickling yourself in alcohol and self-pity at singles bars.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!
Posted by Spikeygrrl on August 25, 2010 at 5:38 AM · Report this
35
Sorry dan, but you're just objectively wrong about Branden Hayward. I checked the internet. It said so.
Posted by danlover on August 25, 2010 at 5:40 AM · Report this
36
Good advice to OPA. I started dating again after a 12-year dry spell. Could not ejaculate. The earth was moving, but it was a series of micro-tremors. I'm old enough to not be bothered, just as it doesn't bother me that my lady only gets off with a vibrator. The Big One hit last weekend, after four months of tapering off. On our honeymoon. Maybe I was just saving myself for marriage.
Posted by david_42 on August 25, 2010 at 5:45 AM · Report this
37
i've always been interested in guys who're smaller than myself but i never thought a guy would like a "bigger" girl (5'5"/150lb). it turns out my 5'5"/125lb boyfriend likes to date "up" so i'm just lucky i guess.
also i'm kinda butch and he's kinda fem, we joke he's my girlfriend, i'm his boyfriend. he's very masculine in some ways - lifts weights, into martial arts- but he's not paranoid about it. so far as "wanting to feel secure," that does it for me. but i still like being the big spoon sometimes, makes me happy.
Posted by freefall on August 25, 2010 at 5:57 AM · Report this
38
I have issues with short men. I'm sure there are short men out there who are great guys. I've just never met any of them. Every short man I've ever met has been an insecure controlling jerk.

I have no advice. I was just wondering if other people have had the same experience that I've had.
Posted by DianeLGD on August 25, 2010 at 5:58 AM · Report this
39
@34 Did you have to stick this part into your comment?

"...down from 5'10" two decades ago before the rapid increase in Hispanic immigration."

This column has nothing to do with race. Why did you feel that it was necessary to stick that in there? People would have accepted the fact that the average height of men has gone down without demanding a reason why.
Posted by unnecessary racial identifier on August 25, 2010 at 5:58 AM · Report this
40
There has been a couple of burglars in the news who got caught in the act in a small Wa. town just this week. They were filming a self made porn and left their camera behind. I knew it was the right time of year, was it possible they were trying to get an entry together for HUMP? This seems like a possibility to me or were they just "thrill" seekers?
Posted by scorpio of Id. on August 25, 2010 at 6:16 AM · Report this
41
Ok - virgin-guy - calm down! Keep at it. You'll be fine. You're just more articulate than the rest of us were when we lost our virginities, but everyone has doubts and confusion initially. Give this girl a chance, too. It'll all get sorted out.

And short-guy - for sure - confidence. I prefer tall men, too - but I didn't marry one. I'd go for a guy who's 5'6" and relaxed and confident around me anyday over a guy who just happens to be tall.
Posted by Jenn on August 25, 2010 at 6:50 AM · Report this
42
@BTL, there are taller women who like shorter guys. I'm 5'8", usually wear heels and find shorter guys sooooo cute and sexy. So, keep looking. She si out there.
Posted by internationalmadeline on August 25, 2010 at 7:05 AM · Report this
43
@24: "Confidence is something that comes from success. If a man is tall and gets lots of women, he will likely exude confidence because he knows, from successful experience, he can get what he wants."

No, that's where cockiness comes from (either that or massive insecurity where the guy needs constant positive feedback from women in order to feel attractive). True confidence comes from a guy knowing he has value whether women want him or not. If a guy approaches me acting like he just expects me to be into him (because, hey, all the other women are), it's an instant turnoff (maybe not for every woman, but definitely for me). A guy who approaches me and makes actual conversation without it seeming like his entire ego is hanging on my reaction - now that's awesome.

So, yeah, note to guys: when women talk about "confidence", we don't mean loud PUA alpha-male dominant bullshit. We mean: get it into your head that you're a good guy with a lot to offer. Then get it into your head that people's taste in partners is fickle and rejection likely has nothing to do with you as a person. Then, develop good conversational skills and start talking to women instead of just hitting on them. This attitude is like CATNIP (and I should know...I too have cultivated this sort of confidence in recent years).

Besides which, it sounds like our short guy is a little bit subby, so if he wants to attract a slightly dominant tall woman it behooves him not to do the loud/commanding/obnoxious thing that so many people think of as "confidence". Just quietly knowing who he is and what he wants and knowing he has value will work wonders.

Topic change: wow, Virgin Guy sounds like a jackass. He admits he's desensitized his dick through deathgrip masturbation but then complains that a blowjob didn't feel as good as he expected? WELL DUH. Also, he obviously didn't give the girl any instructions or feedback, otherwise his complaint wouldn't have been "she wasn't very good," it would have been "I kept telling her to focus on the underside of the head but she ignored me."

So basically, he just lay there and let this poor girl fumble through the act blindly and now he's whining that she didn't magically guess what he wanted her to do. JACKASS.

More...
Posted by perversecowgirl on August 25, 2010 at 7:50 AM · Report this
44
@24: Confidence, in this case for this guy, means not being mopey about your height. That's all it is.

Confidence in general: Focusing on what makes you feel good, what IS sexy about you (everyone has something). This isn't fake confidence; it's just taking the time to base your attitude on something you do have.

Yeah, success helps confidence. But that's because it validates what a person should already know. It gives them assurance that they're right.

Most people don't have confidence not because they aren't successful but because they can't recognize they've got other shit to offer.
Posted by Gloria on August 25, 2010 at 8:25 AM · Report this
45
Oh yeah. Guess who's also a short guy? Jon Stewart (somewhere between 5'6" and 5'7"). And I'd fuck him in a heartbeat any day, anywhere.
Posted by Gloria on August 25, 2010 at 8:27 AM · Report this
46
"I have issues with short men. I'm sure there are short men out there who are great guys. I've just never met any of them. Every short man I've ever met has been an insecure controlling jerk.

"I have no advice. I was just wondering if other people have had the same experience that I've had."

If you listen to NPR, maybe you caught the This American Life of the short woman who underwent a sex-change, and her cool-quotient went from best of show to the bottom of the pile. She spent her time commenting on how no one warned her how on the streets it became fair game for men to just barrel into her.

Is this the kind of environment you want to continue to encourage with opinions like how you've posted them?
Posted by Mike Leung on August 25, 2010 at 8:38 AM · Report this
Mike in MO 47
29 & 30: the reason this is considered "boundary pushing" is because straight guys think any contact with jizz -even their own, even coming out of a freshly fucked pussy- will make them gay. Pretty silly yes, but we're talking about straight boys here.

To NACPLY: she's not crazy, she's a horny little minx; & you would be crazy not to enjoy a hot wet messy sloppy creampie pussy every chance you get!
Posted by Mike in MO on August 25, 2010 at 8:42 AM · Report this
48
OPA has also likely built it up beyond all reasonable expectations and has decided it's her fault things didn't measure up. Most couples, experienced or not, don't have great sex the first time together. And def not if they are virgins. And I doubt it was great for her either. Drop the unrealistic expectations and concentrate on learning what you don't know, which should be just about everything.
Posted by gnot on August 25, 2010 at 8:44 AM · Report this
49
BTL, I am 5'11", broad shoulders, pretty, athletic, prefer guys who are shorter than me, and am definitely the 'caretaker' in my relationship with my 5'8" boyfriend. He is actually several inches taller than my last boyfriend, who was a good 6" shorter than me. So just more proof that tall, strong women who like to take care of their shorter, smaller boyfriends do exist.

That being said, however, I'm a little worried about all the advice about "being confident". Sure, nobody wants to date an insecure, needy person, but you should also be really careful to avoid "short man syndrome" where short guys become aggressive, muscle-bound, controlling assholes in an effort to compensate for the perceived inadequacy of being short. So by all means, feel good about yourself and the things that you're good at, but don't go overboard in the "project confidence" direction.

Good luck at finding the tall protectress you're looking for!
Posted by Amazonia on August 25, 2010 at 8:47 AM · Report this
50
And OPA, even if she doesn't know you were a virgin, you can be sure she knows something is pretty damn off. Your lack of experience would be obvious, and without an explanation, at 30? She needs to know so she can go about teaching you without having to dance around your already irrational ego.
Posted by gnot on August 25, 2010 at 8:48 AM · Report this
51
STD: Herpes is not as easily passed as you seem to think. Once the virus lands on a surface that's not the right level of moisture and warmth (i.e., once it leaves the person's skin), it dies pretty quickly. So your bathroom is not a nest of herpes just waiting to latch onto you. You're VERY unlikely to catch it from your roommate unless you make out with him. I guess if you take a swig of his beer immediately after he drinks from the bottle while he has a sore, that might do the job too. Your doctor HAD to tell you they "can't rule it out" because there's a tiny, tiny, tiny chance it could happen, and because (like the majority of the population) you might have been walking around with this virus for years but not seeing symptoms, or you might still catch it from somebody other than your roommate, or you might eventually get a mouth sore NOT caused by herpes, and they don't want you to yell at them and call them liars and threaten legal action if a sore does pop up.

BTL: I'm a tall woman who hasn't dated a taller guy since high school. I really don't give a shit about height, but I usually end up dating/fucking shorter guys because the tall ones don't want me, they want tiny women who make THEM feel secure in their manliness. There's nothing so confidence boosting as a man (of any size) who finds my height attractive. Keep hitting on the Amazons. A lot of them are sick of being dismissed by men because of their size. A lot of them will find it hot that you don't treat them that way.
Posted by ElleC on August 25, 2010 at 8:56 AM · Report this
52
OPA: The fact that you don't care for your girlfriend's kissing style is a bigger red flag than the fact you didn't climax the first time you did the deed. You should've waited to jump into bed with her! This relationship's probably going nowhere, unless you two can be honest about your needs and expectations, and BOTH of you can be flexible with each other while you talk things out.

When I met my husband, he had never masturbated. He'd slept with one other woman, but he had no idea how to get himself off. He WAS, however, an excellent kisser. I saw that as a sign that he had potential in the bedroom. We read books together about how to give each other pleasure, experimented a lot together, and talked a lot (while we were fully clothed) about our needs and desires in the bedroom. I also encouraged him to do whatever it took to learn how to pleasure himself. It took a while, but the payoff has been huge.

Congratulations on waiting to lose your virginity, assuming that's what you wanted to do--but now you have some catching up to do! The most important sexual organ is between your ears, not between your legs.
Posted by My Name Here on August 25, 2010 at 9:05 AM · Report this
unknown_entity 53
To OPA: I was in a similar situation 3 years ago losing my virginity in my mid twenties (awkward sex, no orgasm, frustration and insecurity afterwards). And for weeks afterwards, sex was still more frustrating than fun, with both of us feeling lots of pressure to perform which was a serious turn off. What turned things around for us was being GGG, taking turns deciding the combination location, position, and/or fantasy. The novelty of trying new things and the exploration has made the sex great and we both feel relieved that we can bring up our fantasies without fear of automatic rejection.
The bottom line is this: The challenges you are facing are normal for people, regardless of what age they lose their virginity. Spend time with your gf learning what gets each of you off, and things can turn around.
Posted by unknown_entity on August 25, 2010 at 9:11 AM · Report this
54
BTL, don't waste your time trying to convince women who think you're too short that you're worthy of their time. Instead, look for women who are secure enough to think they don't need a he-man to protect them. We're out here, though we aren't exactly shouting it from the rafters, since that sort of attitude scares a lot of guys off.

Also, if you have any sort of inferiority complex about your height, get that taken care of before you seek the woman of your dreams. Women can sniff out a "woe is me" attitude a mile away, and it's extremely unattractive.

Good luck to you! It sounds like you'll find what you want, if you look long enough. (Tried online dating? It might be a good way to weed out the "I only want a man who's five inches taller than me" crowd.)
Posted by My Name Here on August 25, 2010 at 9:14 AM · Report this
55
#29, I think "Not A Cream Pie Lover Yet" wanted to know if what he's doing is "normal" sexual behavior or not. Whatever that means... If he's not comfortable with it, he needs to be talking with his girlfriend, not asking Dan Savage if his girlfriend is weird.
Posted by My Name Here on August 25, 2010 at 9:22 AM · Report this
56
OPA, if you care about your "new girlfriend" and want to build a relationship with her, try communicating and learning what she likes. If you can drive her wild, then you'll experience more passion in return. But from your letter, it sounds like you're not crazy about her. Don't stay with her just because she'll do you. Go find someone who you *want* to screw.
Posted by EricaP on August 25, 2010 at 9:32 AM · Report this
57
Herpes Dog: the guy says the roomie with the sore had an STD and was embarrassed to seek medical attention, and that he is worried about contracting it sharing a bathroom, not a kitchen--that means it was on his DICK. Maybe? The dog only licked his MOUTH. I hope.

@26: a bitten cheek? really? don't people with sores from biting remember the excruciating moment when it began? HSV sores usually form on the lips (it is herpes labialis after all) and not the cheek.

Everyone, some basics: herpes simplex virus 1 is usually oral, is very common in older adults (~80%) but less common in the young (~40%). HSV2 is usually genital, and about 20% of college aged people have it. Only 10% know it. Both classically cause clustered vesicles on a reddish base that later ulcerate. Initial infection can cause swollen glands and fever and is usually worse than subsequent ones. HSV1 recurs less than 2. You can get either one on your mouth or on your junk. Since fewer kids have HSV1 they're now at risk for getting it on their junk from oral sex and HSV1 is now the most common cause of genital ulcers in some locations in the USA, not HSV2. In the end, chill out--it's common, and you're going to kiss or lay someone who's had it unless you lead a very sheltered life. Since people shed virus when they have no symptoms, you may get herpes, even genital herpes, from someone with no sore, even no history of sores, even a virgin who just got HSV1 from her mom as an infant. That's just life.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/hsv2…
Posted by yonush18 on August 25, 2010 at 10:07 AM · Report this
58
Some people are too rough on OPA, the early 30's just devirginned guy who blamed his date's technique, but actually believes his years of death-grip masturbation caused his failure to climax. He should take stock of his own condition. Being early 30 and just deflowered is not a good position. It could have been worse, he could have shot off way early, and he might feel more inadequate. He should turn his failure to come around into an advantage. He should henceforth concentrate his sexual efforts at making the girl come, not himself. If he does come, fine. If he doesn't he should still focus on stimulating her. When he isn't actively fucking her, he should take interest in what she is interested in. Forget the unsolicited confession, take the lead at tackling her thresholds. She might want to stick around, and help him with his "problem".
Posted by Hunter78 on August 25, 2010 at 10:57 AM · Report this
John Horstman 59
I think a lot of the responses to BLT (excepting @34) are reading too much into the height thing and missing the primary issue. As someone who is into butch(ish) women, in my experience that's a pretty large barrier all by itself. Straight(ish) women tend to buy-into normative gender roles, because that's what's going to give them the greatest odds of both dating and professional success, whereas lesbians, having already rejected a primary facet of normative female/woman gender, as statistically less-likely to buy-into it (I'm not saying that all or even most lesbians are butch, or that all or even most butch women are gay; I'm saying the percentage of butch women who are gay is higher than the percentage of women who are gay in the general population, and that a small percentage of women in the general population are butch; this makes straight-and-butch women especially rare).

Of course, you DO want to make yourself as hot as possible, given the small dating pool you're self-selecting.

Also butch and/or tall women don't necessarily want to be "the protector", so if that's your primary concern, you may want to widen your search; there may be some mostly-femme shorter women out there whose one butch trait is that they DO want to be the protector. Hell, that's a major aspect of normative motherhood, which is the single most-acceptable (most-celebrated, most-enforced) role for women. You should look into dating Tea Party women; Palin's been on her "momma bear" kick ever since FOX declared her the new leader of Feminism... *shudder*

@52: How is knowing/not knowing how to kiss someone in a way that they like a better indicator of sexual potential than knowing/not knowing how to fuck them in a way that they like? All of these are learned behaviors. If someone's a lousy lay, in one's opinion, it's entirely possible to teach him/her to do what works for one. The only important factor here is a willingness to learn how to do and then actually do the things that get one off. Granted there's a certain aspect of creativity, engagement, and empathy that can't be taught, but those tie into that whole willingness-to-please thing that is the factor of primary importance.

And don't worry about hurting someone's feelings: if your partner if actively interested in being a good lover for you, s/he's going to WANT to know if sex isn't working for you and how to make it better; if not, then s/he's probably not someone you want to be fucking anyway. If s/he is so insecure that s/he is going to freak out at any criticism, s/he's really not healthy enough to be dating anyway. That's a self-esteem issue s/he needs to deal with irrespective of what's going on in his/her relationship.
More...
Posted by John Horstman on August 25, 2010 at 10:59 AM · Report this
samanthaf63 60
Younger folks often forget that there are MUCH better places to meet people than bars or clubs. Follow a hobby or passion (hiking, bicycling, Chinese cooking, poetry or whatever lifts your luggage) and then try chatting up some of the ladies you fancy. You'll automatically have something in common to start talking about.
Posted by samanthaf63 on August 25, 2010 at 11:05 AM · Report this
61
@52 Kissing style a red flag?
Look, you can work on anything if it bugs you, kissing style included. I'm fairly certain that it is NOT a deal breaker, as I am marrying a man whose kissing style I was not thrilled with. But we've managed to reach a happy place since.
My advice to the virgin is, relax, stop masturbating for a week or two, and try again.
Also, I assume you were wearing a condom, which is probably quite a shock after having bare-skin death-grip fun time for so long.
Also, experiment with different things. There's a book out there somewhere about tips for straight women from gay men. Taught me all I know about BJs and might help in your case as well. But you should also buy an equivalent book on pleasing a woman, or at least see what she likes, cuz you don't want to be that douche that just thinks that sticking his cack in a woman gets her off.
Posted by eatmybeet on August 25, 2010 at 11:08 AM · Report this
62
BTL, I'm a girl like the type you're looking for, and I adore guys like you. Of course, these guys don't hit on me because they think I'm a lesbian. So don't count out some girls just because of how they look!
Posted by terrierchica http://terrierchica.blogspot.com on August 25, 2010 at 12:17 PM · Report this
63
Jeesh,
kissing technique, oral sex, even PIV sex - all this gets better with PRACTICE! I highly doubt most women are fantastic at blow jobs right off.

Most of the virgin, teen-aged guys I fucked didn't come the first time. But they did the second time. It happened often enough that I thought this was normal.
Posted by too lazy to register yet on August 25, 2010 at 12:19 PM · Report this
64
@38, It's so odd to me that you have experienced short guys as being insecure controlling jerks. The short guys I know have been sweet and sexy. I married one. Actually, I'm naturally attracted to tall guys, but they can be so obnoxious because they're used to getting just what they want all the time. Spare me from tall, handsome guys! I'm sure some of them are sweet, but too many of the ones I've met have been overconfident, inconsiderate jerks.
Posted by my display name on August 25, 2010 at 12:58 PM · Report this
65
BTL, I'm six feet tall and my husband is 5'7". Look for women who have been around the block dating-wise. They are the ones most likely to be over the I-want-someone-taller-than-me kick.

My hubby floored me with his beautiful smile, gentle demeanor and calm, quiet confidence. I went from dating linebacker types to marrying a man significantly smaller than me and being blissed out. We both love going out with me in high heels, just to laugh at people trying to hide their shock. She's out there. Good luck!
Posted by MistressRo on August 25, 2010 at 1:02 PM · Report this
66
I'm 5'10" and don't mind being with guys shorter than me. I'm sure some, although not all, tall women feel the same way. Some short(ish) guys are much hotter than some tall guys, period. And if I were to rule out any guy who doesn't match my height when I'm wearing heels, I would be ruling out more than half of all available men, which I'm not interested in doing. (Although the point is moot, because I already have a boyfriend, an inch or two shorter than me.) When I was single, the biggest height-related problem I had was that a lot of guys seemed to want only smaller, shorter women. They were either intimidated by a taller gal, or assumed I wouldn't be interested (and made insecure comments about "I feel so short standing next to you!").

There will be tall women out there who will be delighted to find that you're interested in them. Especially if you project confidence & have good posture. And don't make a bunch of comments about "how tall are you?!", this makes people feel self-conscious.

The reasons other commenters have given for not meeting women in bars strike me as ridiculous. Yes, women in bars will be wearing heels and will be judging you largely on looks -- but isn't the point to find a woman who DOESN'T CARE about your height?!
Posted by Gudrun Brangwen on August 25, 2010 at 1:34 PM · Report this
lewlew 67
I'm crazy about short guys. Nothin' cuter!

You people who make babies, please make more shorties! Even the Earth will thank you.
Posted by lewlew on August 25, 2010 at 1:37 PM · Report this
68
#59, I read a study a while back that concluded if a couple's first kiss isn't a memorable moment, they're less likely to go on to become a successfull, long-term couple.

Apart from that, if the recently-deflowered guy can't even encourage his girlfriend to kiss him the way he likes to be kissed, how likely is it that he'll be able to (gasp) talk with her about what each of them desires when the clothes come off? I taught a few guys how to kiss better before I met my husband, and it was fun! I'll never forget the guy who taught me how to French kiss properly, either.
Posted by My Name Here on August 25, 2010 at 1:48 PM · Report this
69
(Er, "successful." Mercy.)
Posted by My Name Here on August 25, 2010 at 1:49 PM · Report this
70
BTL sounds like a whiny, overly picky asshole, which is probably why he isn't getting girls. Probably has nothing to do with his height.
Posted by MichelleZB on August 25, 2010 at 2:37 PM · Report this
71
Sexyist Man Alive = Eddie Vedder 5'7"
Posted by TheOtherWoman on August 25, 2010 at 2:37 PM · Report this
72
@47: I can't speak for anyone else but for me, the thought of going down on a woman post-ejaculation is mildly revolting. It's got nothing to do with being afraid that "any contact with jizz...will make [me] gay", or whatever. I just don't particularly like the taste of my own semen. (I assume I'd have the same response to someone else's semen, but I'm not planning to find out!)

For some reason, mixing it with vaginal secretions makes it worse, i.e. ripe. Maybe if I were Napoleon (who famously wrote Josephine "Don't wash, I'm coming!" when he was still a month from home) it'd be different, but I'm not.

That said, I'd probably do it if a girl really wanted me to. But generally I'm turned off by cumshots, cum play, and the whole creampie thing. Heck, if I could learn to orgasm without ejaculating, I'd be thrilled; one of my least favorite parts about masturbation is cleanup!

(Strange thing is, I'm totally fine with giving oral during a girl's period.)
Posted by Je ne suis pas Napoleon Bonaparte on August 25, 2010 at 3:24 PM · Report this
73
I'd be willing to bet that the reason "Not a Cream Pie Lover" has to give his GF post-coital head is because he doesn't take the time to get her off beforehand.
Posted by D-U-N on August 25, 2010 at 3:52 PM · Report this
74
Hey, Dan, long-time reader first time SL writer.
Scared To Death's concern about contracting herpes from his roomie is a valid one. Following a shower taken many years ago a careless roomie of mine used my towel, transferring her vaginally-placed virus to my then-damp towel and subsequently to my dick when I unknowingly used that same towel she'd used hours earlier. Her virality was later confirmed by her girlfriend with all other possible forms of transmission ruled out going back a few months, well beyond herpes' dormancy period. Uncommon, sure, but entirely within reason according to all I read and to one doctor I knew. From that day I became the only person I've spoken with about it to have contracted herpes w/o any fun associated with the getting of it.
Posted by NoFunContracting on August 25, 2010 at 3:53 PM · Report this
75
lovely column, only i think you mean lazarus, the non zombie one outside the rich man's house, when you refer to dogs licking open sores
Posted by sallybobally on August 25, 2010 at 3:55 PM · Report this
76
Celebrity crush suggestion for Dan: Alexander Skarsgard ("Eric Northman" in "True Blood" on HBO). A beautiful, beautiful hunk of man who does not wear a sock during nude scenes (cause he's Swedish and loves to be naked). Thank you, Jeebus for Alex.
Posted by wtfwjd on August 25, 2010 at 6:07 PM · Report this
77
I just need to espouse my love of Dan Savage for reposting my video attacking the Westboro Baptist Church on his blog. I suspect that generous act is how the video ended up on the front page of the Huffington Post, Buzzfeed, Dallasvoice, barstoolsports, democraticunderground, and for some reason nationalgun.

Dan Savage is responsible for more orgasms than wine coolers and low self esteem combined.
Posted by Sirus on August 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM · Report this
78
I have tried dating guys shorter than me over and over and over, and every single one starts giving me sour looks when I put on my high heels and say things like, "Why do you WANT to wear those?" and "Any girl who truly cared about me wouldn't try to be taller than me."

Seriously, I will choose my shoes over you every time. Because if you're too insecure to date a girl taller than you, you are way too insecure to deal with my aggression and I'm better than watering myself down for a sackless wonder.
Posted by ladyrockess on August 25, 2010 at 8:28 PM · Report this
Pmasp 79
"who does he think he is? Job?" OMG I'm LOLing!
Posted by Pmasp on August 25, 2010 at 8:38 PM · Report this
80
I need my guys to be taller than me, which is never an issue because I'm a short woman and even 5' 6" is taller than I am, but I can't stand them being TOO tall. I love to look at tall guys, but can't date them because it's too intimidating. All my guys have been shorter than average.
Posted by shortstuff on August 25, 2010 at 8:57 PM · Report this
81
Dan, if I recall correctly, it was Lazarus with the dogs-licking-open-sores thing, not Job.

[/years of Catholic guilt manifesting in lots of Bible trivia]
Posted by AJV on August 25, 2010 at 9:00 PM · Report this
82
Anecdotal evidence of short man/tall woman working. I'm 5'3" and overweight (though beefy). She's 5'11" and a long distance runner, 10 years my junior. We've been together more than five years, and the height differential never entered into the equation.
Posted by Alefiend on August 25, 2010 at 9:41 PM · Report this
83
@78, my husband is kinda that way. He isn't an asshole about it or anything, but when we started dating, he was kinda jokey-but-not-really about not wanting me to wear heels and make him look shorter. He's not *that* short - 5'9"ish and I'm 5'8". He had only dated short girls before.

Hindsight, I would never have gotten that started. I tried not to wear my heels around him (and we worked in the same area), and was self-conscious when I did, instead of feelin' the shoe power, and then pregnancy and yadda yadda...I haven't worn my best shoes in a long time. Yeah, I definitely should have gone with "hey, but you get to walk around with me looking awesome" and let him get used to it. Maybe it's not too late.
Posted by CLDG on August 25, 2010 at 10:11 PM · Report this
Danrilor 84
The tsunami of dog defenders is bound to be more entertaining than the column, which is a shame because the advice was top notch this week. Seattle is one dog-loving city, and I mean that in the worst possible way.
Posted by Danrilor on August 25, 2010 at 10:18 PM · Report this
85
OPA, it's no wonder your gal didn't seem to "shine" in her bedroom performance with you.. Nothing brings a girl from red hot to lukewarm like an unenthusiastic response from her partner. I agree that sometimes it takes practice to get into a groove with someone sexually, but it seems like you need to adopt some reckless abandon with a quickness and roll out the red carpet for her to do the same. I guarantee it'll prove more fun than your death-grip masturbation.
Posted by lovelyluna on August 25, 2010 at 10:20 PM · Report this
86
BTL should remember that although most women *prefer* tall men, that doesn't necessarily mean that being short, or even shorter than her, is a deal-breaker. It just depends on what else you bring to the table.
Posted by Diagoras on August 25, 2010 at 10:39 PM · Report this
87 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
88
@75 -- Nope, Job is Old Testament. And boy howdy, does that story involve open sores.
Posted by uglytshirt on August 25, 2010 at 11:12 PM · Report this
Yevgeniy 89
OPA should calm the fuck down. it took me quite a lot of practice to learn and start to enjoy sex with my 1st gf.

what is a red flag from HER side is that "she took it personally". the bitch couldnt give a virgin guy a fucking break for his 1st time?
Posted by Yevgeniy on August 26, 2010 at 3:27 AM · Report this
Sketch 90
@47 Thanks for explaining. Yes, it does strike me as silly. Let's hope Dan's reply will reassure NACPLY.

@75 Nope, Dan got it right. Job. Jesus healed Lazarus from a slight case of death, but Job was left to suffer (after his entire family was killed and he lost everything he had) so God could win a bet with Satan.

(Job later got new stuff and a new family, but that doesn't really help the one that way killed...)
Posted by Sketch on August 26, 2010 at 5:46 AM · Report this
91
Once again, thoroughly boring letters, though the one that gingerly approaches bestiality held some promise.

And I never had a prob w/short dudes until Tom Cruise opened his stupid ignorant mouth.
Posted by wayne on August 26, 2010 at 5:59 AM · Report this
92
I strongly recommend taking up co-ed kayaking, canoeing and/or rowing. You're sitting down,so any height differential can be minimized, can talk to someone and get to know her, and get the girls who like to hang with guys (as opposed to all-female groupings) and are into their own upper-body strength. Give it a whirl!
Posted by HRH on August 26, 2010 at 6:10 AM · Report this
93
@78, Lady, I'm with you (and others) on the high-heels. We'd been married a year or so when my wife (5'8) asked if I (5'7) minded if she wore heels. Of course, I told her to wear what makes her feel good. No further problem.
Coming from a long line of short people, I grew up near an uncle whose wife always wore heels, which made her taller. She always looked great and he loved it.
Recently, our daughter (22, 5'7) dressed to go partying with her bf (5'5), looking very hot in a short dress and heels. But when asked, bf's choice was that she try not to "tower" over him. Hmmm, could be trouble. She didn't really like dressing "down."
Posted by nosebetter on August 26, 2010 at 7:40 AM · Report this
94
I have a good friend who's about 5'5" and - this is the important part - both considerate and fearlessly self-confident when talking to women (and knows how to be just inside the Napoleon-complex-cockiness that women hate). It's stunningly successful on women both short and tall. Women may want tall men at first glance, but they also want an alpha male with a soft side. Work on this and the world (or 51% of it) will fall at your feet.
Posted by Thinkerer on August 26, 2010 at 8:05 AM · Report this
95
Dude, you've got to re-brand yourself as "compact".
Posted by Krunch on August 26, 2010 at 8:33 AM · Report this
96
Speaking for cream-pies, 2 good things: she gets off and sleeps in a smaller wet spot. Buddy, it's your mess; why should she have to deal with it EVERY time? I think your relationship would work best if she makes it clear, or you volunteer, that you do clean-up every time unless she says not.
Posted by nosebetter on August 26, 2010 at 8:33 AM · Report this
97
BTL: as a woman over 6 feet tall, I can tell you that most women do like men who make us feel secure, but rarely has a man's height made me feel secure. His emotional maturity, his social grace, his attention and respect, and his own personal success (financial and professional stability, etc) are all much more important. It may take you a bit longer to get their attention, but once you have it, your height is no longer part of the equation. Good luck!
Posted by visitor100 on August 26, 2010 at 9:42 AM · Report this
98
@78 I know exactly what you mean. My high school years were full of guys who showed some interest until they discreetly (well, they tried to be discreet) sidled up next to me to see if they were at lesat AS tall as me, and then I would never hear fromth em again.

At 5'11" I've consistently dated guys within an inch of my, hieght, but all onthe shorter side of the range.

SO many of my female friedns couldn't belive it when I went with heels at my wedding, but I've long since stopped caring, and my husband is equally unbothered.
Posted by Atumornamedmarla on August 26, 2010 at 10:06 AM · Report this
99
There seems to be a big problem with reading comprehension re BTL's situation. He's not a short guy who wants to convince tall women that he can protect them, he's a short guy who wants a tall woman to protect HIM. So all this advice about getting fit & projecting confidence is not really to the point. It's interesting that people get so mired in cultural stereotypes (man protector, woman insecure) that they can't even see something else when it's right there in front of them.
Posted by Tee-hee on August 26, 2010 at 10:45 AM · Report this
mariaw 100
I bet that 15 years ago no man who had just had sex for the first time would ever question his partner's technique, appearance or anything else. OPA, you need to worry about your own shortcomings because as a 30 year old virgin, I'm sure they are many. (Sorry if too mean, but you need a reality check)
Posted by mariaw on August 26, 2010 at 11:10 AM · Report this
Leslie N. 101
BTL, yet another straight butch woman. I'm only twenty, so I'm not too concerned, but I've never been in a serious relationship. I'm too butch, too tall (5'11"), or both. While I like taller guys, I don't exclude short guys either.

Read #34, especially the last paragraph. Butch straight women have basically been told that we're not feminine and pretty much undesirable. Or that we're lesbian. Lesbian? I've got some wonderful lesbian friends, but I'm not one.

My life would be easier if I were a lesbian, sometimes. I've been asked out three times by lesbians. Zilch for guys. I'd welcome a guy who not only approaches me, but is actually still interested after realizing I'm taller.
Posted by Leslie N. on August 26, 2010 at 11:48 AM · Report this
102
OPA sounds like, as he fears, an asshole. He's only worried about what she can do for him. (Are his oral skills spectacular?) Good sex is a *mutual* experience.
Posted by Mary Mary Why You Buggin on August 26, 2010 at 12:09 PM · Report this
103
I'm a bi woman whose current (male) lover is 5'4", same height as me, and he is not only the best lover I've ever had, but also confident, interesting, funny, smart, loving and considerate. I wouldn't trade him for any 6' bore of either sex! I just love him for who he is. And in bed, we "fit" amazingly well.
Posted by Fleur-de-lys on August 26, 2010 at 2:36 PM · Report this
104
Right on advice as usual, Dan! Loved your response to OPA.
Posted by auntie grizelda on August 26, 2010 at 3:55 PM · Report this
105
I had what I thought was a herpes outbreak, even though my bf and I had been tested before and were negative, and went to my gyno who confirmed it was herpes, and then ordered some lab tests. I had the telltale skin sensations before it broke out, and it was really painful. She took a swab sample and blood tests (IgM and IgG) and the results showed it wasn't herpes, but a shingles outbreak. It's important to get to the doctor so you can get diagnosed accurately, a lot of things can look like herpes.
Posted by Maarlin on August 26, 2010 at 4:39 PM · Report this
106
Wasn't able to read every single comment, but am puzzled that nobody seemed to mention OPA sending nude photos of himself to Dan.

Yeah, he's "claiming" that was "to get read". Uh Huh.

Or maybe there's a reason beyond masturbation technique for why OPA is a 30 year-old virgin and doesn't even climax at all during his first sexual encounter.

I realize Dan has to take OPA at LW value, but I'm thinking, perhaps OPA, isn't really straight? I would ask what his fantasies/porn images were while he masturbated for 18+ years.
Posted by xweatie on August 26, 2010 at 6:17 PM · Report this
ScaryMara 107
BTL: I am your dream woman. For serious. I just hung up a shelf. Using a drill AND a hammer. Also, I am tall-ish.
Posted by ScaryMara on August 26, 2010 at 8:29 PM · Report this
108
I'm 5'9" and dated a guy who was about 5'2" -- no problem when we were alone, but this was in South America (where gender roles were stricter and women my height exceedingly rare), and the stares got so bad he wouldn't even hold my hand in public -- said he felt like a little kid walking with his mom. The incessant teasing of his friends didn't help either. Women, if you date short guys, make sure their friends aren't douchebags.
Gloria @ 45 -- Jon Stewart is 5'6"? But he projects such height! He had Arcade Fire on a while back and Win Butler just TOWERED over him -- thinking that JS was over 6 feet, I thought WB must be a freak of nature.
@67 -- no, the earth will not appreciate the making of ANY more babies, even short ones.
Posted by danfan on August 26, 2010 at 8:47 PM · Report this
Roma 109
Most women prefer men who are taller than they are. It's a sad, unavoidable fact, BTL, one you'll have to accept...

Very true. Height is, without question, the single most important physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women. (And then women turn around and condemn men for caring about how much women weigh, even though a person can do something about their weight, whereas a person can't do anything about their height.)

A good friend on mine who's gay was visiting from the East Coast a few years ago and I happened to mention this to him. He thought I was full of shit and I had a hard time convincing him otherwise. Then he went back home and ended up asking every woman he knew if height mattered to them. He called me and said "I apologize. You were right. Every woman I talked to except one said she wouldn't date a man unless he was taller than her. And the one exception said that the man had to be at least as tall as her. Some women said he had to be at least 3-4" taller."
Posted by Roma on August 26, 2010 at 10:24 PM · Report this
kinseythree 110
I'm a tall, butch, protective, bi woman and I don't give a shit about height. Short people are the cutest! The only thing that's a turnoff for me is incessant whining about your real or perceived flaws. My partner is a short guy and he views his height as a positive feature rather than a defect. This is what people mean by 'have self-confidence.'

I don't tend to hang around in (straight) bars or clubs. They mostly seem to attract shallow people with rigid gender-based expectations. The demographic rejecting BTL would consider me freakish for similar reasons. BTL should look for butch chicks at other types of venues, such as ones related to traditionally masculine hobbies.

I suspect the taller guy requirement some women have is part sexism, part insecurity, and possibly a bit of size queen-ism. We have that shitty smaller-is-better beauty ideal, and a tall man would make a woman look smaller. There also seems to be a misconception that a man's height has anything to do with penis size. From what I've seen, men's height is to dick size as women's height is to boob size. You can't assume anything.
Posted by kinseythree on August 27, 2010 at 6:29 AM · Report this
111
@108: It's the suit. (Well, the indignant, sarcastic anger helps too.)

@109: I was already aware of that, so I can't believe I JUST realized why there tends to be so many more white guy/Asian girl couples rather than white girl/Asian guy couples.

And while I get what you mean about the immutability about height, weight is something that can fluctuate due to all kinds of factors, and pretty much inevitably goes up with time if you don't fight it, whereas height is fixed (well, until into old, old age) ... so if someone hooks up with you regardless of your height, at least they won't leave you for that reason.

You don't have to work out three times a week to maintain your height, or worry that one day you'll wake up two inches shorter and your SO suddenly has a reason to find you unattractive.
Posted by Gloria on August 27, 2010 at 8:25 AM · Report this
Roma 112
Gloria, I've little doubt that women wanting taller men is a big reason for the difference you mentioned in white/Asian couples.

As far as weight fluctuating due to all kinds of factors, the two main factors are diet and exercise. If shorter guys knew they could gain height, and therefore become appealing to more women, by eating healthy and getting a lot of exercise, I suspect that many would do that.

I've asked a lot of women why a taller man is that important to them. The answer is usually either "he makes me feel more safe and secure" or "he make me feel more feminine", or both.

There's nothing wrong with women only wanting to date taller men. Just like there's nothing wrong with a man only wanting to date Asian women or a woman only wanting to date black men. We all have our preferences. I just get tired of women criticizing men for wanting women who aren't overweight while giving a pass to all their sisters who want men who are tall.

Posted by Roma on August 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM · Report this
Fastkarate 113
Too all the tall/butchy women, don't doubt yourself for a second! It makes me sad to see so many girls here sayin' guys won't give them the time of day. I've spent my whole life crushing on all sorts of tall, strong, short haired gals. I'm pretty tall, so I had the benefit of not dealing with height concerns, but I was out there! And tons of other guys are too! Maybe they just need to speak the fuck up. I never found it particularly harder to talk to a woman like that. After all, that's what I wanted! So why be intimidated?
Posted by Fastkarate http://www.daveandjoel.com on August 27, 2010 at 2:54 PM · Report this
114
To BTL! We are out there... I am a 5'10" tall straight woman...I like shorter men...his face level closer to my cleavage level is a bonus in my books...unfortunately the men in the area prefer tiny women and find me rather intimidating (I have fairly broad shoulders for a girl)so I don't get asked out much.
I wish you the best of luck! :)

Posted by beec on August 27, 2010 at 4:22 PM · Report this
Roma 115
113/Fastkarate: Maybe they just need to speak the fuck up.

But most of them won't. Most would rather lament that men don't take the initiative with them (a typical example: the post below yours where a woman says "I don't get asked out much.") or chastise men for their lack of self-confidence or fear of rejection instead of being confident themselves, overcoming their own fear of rejection, and putting themselves out there.
Posted by Roma on August 27, 2010 at 4:56 PM · Report this
Fastkarate 116
Actually, I was saying the guys need to get off their asses. Yeah, but fair, takes two people to flirt. I probably would've phrased it with way less bitterness, though...
Posted by Fastkarate http://www.daveandjoel.com on August 27, 2010 at 5:57 PM · Report this
Roma 117
Yes, guys and women need to get off their asses, have confidence, risk rejection and go up and talk to people they're interested in. Thing is, most guys will do this; most women won't. More people would connect, I believe, if both sexes made the effort.

Posted by Roma on August 27, 2010 at 9:03 PM · Report this
118
@117: Multiple studies and a hell of a lot of anecdotal evidence indicate that for many women, what gets them hotter than anything else is the feeling of being wanted. (That is, by someone whom they find attractive and WANT to want them.)

Taking the initiative short-circuits that, somehow; what you gain in agency, you lose as an object of desire. As a friend once said to me:

"Ask him out? No way! Look, he's supposed to want me, and I get to decide whether he's good enough. That's the way it's supposed to work."

Of course that's a totally narcissistic attitude, but so is much of human behavior, both male and female. It's kind of like how many people expect their spouses/partners to read their minds when they're mad or want something. If they actually have to SAY what they want, somehow it doesn't count, or means that the other person doesn't truly understand them. "If you really loved me, you'd already KNOW what's the matter!"
Posted by one hundred eighteen on August 27, 2010 at 11:02 PM · Report this
119
@109:

Women really don't care that much about height. They don't care as much as men think, and they don't care anywhere *near* as much as *women* think!

It's very common for women to *say* they care about height, because that's what society says to care about. Your friend, being gay, may not have been aware of the large disparity between what women say they want and what they actually want: many women aren't even aware of it.
Posted by BlackRose on August 27, 2010 at 11:57 PM · Report this
kinseythree 120
@119

That's a good point... If you ask a woman (or a man) what they want, they'll probably just rattle off a description of some idealized Prince (or Princess) Charming. Maybe their own fantasy, maybe what they think their friends/society would envy. In practice, the majority of people are probably flexible and will try anyone they click with.

I find certain combos of features often turn my crank, but none of them are requirements. For example; people with dark hair, light eyes, and freckles leave me in a drooling stupor. However, there's plenty of people who possess none of those characteristics that also leave me in a drooling stupor. My point being; tallness is just one possible characteristic of many. When a woman says she finds tallness attractive, that doesn't necessarily mean she requires it.
Posted by kinseythree on August 28, 2010 at 12:59 AM · Report this
Roma 121
BlackRose & kinseythree, I appreciate your comments but this is an area where we'll have to agree to disagree.

I do agree with what kinseythree said, "when a woman says she finds tallness attractive, that doesn't necessarily mean she requires it" because there are always exceptions.

But I maintain what I wrote above, that height is the most important physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women.

And I don't believe at all that women say they want a tall (or taller-than-them) man because of what society says. I believe it's for the two reasons women have told me: a taller man makes them feel more secure and a taller man makes them feel more feminine (or both.)

Posted by Roma on August 28, 2010 at 9:40 AM · Report this
Roma 122
118, you bring up a good point and, if that's the main reason, then it shows that, in this particular area, women are much more, as you said, narcissistic than men.

I'm not as convinced as you are, however, that it's the main reason. I think lack of confidence and fear of rejection are the main reasons. In fact, the subtext of your friend's comment, "he's supposed to want me, and I get to decide whether he's good enough", is that she wants to do the rejecting (or approving.) She can't handle being the one who's vulnerable and might be rejected.

I was on a message board/forum with mostly women about five years ago. We were discussing this issue and most of the women admitted they were not just afraid, but terrified, of initiating something with a man they were interested in and being turned down. A couple of the women said they had done it, been turned down, and were "devastated." The part that I thought was cool was that a couple other women said they met their husbands that way, by taking the initiative, so they encouraged these "devastated" women, and other women who said they were afraid, to go for it. They were giving the same advice to these women that women give to men: have confidence, don't take it personally, and it's not the end of the world if someone turns you down.
Posted by Roma on August 28, 2010 at 9:54 AM · Report this
123
@122 But in our culture, men are thought to be way more horny than women. So, if a man proposes sex to a woman and gets turned down, it's seen as less of a personal rejection than if a woman proposes sex to a man and gets turned down. (The thought that runs through my head is "Wow, I must be pretty skanky if he won't even have NSA sex with me.") It's getting better with practice, but I do think there's a reason it's harder for women to do the asking.
Posted by EricaP on August 28, 2010 at 11:42 AM · Report this
124
Dude the two guys I've been most crazy hot for in my life are 6'5", 250+ lbs and 5'4", 120lbs. When you box yourself in to a certain "type" you don't allow deep attraction to develop. Pick a better way than bars to meet people (not potential sex partners, but people) pursue further friendship with those you like, then downselect from those friends to women you feel a spark with and ask them out on dates and see what happens. When you only hit on a certain type of woman, then you may be missing other women you could be attracted to if you bothered to get to know them a little. Besides, if you frequent bars to meet people, you meet drunks. (don't ask me how I know this)
Posted by GG1000 on August 28, 2010 at 4:46 PM · Report this
125
Roma: you said "Very true. Height is, without question, the single most important physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women." I'd have to disagree with you on that one.

I think, if you asked 100 women whether they'd prefer to date a short, well-groomed guy or a tall, smelly one, 99 would pick the short guy.

Also, I think you'll find that fewer women would consider *any* single physical characteristic (other than "basic hygiene", which is partly behavioral) an absolute deal breaker. I think most women would date an otherwise-perfect guy who was 4'11", but I don't know that most men would date an otherwise perfect woman who was 200 lbs.
Posted by Melissa Trible on August 28, 2010 at 5:14 PM · Report this
126
@119: "It's very common for women to *say* they care about height, because that's what society says to care about. Your friend, being gay, may not have been aware of the large disparity between what women say they want and what they actually want: many women aren't even aware of it.

I hope you are revealing a secret, not expecting that men should already know this about women. Last I checked, human men are categorically incapable of the Vulcan Mind Probe, and all the external messages that they get from society, the media, and the women themselves, contradict this thing that women supposedly feel inside, but so secretly that some of them aren't even aware of it, and never say out loud.
Posted by avast2006 on August 28, 2010 at 5:53 PM · Report this
Roma 127
Melissa, you're probably right about that. Smell is very important to people. Along with what you said about the 100 women, which I would agree with, if you asked 100 men whether they'd prefer to date an overweight woman who smelled nice or a slender woman who stunk, 99 would probably pick the overweight one.

So, if we want to include how someone smells as a physical characteristic, then let me slightly amend my assertion to: height is the most important visual physical characteristic in a man to the majority of women.

I definitely disagree with you that most women would would date an otherwise-perfect guy who was 4'11" (unless, of course, they were shorter than 4'11".)
Posted by Roma on August 28, 2010 at 6:54 PM · Report this
Roma 128
Erica, I'm curious why you assumed we're talking about men and women asking each other for NSA sex. This is about men and women just asking each other out on a date or taking the initiative and just chatting someone up, showing them you have an interest.

And I don't think men are just thought to be more horny than women. I think men are more horny than women. More kinky too.

Posted by Roma on August 28, 2010 at 7:06 PM · Report this
BearNecessity 129
@BTL - Please take all the positive feedback and advice in this column to heart. One thing to consider is, while you look for a tall woman, there is a tall women looking for you. It's just a matter of right time, right circumstance.

Not trying to find the lady in bars is a good idea. Try dating sites, and be up front about the fact that you're a "shorter guy" (5'6" isn't that short in my book either) searching for a woman over x'x" tall. It's a particular niche you're trying to fill and it may not happen immediately, but at least put it out there.

Other resources, don't know how good they are, but you may find forums or at least fellowship there:

http://amazonlove.org/main.html
http://tallwomendating.net/

Here are testimonials by tall women about how they love "little guys":
http://www.shortsupport.org/News/0285.ht…

And lastly, here's a video. It might seem kind of staid, but see if it doesn't help motivate you. Lord knows it's more advice than Dan gave you:
http://www.howcast.com/videos/292653-How…

Hang in there!
Posted by BearNecessity on August 28, 2010 at 7:57 PM · Report this
singing cynic 130
I used to only date tall guys - 5'10 to 6 feet. The first short guy I dated (5'5) was the best sex I ever had - also the most confident, secure, and thoughtful - and I married him. Short men rock.
Posted by singing cynic on August 29, 2010 at 3:45 AM · Report this
Bluejean Baby 131
@ #7 & #8 ...yes there is a sexual orientation called asexuality. Check out www.asexuality.org for more information. I'm married to an asexual guy who hid his orientation from me until after we were married and had 2 children. He finds sex a drag, "like work" (his words) and prefers to abstain, doesn't even masturbate, has no hard-ons, and prefers to live without, much to my dismay. So, he duped me at the outset by trying to suppress that side of himself, which is always a mistake, and eventually, the real him emerged. Society tells people of "other" orientations that they are somehow damaged goods. What he should have done was tell me right away (i'm positive he knew) so that i could have made an informed choice. Little did i know that down the line, we would be having NO sexual relationship. He is not damaged goods; he just prefers to not have sex. But i prefer to have sex, and lots of it.

We are a mismatch, and if only he had been honest with himself and with me all those years ago, i wouldn't be in this predicament i'm in now. I have no idea what the future holds for us. He's a friend, we live like roomies, raising our 2 kids, but surely, this isn't the end of my sex life??? He prefers to not talk about it; he gets upset and defensive if i try to discuss it, so i've gone behind his back (once) and had an affair, just to get fucked the way i need it.

People need to be upfront and honest about their sexuality and all their kinks when they start getting intimate with a new partner. It's the only way to have a long, successful, happy relationship.

So, YES, there is such a thing as asexuality, it is not something you make a choice to be - asexual people are born that way, just the same as gays and lesbians are born that way, just the same as heteros are born that way. Yes, it is a sexual orientation.
More...
Posted by Bluejean Baby on August 29, 2010 at 9:51 AM · Report this
Bluejean Baby 132
@ #128 ...i think you are wrong, wrong, wrong about horny, kinky men. I'm not saying men aren't, but...

Society tells women they shouldn't be kinky, horny, or love sex. I am here to tell you that i am probably more sexually intense than 3/4 of the guys i've ever been with, more erotic, more horny, more sensual, and i love to fuck.

So, there goes your theory.
Posted by Bluejean Baby on August 29, 2010 at 9:59 AM · Report this
133
re: OPA.
I don't think OPA is providing enough information about what happened (did she know he was a virgin? Was this also his first time receiving/giving head? When he said he didn't come, did he mean that he lost his erection or that he could stay hard, but couldn't come?)... and I do think he's probably. If he didn't tell his partner or lied about his being a virgin- asshole. If he did- debatable. I was recently in a similar situation- well, on the opposite side of it, anyway.

I dated and unwittingly deflowered a man in his late 20s and he didn't tell me about his being a virgin (and actively lied about it) until we unsuccessfully had sex twice. Even then, he didn't volunteer the information, but begrudgingly admitted it after I asked him a series of questions. If I had known he was a virgin, I would have taken the lead more than I did and had different expectations. This guy lost his erection two nights in a row, saying that it had never happened to him before and that he was just nervous because it was our first time together. And yeah, I did take it a little personally. I wasn't mad, but I was disappointed and felt inadequate and unattractive. He was a selfish lover and I didn't think that we had any sexual chemistry, which I wouldn't have thought so much if I knew he'd never done it before. Once I knew he was completely inexperienced, I was very accepting. I liked him and would have been (and was) cool with working on the sex stuff with him. What I wasn't ok with was his lying to me and dismissing my concerns when I tried to talk about sex stuff with him. The next few times we had sex weren't great, but there was definite improvement. Things didn't work out, but that's not why.

Of course, sometimes people just don't have the chemistry, but I think it's worth giving it a little time to try if you like the person a lot. Communication is key though- OPA has got to have that card on the table, think about the situation from his partners perspective, and possibly adjust his own expectations.
More...
Posted by Mayonegg on August 29, 2010 at 10:37 AM · Report this
nocutename 134
Roma:
Yeah, to some women height is very important. I've had male friends tell me about how often they're rejected for not being tall enough (one guy is 6' and even he has been slighted for not being able to tower over a tall (5'9" woman!). But not all women care that much--it often really does come down to attitude, and many short men are pretty insecure about their height, which translates into an attitude of uncomfortableness with the woman, which the woman can translate as "he doesn't find me all that desirable," which, in agreement with #118, is probably the single most attractive quality about a man: the fact that he obviously desires the woman. Vicious circle, to be sure.

Hygiene and grooming matter so much more than height, quantity of hair, or six-packs alone. Every woman I've ever spoken to agrees on this.

Speaking only for myself, assuming the hygiene and grooming are there (please remember to trim and clean your fingernails, guys!), the most attractive qualities in a man are intelligence, passion and conversation skills, and a good sense of humor. I don't date a man's hair; I don't date a measuring stick; I don't date muscles (not that I don't appreciate great hair, a toned body and a tall man): I want to date a man who makes me want to see him again. All the physical attributes in the world can't really hold my interest for long if they exist in a vacuum. I once dated a guy who was much bigger than me--6'3", incredibly broad-shouldered, arms like tree trunks that made me feel like a fragile little girl being securely taken care of when he held me in them. He also had a head full of hair, a killer smile, and smelled good. But you know what? He couldn't make conversation to save his life, had limited interests, and he was surly and erratic and judgmental and controlling. One-and-a-half dates was enough for me.

It's true that one's biggest sex organ is the brain; it's also true that one's most attractive quality is the brain (or how it's used), too.
More...
Posted by nocutename on August 29, 2010 at 10:50 AM · Report this
135
@128, I responded about finding NSA sex because that's what's on my mind. I'm happily married, and not interested in dating other men, but I am interested in screwing them. I had thought that asking directly would work much of the time, but it seems to freak many men out. For me, the solution is a combination of trying to get further with body language before the "ask," and trying to learn more about which guys are likelier to say yes to a stranger's offer (40s and up).

Sorry if I derailed your conversation about dating. But I do think you should consider whether men really want women to make the advances; you might find it flattering, but you might also (subconsciously) find the woman less attractive than if the same woman had flirted with you but waited for you to ask her out.
Posted by EricaP on August 29, 2010 at 11:27 AM · Report this
nocutename 136
yeah, EricaP!
Posted by nocutename on August 29, 2010 at 11:28 AM · Report this
137
@131: Where is your evidence that asexuals are "born that way"? I'm more inclined to think that something fucked them up along the way. And frankly I have no qualms about calling someone with zero sexual impulse fucked-up, just like I'd call someone with zero emotions fucked-up. Not every form of human sexuality merits an identity movement.

@132: The previous commenter wasn't saying that ALL men are hornier than ALL women. The fact that you personally are hornier than the average man - and there are indeed some super-horny women out there (I've dated a few) - doesn't disprove the idea that women, in general, tend to be less horny, less "raring to go", more able to take it or leave it. Just because there are some Filipinos who are taller than some Dutchmen doesn't mean most Filipinos aren't, on average, shorter.

@135: It may not be an issue of gender norms per se. Unexpected directness is often a sign of boundary issues and/or mental illness, and it's hard to unlearn that. In other words, the guy is probably asking himself "What's the catch? Is she crazy, or is she going to knife me and take my wallet, or...?" Of course, fiction and popular culture reinforce that idea too.
Posted by 53.4 kilometers on August 29, 2010 at 12:19 PM · Report this
Roma 138
132/Bluejean baby, let me explain my "men are more kinky" assertion - one, by the way, shared by Mr. Savage here ("So ladies, be warned: Men are kinkier than women") and here ("It's a sad fact that men are more likely to be kinky than women.").

When I say "men are more kinky" I don't mean that every single man is kinkier than every single woman. Of course not. I mean the average level of kinkiness is higher among men than it is among women or, as Dan put it, men are more likely to be kinky than women. Are there women who could outkink any guy? Absolutely. Are there men who aren't kinky at all? Sure. But that doesn't mean that, overall, women are as kinky as men.

Since we're also talking about height in this thread, let me use it as an analogy. We can all agree that the average height of men is greater than the average height of women, right? Some women, of course, are very tall and some men are very short. But those exceptions don't disprove the general rule: men are taller than women (or men are taller, in general/on average, than women.)

Now, you can certainly disagree me and with Dan. You may feel very strongly that the average level of kinkiness is just as high among women as it is among men. But I bet you could take almost any kinky behavior or fantasy and you'd find more men doing it or fantasizing about it. And I would argue that the more perverse it is, the higher the ratio of men to women.

I feel the same thing is true for horniness, or desire. If you could read the minds of 1,000 men and 1,000 women for a year, I'd bet you anything that the men, on average would be thinking about sex a lot more and wanting it a lot more.
More...
Posted by Roma on August 29, 2010 at 4:52 PM · Report this
Roma 139
Nocutename, I appreciate your comments.

We agree that height is very important to some women. Where we disagree is in just what percentage of women that "some" is. You obviously feel it's much smaller than I do.

If short men tend to be insecure about their height, don't you think that probably stems, in large part, from being turned down by women a lot, likely due to their lack of stature? As Urqutha Forka said at #24, "Confidence is something that comes from success. If a man is tall and gets lots of women, he will likely exude confidence because he knows, from successful experience, he can get what he wants. If a man is short and doesn't get lots of women, how is he supposed to be confident?

Regarding what you said about being in agreement with #118, that the single most attractive quality about a man to a woman is when he obviously desires her. I'm sure that is a very attractive quality to a woman, but it's attractive (or it has meaning) only if she finds him attractive. A guy can have a burning desire for a woman and if she doesn't think he's hot or isn't interested in him for some other reasons, then that quality is irrelevant. (I desired the last woman I was with. I thought she was wonderful -- smart, funny, interesting, attractive -- and let her know that. But, for whatever reason, she didn't feel the same way in return so she broke things off.)

I agree with you that hygiene and grooming are more important than height to some extent. If a 5'8" woman was choosing between a 6' tall guy who reeked and dressed like a bum and a 5'6" guy who was squeaky clean and impeccably groomed (and all their other qualities were roughly equal) then yeah, Mr. Five Six would undoubtedly be picked. But if Senor Six Foot wasn't that smelly or slovenly compared to the other guy, then he'd probably be selected.

(As a side note, I've seen countless personal ads from women where they stress good hygiene and grooming as a must for men..and you just mentioned trimming and cleaning fingernails. Is poor hygiene and grooming, including fingernail care failure, that rampant among men?)

Speaking only for myself, the most attractive qualities in a man are intelligence, passion and conversation skills, and a good sense of humor. I don't date a man's hair; I don't date a measuring stick; I don't date muscles (not that I don't appreciate great hair, a toned body and a tall man): I want to date a man who makes me want to see him again. All the physical attributes in the world can't really hold my interest for long if they exist in a vacuum.

I don't doubt any of that. Those are the most attractive qualities to me in a woman too (I'd add thoughtfulness.) But he has to be physically/sexually attractive to you in some way, right? Men who have intelligence, passion, conversation skills and a good sense of humor meet women all the time and are told "You're really great...but...let's just be friends, okay?" (and, of course, women get told this by men all the time too if the men like them but aren't attracted to them.)

When I was younger I used to believe that women didn't care about looks nearly as much as men. And I still believe that women, on average, probably do care somewhat less than men. But what I think now is that the main difference between men and women is that men are more honest or open in admitting that looks matter to them. To me, most women seem unwilling to admit that looks are important to them.
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Posted by Roma on August 29, 2010 at 5:56 PM · Report this
140
Roma: You are saying that the "most important" physical attribute that women want in a man (aside from grooming and hygeine- which I agree with you and other posters is more important)- is height. I beg to respectfully disagree. It's physical fitness. I would date a short, or average height *fit, cut-up* guy wayyy before I would date a tall, overweight one. (Or a tall, emaciated, or skinny/flabby one for that matter).

I think most women would agree with me. Ask 100 women if they'd rather date a tall, overweight/out of shape guy, or a short fit, sexy guy and 99 (ok, at least 90) would choose the guy with the abs.

And I don't mean perfect, just fit. Some abs, nice strong legs, ass etc. :)
Posted by YeahYeahYeah on August 29, 2010 at 6:16 PM · Report this
141
@137 Yeah, you're probably right that sometimes I get turned down because the man thinks I'm crazy, rather than skanky. LOL.
Posted by EricaP on August 29, 2010 at 6:18 PM · Report this
Roma 142
135/Erica: I'm happily married, and not interested in dating other men, but I am interested in screwing them. I had thought that asking directly would work much of the time, but it seems to freak many men out.

Sorry to be blunt, but could these men be freaked out because they don't find you attractive? This is what I was alluding to in a prior post. I think that women have a very hard time showing an interest in men and being rejected so when it happens they need to come up with a face-saving reason (e.g. "he obviously doesn't like women asking him out.") It's similar to a guy asking a woman out and when she turns him down he comes back to his buddies and says "she's a lesbian."

Or, maybe they've found you attractive but they're uncomfortable with the fact that you're married. If a woman I found attractive wanted to fuck me and told me she was married, I wouldn't jump at the chance. First, because my personal ethics wouldn't let me participate in cheating (I wouldn't want another guy fucking my wife if I was married so I'm not going to fuck another guy's wife...the old Golden Rule.) And second, if she said, "it's fine, we have an arrangement," I'd still be uneasy taking her word for it. I wouldn't want to find out she was lying by having Mr. Enraged Husband discovering she was fucking me and showing up at my door with a gun.

What I'm saying is that (1) if these guys found you attractive and (2) there was some way they could be reassured that your husband wouldn't come gunning for them, I have a very difficult time imagining why they'd be freaked out.

Sorry if I derailed your conversation about dating. But I do think you should consider whether men really want women to make the advances; you might find it flattering, but you might also (subconsciously) find the woman less attractive than if the same woman had flirted with you but waited for you to ask her out.

Merci, but no apology necessary. This has been an interesting conversation on all fronts.

A woman wrote a dating feature in the Seattle Times about five years ago. Her premise was that men don't like it when women ask them out and to "support" her premise she quoted about three women in the article and all of the women said something like: "when I ask men out, they get scared." The writer didn't talk to any men. Perhaps if she had talked to these men who were "scared" she would have found out they did not find these women attractive. Subsequent to this article I talked to all my male friends, co-workers, and some random guys in clubs. I asked them, "how would you feel if a woman came up to you and started talking you and you could tell she was interested in you?" The typical answer was along the lines of: "It depends. It depends on what she's like. If she was cute and fun to talk to, I'd be flattered. If wasn't attracted to her, I'd admire her for coming up to me but I wouldn't be flattered."

Now, are there some men who wouldn't be interested in a woman they found cute and fun to talk to who came up to them? I'm sure there are. Men who are very traditional ("Tarzan hunt, Tarzan not like be hunted!") would most likely be that way. But I think the majority of men wouldn't care, or would be very flattered, if a woman they found attractive approached them for a chat. (And women are the same way. Women aren't thrilled if a guy they find homely or uninteresting comes up and tries to start a conversation with them.)

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Posted by Roma on August 29, 2010 at 6:39 PM · Report this
143
Roma, women taking the initiative won't work in most cases, and here's why. Men tend to want things to progress faster than most women are comfortable with. So if she's already interested and he hasn't made a move, 99 percent of the time it's because he's not interested. And if he IS interested, she won't have time to make the first move because he's already done it. Never in my life was I ever in a situation in which I thought a guy waited too long to ask me out. And if he had waited for me to do the asking, it would have taken much more time. The upside to that is maybe relationships wouldn't be so rushed if the woman always made the first move. But getting men to be that patient would require major efforts at social engineering.
Posted by Diagoras on August 29, 2010 at 10:47 PM · Report this
144
@140, well I might be the oddball but I'm more attracted to height than physical fitness. Extra weight on a man has never really bothered me. I don't my being attracted to tall men (over 6 feet) has anything to do with reasons talked about here, wanting to be protected, etc. They just tend to stand out in a crowd more, quite literally. But it wasn't a deal breaker for me, as there were a couple of short men that I dated before I got married. My husband is 6 feet, 2 inches tall, though.
Posted by Diagoras on August 29, 2010 at 10:55 PM · Report this
145
@EricaP: I can't speak for other guys, but, as a guy who definitely likes it when women ask me out, (and yes, a woman asking me does make her sexier to me :), I'd be pretty wierded out by your particular situation. That whole "I'm happily married and looking for NSA sex" thing. I wouldn't think you're skanky, but, just going from that info, I'd partly be concerned about being unfair to your husband and partly be worried about the possibility of some angry guy showing up on my doorstep with a shotgun one day.

For what it's worth, a big part of the reason I prefer women to ask me out is that I have Asperger's Syndrome, which means (among other things) that I'm really bad at reading body language. So a woman's body language quite literally gives me no clue whether she's interested in me or not, no matter how obvious she thinks she's being. I know women can (usually) read my body language, so *tell me what you're thinking*! LOL

As for why men are willing to ask women out while most women aren't willing to ask men out, women know that another guy will come to them soon enough, while we know that we're forfeiting the vast majority of our options if we don't approach women. (And I'm guessing there are some guys who actually like approaching women. But not me.)
Posted by Old Crow on August 30, 2010 at 12:13 AM · Report this
146
@Diagoras: "Men tend to want things to progress faster than most women are comfortable with."

That's certainly true, but as far as simply asking her out goes there's another consideration: if the guy doesn't make a move promptly some other guy will. So a guy has a strong incentive to make a move as soon as he thinks he might be interested. If he waits until he's sure he's interested, she's probably not going to be around for him to ask.
Posted by Old Crow on August 30, 2010 at 12:53 AM · Report this
147
@142, my husband was there to reassure that he was into it (in fact, me screwing other guys is as much his fantasy as mine). Young guys weren't interested -- either because the idea wasn't attractive or because I wasn't attractive enough. Older guys have been more interested and cool about the idea. And really, by older I'm just talking about guys my age and older, so it's not surprising that that's who I can attract, especially since it turns out that the cougar meme was mostly a myth. http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11…
Posted by EricaP on August 30, 2010 at 9:22 AM · Report this
148
Also Roma, you are comparing apples to oranges. The article you refer to @142 was talking about women asking men out. Your counter example was about women initiating conversation with men.

Men are generally happy to have women start up a conversation. But ask your friends if they want women to ask them out on a date (or propose a blow job in the bar bathroom :-) That's the part that's scary, when you're under pressure to decide quickly whether you're interested.
Posted by EricaP on August 30, 2010 at 9:33 AM · Report this
149
142 I think this is like how you say Height is SUPER important to women although many women say it is not. Many men SAY they want assertive confident women to proposition them and then give the "ew no way you're a slut" vibe when she does (even if she just asks for a date). The idea is there must be something wrong with her if she's that forward. They like being the decision makers. If a man isn't asking you out, he doesn't want to. He can dress it up in "she'd reject me" all he wants but he doesn't want to (it's more if she said yes she'd fuck up his loser paradigm).

And please place me in the "hell no to the virgins" crew. I've deflowered three and I am very glad I am (what I thought was) too old for that nonsense now. Yuck. I don't want to have to train someone, I am not a teacher, and I suspect a guy who was that old and hadn't had sex yet would have WAY too many sex hangups for me to be compatible with him. Oh and for whoever said most women prefer a virgin to a manwhore? No. Sounds like words spoken by a woman who either never orgasms or never slept with a man who couldn't bring her there. I want a man who has had plenty of experience, a variety of different sexual partners to learn from, and brings plenty to the table. My bedroom is not a place for amateur night.
Posted by wendykh on August 30, 2010 at 10:57 AM · Report this
150
People tend to date people they are familiar with. I am short so I date tall men. I went through my sexual maturity while living in whitey whiteville so I tend to like white men. I also tend to date guys that look similar to the types of guys I went to high school/college with.

This doesn't mean everything else is out the window, people just tend to stay in their comfort bubble.
Posted by kersy on August 30, 2010 at 11:10 AM · Report this
151
The formulation of whether height is THE most important attribute to a woman is not particularly informative. The question really is whether height is or is not a deal-breaker. Any number of things can individually be a deal-breaker. The relative hierarchy of those things is irrelevant. To the unfortunate possessor of that one characteristic, it feels completely unfair when the person has so much else to offer.

The societal list of deal-breakers seems to be growing over time. Witness the "Undateable" blog/book/show phenomenon. Disgusting.
Posted by avast2006 on August 30, 2010 at 11:10 AM · Report this
152
One reason why men might not like it when women ask them out is that there is a HUGE societal pressure on men to be the initiators. Many women say they want the man to initiate. Men say that part of being manly is being forward and aggressive, which means initiating. Media outlets trumpet this 24/7.

Men who don't do the initiating are widely seen as emasculated. When a woman initiates, maybe the man who reacts badly thinks the woman sees him this way. This stupid; what they should be seen as is so attractive that women are willing to overcome their own societal messages that women are supposed to hang back and let the man take the lead.
Posted by avast2006 on August 30, 2010 at 11:19 AM · Report this
153
@149 AMEN!
Posted by kersy on August 30, 2010 at 11:21 AM · Report this
154
BTL - Don't think it's hopeless! One of my best friends who I've known for like 18 years has a husband who is shorter than she is. And I also think her ex-husband was also shorter. I don't know if it's a preference but I definitely know she doesn't judge by height. She's not butch but I do consider her an inwardly and outwardly tough person. She's a very dominant personality. So don't fret! Yes, it's true, most girls probably do want a guy taller than they (I admit I am one of them) but there are girls out there who dig shorter men the same way there are guys out there who dig large women. Don't give up!
Posted by DietaryFiber on August 30, 2010 at 11:30 AM · Report this
155
I'm VERY sure OPA's sex skills were just sub-par, as it was his first time. He sounds like an asshole to me.
And saying they have no chemistry when it comes to just kissing? That itself is the biggest red flag there is. I can't imagine anything close to even decent sex with someone I don't even enjoy kissing.

Real life sex isn't a scene from a porno. Don't expect her moaning and groaning from having your dick in her mouth.
Posted by Canadienne on August 30, 2010 at 2:35 PM · Report this
156
@48 Exactly.
Posted by Canadienne on August 30, 2010 at 2:37 PM · Report this
157
Just wanted to add my two cents to the BTL thread. I'm not a tall girl - I'm 5'4", which I think is very close to the North American statistical average for women. While I've dated and / or had crushes on men of many different heights, I realized after the fact that two of the guys I carried torches for, for longer even than usual, were also exactly my height - 5'4". So I'm attracted to any height, but the short ones clearly seem to hit a soft spot for me.

(Also, incidentally, I am acquainted with a stable triad - two girls, one guy; he's fairly short and slender-framed (though fit) and one of the girls, while she may not be taller, is certainly "butch-er" than he is.)

I'm not YOUR type, BTL, but rest assured there are short-guy-lovers out there!
Posted by Corvicula1979 on August 30, 2010 at 4:02 PM · Report this
158
@131 Why do you think your asexual husband intentionally mislead you and married a woman who wants lots of sex? Wouldn't he be happier with an asexual woman? Are there non-sexual traits correlated to sex drive that cause an asexual person to be attracted to a person with a high sex drive (and vice versa) in an "opposites attract" kind of way?

I have met other people in your situation and it just seems tragic for all involved. I hope you maintain your sanity until your kids are 18 and then I am sure there will be a man who will be thrilled to help you make up for lost time.
Posted by dp4 on August 30, 2010 at 4:02 PM · Report this
159
In Savage's response to STD, the reference should be to Lazarus getting his sores licked, not Job. Thanks to the eagle-eyed, Bible-knowing commenters who pointed it out. Here is a link to his correction:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Posted by Gillian Anderson on August 30, 2010 at 4:52 PM · Report this
160
@BTL:

I'm 5'9" or 5'10" - somewhere in there - and have often felt really self-conscious about my height - partly probably because I'm in a town where the population's half asian and I kind of stand out - and every time someone says tall girls are hot, I breathe a huge sigh of relief. There must be plenty of girls out there who'll be relieved to know that you like their height. My ex who was 5'6" and I used to just joke about it; if I wore heels it was just the right height for him to get an awesome view of the cleavage. (:

Oh, and as a general rule no matter who you are, the bar is not necessarily the best place to pick up people who've got it together. Hike or jog or learn social dancing like swing or salsa or ballroom (there are never enough guys in the room in social dancing) or volunteer or join a book club or something. Some online dating sites like OKcupid can work out pretty well too.
Posted by Fan of EVPC on August 30, 2010 at 5:16 PM · Report this
161
@135(EricaP): Are you living in an alternate universe without any epidemics of incurable sexually transmitted diseases? If so, how did you get over there? Just wondering.
Posted by TomMK on August 30, 2010 at 6:30 PM · Report this
162
@161, I don't understand your question. When screwing men besides my husband, I use condoms, and he does the same when screwing other women. (Also, I will note that I have fucked 8 men in my life. Four of them this year, plus my husband, but then I have a lot of missed opportunities to make up for.)

Condoms don't protect us completely, but then we drive too, and that is probably more likely to lead to an early death than STDs. We've had all the children we want, so we're not worried about the threat to our fertility. And we're at that point (40 y/o) where we're more worried about missing out on the joys life has to offer than on maximizing our number of days on earth at any price.

Posted by EricaP on August 30, 2010 at 6:56 PM · Report this
163
My husband is up to a grand lifetime total of five women with whom he has had intercourse. If he wants to screw a few more before death do us part... I'm fine with that.
Posted by EricaP on August 30, 2010 at 6:58 PM · Report this
164
uh, book club or something? Really. How many dudes have you seen, short or otherwise at a book club? Not sure why, I'd love to attend one, but its just not a very popular form of passing time for the male population.
Posted by jaansdornea on August 30, 2010 at 7:33 PM · Report this
165
above is for 160
Posted by jaansdornea on August 30, 2010 at 7:35 PM · Report this
166
I'm short (5' 7" 130#) and I LOVE lesbians and tall chicks...oh, my favorites por vida.
Posted by aeros66 on August 31, 2010 at 2:14 AM · Report this
167
Roma:
>I definitely disagree with you that most women would would date an otherwise-perfect guy who was 4'11" (unless, of course, they were shorter than 4'11".)

I can't speak for "most women", only my own self, but I'm 5'3". Though I prefer tall guys, I would *cheerfully* date an otherwise likely guy who was 4'11". If I meet a smart, funny geek who's into the same things I am, I'm not letting the fact that I'm taller than him stop me from dating him.

Yeah, there has to be at least some physical attraction, but height is a useful but not necessary characteristic of that.
Posted by Melissa Trible on August 31, 2010 at 3:37 AM · Report this
168
In regards to BLT: My partner calls me his Amazon, being that I am 5'11, and nearly four inches taller than him. We have a lovely relationship. :-) It does happen. Just keep looking!
For us, the fact that we were introduced online through a mutual friend and developed our relationship before really noticing (although we knew about it) our height difference, was a big help. Otherwise, he would have assumed I was out of his league and I mightn't have seen him as more than a friend. But our characters match so well that I am glad things worked out this way!
Posted by icy on August 31, 2010 at 4:21 AM · Report this
169
@112: "I just get tired of women criticizing men for wanting women who aren't overweight while giving a pass to all their sisters who want men who are tall."

Well, hypocrisy ... can't say I'm not against that.
Posted by Gloria on August 31, 2010 at 7:22 AM · Report this
170
@164: If there are no men there, then doesn't it make it a rather appropriate place to pick up women? The post was addressed to dudes, after all, and specifically pointing out a place or two where there are *scads* of ladies and less male competition (e.g. dancing classes).
Posted by Gloria on August 31, 2010 at 9:14 AM · Report this
171
@161: Please invest in condoms. They're a wondrous invention.
Posted by Gloria on August 31, 2010 at 9:16 AM · Report this
172
@170 -- imho you're right sorta. Book clubs are generally open via invite only. If a guy attempted to get an invite, I think that he might be viewed as having mixed motives. Also, if you're having trouble with the ladies to begin with, a book club invitation might be next to impossible to get. Finally, a girl bringing a guy to a book club is sort of like a guy bringing a girl to a guy's poker night -- the rest of the participants may look down on this.

I'm a married straight but open minded guy and not looking for a hookup, but if anyone knows of an active book club with a guy in it, I would love to join... seriously. I've just never heard of one. My wife definitely doesn't want me crashing her party.

Dancing classes however, I'm all in favor of since it generally takes two to tango and open to both sexes. Another good one is the climbing gym.
Posted by jaansdornea on August 31, 2010 at 9:28 AM · Report this
173
@172: Community dances are also great. The ones near me feature a lot of early American dancing such as squares, contras and rounds. All ages show up! If you can walk, you can dance, so you don't have to be super coordinated, and all dances are walked through and called. There's almost always more women than men at these. I've noticed more and more twenty somethings coming to these dances. There are also community ballroom dancing as well as other styles. There's pretty much something for everyone.

Posted by fun fun on August 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM · Report this
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@172:

There are a lot of book clubs that are not invite only: churches, libraries, and organizations often have them. You could also check websites like Meetup. And for what it's worth, the book clubs as well as the poker games I go to generally include women as well as men, and no one thinks that it's strange.
Posted by BlackRose on August 31, 2010 at 6:28 PM · Report this
175
@172: To be totally honest, I've never joined a book club so I'm unsure exactly what the scene is like. But I'd be willing to wager that the library holds them. Or the local college/university.

Anyway, those are at least two organizations that are great resources for mixed-sex, cheap/affordable, open-to-public events and clubs.

Or, I know this sounds annoying, if you can, but start your own? Make it known it's an open, mixed environment, recruit female friends who are avid readers (to create a friendly environment for single lady strangers), and cross your fingers.

Keeping your ear close to the ground with local blogs, etc. is fantastic too. A bar near where I live recently held a Simpsons trivia night, open to all.
Posted by Gloria on September 1, 2010 at 7:02 AM · Report this
Bluejean Baby 176
@ 158 (dp4) if you visit the website www.asexuality.org you can read all about it. People of this sexual orientation do still want & need a relationship, just one without sex. The secret, as always, to a lasting relationship is to find your match. I would dearly love to get into his head to find out what he's thinking, but of course, he won't allow that. I've tried to talk with him in an adult, unblaming, and caring way, but he won't have it; he clams up. I've had years to ponder all this, & i truly believe that he knows exactly what his state of mind is, & he is afraid of admitting it to me, lest i flee. He does not want the boat rocked in any way, shape or form, either by himself or by me.

We tried counselling, & it ended with him saying he was finished spending money on that venue. In a private convo with the counsellor, i was told that my husband is what's termed "a cold fish" & that i'd be waiting an eternity for him to warm up. We have an otherwise friendly & cordial relationship, raising our children together, but living like roomies.

I am not a fat blob who doesn't care about her appearance or personality. I am of avg body size and stature, i keep fit with regular workouts, i have a college education, i enjoy keeping up with current events & am a sports fan. We enjoy common interests, we both place our children as top priority along with the financial & home management that comes with family & home life, & we vacation together.

Any time i have tried to discuss our sex life, it has ended in a very frustrating situation where i get no answers, & he gets all out of sorts because he knows i'm not getting what i need from him.

Though i've had years to think about my situation, i cannot answer your other question about "opposites attracting". My own take on opposites attracting is that means "opposite sex", not opposite anything else.

Wouldn't he be happier with an asexual woman?... well, yes, but at that time, in that place, there were none around, i suppose. I was attracted to his educated, mannerly, kind demeanour; he was attracted to my pleasant personality & my stunning good looks :) Asexual people do not lack personality; they just lack a sex drive of any sort. I believe he knew he would be without a partner of any sort if he let his sexual preference be known, & i was the best thing that happened to him to that point in his life, & so he married me, thinking that he either could rise (excuse the pun) to the challenge, or perhaps i would settle into a way of life that included little to no sex. He was wrong on both counts, & of course, didn't include me in the decision making process.

Yes, even in these days & ages, people do still hide their sexual preferences & orientation.

I do want to leave him, as i feel that 1/3 of me is missing, & that i'm missing out on fantastic sexual exploration & satisfaction, as the last 10 yrs of my life have been pretty much sexless except for my minor dalliance & of course, lots of masturbation. Thank you for your words of comfort, sympathy, & hope; i appreciate it so much.
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Posted by Bluejean Baby on September 1, 2010 at 12:34 PM · Report this
177
@176 Bluejean baby -- have you tried what Dan suggests? Letting him know: "honey, a girl's got needs. I understand you're not interested but if I get an opportunity to shtup someone else, I'm likely to go for it." It's not your responsibility to be his loving partner if it costs you so much to do so.
Posted by EricaP on September 1, 2010 at 7:08 PM · Report this
Roma 178
@142, my husband was there to reassure that he was into it (in fact, me screwing
other guys is as much his fantasy as mine). Young guys weren't interested -- either because the idea wasn't attractive or because I wasn't attractive enough. Older guys have been more interested and cool about the idea.


Erica, thanks for the clarification. So if your husband is there when you're asking these guys out (or, should we say in) that eliminates my the-freaked-out-guys-are-nervous-about-an-enraged-cheated-on-hubby thought. Plus, if your husband is there, I also think it also probably eliminates the other person's thought that these guys feel you might be crazy. So, that pretty much leaves them not attracted to you...unless part of the deal is that your husband is going to be there (is it?) Then they simply might not be attracted to the idea.

But I don't think their lack of interest has anything (or much) to do with the fact that you're taking the initiative. I mean, if a woman I found attractive and very sexy came up to me somewhere with her husband and introduced me to him and told me she wanted to fuck me and he chimed in with "and it's totally cool with me...in fact, I'll be getting off at home just thinking about the two of you together," why on Mother Earth would I be freaked out? (And if her husband watching was part of the deal, I still might be interested.)

Also Roma, you are comparing apples to oranges. The article you refer to @142 was talking about women asking men out. Your counter example was about women initiating conversation with men. Men are generally happy to have women start up a conversation. But ask your friends if they want women to ask them out on a date (or propose a blow job in the bar bathroom :-) That's the part that's scary, when you're under pressure to decide quickly whether you're interested.

I found that article and my memory wasn't correct on one point: she only quoted one woman, not three, on asking men out. But that woman did say that men get scared...

But anybody can ask for a date. What happens when the woman does the asking? "I ask men out routinely," said Kathy Lindenmayer, a 31-year-old singleton who moved to Seattle from South Carolina eight years ago. And do they respond positively? "No," said Lindenmayer. "They get frightened."

...and the writer didn't bother to ask any men how they feel. I can almost guarantee you the men this woman asked were simply not attracted to her and it's ego-saving for her to think that they're "frightened" instead of accepting that she got turned down because they're not into her.

Anyway, I beg to differ that a woman asking a man out and initiating a conversation is like apples and oranges. More like peaches and nectarines. If a woman takes the initiative to chat a guy up she's likely interested in him to some degree. It's just a less direct approach than asking him out on a date. Subsequent to that article, and the woman's claim, I did ask all those guys how they'd feel if a woman asked them out. And they responded as I noted above.
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Posted by Roma on September 1, 2010 at 11:12 PM · Report this
Roma 179
Roma, women taking the initiative won't work in most cases, and here's why. Men tend to want things to progress faster than most women are comfortable with. So if she's already interested and he hasn't made a move, 99 percent of the time it's because he's not interested. And if he IS interested, she won't have time to make the first move because he's already done it.

Diagoras, 99 percent of the time it's because he's not interested? Have you never heard of shyness?

Men who are interested always make a move? No. Non. Nein. Nyet. As just one example, The Stranger used to have these "I Saw You" ads in the print edition. They were ads -- lots of 'em -- from women and men who saw someone they were interested in but they didn't make a move.

Look, if a woman views shyness in a man as something akin to leprosy (and I think many women do) then she's not going to be interested in a guy who won't make a move on her. He won't be "manly" enough for her. But if she doesn't see shyness that way, and she's willing to put herself out there -- like guys do all the time -- then she might meet a great guy by breaking out of the box.
Posted by Roma on September 1, 2010 at 11:30 PM · Report this
Roma 180
Well, hypocrisy ... can't say I'm not against that.

Thanks Gloria. I sometimes think it's human nature to expect others to behave in ways that we don't, or won't, do ourselves.

On a related note, I know that men often get bashed as "shallow" for caring about the way women look but I think few men are actually "shallow" (according to my definition anyway.) I see being shallow as only or primarily caring about what's on the outside; one is not willing to look deeper into a person. But to care about how a person looks as well as what they think and how they feel and what they're interested in...I don't see that as shallow at all.
Posted by Roma on September 1, 2010 at 11:48 PM · Report this
181
BTL is totally my type. Four of the five guys I was intensely attracted to over the past few years, including my current boyfriend, were between 5'5"-5'7" and 110-130 lbs. About my size. I'm slender and I'm 5'6" tall, but I'm also pretty butch a lot of the time. I just wanted to put it out there that there ARE women attracted to BTL's type. Try looking in the genderqueer community - there are bisexual/pansexual butch and genderqueer women who would love to date/sleep with BTL.
Posted by Kypri on September 2, 2010 at 11:09 AM · Report this
frank adam 182
Hey Dan,

Regarding the little dude that likes 'tall, dominant women'. Um, you're sort of wrong, and you gave the dude kind of half assed advice. I am 5'8" and I dated a model who was 5'10" for two and a half years. Actually, I never even really noticed the difference until she put on the six inch heels. That was a wake up call. It made me feel ridiculous to enter a room with this tall beauty on my arm. I felt like a child. But I will tell you what, everything else about our relationship was awesome: great chemistry, great sex, and a really close bond. I would have been a complete jackass if I let my lack of height or her height get in the way.

Truth be told, most women don't care that much about height. It's like huge boobs on a girl. Guys enjoy it when a girl has a gorgeous C-cup, but I don;t know any guys that would shy away from an amazing girl with an A-cup. Same goes for height. Would a woman prefer to be a little shorter than her man, probably, but most modern, intelligent women are into other, less primordial qualities. Style, intelligence, personality, and physical fitness are way more important to the woman I know. Don't get me wrong there are those women out there who want 6 feet tall, and 6 figure salaries, but those "Last Days of Disco" yuppie types aren't worth dating anyway.
Posted by frank adam on September 2, 2010 at 2:15 PM · Report this
frank adam 183
Hey Dan,

Regarding the little dude that likes 'tall, dominant women'. Um, you're sort of wrong, and you gave the dude kind of half assed advice. I am 5'8" and I dated a model who was 5'10" for two and a half years. Actually, I never even really noticed the difference until she put on the six inch heels. That was a wake up call. It made me feel ridiculous to enter a room with this tall beauty on my arm. I felt like a child. But I will tell you what, everything else about our relationship was awesome: great chemistry, great sex, and a really close bond. I would have been a complete jackass if I let my lack of height or her height get in the way.

Truth be told, most women don't care that much about height. It's like huge boobs on a girl. Guys enjoy it when a girl has a gorgeous C-cup, but I don;t know any guys that would shy away from an amazing girl with an A-cup. Same goes for height. Would a woman prefer to be a little shorter than her man, probably, but most modern, intelligent women are into other, less primordial qualities. Style, intelligence, personality, and physical fitness are way more important to the woman I know. Don't get me wrong there are those women out there who want 6 feet tall, and 6 figure salaries, but those "Last Days of Disco" yuppie types aren't worth dating anyway.
Posted by frank adam on September 2, 2010 at 2:24 PM · Report this
184
The guy lost his virginity and nobody said congratulations. WTF! Way to go dude! I lost mine at 15 and it was not a great experience to be sure. Maybe if I'd waited it'd a been better.
Posted by spunky on September 2, 2010 at 6:39 PM · Report this
185
for the shortie who wants a protective lady arm around him....have ya thought about BBW? Some look butch, and most are looking for more than surface stuff in their men. Just a thought
Posted by Cyn on September 3, 2010 at 12:08 AM · Report this
186
Hi - this is to the short dude!

I'm a taller lady (5 10') and feminine in a nontraditional way. I'm a girl (wear skirts, highlight my hair), but I'm emotionally strong and physically active (but not body building type). I've ALWAYS been attracted to shorter guys! I love how compact short guys are. A small body frame can be delicious looking! Latin American guys often really do it for me.

Look up how sexy dudes from countries with a shorter general height are, and dress right for your frame. Find out about how short some hot actors are, if you see some who have a style you like, figure out why they don't look like little kids, get your confidence up.

Confidence is WAY sexier than height, for almost all women. I know there aren't a lot of ladies who prefer the compact body guys, but I'm one, and I know there are others out there, so keep looking!
Posted by TallGirl<3sShortGuys on September 4, 2010 at 11:10 AM · Report this
187
OPA, if you're still checking back on these comments: I've been in a relationship for over a year now with a guy who was a 32-year-old virgin when we met. He had major trouble keeping it up, and coming, the first few times we had sex, but we clicked anyway, so we kept at it. He still pulls out fairly often and freshens up with his hand, or continues to jerk off while I'm giving him head-only head, but less and less frequently as he gradually gets used to the different sensations. On my side of it, these drawn-out sessions that keep me on the edge of climax for ages are just fine and dandy: it's a big turn-on to be so hungry for his cock and have to ask him for it or coax it out of his hand, but of course many women might just feel frustrated. So be patient, and find somebody who is willing to be patient with you. It'll help if you're good at eating pussy (believe it or not, some people are born pussy-eaters, even with no prior experience!) and are honest and un-hung-up about the way your body works at the moment.

Ah, and the fact that somebody is not great at sex or kissing WITH YOU does not necessarily mean she has lousy technique. So no, don't be an asshole.
Posted by aristobia on September 9, 2010 at 1:47 AM · Report this
188
The clitoris it the only spot on her body down there that can feel enjoyment from your tongue. If you really want to overwhelm her with pleasure, then keep your tongue on the spot that is going to give her satisfaction. To really overwhelm her with pleasure during oral adult sex, you should struggle to give her a double orgasm. if you want to learn more then visit this sites http://bit.ly/bluyNe
Posted by juliejvargas on September 10, 2010 at 9:59 PM · Report this
189
OPA do a search for TMS (Traumatic Masturbatory syndrome). Its a real thing that us unlucky guys sometimes have to deal with. There are online support groups with great advice to help you overcome the issue. Good luck!
Posted by DogStar5988 on September 12, 2010 at 2:13 PM · Report this
amielamick 190
My boyfriend is 5"9" and I am a woman of 5'11" (not a HUGE difference I'll admit) but I always dated guys taller than me. I think it was my own prejudice/insecurity that I never gave shorter guys a chance. Once I opened my eyes I was astounded! Don't be afraid to be confident BTL; that's the sexiest thing of all!
Posted by amielamick http://amielamick.tumblr.com on October 22, 2010 at 12:21 AM · Report this
191
@BTL (if you or anyone is still reading this)

I am a 5'9" bi female who has tended to prefer shorter partners, for many of the same reasons you describe. I frequently get mistaken for being 1-2 inches taller than I am.

What can you do to make yourself more attractive to taller women? Be confident. Love yourself, love who you are, and make it abundantly clear that you love and admire women whether or not you have any hope or desire to sleep with them. Don't be or act threatened by a woman taller than you. Flirt with them, lightheartedly. Don't hate high heels. Compliment women without ulterior motives....or at least compliment women without any investment in whether it goes anywhere (and be able to exit gracefully).

Sometimes (not for me personally but I hear it a lot), it isn't so much that taller women worry about height, but they worry about feeling larger in general than the person they are with. Sometimes they worry about just feeling less feminine (might be less of an issue if you are looking at butch-identified women). Don't hate on a woman you like wearing heels and a dress once in a while. For these women, there may be nothing you can do, but you might consider working out to the point you can handle a much larger woman on top. You could also consider putting an ad out for a butch bi top woman, but be aware that in my experience most 80-100% straight women with short hair etc. that I have met still want to feel feminine.

Also? Don't fetishize us. Unless we are into that. We can smell that a mile away. If fetishizing that is what you want to do, you may want to reconsider identifying so strongly as vanilla.
Posted by Tall Semi-Butchy Lady on March 13, 2011 at 9:19 PM · Report this
192
I know that this is quite an old post but I just thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.
BTL, just so you know I've felt for a long time that there were no men out there who wanted to be protected and/or be in a truly egalitarian relationship with a women. Thank you so much for proving me wrong!
By the way, there are some women (like myself) who don't give a shit about height.
Posted by Membrain on March 22, 2011 at 10:03 PM · Report this

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