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Boy on the Side
September 30, 2010
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Joe Newton
I'm a straight college guy, age 21, and I share a house with some buddies and a couple. This couple has been together for four years. They're both quite sexual, but she's got more libido than he does. I've got a big sex drive, too. Both of them have stated an openness to polyamorous situations. She started flirting with me, and flirting turned into no-sex threesomes with her and her BF every few nights.
I'm perfectly fine with poly, or I wouldn't be doing this, but it feels a bit awkward fingering her or sucking on her nipples while her boyfriend is in the room, or even the same bed. Both of us guys are straight and have no desire to see the other naked, so there's none of that going on. I've got no beef with guys who like beef, but being in a sexual situation with another guy—like the one going on here—makes me uncomfortable. And anyway, I feel like he's the "primary" one, the one she loves and kisses, so I move over whenever he shows interest. This is reinforced because she said that she didn't feel comfortable kissing other guys—although fingering is fine (?)—and I get the impression that he's not entirely happy that I'm cuddling and/or fingering his girlfriend while he plays Dawn of War five feet away from their bed.
I'm fine with being the "secondary" guy. But I'd much rather have some privacy if we—meaning me and her—are gonna try to get each other off, particularly if this arrangement of ours should progress to actual sex. But this is tough, since there's nowhere else in the house to go other than their room. Incidentally, we haven't told our other friends/housemates about this, although they could probably put two and two together; she screams in orgasm, and half an hour later I say good night and go back down to my room.
Any advice for making the situation more comfortable for all involved?
Can't Think Of A Clever Name
You're fingering her, you're sucking her tits, you're getting her off (screaming orgasms induced dicklessly), she's getting you off (your orgasms induced somehow or other)—which means, CTOACN, that this can't be described as a "no-sex" arrangement. You're not having vaginal intercourse, you're not kissing the girl, but you're having sex, and a lot of it.
But I wouldn't slap a 10-dollar word like "polyamorous" on what you're doing. You may be in a polyamorous relationship someday—with this couple, with some other couple—but all you're really doing at the moment is "messing around."
Okay, CTOACN, it sounds like this girl is pretty up front about what she's comfortable doing—no kissing, no vaginal intercourse (for you)—and clear about her boundaries. You need to be similarly assertive. Tell them both that you're not comfortable messing around while he's in the room. So instead of playing Dawn of War while you two mess around, her boyfriend could head to the library, go for a walk, do some reading in the communal space of your shared house, or—hey—go play Dawn of War in your room for a while.
If he balks, CTOACN, then you may want to reconsider the assumptions you've made about him. You're not comfortable with any hint of guy-on-guy, but he may want to be in the room while you're messing around with his girlfriend because he digs that hint. I'm not saying that he's bi, or that he wants to get with you, as the kids were only too recently saying—but I'm not saying he isn't bi or doesn't want to get with you, either. I guess what I'm saying is...
Considering (1) his presence every time you're messing around with her (surely the library, the living room, or your room would've occurred to him if he were uncomfortable being in the same room while you fingered O'Donnelled his girlfriend), (2) the limitations she's placed on the kind of sex she'll have with you, and (3) his tendency to suddenly "show interest" after you've been messing around with his girlfriend (at which point you "move over" and, presumably, out), I'm thinking this girl's boyfriend is into cuckolding-lite.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. But it could mean asking for quality time alone with his girlfriend would bring the messing around to an end.
IT GETS BETTER: Last week, I wrote about Billy Lucas, a 15-year-old kid in Indiana who took his own life after enduring years of bullying for being gay. Billy didn't identify as gay and may not have been gay. But the consequences of anti-gay bullying—whether the kid being harassed is gay or closeted or just different—are often the same: isolation, pain, despair, and suicide.
After last week's column went to press, I learned about another teenager—this one openly gay—who recently took his own life. Cody J. Barker was a 17-year-old high-school student in Shiocton, Wisconsin. Cody was a cyclist and a gardener and a Lady Gaga fan who had planned to start a gay-straight student alliance at his high school this fall. "He really cared about making schools a safe place for students," a friend of Cody's told the Wisconsin Gazette. "That wasn't always his own experience with school."
Billy Lucas in Indiana, Cody Barker in Wisconsin, Justin Aaberg in Minnesota—these three boys and countless other LGBT kids have committed suicide because they couldn't picture a future for themselves.
That's why my boyfriend and I launched the It Gets Better Project, a slightly grand name for a YouTube channel. We made a short video about our lives—the harassment we endured in school, the full and rewarding lives we enjoy now—and invited other LGBT adults to make and upload videos about their lives. The response has been completely overwhelming: thousands of members, hundreds of thousands of views, and more than 100 videos from people all over the world sharing their stories, all in an effort to let bullied and isolated and unhappy LGBT kids know that it gets better.
There are a couple of similar and ongoing projects that deserve a shout-out: the amazing and deeply moving I'm from Driftwood (www.imfromdriftwood.com) documents "true stories by gay people all over." Please check it out. And there's a large archive of YouTube videos from LGBT teenagers talking about their own coming-out experiences at www.tinyurl .com/2fuwffh. And if any LGBT teenagers reading this are contemplating suicide, please visit the Trevor Project (www.thetrevorproject.org), a suicide-prevention project for gay teenagers, or call its 24-hour hotline at 866-488-7386.
And here's a thought for people who are thinking about making videos for the It Gets Better Project: Many of the early submitted videos focused on something many gay adults have in common with gay kids—our experiences with being bullied. The pain we endured as kids should be touched on. But it would be great to see more videos that give gay young people a picture of the lives they could make for themselves if they just hang in there. LGBT kids who don't know any LGBT adults need to see—with their own eyes—that gay adults lead happy and rewarding lives. So if you decide to make a video—and I hope that you do—don't just share your pain. Share your joy. Give 'em hope. Save a life. www.youtube.com/itgetsbetterproject
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1
This feels very AA. In a good way. We are taught to share our 'experience, strength, and hope'. To tell what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. Simple. Life saving.
3
The project is great, I've plugged it on facebook (to the dismay of my fundie relatives, haha fuck you guys).
But I wish the column had more substance, too.
But I wish the column had more substance, too.
5
Thanks, Dan. The despair and suicides have to stop. Let's get the lawyers on these retrograde school districts now.
6
I'm a het who was bullied mercilessly, along with his best friend, in seventh and eighth grade. We weren't gay, we're not gay, but everyone decided we were and we never heard the end of it.
I would like to add my statement to the project.
I would like to add my statement to the project.
7
Sorry, but I've got to disagree that this is not polyamory. For me, polyamory is about fluidity, and the freedom to define one's relationships for oneself. The only absolute is consent: if it's not with the fully informed consent of all parties involved, it's not polyamory.
He is sexually involved with a woman who is in a committed relationship with another man, with the full consent of all involved. Sounds like a poly relationship to me.
He is sexually involved with a woman who is in a committed relationship with another man, with the full consent of all involved. Sounds like a poly relationship to me.
8
I am usually cringing and laughing from reading your article. Today is a first, I got goosebumps. Good work, Dan.
In memory of those who have taken their lives, it would be great if you could leave room at the end of Savage Love for an It Gets Better Moment, asking readers to write in with something positive about their queer lives.
In memory of those who have taken their lives, it would be great if you could leave room at the end of Savage Love for an It Gets Better Moment, asking readers to write in with something positive about their queer lives.
9
I have so much love for you Dan. What a beautiful outreach effort. I really believe that you will save some lives. God bless you for your work. I know you don't believe in God, but in my humble opinion, if He's up there, I think He believes in you.
10
@MG: sounds like a different column. There are rural teens who will have a hard time accessing a sex advice column.
11
@10, Fair point, but I have to say, if ever they would have an opportunity to be reached by a loving gay community, it's on the internet. In other words, some you'll never reach, but this is the best shot they have for that. Maybe sneaking on in a library at school and reading a column once a week will make the difference. Why is it no one in these videos talks about the amount of ass they're going to get? I mean, sentimentality is good, but let's face it, when you were a teen, wouldn't the concept of orgiastic sex keep you going? Maybe that's just me.
12
I don't know whether adding another victim to this list highlights the need for outreach and support or only adds to our shock and pain (and forgive me if it's the latter), but another of these occurred in my old hometown of Tehachapi, CA: http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2010/09/gay-t…
13
Thank you, Dan, for starting It Gets Better. I think outreach to young GLBT people is really important, because the middle and high school years can really suck if you're "different" in any way. Thanks for doing something to make it suck less, at the very least.
14
It Gets Better Project is a wonderful. And, not just for those young GLBTQ people out there, but for all young people. Good work, Dan and Terry. And a thank you to all who have made videos for the project.
16
@6: I've had the same thought. I'm straight but endured being called "faggot" all through high school--and this was in a supposedly "progressive" city. Dan, do you want us heteros to submit videos too? I can see valid arguments for and against it.
@7: I agree: "poly"=multiple; "amory"=loving. And the consent of all parties is implicit by contrast to "cheating"/"adultery". She's getting sex or "lovin'" from more than one person. So it's polyamory.
@7: I agree: "poly"=multiple; "amory"=loving. And the consent of all parties is implicit by contrast to "cheating"/"adultery". She's getting sex or "lovin'" from more than one person. So it's polyamory.
17
ABC News has a story on a Rutgers freshman who was secretly filmed/broadcast onto the internet while engaging in a homosexual act who then committed suicide by jumping off of the GW bridge.
I can only hope that the perpetrators are prosecuted to the full extent of the law (good luck) but at least they are both 18 and will have this crime on their records for the rest of their life AND that It Gets Better will help other teens (many of whom may be just starting to embrace their sexuality) to not feel like their only recourse is to end their life.
I can only hope that the perpetrators are prosecuted to the full extent of the law (good luck) but at least they are both 18 and will have this crime on their records for the rest of their life AND that It Gets Better will help other teens (many of whom may be just starting to embrace their sexuality) to not feel like their only recourse is to end their life.
18
I am pretty sure that this is not polyamorous because the relationship does not seem to extend beyond sexual (emotional, spritual, etc). It seems like the writer is being used in the same way that a sex toy is used. Just a thought!
20
"Dyke", as I was commonly referred to in high school was/is the incorrect epithet. If I have to identify, I use bisexual. Dan, how should I support 'It Gets Better' without putting my face all over the internet? (I am an unemployed teacher looking for work, and outing myself could really screw my job prospects) Suggestions, anyone?
21
I guess you don't realize how "progressive" your enviornment is until you see that many other people have it much worse. I had a friend Kevin who lived in my neigborhood and we attended HS together. Kevin is and has alway been gay. He was and is drop dead hansome. Women would drool and just flock to Kevin. Since Kevin attracted so many women it was always good to have him around. Kevin had many brothers and he could fight. Gay don't equal weak!! Kev was one of the guys he just happened to like boys. Black folks have a way of separating the person from their sexuality. In many black churches it seems par for the course to have a openly gay chior director but preach firey homophobic sermons.
23
My definition of polyamory is that there's emotional attachment involved. This usually causes heated debate when it comes up, but the (not-just-sex) poly community (iirc) usually sides with "dating and emotions falls under polyamory, if it's just sex it's called swinging". The swinging community sometimes wants to include themselves as a type of poly.
@20: There's one up there already with two teachers who have their faces covered, and tell their story with a series of written-on cards that they flip through.
@20: There's one up there already with two teachers who have their faces covered, and tell their story with a series of written-on cards that they flip through.
24
11: Ass is incredibly tempting when you're a teen, but when you're being abused, the biggest priority is getting it to stop. It Gets Better is exactly what these kids need to hear.
20: You had the bandanna-faced teachers, you can use a mask if you like, or you can focus on "high school was shit, things are better now" angle. Although personally, I think that if you still think you have to hide who you are, that undermines the basic message of the project.
CTOACN: The rules placed on everything and the guy's bad vibes make me think this is a newbie poly relationship that's full of newbie poly mistakes. Lots of people who are down with the idea of fucking/dating other people themselves don't feel quite so hot when the reality of their partner dating/fucking other people kicks in.
Watch both of them. If he passive-aggressively cockblocks you, or if she passive-aggressively queen bees you, that's nature's way of saying that this isn't going to work out. Get out until the two of them figure themselves out first.
20: You had the bandanna-faced teachers, you can use a mask if you like, or you can focus on "high school was shit, things are better now" angle. Although personally, I think that if you still think you have to hide who you are, that undermines the basic message of the project.
CTOACN: The rules placed on everything and the guy's bad vibes make me think this is a newbie poly relationship that's full of newbie poly mistakes. Lots of people who are down with the idea of fucking/dating other people themselves don't feel quite so hot when the reality of their partner dating/fucking other people kicks in.
Watch both of them. If he passive-aggressively cockblocks you, or if she passive-aggressively queen bees you, that's nature's way of saying that this isn't going to work out. Get out until the two of them figure themselves out first.
26
C'mon, bring back the old Dan. Two weeks ago we had a column lame enough for a high school newspaper, followed by the laudable but overwrought rural teen queer suicide saga.
Only real letter is from "Can't think", who believes it is unfair that he can't have private access to the F in the MMF. The world is not limited to his house. That he has not achieved this desired MF goal should speak to him louder than guidance from us, who have only the most primitive understanding of his condition.
Only real letter is from "Can't think", who believes it is unfair that he can't have private access to the F in the MMF. The world is not limited to his house. That he has not achieved this desired MF goal should speak to him louder than guidance from us, who have only the most primitive understanding of his condition.
27
I saw you in Newsweek - congrats! Right at the top of the scale :)
What a great idea. I loved the video from the repentant bully that now does charity work in the Castro, and a hundred others.
Thanks again, Dan and Terry.
What a great idea. I loved the video from the repentant bully that now does charity work in the Castro, and a hundred others.
Thanks again, Dan and Terry.
28
Oh my god. I wish this kid could have found the "it gets better" videos.
http://www.app.com/article/20100929/NEWS…
Horribly, it's too late for him, but good on ya Dan, for starting it. It will save lives. I just know it.
http://www.app.com/article/20100929/NEWS…
Horribly, it's too late for him, but good on ya Dan, for starting it. It will save lives. I just know it.
29
Oh my god. I wish this kid had seen the "it gets better" videos.
http://www.app.com/article/20100929/NEWS…
Horribly, it's too late for him. But the videos will save lives, I just know it. Good job.
http://www.app.com/article/20100929/NEWS…
Horribly, it's too late for him. But the videos will save lives, I just know it. Good job.
31
Saw the link on NPR and visited the itgetsbetterproject. What a moving and accessible idea. I loved the intimacy of hearing your and Terry's story. Please continue to share with readers of your blog, and beyond, ways that we can help young people of all sexual orientations.
32
Followed the NPR story to the itgetsbetter videos. What a moving and accessible project. I enjoyed hearing the intimacy of your and Terry's story. I hope it inspires others. Please continue to share with readers beyond your blog ways that we can help young people of all sexual orientations feel accepted.
33
I'm with 24. If you have to hide your face you shouldn't participate in the It Gets Better project. That sends the message that it didn't really get better.
34
Unfortunate circumstances for this comment but I keep forgetting to write one...
Dan! I live in Louisville via Chicago via Seattle via Boston. I used to wait on you at Boom Noodle actually
Point is.. the advice columnist here is egregious. So, so, so, so, so lame. My girlfriend and I miss you (she's from here but had you in the Dig in Boston and Reader in Chicago). I know we can read you online but it's not the same.
As you know, Kentucky could use you. Save these heathens!
Dan! I live in Louisville via Chicago via Seattle via Boston. I used to wait on you at Boom Noodle actually
Point is.. the advice columnist here is egregious. So, so, so, so, so lame. My girlfriend and I miss you (she's from here but had you in the Dig in Boston and Reader in Chicago). I know we can read you online but it's not the same.
As you know, Kentucky could use you. Save these heathens!
35
I sent it to Perez and he did one and sent others over. Everyone go show your support for the It Gets Better Project.
Good Job Dan.
Good Job Dan.
36
Dan, it's getting to the point where there is little reason to read Savage Love anymore. Just continue to cut and paste your Letters of the Day...
37
Sadly, people can't seem to learn this lesson. Just today a body was fished out of the Hudson; a freshman at Rutgers jumped to his death after two students hid a camera in his room, videotaped him having an encounter with another young man, and then broadcast it on their blog and tweeted about it.
38
I am writing to convey my profound admiration for the "It Gets Better" project. Ingenius and profound, even if it is thirty (or one thousand) years too late!
I just forwarded the cornerstone video(Dan & Terry's) to my 58 year old mother for approval and to aid this movement in going viral.
At present, there is one openly gay person in my family; my cousin, a rather successful Nurse Practicioner; and whom has been in a very happy relationship for (to my knowledge) 12 years(queue jealousy).
Regardless of the degree of saturation of LGBT in the media or my family; I give credit to my mother as the one person who established my cognitive acceptance of 'non traditional' families/lifestyles.
A brief personal history: the family on my father's side are devout Catholics (including myself and the aforementioned cousin).
At any rate, I was taught acceptance at an early age. Born in 1980, I was caught admist in a sea of 'weirdness" - our country's contagious involvement in the eternal MidEast conflict and the Advent of the AIDS plague were the news headlines of my youth. My grandmother passed away three years ago with nary a bad feeling towards any member of my family due to this unified love and acceptance.
In this respect, I am proud to say that the majority of my family are EXTREMELY ACCEPTING of my cousin's and other pursueants of an 'alternative lifestyle."
It has been my family's influence that created an open-minded individual in myself and my sibling. Since an early age, I have been titled "wierd," or different. It may be due to the fact that I am a friendly introvert, or any combinations of various reasons (according to Myers-Briggs I am an INTP).
In conclusion, I would like to state that I am rather jealous of all people whom are able to categorize themselves. The reason is that I am yet unable to find my fit within a specific group of people.
Alas, the acceptance of all differences is growing in this country, whether it be race or sexuality. So I am hopeful that people like myself (whom appear to be "normal") and those who have marked differences, are accepted and welcomed in our society without reserve.
Post Script- I would like to thank Terry (and everyone else) for posting an "It Gets Better" video. It was AWESOME to see you both talk about how you met and your family. I am a hopeless romantic.
More...
I just forwarded the cornerstone video(Dan & Terry's) to my 58 year old mother for approval and to aid this movement in going viral.
At present, there is one openly gay person in my family; my cousin, a rather successful Nurse Practicioner; and whom has been in a very happy relationship for (to my knowledge) 12 years(queue jealousy).
Regardless of the degree of saturation of LGBT in the media or my family; I give credit to my mother as the one person who established my cognitive acceptance of 'non traditional' families/lifestyles.
A brief personal history: the family on my father's side are devout Catholics (including myself and the aforementioned cousin).
At any rate, I was taught acceptance at an early age. Born in 1980, I was caught admist in a sea of 'weirdness" - our country's contagious involvement in the eternal MidEast conflict and the Advent of the AIDS plague were the news headlines of my youth. My grandmother passed away three years ago with nary a bad feeling towards any member of my family due to this unified love and acceptance.
In this respect, I am proud to say that the majority of my family are EXTREMELY ACCEPTING of my cousin's and other pursueants of an 'alternative lifestyle."
It has been my family's influence that created an open-minded individual in myself and my sibling. Since an early age, I have been titled "wierd," or different. It may be due to the fact that I am a friendly introvert, or any combinations of various reasons (according to Myers-Briggs I am an INTP).
In conclusion, I would like to state that I am rather jealous of all people whom are able to categorize themselves. The reason is that I am yet unable to find my fit within a specific group of people.
Alas, the acceptance of all differences is growing in this country, whether it be race or sexuality. So I am hopeful that people like myself (whom appear to be "normal") and those who have marked differences, are accepted and welcomed in our society without reserve.
Post Script- I would like to thank Terry (and everyone else) for posting an "It Gets Better" video. It was AWESOME to see you both talk about how you met and your family. I am a hopeless romantic.
39
@26 "Overwrought teen queer suicide saga"? Yes, you're absolutely right, let's have more letters from people wondering how to get their girlfriends to pee on them, and enough with this suicide prevention stuff! God, saving lives is just so...monotonous.
40
Why have I just met you?!? Might have something to do with living in TexAss for the last 7 years. We connect on so many levels... well, other than the fact that I have a vag. I have been listening nonstop to your podcasts! Amazing work...
A friend noticed my rantings on facebook about all the recent suicides and suggested that I watch some videos from the It Gets Better Project. I am going to share some of those videos in training entry-level-therapists for working with sexual minorities. That and the first 5 minutes of your podcast about the project.
My dissertation is on bisexuality and your callers are courageous in opening up to you! Thank you for your work... I am so glad that you are out there!! I am going to share you with EVERYONE.... now don't you feel like the dirty slut! <3 <3 <3 Stephany
A friend noticed my rantings on facebook about all the recent suicides and suggested that I watch some videos from the It Gets Better Project. I am going to share some of those videos in training entry-level-therapists for working with sexual minorities. That and the first 5 minutes of your podcast about the project.
My dissertation is on bisexuality and your callers are courageous in opening up to you! Thank you for your work... I am so glad that you are out there!! I am going to share you with EVERYONE.... now don't you feel like the dirty slut! <3 <3 <3 Stephany
41
@39 *shrug* I read this column for entertainment, not activism.
Suicide sucks, yes. It fucks up families, leaves friends wondering if they could have helped if they'd only known, makes everyone who loved the deceased feel hollow and empty. I get it.
Further, I'm for gay marriage and gay adoption and against teen suicide, straight or gay or whatever. But I don't read this column for two to three weeks of teen suicide PSAs, I read it because I want to know about the dude who caught his dick in a bear trap in service to some memorable, esoteric kink.
I doubt Dan's going to hemmorhage readers doing this, but if there are any other mostly vanilla straight dudes reading this, I'm pretty sure they'll get tired of it too.
Suicide sucks, yes. It fucks up families, leaves friends wondering if they could have helped if they'd only known, makes everyone who loved the deceased feel hollow and empty. I get it.
Further, I'm for gay marriage and gay adoption and against teen suicide, straight or gay or whatever. But I don't read this column for two to three weeks of teen suicide PSAs, I read it because I want to know about the dude who caught his dick in a bear trap in service to some memorable, esoteric kink.
I doubt Dan's going to hemmorhage readers doing this, but if there are any other mostly vanilla straight dudes reading this, I'm pretty sure they'll get tired of it too.
42
@39--By the way...
You may think suicide prevention columns are much more important than peeing on people columns, but you're wrong. I'm fairly sure most of the people who read Savage Love in their local alternative rag are straight, if only because most people in general are straight. Demographically speaking, we're the ones who put food on Dan's table. When he panders exclusively to his gay base with columns about how they can make videos for at-risk gay teens while pointedly excluding those breeders who pay his rent, and in fact devotes the majority of the space in his column to evangelize gay suicide prevention for two weeks in a row, we breeders get bored and offended, and eventually we head for the exits.
You want to keep us happy. Keep that in mind. If not for us, this column would have a much smaller fanbase and a whole lot less political power.
You may think suicide prevention columns are much more important than peeing on people columns, but you're wrong. I'm fairly sure most of the people who read Savage Love in their local alternative rag are straight, if only because most people in general are straight. Demographically speaking, we're the ones who put food on Dan's table. When he panders exclusively to his gay base with columns about how they can make videos for at-risk gay teens while pointedly excluding those breeders who pay his rent, and in fact devotes the majority of the space in his column to evangelize gay suicide prevention for two weeks in a row, we breeders get bored and offended, and eventually we head for the exits.
You want to keep us happy. Keep that in mind. If not for us, this column would have a much smaller fanbase and a whole lot less political power.
43
I'm sure it never occurred to Dan that there are no straight people in the world with any interest in preventing suicides that are brought on by anti-gay harassment. It was kind to point that out to him.
And, of course, Dan was obviously lying when he pointed out that straight people are often the victims of homophobic bullying, and when he said that one of the most recent victims to turn to suicide was very possibly straight.
And, of course, Dan was obviously lying when he pointed out that straight people are often the victims of homophobic bullying, and when he said that one of the most recent victims to turn to suicide was very possibly straight.
44
@43 If I'm told I'm not welcome to participate in an activist-type activity whose goals I and every other right-thinking breeder share and whose targets I would personally physically defend, I get irritated and a little offended. That goes double for an activity that's taking up two weeks of my Thursday entertainment.
45
I just read about Tyler Clementi. Your initiatives are so timely. I can only applaud what you are doing.
46
While his roommate is practically balling his girlfriend, he's playing a game called "Dawn of War"? Who scripted this, Tarantino?
47
Hey Dan, have you thought about reaching out to other LGBT celebrities to ask them to post videos?
48
I'm a 35 year old straight male, and I am heartbroken over Clementi's suicide. Just absolutely heartbroken.
This bothered me when I woke up this morning. I'm just so confused and angry.
I thought things were getting better for homosexuals in the US. I suppose I'll consider this my wake up call.
This bothered me when I woke up this morning. I'm just so confused and angry.
I thought things were getting better for homosexuals in the US. I suppose I'll consider this my wake up call.
49
@18 & @23
I really hate the party line that insists that "polyamory is about having a spiritual/emotional connection with more than one person." Yes, it can involve that. But it also can involve casual sex (I see "swinging" as a mostly heteronormative subset that falls under the larger umbrella of "polyamory"). For me, the salient factor is fluidity... I'm free to define my relationships in a way that works for me, and my partners.
If we are trying to promote tolerance and sex-positivity, it does not behoove us to distinguish casual sex as less than committed sex. And these things themselves are not discrete categories, but fluid and changeable.
I really hate the party line that insists that "polyamory is about having a spiritual/emotional connection with more than one person." Yes, it can involve that. But it also can involve casual sex (I see "swinging" as a mostly heteronormative subset that falls under the larger umbrella of "polyamory"). For me, the salient factor is fluidity... I'm free to define my relationships in a way that works for me, and my partners.
If we are trying to promote tolerance and sex-positivity, it does not behoove us to distinguish casual sex as less than committed sex. And these things themselves are not discrete categories, but fluid and changeable.
50
@41/42 Well, I'm a "straight breeder" just like you, and I haven't once found myself bored or offended. Appalled, outraged, sad, helpless....but not bored. So, as a "vanilla straight dude," you're not getting your weekly dose of freaky sex stories? That's tragic. And your "I'm pro-gay marriage, etc." is cool, if it weren't followed by, "I'm so bored with gay suicide." I don't see how you can separate the two. If this site/Dan's column loses readers like you, and yet manages to prevent even one kid's suicide, then I'd say that would definitely be worth it.
And: "You may think suicide prevention columns are much more important than peeing on people columns, but you're wrong."
When you say "important," you're talking about ad revenue. That's not the same meaning I would attach to "important" in this case.
And: "You may think suicide prevention columns are much more important than peeing on people columns, but you're wrong."
When you say "important," you're talking about ad revenue. That's not the same meaning I would attach to "important" in this case.
51
I disagree with those who say polyamory covers casual relationships - although it can. The problem is that polyamory has been somewhat co-opted by people who want another name for "messing around without considering anyone else's feelings". Whether poly sex is casual or committed, there should be respect, and yes, caring. "Amor" means love, not "hey at least I don't have to pay for a hooker".
Most of the regular folks I meet who claim to be poly are just the same old horndogs as before, they get mad if they don't get laid the same night, and they don't value the companionship or feelings of their partners UNLESS they're getting laid whenever they want it. The old fashioned word for this was "cad" and it applies to women as well as men. They view sex as a commodity rather than as a gift.
For me at least polyamory, like some other forms of love, implies acceptance and even gratitude. That could mean acceptance of other people as human beings, whose company is valuable at all times regardless of activity. So I could be in a "poly" relationship with someone where we rarely had sex. But for most of us on the street outside of these poly workshops, sex seems to be the MAIN or ONLY component of the connection.
Most of the regular folks I meet who claim to be poly are just the same old horndogs as before, they get mad if they don't get laid the same night, and they don't value the companionship or feelings of their partners UNLESS they're getting laid whenever they want it. The old fashioned word for this was "cad" and it applies to women as well as men. They view sex as a commodity rather than as a gift.
For me at least polyamory, like some other forms of love, implies acceptance and even gratitude. That could mean acceptance of other people as human beings, whose company is valuable at all times regardless of activity. So I could be in a "poly" relationship with someone where we rarely had sex. But for most of us on the street outside of these poly workshops, sex seems to be the MAIN or ONLY component of the connection.
52
@Happy the Homophobe (#41, 42): There are a lot of us nominally "straight" readers who appreciate Dan using his wide audience to further social-justice causes every once in a while (like putting out spam hits on homophobic schools). You think the sex/relationship advice is more important; power to you. But please don't presume to speak for all of "us", the "mostly vanilla straight dudes" reading the column. As Canuck point out, some (many?) of us are not getting bored.
(#44): What an excellent example of assumed heteronormative, patriarchal privilege! Two things here - first, I don't recall you being dis-invited to participate in It Gets Better. I, for one, have chosen to not post a video for fear of co-opting a discursive space intended for gay adults to tell gay teens about the fabulous gay lives they can have after high school, but there are also videos from straight people who were themselves bullied or were/are allies of kids who were/are bullied, one of which Dan featured on Slog. Second, while you might "get irritated and a little offended" at what you perceive to be a space that is not including you, you have to understand that as a straight man, institutionalized systems of power operate to privilege you. This is probably most of the reason you feel offended - people generally don't tell you "No, you can't participate," in contrast to all of the persons belonging to marked social groups, who are regularly pushed out of various social fora. Ultimately I agree that any sort of divisive tactic with respect to groups or identities (Identity Politics) is not ideal, but until we dismantle the INSTITUTIONAL vectors of oppression, identity politics and group-only discursive spaces for the oppressed are necessary as some of the few methods for combating these institutional practices.
Get the fuck over yourself: lots of people hear "No" every day and manage to deal. You can handle it every once in a while.
More...
(#44): What an excellent example of assumed heteronormative, patriarchal privilege! Two things here - first, I don't recall you being dis-invited to participate in It Gets Better. I, for one, have chosen to not post a video for fear of co-opting a discursive space intended for gay adults to tell gay teens about the fabulous gay lives they can have after high school, but there are also videos from straight people who were themselves bullied or were/are allies of kids who were/are bullied, one of which Dan featured on Slog. Second, while you might "get irritated and a little offended" at what you perceive to be a space that is not including you, you have to understand that as a straight man, institutionalized systems of power operate to privilege you. This is probably most of the reason you feel offended - people generally don't tell you "No, you can't participate," in contrast to all of the persons belonging to marked social groups, who are regularly pushed out of various social fora. Ultimately I agree that any sort of divisive tactic with respect to groups or identities (Identity Politics) is not ideal, but until we dismantle the INSTITUTIONAL vectors of oppression, identity politics and group-only discursive spaces for the oppressed are necessary as some of the few methods for combating these institutional practices.
Get the fuck over yourself: lots of people hear "No" every day and manage to deal. You can handle it every once in a while.
53
@51
I would argue that those people are perhaps assholes, but still poly as long as they're communicating honestly with their partners. If they're communicating the message you are getting from them, they're probably not having much luck in the poly community. On the other hand, if they're not communicating honestly, but being manipulative and opportunistic, that's not poly because it's not consensual. Manipulation is coercion, and I agree with you that it voids any poly cred.
My point is that polyamory is inclusive, not exclusive. We conduct ourselves with mutual respect for everyone's relationship choices, as long as those choices are executed respectfully.
I would argue that those people are perhaps assholes, but still poly as long as they're communicating honestly with their partners. If they're communicating the message you are getting from them, they're probably not having much luck in the poly community. On the other hand, if they're not communicating honestly, but being manipulative and opportunistic, that's not poly because it's not consensual. Manipulation is coercion, and I agree with you that it voids any poly cred.
My point is that polyamory is inclusive, not exclusive. We conduct ourselves with mutual respect for everyone's relationship choices, as long as those choices are executed respectfully.
55
[unrelated to this week's column]
Dan, you may have addressed this bigot already, but if not, he deserves your attention:
Michigan Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell is stalking the student assembly president of the University of Michigan.
http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/5208/p…
Dan, you may have addressed this bigot already, but if not, he deserves your attention:
Michigan Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell is stalking the student assembly president of the University of Michigan.
http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/5208/p…
56
"Heteronormative, patriarchal privilege"...
You've nailed it on the head!
Dang white men complaining.
You've nailed it on the head!
Dang white men complaining.
57
Regarding the It Gets Better complaints here. I am a het white girl who reads this column for more than entertainment. Yes, it's highly entertaining as well. And it's free, so what are you whinging about? Go watch Friends or something if you think the world owes you free entertainment with no obligation on your part.
Dan doesn't spend all his time pimping causes but when he does it's something important.
Maybe that guy in #41 and 42 is just a troll, trying to bait us all. With a name like Happy the Homophobe he must be intentionally cruel. Well, so what. That's not most of Dan's readers!
Dan doesn't spend all his time pimping causes but when he does it's something important.
Maybe that guy in #41 and 42 is just a troll, trying to bait us all. With a name like Happy the Homophobe he must be intentionally cruel. Well, so what. That's not most of Dan's readers!
58
Actually, while this other guy might be into cuckolding, it's also very possible that she encouraged him to let her play with someone else, and, while he's not 100% ok with it, he'd rather be in the room to make sure the boundaries stay put (and maintain, at least in his mind and by his presence, the alpha/primary role). I go back and forth on whether I'm poly or not, and I haven't always been comfy with my boy playing with other people when I'm not there- we've played as a couple, and sometimes he'll get so distracted by new-shiny-girl that I have to move in at some point so I don't feel left out. That could also be a possibility with this guy- she likes the thrill of something new, but forgets to give her boyfriend some loving attention. To be fair to her, it's hard to pay attention sexually to two men who are trying to avoid their cocks touching or seeing another naked man- someone's likely to get left out.
Personally, unless it's a cuckolding situation, I maintain the best threesome method is have the boy pick the other boy, have the girl pick the other girl. It saves a lot of hassle.
Personally, unless it's a cuckolding situation, I maintain the best threesome method is have the boy pick the other boy, have the girl pick the other girl. It saves a lot of hassle.
59
Thank you, @52. You hit the nail on the head. It doesn't matter that I'm a (mostly) straight white chick. I plastered the It Gets Better project all over my facebook & twitter because people deserve human rights. It doesn't matter what kind of people. Everybody does - but especially kids. I'm for it any time someone with a big audience takes the time to work towards making the world a better place, while at the same time serving as a source of levity in a time that's sometimes dark and troubled. More power to Dan, more power to the project, and more power to bullied kids everywhere.
So you whiner rejects that want to get back to jacking off on other people's kinks can go whine to yourself in the corner, because the vast majority of Dan's audience are decent human beings, whatever their orientation - be that sexual or political, and care enough about human beings other than themselves to be OK with a bit of their weekly entertainment being donated to saving lives.
So you whiner rejects that want to get back to jacking off on other people's kinks can go whine to yourself in the corner, because the vast majority of Dan's audience are decent human beings, whatever their orientation - be that sexual or political, and care enough about human beings other than themselves to be OK with a bit of their weekly entertainment being donated to saving lives.
61
It Gets Better almost makes me wish I was gay so I could make a video for it. Excellent job, Dan.
62
This little threesome isn't a threesome, or poly-anything, or even cuckolding. You're basically doing the foreplay for the dude while he plays video games. I didn't hear anything about her doing anything for you. I'm assuming you get off when you go back to your room.
I have to say, though, it sounds like a great deal for the gal. I just don't see what you're getting out of it....except all worked up.
I have to say, though, it sounds like a great deal for the gal. I just don't see what you're getting out of it....except all worked up.
64
In the Washington, DC area, kids can contact SMYAL "The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League (SMYAL) is the only Washington, DC metro area service organization solely dedicated to supporting lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and questioning (LGBTQ) youth. Founded in 1984, SMYAL is a 501 (c) (3) nonprofit organization.Our mission is to promote and support self-confident, healthy, productive lives for LGBTQ youth ages 13-21 as they journey from adolescence into adulthood."
www.smyal.org
www.smyal.org
65
@44
While I understand that you want to participate, I don’t think being offended is a proper response. It’s like if someone wanted to start a movement showing how women can have successful careers. Having a man show up and say, “I have a successful career!” would not be helpful. Yes, it’s great that the man has a successful career. No one is denying it. But the whole point is to show that just because you are a woman doesn’t mean you can’t have a successful career.
I’m straight. I was bulled. I suffered from depression. I was suicidal. Some of the things people are talking about in their videos (the fear invoked by just walking by the building where I was bullied, etc etc) really speak to me. But do you know what I had that gay kids often don’t? Successful role models. When a gay kid is bullied because they are gay, they might never have seen a real person who was gay and survived the bullying to go on to a better life. For all that it was terrible for me to be bullied, I regularly saw people just like me who had survived bullying like the bullying I had gone through. This Project is an attempt to give gay kids what I already had.
While I understand that you want to participate, I don’t think being offended is a proper response. It’s like if someone wanted to start a movement showing how women can have successful careers. Having a man show up and say, “I have a successful career!” would not be helpful. Yes, it’s great that the man has a successful career. No one is denying it. But the whole point is to show that just because you are a woman doesn’t mean you can’t have a successful career.
I’m straight. I was bulled. I suffered from depression. I was suicidal. Some of the things people are talking about in their videos (the fear invoked by just walking by the building where I was bullied, etc etc) really speak to me. But do you know what I had that gay kids often don’t? Successful role models. When a gay kid is bullied because they are gay, they might never have seen a real person who was gay and survived the bullying to go on to a better life. For all that it was terrible for me to be bullied, I regularly saw people just like me who had survived bullying like the bullying I had gone through. This Project is an attempt to give gay kids what I already had.
67
Are you aware of this?:
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/09/30/mic…
Mich Ass't Attorney General cyberbullies gay student body president
Michigan Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell has become so fixated on a particular gay University of Michigan student that he runs a blog about the student called "Chris Armstrong Watch."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwObjKZg9…
Roger Ebert writes:
Study Shirvell closely here [video abo. You may, as I do, see a prim, repressed, rigid fanatic. As Cooper pointedly asks, would you want this man representing you? Cooper refers to Shirvell representing a hypothetical gay person. I am straight, and I gotta tell you, I wouldn't even want to be on the same internet with him.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/09/30/mic…
Mich Ass't Attorney General cyberbullies gay student body president
Michigan Assistant Attorney General Andrew Shirvell has become so fixated on a particular gay University of Michigan student that he runs a blog about the student called "Chris Armstrong Watch."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwObjKZg9…
Roger Ebert writes:
Study Shirvell closely here [video abo. You may, as I do, see a prim, repressed, rigid fanatic. As Cooper pointedly asks, would you want this man representing you? Cooper refers to Shirvell representing a hypothetical gay person. I am straight, and I gotta tell you, I wouldn't even want to be on the same internet with him.
68
Thank you for doing this. Not everyone gets the coming out my brother got; "You're gay. Oh, fine with me. I was just worried you were going to hit me up for money."
Gave him a hug and was glad I could now meet the person his was dating. (Who is awesome!! My husband and I have altered our will to leave our daughter to Uncle Andy and Uncle John if anything happens to us. They are the best.) He finally felt complete to our family.
EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THIS.
Gave him a hug and was glad I could now meet the person his was dating. (Who is awesome!! My husband and I have altered our will to leave our daughter to Uncle Andy and Uncle John if anything happens to us. They are the best.) He finally felt complete to our family.
EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THIS.
70
I hate it when people pull the "X is inclusive, not exclusive" line when they're trying to explain why their definition is right. It's a fallacious argument.
Any term which describes some group of people is both inclusive and exclusive. If it were only inclusive, it would apply to everyone. If it were only exclusive, it would apply to nobody.
'Polyamory' has a definition, and it excludes those people who don't fit the definition, and includes those who do. Lots of people who use it (including me) use it to mean loving relationships, not ones which are only sexual. When someone else uses it and I don't have context, though, I understand that they may be using it (from my point of view) 'incorrectly'.
That said, even the dictionary guys can't agree (Oxford says 'sexual', Merriam-Webster says 'romantic'), so I suppose it's still up for grabs.
Any term which describes some group of people is both inclusive and exclusive. If it were only inclusive, it would apply to everyone. If it were only exclusive, it would apply to nobody.
'Polyamory' has a definition, and it excludes those people who don't fit the definition, and includes those who do. Lots of people who use it (including me) use it to mean loving relationships, not ones which are only sexual. When someone else uses it and I don't have context, though, I understand that they may be using it (from my point of view) 'incorrectly'.
That said, even the dictionary guys can't agree (Oxford says 'sexual', Merriam-Webster says 'romantic'), so I suppose it's still up for grabs.
72
Dan: I think what you are doing is great, we need to get help and proper education to the TEEN GLBT community. They need to know that they are not alone and that it does get better, not perfect but better. You have my full support. I finally came out to my parents that I'm bisexual about a yr ago and they said well as long as you are happy we don't care who your with, as long as he or she treats you good then we're happy.
74
Thank you for the "It gets better" project. I shared it with my gay 13 y.o old daughter who came out last year in 7th grade. Funny thing, is that is the exact phrase that I, her awesome pediatrician, her understanding school counselor, and our family"s gay friends have been saying to get her through these next few years.
We would love to see more gay women post, but thanks to all who have told your story. Each and every one gives kids like my daughter (and even more, the kids that don"t have supportive friends and parents) encouragement and strength.
We would love to see more gay women post, but thanks to all who have told your story. Each and every one gives kids like my daughter (and even more, the kids that don"t have supportive friends and parents) encouragement and strength.
75
CTOACN:
Talk to each of them, individually and privately, about what they want out of it. It might be a cuckolding-lite fetish; it might be the girlfriend having whipped her boy so hard he claims he doesn't mind, or it might be the boyfriend wanting an excuse to break up with the girl. And those are the simple possibilities... it's so easy for things to be so much more screwed up than those choices.
If you feel like something's not right about the two of them (if you get a different impression about this arrangement from either of them individually), you don't have to be there when their relationship goes to hell. And if everything is on the up-and-up, wouldn't you be happier knowing exactly where each of the other people in this stands?
Talk to each of them, individually and privately, about what they want out of it. It might be a cuckolding-lite fetish; it might be the girlfriend having whipped her boy so hard he claims he doesn't mind, or it might be the boyfriend wanting an excuse to break up with the girl. And those are the simple possibilities... it's so easy for things to be so much more screwed up than those choices.
If you feel like something's not right about the two of them (if you get a different impression about this arrangement from either of them individually), you don't have to be there when their relationship goes to hell. And if everything is on the up-and-up, wouldn't you be happier knowing exactly where each of the other people in this stands?
76
@65 Fine, fair enough. But I thought this was the "It Gets Better" project, not the "Queer Role Model Project." Why not open it up to the folks who want to tell these kids "There are plenty of straight people who will love you and accept you?" If the only people who post are gay, doesn't that send the message that tolerance is a pipe dream, and that the only safe people are gay people?
For what it's worth, both of my friends who drove me to the hospital when I got my nose broken for smarting off to my dad were gay as a Christmas carol. I love them and I miss them now that I've moved away.
For what it's worth, both of my friends who drove me to the hospital when I got my nose broken for smarting off to my dad were gay as a Christmas carol. I love them and I miss them now that I've moved away.
77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSb1NHnp7…
here you go!
not sure how to add it to the channel, though
here you go!
not sure how to add it to the channel, though
78
Tiler Clemeti, a young violonist, has just killed himself... I'm so sad.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canad…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canad…
79
I don't care if they are poly or not. Probably not, but as for the reasoning of the boyfriend always being present..seems very common for men to want to see their girlfriends getting it on with another man. It is allows them to see their girlfriend in a more pornographic light. They don;t have the same angle when they are the one involved in the sex. And sick as it is, people get off on a little jealousy too. I don't think the boyfriend shows signs of bisexuality.
80
This is such a great thing you're doing with the It Gets Better Project. It really, really meets a need.
81
Proof that things don't always get better once a person gets out of high school, courtesy of NPR:
"New research shows campuses have not become significantly safer for students and faculty who are not straight. Sue Rankin, a Penn State professor, talks to Ari Shapiro about her research into gay, lesbian and transgender issues on college campuses."
-- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…
Carefully choose a college or university to go to if you're les/bi/gay/transgendered. I went to a really conservative college, and only told five people (four of them profs in one of the most liberal departments at the school) about my status. I still had a positive college experience, but things would've been quite different if I'd gone someplace where I felt safer being my true self with more people.
I can see why Dan wants people to focus more on positive outcomes in their videos, but I can also see why people would be inclined to focus on the negative side of things.
"New research shows campuses have not become significantly safer for students and faculty who are not straight. Sue Rankin, a Penn State professor, talks to Ari Shapiro about her research into gay, lesbian and transgender issues on college campuses."
-- http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…
Carefully choose a college or university to go to if you're les/bi/gay/transgendered. I went to a really conservative college, and only told five people (four of them profs in one of the most liberal departments at the school) about my status. I still had a positive college experience, but things would've been quite different if I'd gone someplace where I felt safer being my true self with more people.
I can see why Dan wants people to focus more on positive outcomes in their videos, but I can also see why people would be inclined to focus on the negative side of things.
82
You know, based on what's going on in New Jersey right now with an 18 year old kid who threw himself off of a bridge because his roommates allegedly filmed and posted a "tryst" he had with another man....
It just makes me ill the whole thing. People need to think on the consequences of their actions as clearly we as a community are not reaching those of us most at risk and in need of help. A little kindness and common sense can save a life. Such waste:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/worl…
It just makes me ill the whole thing. People need to think on the consequences of their actions as clearly we as a community are not reaching those of us most at risk and in need of help. A little kindness and common sense can save a life. Such waste:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/worl…
83
hi Dan.. how about this guy in MI... just watched Anderson's clip... my heart is broken with all te young men who have died lately... who is this idiot Shirvell?
84
Don't tell Dan, but this is his father here to say that I love the project. My son is a loving and wonderful man, a great father for my grandson and even when his column feels "icky" to this old straight dude, I enjoy and appreciate what my son has accomplished. I don't have a clue about making utube videos or whatever, but I would suggest that some of us parents of gay children who were neither surprised nor horrified about having a gay child could help these young people with our testimony. It CAN be better and it WILL be better for "You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars, you have a RIGHT to be here".
God Bless you all.
God Bless you all.
85
Dan, I love you and your boyfriend for your facebook project. Thank you for giving hope for the lonely, for the isolated, for the hurting, and those who just want to know that someday "it gets better."
86
First off, Dan, you ROCK!!! I'm a huge fan of your column. You've made me an even bigger fan with this project. Simply INCREDIBLE! <3
87
"cockolding-lite" LOL. But I think this is more than that.
Is it or isn't it polyamory? I'd say a real polyamorous relationship would include honest dialogue between the participants with at least loosely defined boundaries; that it would exclude a threesome where one of the participants not only doesn't understand the rules, but doesn't even understand what game he's playing.
CTOACN, I believe you're actually being dominated by this guy. You are one of his submissives. A role that you don't fully comprehend and seemingly don't desire to play. That pair has their own kinks and set of rules- you're simply along for their ride- a tool.
You want time alone with this chick and are not getting it. Why not? Because, dude, she already has a boyfriend! It's not poly, it's not a 'friends with benefits" scenario, and it doesn't seem to be satisfying to you --which could then extend to, it's not healthy for you. If it were healthy, you'd be discussing your desires with the two of them rather than on an advice blog.
Is it or isn't it polyamory? I'd say a real polyamorous relationship would include honest dialogue between the participants with at least loosely defined boundaries; that it would exclude a threesome where one of the participants not only doesn't understand the rules, but doesn't even understand what game he's playing.
CTOACN, I believe you're actually being dominated by this guy. You are one of his submissives. A role that you don't fully comprehend and seemingly don't desire to play. That pair has their own kinks and set of rules- you're simply along for their ride- a tool.
You want time alone with this chick and are not getting it. Why not? Because, dude, she already has a boyfriend! It's not poly, it's not a 'friends with benefits" scenario, and it doesn't seem to be satisfying to you --which could then extend to, it's not healthy for you. If it were healthy, you'd be discussing your desires with the two of them rather than on an advice blog.
88
I don’t mean to be a party-pooper regarding the "It Gets Better" campaign. I think it's a noble effort whose goal to curb teen suicide trumps any amount of cynicism. But as a gay man in his 40s, I have to say, in my opinion, that homophobia has only increased in the last decade or so namely as a result of proliferate evangelic Christian proselytizing, a leaning to the right of center politics, the erosion of civil liberties, a dumbing-down of education, and a strengthening of a pro-militarization movement. Also, the internet has only served to highlight bullying. I’ve seen the word "faggot" used pejoratively countless times on YouTube and other blog sites - including yours. (No matter how much gays and lesbians try to claim this word as their own, purportedly to nullify it’s effect, it can still be hurtful to hear or read it if it's meant to sting.)
To gloss over these facts doesn't help gay teens learn how to cope with the inevitable alienation or harassment they will likely face at some point in their lives. And those facts don't change as we get older. In fact, I think they actually get worse because folks don’t have as much compassion for mature people and they don’t see their homosexuality as “a phase they’re going through.” However, what does change for the better is our ability to stand up to discrimination, but this takes a strong sense of self, love of self and others, education, and independence. The latter is something you're not addressing head-on, I think. If you're going to set an example for the gay community, Mr. Savage, then you should acknowledge to gay teens that you’re financially independent, which makes a difference because you don't have to rely on others for income or sustainability. I say this mostly because in your post you encourage us to speak about our positive experiences as opposed to the bullying we’ve faced, but most gays and lesbians, or anyone for that matter, are not so privileged as to be financially independent, or should I say, wealthy. In other words, you don't have to face systemic discrimination; you can simply walk away from it without suffering debilitating financial consequences as a result. Sure it gets better - if you're rich - no doubt! ‘Got fired from your job 'cause you're gay? Whatever! Paris sounds nice this time of year... Go there!’ That's not real life for most people. I guess my point is that the "It Gets Better" campaign is a good thing, but let's just be real about the potential consequences most gays and lesbians will likely face by being “out.”
I'll do my part by saying that my being gay actually spurred my desire to earn an education because, initially, I chose to see myth for what it really is – a human constructed value-based belief system. As a result, I chose to study mostly science and history to broaden my own paradigm, and this has helped me to be a stronger person emotionally and intellectually. I've also been open about my sexuality since I was a young teen because I don’t think anyone’s opinion is any greater than my own – especially if it’s about me! And it doesn’t hurt that I grew up in the Netherlands and Germany, a much more accepting environment for homosexuals than say a rural small town in the Midwest, which I’ve also lived in. I also love studying astronomy, which helps people think outside of the box. In any event, I don't care what other people think regarding my sexuality, which has served me well. But it’s also cost me some family members, “friends,” and I've had to quit a few good paying jobs here and there along the way, as I refuse to accept crumbs, as Larry Kramer would say. That’s been the cost of maintaining my dignity. And I’m not alone. I understand the campaign isn’t all about this; it’s about helping gay teens overcome suicidal thoughts by focusing on how life gets better – I get that – and as I’ve already said, those efforts trump my cynicism. But I also want gay teens to be prepared for a harsh reality that sometimes homophobia will put obstacles in their way. I think speaking truths is the best way to lend a hand and help them forge and don the armor they will need to survive and grow in this world. I think this comes from relating real-world life experiences. Does it get better? Yes and no. Our ability to withstand discrimination gets better as we age, but homophobia remains as vigilant as ever. Regardless, suicide is not the way out. It’s just an end with no coming back. Finito! And even a cynic like me must admit that life is too precious to throw away and can be pretty damn good, all in all. There are hills and valleys along the way. The valleys stink, but the highs are awesome and worth the ride - and they’re more powerful than the lows! Fortunately, memory tends to be kind. So stick around, it’s well worth it. You’re worth it. I’ve been in the same relationship for 15 years with the love of my life – that alone has been worth it! If I was to plop dead tomorrow I would go with a smile on my face because I loved myself and that love radiates to others – and it feels really good. Okay kids… go run and play now. Lecture over.
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To gloss over these facts doesn't help gay teens learn how to cope with the inevitable alienation or harassment they will likely face at some point in their lives. And those facts don't change as we get older. In fact, I think they actually get worse because folks don’t have as much compassion for mature people and they don’t see their homosexuality as “a phase they’re going through.” However, what does change for the better is our ability to stand up to discrimination, but this takes a strong sense of self, love of self and others, education, and independence. The latter is something you're not addressing head-on, I think. If you're going to set an example for the gay community, Mr. Savage, then you should acknowledge to gay teens that you’re financially independent, which makes a difference because you don't have to rely on others for income or sustainability. I say this mostly because in your post you encourage us to speak about our positive experiences as opposed to the bullying we’ve faced, but most gays and lesbians, or anyone for that matter, are not so privileged as to be financially independent, or should I say, wealthy. In other words, you don't have to face systemic discrimination; you can simply walk away from it without suffering debilitating financial consequences as a result. Sure it gets better - if you're rich - no doubt! ‘Got fired from your job 'cause you're gay? Whatever! Paris sounds nice this time of year... Go there!’ That's not real life for most people. I guess my point is that the "It Gets Better" campaign is a good thing, but let's just be real about the potential consequences most gays and lesbians will likely face by being “out.”
I'll do my part by saying that my being gay actually spurred my desire to earn an education because, initially, I chose to see myth for what it really is – a human constructed value-based belief system. As a result, I chose to study mostly science and history to broaden my own paradigm, and this has helped me to be a stronger person emotionally and intellectually. I've also been open about my sexuality since I was a young teen because I don’t think anyone’s opinion is any greater than my own – especially if it’s about me! And it doesn’t hurt that I grew up in the Netherlands and Germany, a much more accepting environment for homosexuals than say a rural small town in the Midwest, which I’ve also lived in. I also love studying astronomy, which helps people think outside of the box. In any event, I don't care what other people think regarding my sexuality, which has served me well. But it’s also cost me some family members, “friends,” and I've had to quit a few good paying jobs here and there along the way, as I refuse to accept crumbs, as Larry Kramer would say. That’s been the cost of maintaining my dignity. And I’m not alone. I understand the campaign isn’t all about this; it’s about helping gay teens overcome suicidal thoughts by focusing on how life gets better – I get that – and as I’ve already said, those efforts trump my cynicism. But I also want gay teens to be prepared for a harsh reality that sometimes homophobia will put obstacles in their way. I think speaking truths is the best way to lend a hand and help them forge and don the armor they will need to survive and grow in this world. I think this comes from relating real-world life experiences. Does it get better? Yes and no. Our ability to withstand discrimination gets better as we age, but homophobia remains as vigilant as ever. Regardless, suicide is not the way out. It’s just an end with no coming back. Finito! And even a cynic like me must admit that life is too precious to throw away and can be pretty damn good, all in all. There are hills and valleys along the way. The valleys stink, but the highs are awesome and worth the ride - and they’re more powerful than the lows! Fortunately, memory tends to be kind. So stick around, it’s well worth it. You’re worth it. I’ve been in the same relationship for 15 years with the love of my life – that alone has been worth it! If I was to plop dead tomorrow I would go with a smile on my face because I loved myself and that love radiates to others – and it feels really good. Okay kids… go run and play now. Lecture over.
89
Dan, thanks so much for touching on this topic. It is a very hard for parents to think any child is at risk. I wish that the parents would step up and stop the picking on each other for just being differnt. I was picked on for being a gay it started as soon as I started school. The thing that kept me safe was the power of my Mother she loved me more than any one it crossed my mind many times to end it but I would think of her and it made me stronger no one should have to die just for being gay.
90
Dan, what a wonderful idea -- back in the mid 1970's I had a friend kill himself and now, looking back, I'm fairly sure he was gay. I figured it out many years ago and it still breaks my heart to think the world will no longer have his goofy smile and sense of humor. I am so happy that you have started this project. Keep up the good work. Blessings to you, dear man. Denise
91
Ellen made an excellent, heart-wrenching speech on her show the other day about the recent suicides with respect to bullying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br7nbQSIy…
92
To Dan's dad, posting at #84: hooray for you! My parents too have been completely supportive of my gay brother and his (legal!) husband, as have the friends of the family and the entire community. It takes parents like you, who are completely convinced of their child's general wonderfulness, that helps thing to get better. As a straight woman with a teen who adores her gay uncles, I am posting and re-posting information on "It Gets Better" on Facebook, in my classes, and by e-mail. Spread the word!
93
Dear Mr. Savage Sr. By the time I was half finished reading your letter, I was crying. As I type, I still am. It's not that I (gay), my gay younger sister and our gay younger brother didn't have incredibly supportive parents, AND straight older sibs, we did. We sibs are now 56-70y/o. The elder generation is now gone. We lost our mom two years ago. Your letter brought them all to the forefront of my alleged mind. I'm better now... Thanks!
Oh yeah! Thanks to Dan too!!
Oh yeah! Thanks to Dan too!!
95
While I support what Dan's doing with the It Gets Better Project, I'm a little annoyed that the focus is on gay teens.
There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it ignores the reality that high school for a lot of people (myself included) is/was hellish.
You do NOT have to be gay to get bullied in high school. You don't even have to be black (or some other minority) in a predominantly white school. You just have to be a teeny-tiny bit different.
In my high school, if you weren't Mormon, if you were being raised by a single parent, and especially if you were poor -- you got beat down regularly by the popular/athletic "in" crowd.
How about instead of telling GLBT teens it gets better, you tell ALL the kids that?
Case in point:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010…
There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it ignores the reality that high school for a lot of people (myself included) is/was hellish.
You do NOT have to be gay to get bullied in high school. You don't even have to be black (or some other minority) in a predominantly white school. You just have to be a teeny-tiny bit different.
In my high school, if you weren't Mormon, if you were being raised by a single parent, and especially if you were poor -- you got beat down regularly by the popular/athletic "in" crowd.
How about instead of telling GLBT teens it gets better, you tell ALL the kids that?
Case in point:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010…
96
Arrgh.
Being young and slutty isn't exotic - it's normal behavior. Good times, good times.
CTOACN sounds like a bit of a pussy, as does the 'cuckold'.
Either steal the girlfriend or stop fingerbanging her, shithead.
Being young and slutty isn't exotic - it's normal behavior. Good times, good times.
CTOACN sounds like a bit of a pussy, as does the 'cuckold'.
Either steal the girlfriend or stop fingerbanging her, shithead.
97
The bullying of the kid in Indiana is very sad.
Indiana's rough. The 'normal' young people try like hell to get out as soon as they can, so it would suck to be a sexual minority.
Indiana's rough. The 'normal' young people try like hell to get out as soon as they can, so it would suck to be a sexual minority.
98
Thank you so much! I have been a longtime fan of your contributions to TAL. This is such a beautiful project, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
99
I know it's not exactly along the same lines but the most recent season of ANTM covered a segment on bullying. Every model chose a word used against her to bully her and one of the models being gay chose queer as her hurtful word. She explained how much trauma and pain she associated with that word and what it meant to her.
They also had to choose a power word and she chose free. Seeing the emotion she felt with that word really moved me and as superficial as most of the show can be, that episode really highlight diversity and how it should be valued.
They also had to choose a power word and she chose free. Seeing the emotion she felt with that word really moved me and as superficial as most of the show can be, that episode really highlight diversity and how it should be valued.
100
Thanks Dan and Terry for putting this together. Losing loved ones through such circumstances is unacceptable and inhumane. Keep up the inspiring work and I'll try from my neck of the woods. Regards, Espy, Melbourne, OZ
101
I'm wondering, would it be out of line for straight people to put up a video, showing that they love, care and support their gay friends/family?
102
@95 Phoebe Prince was apparently also a bully http://www.slate.com/id/2263470/
This points to the the complexity of dealing bullying; it isn't just a dichotomous phenomenon where there are only aggressors and victims.
Dan isn't trying to solve all bullying here he's trying to give gay teens hope.
Gay teens are at a far greater risk for suicide and it is completely appropriate for the focus of this project to be on them. If you are unhappy with the myriad of programs that focus on ending bullying and teen suicide I'd suggest you start your own project that has a more general focus.
This points to the the complexity of dealing bullying; it isn't just a dichotomous phenomenon where there are only aggressors and victims.
Dan isn't trying to solve all bullying here he's trying to give gay teens hope.
Gay teens are at a far greater risk for suicide and it is completely appropriate for the focus of this project to be on them. If you are unhappy with the myriad of programs that focus on ending bullying and teen suicide I'd suggest you start your own project that has a more general focus.
103
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12…
JOIN "WANK AGAINST CHRISTINE O'DONNELL" A project dedicated to masturbating against tea partier Christine O'Donnell.
JOIN "WANK AGAINST CHRISTINE O'DONNELL" A project dedicated to masturbating against tea partier Christine O'Donnell.
104
"My son is a loving and wonderful man, a great father for my grandson and even when his column feels "icky" to this old straight dude, I enjoy and appreciate what my son has accomplished."
Sir, you must deserve much of the credit for raising such a good one. Thanks very much for your comment.
Sir, you must deserve much of the credit for raising such a good one. Thanks very much for your comment.
105
@84 - dadfromaz thanks! your quote at the end of the post from "Desiderata" tells me what an amazing dad you are! i was fortunate enough to meet a woman 48 years ago who personified that quote not only toward her six kids but to all the stray kids each of her kids dragged home. i was one of the strays and i'm here today because of her!
106
Thanks alot Dan for the project you're doing, the awareness your spreading, and the hope you're giving, you're fucking awesome dude.
P.S. the video you and your husband did was wonderful and touching.
:)
P.S. the video you and your husband did was wonderful and touching.
:)
107
Dan, thank you for starting this project. As a closeted gay teenage male in Texas, you and your husband have brought me so much hope. One day, I will find the love of my life and start my family with my future husband.
You both rock, and Mr. Savage Sr., your post just made me cry out of joy. Thank you for raising Dan to be himself. If we had more parents like you, this world would be much better.
Love and rockets,
Matthieu
You both rock, and Mr. Savage Sr., your post just made me cry out of joy. Thank you for raising Dan to be himself. If we had more parents like you, this world would be much better.
Love and rockets,
Matthieu
108
Way to go, Dan. Thanks for launching It Gets Better. What a great idea. I've loved your columns for years, and I appreciate that you're using your influence to help these kids. Hope it works!
109
It sounds like the boyfriend is too lazy to get his girlfriend off so lets this guy do it and then moves in to get HIS rocks off. Also, playing a video game is a good indicator that the guy may be an adult but still fucks like a selfish teenage boy.
Dan is right not to "church it up" with a big word! It's just one awkward kid (video game boy) his girlfriend who needs to find a man to have an actual sexual relationship with and this clueless dude writing in who is being used as a vibrator.... Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...Maybe she ought to be with the guy who actually can stimulate her AND gives a damn enough to help her arrive at a pleasurable outcome.
How is their sex life WITHOUT the letter writer's involvement? There's the answer, right there.
Dan is right not to "church it up" with a big word! It's just one awkward kid (video game boy) his girlfriend who needs to find a man to have an actual sexual relationship with and this clueless dude writing in who is being used as a vibrator.... Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...Maybe she ought to be with the guy who actually can stimulate her AND gives a damn enough to help her arrive at a pleasurable outcome.
How is their sex life WITHOUT the letter writer's involvement? There's the answer, right there.
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