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You Guys Are Animals

January 31, 2008

Joe Newton

I'm a 25-year-old male. I'm a zoophile and always have been. I'm a longtime reader (I'm sure you're thrilled), so I know my interests aren't on your approved list of sexual activities. Not trying to argue that point. However, it's clear what turns my head when I walk down the street and it's never the person holding the leash. I know from your column and many other sources that once your brain is "wired" a certain way, "rewiring" it is unlikely (snowball's chance in hell), so this isn't going to go away. My question is what do I do?

Currently, I don't date. I was married once, briefly, never had sex, marriage quickly annulled. I currently have no sexual attraction to any human, male or female, so I don't feel the need to date. Also, sharing this information with anyone would probably end in horror, tears, and my needing to move out of state. However, a lifetime without a relationship (two-legged or four-legged) seems unappealing. Here are the options I see:

1. Get a shrink (who I can talk to about this) and a girlfriend or boyfriend (who I can't talk to about it) and, in terms of the sex, master giving head since my dick won't want to join the party.

2. Buy a house with a big yard and... well, you know.

I don't care if you print this. I'd just like another opinion. I mean, honestly, who else would answer this anonymously, for free, and I actually have some faith in his judgment?

Really Unsure For Future

In short... my advice... which is really going to annoy Mike "Man and Animal" Huckabee... is... um... to buy that big house, RUFF, one with a nice, big yard... and do what you gotta do. Inside, please, shades drawn.

Bestiality is wrong, wrong, wrong, because an animal cannot give its consent. But... uh... anyone who's ever actually owned a boy dog knows that most would be only too delighted to... um... well, you know.

I assumed and, via e-mail, confirmed that you want to be fucked by dogs, as that's almost always the case with dudes into dogs. Man-on-dog is a whole lot wronger than dog-on-man, if I may use a certain former senator's formulation, for reasons of safety for the animal. A zoophile who takes a torn-up girl dog to the vet is going to wind up talking with the police and having to cross a PETA picket line to get back into his house—and it'll serve him right.

For the record, I'm con bestiality. I think fucking dogs is wrong, wrong, wrong. But I had pork and beef and chicken at dinner last night—all 100 percent factory-farmed meat, derived from animals that were cruelly tortured every second of their brief and miserable existence—and my particular strain of Tourette's syndrome commands me to say this: If I were an animal, I'd much rather be screwed than stewed. We murder animals for their flesh, skins, fur, and just for the fuck of it. Those of us who eat meat; wear fur; run around in leather pants, jackets, shoes, restraints, etc.; and kill animals for sport don't have much moral authority when it comes time to lecture those of you who wanna smooch the pooch.

Finally, RUFF, build a nice, tall fence around that yard, okay? And seeing a shrink probably won't make you wanna screw humans but, hey, it couldn't hurt.


You helped take out Rick Santorum by naming a sex-related term after him and now the time has come for you to do the same for GOP hopeful Mike Huckabee. He has compared homosexuality to bestiality in an interview, just like Santorum, and more than once. Huckabee says he's against changing "the definition of marriage so that it can mean two men, two women, a man and three women, a man and a child, a man and animal." So what do you think, Dan? Isn't it time for a contest to name a sex act The Huckabee?

Dave In Olympia

Every time someone says something idiotic in public—myself included—I get letters from readers angrily demanding that Ann Coulter, Stephen Harper, Dick Cheney, myself, et al., get the "santorum treatment" (which sounds almost as disgusting as the substance itself). Honestly, this is the first time I can say that I've been tempted. Huckabee remains a long shot for the GOP nomination, DIO, so it's entirely possible that we'll be rid of Huckabee in a few weeks' time. But in case Huckabee is the nominee—you can't be too careful—send suggested definitions for The Huckabee to huckabee@savagelove.net.

On my 21st birthday, my mother got so shitty drunk that she had to buy a pair of pants off a gas-station attendant after she pissed her own. She dropped her giant bag of pot in the limo. We put her to bed and she got up and tried to screw my roommate. Then she fell out of the top bunk of his bed and hurt herself so bad she grabbed her car keys and left. She got a DWI on the way to the hospital where they found out she broke her rib. What does all of this do to my psyche?

Please Answer Me

Nothing good, PAM. But I can't imagine that your mother's behavior on your 21st birthday did more damage to your psyche than your mother seeing her behavior recounted in a nationally syndicated sex-advice column is going to do to hers. So you're your mother's daughter after all, PAM.


Loads of gay men read your column. This makes you a good person to spread the word about the crazy "flesh-eating" MRSA strain that is running rampant in communities of gay men in Boston and San Francisco. According to the studies reported in the New York Times, gay men in SF are 13 times more likely to have this nasty staph bacteria. Infection results in gross and horrible problems like abscesses and ulcers (usually on the buttocks and genitalia). Maybe you could help inform people and keep them from getting infected with ass-and-genital-flesh-eating bacteria?

Keep It Clean

Not all gay men listen to me—things wouldn't look so grim for us on the STI front if more did—but for what it's worth:

Gay men can easily protect themselves from this new strain of MRSA. According to docs, it's as simple as scrubbing with soap and water after skin-to-skin contact. I wouldn't, however, describe MRSA as "running rampant." While gay men are likelier to be infected in the cities studied, we're talking about a larger share of a very small number of infections. And there have been documented outbreaks in other communities—particularly in the military—in the past. But, hey, washing up is good advice.

And here's some other good advice: Have more sex with fewer people. That was an effective health strategy at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic—guys who took it to heart tended to live—and it would be nice to see today's gay men adopt/readopt the more-sex/fewer-people strategy before the infectious shit hits the epidemiological fan. recommended


Download Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at www.thestranger.com/savage.


mail@savagelove.net

 

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13
As much as this topic gives me the creeps, I think dogs can give consent - by initiating (which they probably never fail to do.) It's also the reason I can't stand dogs : the second you look away, they start humping your leg! Gross. Anyway, good dog owners seem to be able to communicate with their dogs pretty well, and that RUFF would know what the dog is enthusiastic about vs what constitutes abuse. And sure, given the opportunity, the dog would probably go for some other dog instead, but they don't seem too choosy.
(And given the opportunity, I'd go for a japanese supermodel, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying other partners until Sayuri Anzu rolls around. )
I feel like I have to go wash my mouth with soap now, though.
Posted by Biev on January 7, 2013 at 10:33 AM · Report this
12
I am not really an animal person, and don't feel anywhere near as guilty about eating meat as I do about buying human slave-labour products (both of which I do frequently). So maybe I am not the best person to be commenting here, but I really agreed with everything you said Dan, and I thought you handled a horrible dilemma really well. While I am disgusted by the idea of human-on-animal sex, I also very much believe in unchangable sexual interests and can imagine how much it would suck to realise that is where your attraction lies.
Posted by anonymiss on February 3, 2012 at 8:23 PM · Report this
SlimJimPoisson 11
Wow, is this a bizarre thread. Before reading this I wouldn't have been able to believe that I could possibly consider that bestiality wasn't on the list of the most horrible crimes (just below aggravated bestiality).

What I find most enlightening is the idea that there is a difference between bestiality and zoophilia. It reminded me of an excellent article I read long ago about the difference between pedophiles and child molesters. The quote I remember ran along the lines of, "very few pedophiles are child molesters and very few child molesters are pedophiles."
Posted by SlimJimPoisson on November 13, 2011 at 11:12 PM · Report this
10
Quite simply, the biggest question is how RUFF or any other zoophile induces the animal to have sex. In my opinion, the only bestiality which could possibly be considered other than rape is what RUFF wants: to be penetrated. I can't imagine how he would force a dog to do this. Unfortunately for him, I don't believe many dogs would decide to either. Maybe he'll get lucky and find an anthrophile dog.
Posted by Platonic Cat-lover on August 6, 2011 at 1:45 AM · Report this
9
I think Savage is right in that domesticated animals are basically a slave class we do anything and everything to. As a society, we've been doing it for eons, and we're not suddenly going to go vegan en masse so that dogfuckers won't have the moral high ground.

The thing is that even for people who try to own pets ethically (and I'm one of them--no, I don't fuck them, I'm not a zoophile) it's impossible to erase the power advantage we have over them. For starters, many people in my country consider it abuse that I give my cats free access to the outdoors. Yes, animals (and people) live longer in captivity, but that doesn't mean they would choose that. They still have the choice to remain indoors all their lives, and guess what, it's not very appealing to them.

But consent is a larger topic than sexual consent--it also encompasses things like medical procedures. And when it comes to that, I do not give my animals the power of consent. I cannot communicate to a cat that she needs to go to the vet now to get shots so she doesn't get sick from going outside. And if communication were possible, she might agree that's in her best interest, but I've also had all my pets spayed/neutered, and I'm pretty sure that's a surgery few to none of them would be on board with. When I've had the power to have my cat's ovaries and uterus removed, which in addition to robbing her of a sex life and a family, alters her scent and therefore her social status through her hormones, and I've exercised this power, the idea of equality between us is a joke.

And yeah, when I move, they don't get asked nicely if they'd like to come along, they get shoved in carriers and dragged terrified to the new house. When they're dirty, they get held down and bathed. What we think of as being a good owner requires just that--being an owner. People who call themselves pet guardians and do all I do or more are delusional. Adult animals are not children. We take choice away from them, and we hold power over them, that's just a fact.

And actually, this is the reason zoophilia squicks me. Adult animals aren't best compared to children, they are best compared to slaves. A slave cannot give consent to their master, because the power imbalance is so huge it will taint any decision. Does the OP plan on using collars? Leashes? Getting his dog vetted? (I can safely assume he won't neuter, which I'm sure the dog will appreciate.) Will the dog have free and equal access to the world, to be allowed to go for a walk wherever and whenever he wants? Most dogs found strutting down the street alone without a collar would end up in the shelter. Dogs aren't free, they can't just "go for a walk" like we can.

The reason "nonverbal consent" isn't really enough for humans is because "your body was saying yes" is woefully inadequate. In a wild animal that chose to be with you without force or coercion or food-bribery, nonverbal consent might be enough, but in a slave animal, it just isn't. You're everything to this animal, you are the owner of the territory he lives on, you are the sole provider of his meals, you're probably the one to hold his leash, he knows he's a slave, and he knows his life may depend on pleasing you--his happiness almost certainly does. Under those circumstances, pretty much anyone would engage in sex with you, but that's not real consent, there's tons of baggage and subtle coercion going on. When a zoophile looks for a partner, they don't find someone independent and woo them--they acquire a slave and woo them. I think anyone can see why these two things are fundamentally different. Animals can consent to sex with their equals, but we are not their equals.

But on the other hand again, four million dogs are euthanized in US shelters each year. Read that number again. Four million. That's eighty thousand per week. And many more are abused, in a variety of ways. Honestly, if I had to be a dog, I'd rather be the pet of a zoophile than the kind that lives its life on a short chain in the yard and is never given any kind of socialization, or on death row in a shelter. The fact that it should be better is irrelevant to these dogs for whom it is NOT better, here and now. A life of coerced sex isn't the best, no, but it isn't the worst, either. (It's pretty much what all women lived with before women's suffrage. Men had all the power, and we had to fuck them for our suppers. Clearly not an ideal scenario, but something it's possible to live with.) I am also con-dogfucking, but RUFF is going to get his big yard, and I'm going to look the other way because he'd probably be getting that dog from a puppy mill (no shelter would give him an unneutered animal) and the big yard is better than the big drum of dead animals behind the shelter, which is where most mill puppies end up.
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Posted by theMaster on April 18, 2011 at 7:18 AM · Report this
8
This place need some zoophile/zoosexual comments.

1-Not everybody that is attracted to non-humans has a fetish, zoosexuality is a recognized sexual orientation (can't be cured) this is something we zoosexuals have know for long time and studies made by: Andrea Beets, Hani Miletski and others have show the world we are a sexual orientation, we didn't chose consciously to be like this, we love, we care and we want to have an emotional connection with the animal and we wouldn't never hurt them or rape them, they are not an object to us.

2-Many people are into bestiality for the taboo or the fetish, they only care about the sex, they don't have nor care to have an emotional connection with the animal. Like "Suggest No Animals For U" is wrongly calling himself a zoophile, he was a BESTIALISTS, he trespassed property to rape other people animals, instead of getting a dog (or horse) working the relationship and see if the animal would accept him as his mate. He had a fetish for animal sex, animals where like a masturbatory object to him.

3-ANIMALS ARE NOT CHILDREN, all animals reach a point in their life where they are mentally, physically, emotionally and sexually mature (so you can't compare an adult animal with a child or a retarded human with no skills to consent to sex) adult animals can consent to sex, they do have sex all the time and they are well equipped to say NO if they don't want sex. When they are adults and have consensual sex, they will not get harm in any way (unlike an immature human that will get hurt from having sex with others)

4-IS NOT ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE. Many places and countries is legal under secular logical liberal reasons, is only legal if the animal is not forced or abused, if the relationship is abusive the animal abuse law will punish the person for having abusive sex or for rape. The places where it is illegal, they use religion, morals and superstition as reasons to make it illegal (those are illogical reasons to base a law) those reasons are the same illogical reasons people use to make other things illegal (like homosexual sex)

5-YES THEY CAN CONSENT. Most adult animals have language, human can learn that language so he understand when the animal is consenting or denying consent (if you want to learn it you can Google "dog body language, "dog emotions" "how dogs communicate with humans", "non-verbal language", "non-verbal consent") Any ethologist can confirm that animals can say NO or YES (in their language) to activities that a human may try to do to them. If a person tries to masturbate a dog, the dog can give his consent by acting happy and humping the human hand and not showing that he dislike the behabior(this is also true for bitches) or if the dog wants to say NO he/she will said it by grunting, biting, moving away, barking, acting with fear or submission or discomfort, hiding the tail, lowering the ears, etc. A dog may use one or many combinations of those signals to say NO, a human that has spend time with the dog will learn how the dog says NO to sex or other behaviors and how the dog say YES to sex or other behaviors, so there is no fear of confusing the dog consent at any point as the human already understand well how that dog will say NO to things he/she doesn't consent.

6-ABOUT DISEASES OR PHYSICAL PROBLEMS. Animals don't have STDs, they can't get human STDs nor give them, they may have zoonosis but those are pretty rare on domestic animals that are healthy and well care, and any person can get a zoonosis not only by sex, just by petting the aniaml, touching something where he poop/pee/lick or even breathing dust with urine particles. No animal disease has become a STDs in 22,000 years (PS: AIDs was caused from eating badly cooked monkey meat and not by fucking a wild animal) now about physical problems, dogs have penis from 3 inches to 12 inches (there are even humans with 1 inches penis but the average size is 6 inches) and bitches can take those 12 inches penis from the male dogs. So if a male human gets a bitch of the right size according to his penis, he won't have a problem having consensual harmless and it will be pleasureful for the female dog and the human (yes bitches have a clitoris and multiple orgasm) Same goes for male dog on girl or on guy, girls can take a 12 inches without dieing with training with sex toys of a similar size, males humans can too with a lot of anal training with toys of similar size. About the knot, well it is only a problem it is forced, normally the dog penis will deflate and untie just like it happens with bitches, getting tie by a dog is not deadly, nor impossible, and the right size dog for you won't hurt you.

@Dan savage, pleas study dog ethology and dog sexual behabior and communication and all that is needed so you understand that they can consent, if the human knows all that and he/she wants to respect the animal opinion, there will be no abuse, and no rape, just two consensual adult animals having fun.
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Posted by Aluzky Irezumi on February 2, 2011 at 6:33 PM · Report this
7
It surprises me that people would compare bestiality with same-sex attraction or any other sort of adult human consensual sex.

Clearly the only real parallel is child molestation with a young person who is sexually aware. Girls start masturbating as young as 4, for example, and so they might technically feel good getting an orgasm but sex would still be wrong, wrong, wrong and so it would be for a dog.

I am a bit disturbed at Dan's suggestion about the house and the fence, and still more rolled eyes at the fact that he knows about the torture, abuse, etc in meat but WHATEVs utlimately this sort of this, like child abuse, needs to stay in fantasy land.
Posted by Extuno on January 9, 2011 at 8:22 PM · Report this
6
"For the record, I'm con bestiality. I think fucking dogs is wrong, wrong, wrong."

GASP! You... zoophobe! Rest assured, you'll swallow these words when the first "Bestiality Pride" parade comes marching.
Posted by Display name on April 8, 2010 at 8:57 AM · Report this
5
Right. Now, I'm rather accepting of most sexualities. I may not share them, but I do accept them, and am always willing to learn more or even sometimes talk about them.

Bestiality is something I experienced at an early age. I understood that it was frowned upon in society, and I honestly didn't care. To me, it was fantasy that I enjoyed. And that was what I liked; the idea of it. If it wasn't frowned upon, if it wasn't so painful, if it was more commonplace, if it was safe, then I might have. But this is not a world that is such. And honestly? It's likely that women will have a better time of it.

My advice for RUFF is to either stick with the fantasy aspect, or be very careful. Over time my primary fetishes shifted, but that was due mostly in part to being exposed to other fetishes and my non-dependence on a physical relationship. If he can deal with not really needing to physically touch them; if he can look at porn and imagine himself in it and have it work just as effectively, it might do him a world of good to shift bestiality from a primary fetish to a secondary or tertiary fetish. Don't get rid of it completely, but kill the strength of it so you can deal with other things. I found a middle ground and stuck with furries; not the ones in real life, I mean the ones you may find in erotic art (if you can even call it something that fancy sometimes).

RUFF, if you go ahead with house-with-high-fence advice, at least I will not persecute you. However, if you are looking for a way to change yourself or at least take a small fetish detour away from bestiality, you really might want to try exposing yourself to other stuff.

See, I sometimes still get turned on by bestiality, but I don't actively search for it very often. It's just sort of in the background, and I don't act on it.

Having a healthy mind when it comes to sexual desires is just as important as dealing with the body's needs. Figure out a middle ground, and you will likely be all the happier.
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Posted by Balance and Understanding on January 2, 2010 at 9:26 PM · Report this
4
You all are denying dogs to have sex in a one dog household. Not letting a dog to enjoy blowing their loads when needed, such. How would you feel if you were not aloud to ever have sex, or to jerk yourself off for life. You would go crazy. What do you feel the dogs are going through. If a male dog is willing to mount and screw a person, and if the person wants the dog to screw them, so let it be. They are both consenting to the act of sex. Besides, dog sex is a so much safer than human sex, and also it smells and tastes much better than human sex. I love my dogs............!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Doggielover on October 9, 2009 at 9:22 PM · Report this
3
I am in love with my dogs. So much more than all the other people. I don't want to be excepted, just to be left along to do what I and my dogs enjoy doing with each other. No one is getting hurt, harmed, nor abused. All of us are consenting to the acts.
Posted by Doggielover on October 9, 2009 at 9:12 PM · Report this
2
It's so funny, that gays want to be accepted by others and keep their alternative sexuality, and feel good about their choice, approving themselves, while at the same time, when presented with another alternative sexuality, are quick to suggest exactly the opposite, that the person stop doing it. I applaud Dan for his openness and understanding. Any kind of abusive relationship is bad, and any kind of loving, harmless relationship might benefit both partners. People are quick to assume something is bad just like some people think homosexuality is bad, without knowing the whole story. It was interesting to read the suggestions of alternatives because most gay men if asked to consider (for example) a woman as an alternative, might just laugh. If both partners are healthy and happy that is a good start.
Posted by easyboy on December 22, 2008 at 5:12 AM · Report this
1
Get on the internet. Start looking for bestiality forums and chat rooms. Find yourself a roommate into the same thing, and then you have the best of both worlds. You will have no worries of trying to hide what you are, you will have like-minded human companionship, and someone to help out with the animals when needed. The worst that can happen is you will find understanding people to talk to. There are lots of us out there, many with lots of experience in living with our "problem". Hope to see you around :)
Posted by Lonewolf on September 17, 2008 at 1:07 PM · Report this

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